Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

[flacaltenn]

You have proven nothing about Israel being a religious State.

Their government being interwined with the Jewish religious institution shows they are not a secular state. No other proof is required, that is conclusive.

Since I had to read thru these posts in order to keep topics clean, I just had to comment on this misconception of Israel not being a "secular" state. There are basic facts that need to be on table. Secular has too many political implications to just be the OPPOSITE of a theocracy. And while Israel is deeply rooted in Jewish religious beliefs and tradition, it maintains little AUTHORITY to exclude other practices. A very UNIQUE situation for that corner of the world.
They do the "tolerance/inclusion" thingy FAR BETTER than we do in the USA...

First, the identification of Jews as a PEOPLE is much stronger throughout the entire world than as a religion. Even in the USA, Judaism is split into 3 factions that don't really honor each other with equal "religious validity".. Those splits HERE are between the Orthodox, Conservative and Reform movements and span the entire spectrum from total religious authority to relatively complete secularism..

This is similar to the ways the Kurds and Yazidis ATTEMPT to associate "as a people" in the neighboring Arab countries but with a higher degree of difficulty, bias and govt suppression..

Secondly the CITIZENS of Israel include an almost 18% Arab Muslim portion, many of whom serve in the IDF and at my last count, occupied about 8 to 11% of the seats in the Knesset... This does NOT COUNT the Palestinian population in the West Bank or Gaza..

Secularism in Israel - Wikipedia

The Jewish population of Israel can be divided into three groups: Orthodox, Traditional, and Secular. Secular Jews make up 41.4% of the Jewish population, followed by the Traditional Jews accounting for 38.5% of the population, with the remaining 20% populated by the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox. In Israel, the Reform and Conservative movements are estimated to make up 7.6% of the Jewish population,[10] a significantly lower rate compared to the Jewish diaspora.

Israel legally recognizes thirteen non-Jewish religious communities, each of which practice their own religious family law. The largest religious minority population is the Muslim community of Israel, and it amounts to 17.3% of the overall population.[22] The Muslim communities live mostly in the northern part of the country. The Orthodox Jewish and the Orthodox Muslim population have the highest population growth of all communities in Israel.[23]They are free under the law to vote, practice religion, be members of the Israeli parliament, and can use the same Israeli education system as the rest of the country, although the education system is de facto mostly bifurcated into Jewish and non-Jewish schools (see Education in Israel). Many Arabs are a part of the Israeli government and politics.[24] Almost one 10th of the parliament are Arab, and there is a mosque in the parliament building (Knesset) for those who are Muslim. A Supreme Court justice and a minister of the Israeli cabinet are also Arab Muslims. Muslims, as well as most other religious minorities, are not required to serve in the army.

The next-largest minority population is the Christian population (2%), some of whom live with Jewish communities.[6] Rather than have their own education and medical institutions, they have integrated into state institutions. The Christian population in Israel is the only Christian population in the Middle East that has grown in the last half century. Christians choose to live in Israel because they have freedom of speech and the freedom to practice religion.[25]

How Religious are Israeli Jews?

All this makes Israel the MOST secular nation in the Middle East and FAR from any threat of being a theocracy in the mold of MOST of it's Arab neighbors..

It's a place where gay people can live openly and celebrate in parades. FAR more "inclusive" in that regard than MOST places in the world including OUR COUNTRY...

 

[Sixties Fan]

An official Guardian editorial (The Guardian view on the Israeli elections: Netanyahu debases his office – again, March 11) included the following accusation:

"Israel is not a state of all its citizens, Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu declared on Sunday. His words should be shocking, but in truth they made explicit the message of last year’s nation state law, rendering Palestinians in Israel second-class citizens."

This is completely untrue.

The Jewish Nation-State Law merely codifies, within the country’s Basic Law (a de facto constitution), Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people – a principle which is the core of Zionism. It also lists a number of manifestations of Israel’s status as a Jewish state, including the country’s flag, national anthem, calendar, language, and immigration policies.

As even the head of the left-wing Israeli Democracy Institute conceded, the impact of the law is “largely symbolic”.

Though some have criticised the law because it didn’t also affirm the equal rights of non-Jewish citizens, the protection of individual rights is already covered in the Basic Law on “Human Dignity and Freedom“, which, as constitutional law expert Eugene Kontorovich observed, the Israeli Supreme Court interprets as guaranteeing equality.

Kontorovich also explained that the law’s declaration of Israel as a uniquely Jewish state is not inconsistent with liberal democratic constitutions of Europe.

The Latvian Constitution declares the “unwavering will of the Latvian nation to have its own State and its inalienable right of self-determination in order to guarantee the existence and development of the Latvian nation, its language and culture throughout the centuries.” Latvia’s population is about 25% ethnically and linguistically Russian. And, the Slovak Constitution opens with the words, “We the Slovak nation,” possess “the natural right of nations to self-determination.”

(full article online)

Guardian lies in accusation that Israeli law codifies racism

 

[Mindful]

An official Guardian editorial (The Guardian view on the Israeli elections: Netanyahu debases his office – again, March 11) included the following accusation:

"Israel is not a state of all its citizens, Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu declared on Sunday. His words should be shocking, but in truth they made explicit the message of last year’s nation state law, rendering Palestinians in Israel second-class citizens."

This is completely untrue.

The Jewish Nation-State Law merely codifies, within the country’s Basic Law (a de facto constitution), Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people – a principle which is the core of Zionism. It also lists a number of manifestations of Israel’s status as a Jewish state, including the country’s flag, national anthem, calendar, language, and immigration policies.

As even the head of the left-wing Israeli Democracy Institute conceded, the impact of the law is “largely symbolic”.

