Now that Obama's Killed Osama

[xotoxi]

How is it obama is going to spin shooting an unarmed man?

Easy.

You just say the unarmed man was "OSAMA BIN LADEN" and people will understand.

 

[geauxtohell]

I think this thread is completely dishonest on the part of Frank's. Especially since he is making the assumption that UBL wasn't a threat despite being unarmed.

Also, he's ignoring the firefight that lasted over an hour I believe that got the Seals to the point where Bin Laden was. It's not as if the SEALS simply waltzed in there, plugged Bin Laden while he was going to the bathroom, and left.

Assumptions hell. Francis is claiming that this was an assassination mission and that the possibility of capture was never entertained.

But he's not crapping on the troops. No, sir!

 

[geauxtohell]

If he's reaching for a gun, wound him (there's not a single report that says he was (and since you're making stuff up, why not just say he was going to fire a howitzer at the SEAL team?)), but bring him in alive!

Yeah. "Shoot to wound" is common in military cultures.

How many times did I listen to you bitch about the ROE in previous years?

This is fucking hilarious.

 

[geauxtohell]

How is it obama is going to spin shooting an unarmed man?

Easy.

You just say the unarmed man was "OSAMA BIN LADEN" and people will understand.

9 years ago I never would have thought that we would be arguing over something so stupid.

 

[martybegan]

Assuming UBL actually stored his next attack on that computer, that's wonderful.

If he didn't, oopsies.

If he's really the Terrorist Mastermind he was supposed to be, why take a chance on letting his next plan die with him?

I'm less concerned about plans, and more concerned about who he was talking to. The real intel is his contact list. We get to see who he was talking to in what governments, and that is the real information we want. Some governments will give up alot of people/info to prevent that data from ever reaching the light of day.

Less concerned about the plans of the guy who was behind 9/11?

Do you want to reread what you wrote and mull it over a little?

If I were in the Intel Community, that's ALL I would care about -- what's he thinking about? What is he working on? That all died with him

Do you really think he was involved in the detailed planning of ANYTHING the way he was isolated, and the methods they needed to use to communicate with him?

His involvment was probably limited to "attack the US", leaving the actual plans to underlings, the people we actually want to capture, who's names are probably all over the documents we now posses.

You are also assuming he would talk, which is a very very big if.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I think this thread is completely dishonest on the part of Frank's. Especially since he is making the assumption that UBL wasn't a threat despite being unarmed.

Also, he's ignoring the firefight that lasted over an hour I believe that got the Seals to the point where Bin Laden was. It's not as if the SEALS simply waltzed in there, plugged Bin Laden while he was going to the bathroom, and left.

Assumptions hell. Francis is claiming that this was an assassination mission and that the possibility of capture was never entertained.

But he's not crapping on the troops. No, sir!

How does a SEAL team not capture an unarmed man, if their orders were to take him alive?

 

[Ravi]

They had to kill him. They know their entire policy of "jury trials" for terrorist is a sham. It would expose liberal hypocrisy for everyone to see. Killing him avoids all those questions.

Don't make me neg you.

I am still in afterglow .....so let's keep this party polite!!

Seriously though, it's a really sticky situation for Obama. The reasons for killing him rather than capturing him were strictly political and a "jury trial" is only one of the myriad problems that Obama would have faced. Imagine that long faced wretch getting face time on TV every day for 2 years while he lawyered up and went through the US court system?? Can you see the 24/7 news media foaming at the mouth? Imagine if they didn't give him a "jury trial" as Holder and Obama both insisted was "the right thing to do" for terrorists?? How would that effect his re-election prospects with his base? He'd have a lot of "splainin" to do!

Either way an 'alive' OBL is a loser for team Obama and for the American people. Normal Americans instinctively now that terrorists do not deserve "jury trials", Obama knows it too, that's why they killed the pig instead of captured him.

A live, on trial bin laden would have been a victory for bin laden. I am all for not giving him any more victories.

That said, I would have been perfectly happy if KSM was killed in the same manner instead of arrested and now facing trial.

But once you take someone into custody you must follow due process, imo.

I think the SEALS were given latitude to conduct the mission as they saw fit once they went into the compound and I believe they did the right thing.

 

[xotoxi]

But once you take someone into custody you must follow due process, imo.

Can you imagine the ruckus from the right if Osama Bin Laden had required due process?

Holy H. Fuck!

 

[Ravi]

But once you take someone into custody you must follow due process, imo.

Can you imagine the ruckus from the right if Osama Bin Laden had required due process?

Holy H. Fuck!

Yep....no matter what the outcome I am convinced that people like ClusterFrank would argue against it.

 

[xotoxi]

But once you take someone into custody you must follow due process, imo.

Can you imagine the ruckus from the right if Osama Bin Laden had required due process?

Holy H. Fuck!

Yep....no matter what the outcome I am convinced that people like ClusterFrank would argue against it.

Yep...and this issue shows 100% proof.

If you don't agree with Obama's decision to kill Osama, you are with the terrorists.

 

[geauxtohell]

I think this thread is completely dishonest on the part of Frank's. Especially since he is making the assumption that UBL wasn't a threat despite being unarmed.

Also, he's ignoring the firefight that lasted over an hour I believe that got the Seals to the point where Bin Laden was. It's not as if the SEALS simply waltzed in there, plugged Bin Laden while he was going to the bathroom, and left.

Assumptions hell. Francis is claiming that this was an assassination mission and that the possibility of capture was never entertained.

But he's not crapping on the troops. No, sir!

How does a SEAL team not capture an unarmed man, if their orders were to take him alive?

Their orders were to kill or capture.

I'll wager that you've never done CQB with a military unit, so maybe you are just fucking ignorant of how it works.

Here's a clue: You don't waste any time knocking on doors.

You also can't "order" a soldier to take a combatant alive. You can't order someone to put themselves in undo danger to capture someone alive as opposed to killing him.

This isn't fucking chess.

 

[HUGGY]

Can someone explain to me why is it the SEAL Team was under orders to execute the unarmed highest value source of Terrorist information on the planet? If, in fact UBL was unarmed as one of he several different version of the raid suggest, why kill him?

Also, would be at all appropriate for Obama to use footage from his Ground Zero "I Killed Osama" Victory Tour for his reelection campaign, (assuming he in fact does get the nomination)?

And finally, UBL is dead, now what? Is the GWOT, er I mean the Overseas Contingency Plan to attack people who perpetrate Manmade Disasters now over?

We are going to be drawing down in Afghanistan this summer. Getting rid of the boogy man works into that scenario.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm less concerned about plans, and more concerned about who he was talking to. The real intel is his contact list. We get to see who he was talking to in what governments, and that is the real information we want. Some governments will give up alot of people/info to prevent that data from ever reaching the light of day.

Less concerned about the plans of the guy who was behind 9/11?

Do you want to reread what you wrote and mull it over a little?

If I were in the Intel Community, that's ALL I would care about -- what's he thinking about? What is he working on? That all died with him

Do you really think he was involved in the detailed planning of ANYTHING the way he was isolated, and the methods they needed to use to communicate with him?

His involvment was probably limited to "attack the US", leaving the actual plans to underlings, the people we actually want to capture, who's names are probably all over the documents we now posses.

You are also assuming he would talk, which is a very very big if.

The Mastermind of 9/11 is limited to planning "Death to American", all else is details left to underlings.

Yeah, that sounds right.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Assumptions hell. Francis is claiming that this was an assassination mission and that the possibility of capture was never entertained.

But he's not crapping on the troops. No, sir!

How does a SEAL team not capture an unarmed man, if their orders were to take him alive?

Their orders were to kill or capture.

I'll wager that you've never done CQB with a military unit, so maybe you are just fucking ignorant of how it works.

Here's a clue: You don't waste any time knocking on doors.

You also can't "order" a soldier to take a combatant alive. You can't order someone to put themselves in undo danger to capture someone alive as opposed to killing him.

This isn't fucking chess.

Right, I was never in the military, that's the issue here. You're just too fucking smart for me

I believe you can give orders that he be taken alive, especially since he's

a. not a criminal on US soil but an enemy combatant and

b. the "mastermind" behind 9/11 and it would have been really swell to learn what else he was planning

 

[martybegan]

Less concerned about the plans of the guy who was behind 9/11?

Do you want to reread what you wrote and mull it over a little?

If I were in the Intel Community, that's ALL I would care about -- what's he thinking about? What is he working on? That all died with him

Do you really think he was involved in the detailed planning of ANYTHING the way he was isolated, and the methods they needed to use to communicate with him?

His involvment was probably limited to "attack the US", leaving the actual plans to underlings, the people we actually want to capture, who's names are probably all over the documents we now posses.

You are also assuming he would talk, which is a very very big if.

The Mastermind of 9/11 is limited to planning "Death to American", all else is details left to underlings.

Yeah, that sounds right.

That mastermind has either been hiding in a cave or a isolated compound since the attacks. before that he wasnt on the radar, and had far more access to people to allow for the planning.

At this point Osama was a symbol at most, and now he is a very wet and very dead symbol somewhere at the bottom of the arabian sea.

When he was alive he was a symbol of defiance against america, now he is a symbol of what eventually happens to those people.

 

[geauxtohell]

Right, I was never in the military, that's the issue here. You're just too fucking smart for me

No, the issue is you pretending to know something about a facet of life that you are painfully ignorant about.

For example, you seem to think that the President of the United States converted an elite military unit into a bunch of hitmen.

I believe you can give orders that he be taken alive, especially since he's

a. not a criminal on US soil but an enemy combatant and

b. the "mastermind" behind 9/11 and it would have been really swell to learn what else he was planning

You believe wrong. The president can not order any soldier to take a bullet in an attempt to capture someone alive.

Just as you can't prosecute someone for self defense.

The right to self preservation is inherent. It can't be taken away. It's the basis of the ROE, that I've watched you bitch about in the past (which you apparently know nothing about).

Other than that, my point is simply, if you understand CQB, it's not surprising that Bin Laden was killed. Even if he was unarmed.

That doesn't equate to illegality.

 

[geauxtohell]

Do you really think he was involved in the detailed planning of ANYTHING the way he was isolated, and the methods they needed to use to communicate with him?

His involvment was probably limited to "attack the US", leaving the actual plans to underlings, the people we actually want to capture, who's names are probably all over the documents we now posses.

You are also assuming he would talk, which is a very very big if.

The Mastermind of 9/11 is limited to planning "Death to American", all else is details left to underlings.

Yeah, that sounds right.

That mastermind has either been hiding in a cave or a isolated compound since the attacks. before that he wasnt on the radar, and had far more access to people to allow for the planning.

At this point Osama was a symbol at most, and now he is a very wet and very dead symbol somewhere at the bottom of the arabian sea.

When he was alive he was a symbol of defiance against america, now he is a symbol of what eventually happens to those people.

And that is the point that some people on the right just don't get.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So wait, if bin Laden's been marginalized and hiding in a cave and just giving "Death to America" orders, Bush was right not caring about where he was, right?

 

[geauxtohell]

So wait, if bin Laden's been marginalized and hiding in a cave and just giving "Death to America" orders, Bush was right not caring about where he was, right?

Stop being lame.

This was about justice as much as anything.

Would Bush have let Bin Laden go if he apologized for 9/11 and moved into a beach house in Jamaica?

Bush "wasn't worried" about where Bin Laden was, because Bush wasn't able to find Bin Laden and it made him look like an ass.

Still does.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So wait, if bin Laden's been marginalized and hiding in a cave and just giving "Death to America" orders, Bush was right not caring about where he was, right?

Stop being lame.

This was about justice as much as anything.

Would Bush have let Bin Laden go if he apologized for 9/11 and moved into a beach house in Jamaica?

Bush "wasn't worried" about where Bin Laden was, because Bush wasn't able to find Bin Laden and it made him look like an ass.

Still does.

Uh huh.

Sure.

Fairly obvious this thread will grind to a close because you've been harpooned by your own senseless logic.