Though some have criticised the law because it didn’t also affirm the equal rights of non-Jewish citizens, the protection of individual rights is already covered in the Basic Law on “Human Dignity and Freedom“, which, as constitutional law expert Eugene Kontorovich observed, the Israeli Supreme Court interprets as guaranteeing equality.

Kontorovich also explained that the law’s declaration of Israel as a uniquely Jewish state is not inconsistent with liberal democratic constitutions of Europe.

The Latvian Constitution declares the “unwavering will of the Latvian nation to have its own State and its inalienable right of self-determination in order to guarantee the existence and development of the Latvian nation, its language and culture throughout the centuries.” Latvia’s population is about 25% ethnically and linguistically Russian. And, the Slovak Constitution opens with the words, “We the Slovak nation,” possess “the natural right of nations to self-determination.”

(full article online)

Guardian lies in accusation that Israeli law codifies racism

The Guardian has become a rag.

 

[rylah]

You have proven nothing about Israel being a religious State.

Their government being interwined with the Jewish religious institution shows they are not a secular state. No other proof is required, that is conclusive.

Since I had to read thru these posts in order to keep topics clean, I just had to comment on this misconception of Israel not being a "secular" state. There are basic facts that need to be on table. Secular has too many political implications to just be the OPPOSITE of a theocracy. And while Israel is deeply rooted in Jewish religious beliefs and tradition, it maintains little AUTHORITY to exclude other practices. A very UNIQUE situation for that corner of the world.
They do the "tolerance/inclusion" thingy FAR BETTER than we do in the USA...

First, the identification of Jews as a PEOPLE is much stronger throughout the entire world than as a religion. Even in the USA, Judaism is split into 3 factions that don't really honor each other with equal "religious validity".. Those splits HERE are between the Orthodox, Conservative and Reform movements and span the entire spectrum from total religious authority to relatively complete secularism..

This is similar to the ways the Kurds and Yazidis ATTEMPT to associate "as a people" in the neighboring Arab countries but with a higher degree of difficulty, bias and govt suppression..

Secondly the CITIZENS of Israel include an almost 18% Arab Muslim portion, many of whom serve in the IDF and at my last count, occupied about 8 to 11% of the seats in the Knesset... This does NOT COUNT the Palestinian population in the West Bank or Gaza..

Secularism in Israel - Wikipedia

The Jewish population of Israel can be divided into three groups: Orthodox, Traditional, and Secular. Secular Jews make up 41.4% of the Jewish population, followed by the Traditional Jews accounting for 38.5% of the population, with the remaining 20% populated by the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox. In Israel, the Reform and Conservative movements are estimated to make up 7.6% of the Jewish population,[10] a significantly lower rate compared to the Jewish diaspora.

Israel legally recognizes thirteen non-Jewish religious communities, each of which practice their own religious family law. The largest religious minority population is the Muslim community of Israel, and it amounts to 17.3% of the overall population.[22] The Muslim communities live mostly in the northern part of the country. The Orthodox Jewish and the Orthodox Muslim population have the highest population growth of all communities in Israel.[23]They are free under the law to vote, practice religion, be members of the Israeli parliament, and can use the same Israeli education system as the rest of the country, although the education system is de facto mostly bifurcated into Jewish and non-Jewish schools (see Education in Israel). Many Arabs are a part of the Israeli government and politics.[24] Almost one 10th of the parliament are Arab, and there is a mosque in the parliament building (Knesset) for those who are Muslim. A Supreme Court justice and a minister of the Israeli cabinet are also Arab Muslims. Muslims, as well as most other religious minorities, are not required to serve in the army.

The next-largest minority population is the Christian population (2%), some of whom live with Jewish communities.[6] Rather than have their own education and medical institutions, they have integrated into state institutions. The Christian population in Israel is the only Christian population in the Middle East that has grown in the last half century. Christians choose to live in Israel because they have freedom of speech and the freedom to practice religion.[25]

How Religious are Israeli Jews?

All this makes Israel the MOST secular nation in the Middle East and FAR from any threat of being a theocracy in the mold of MOST of it's Arab neighbors..

It's a place where gay people can live openly and celebrate in parades. FAR more "inclusive" in that regard than MOST places in the world including OUR COUNTRY...

Thank You for the American perspective.
In my, Israeli perspective, this thing about conservative, reform and orthodox is not as clear as in the US.
Reform movement in Israel is a recent phenomena, prior to that it was a small unknown club, there was no friction or public awareness. All those terms are new, and not fit to describe the Haredi, Masorti and Hiloni difference and commonality. Vast majority of hiloni are actually masorti, in diaspora terms, and a great portion of masorit and haredi youth are one and the same with the only difference in the kind of kippa we wear.
All our great great great great fathers were bearded Jews, deeply religious and Zionist to the core in its most original meaning - all were involved in supporting the Jewish community in Israel.

That said, "religious" communities vote for "secular" parties, not because it's a masorti, haredi or reform state, but because it's a Jewish state, rather a tribal perspective than religious.

 

[flacaltenn]

You have proven nothing about Israel being a religious State.

Their government being interwined with the Jewish religious institution shows they are not a secular state. No other proof is required, that is conclusive.

Since I had to read thru these posts in order to keep topics clean, I just had to comment on this misconception of Israel not being a "secular" state. There are basic facts that need to be on table. Secular has too many political implications to just be the OPPOSITE of a theocracy. And while Israel is deeply rooted in Jewish religious beliefs and tradition, it maintains little AUTHORITY to exclude other practices. A very UNIQUE situation for that corner of the world.
They do the "tolerance/inclusion" thingy FAR BETTER than we do in the USA...

First, the identification of Jews as a PEOPLE is much stronger throughout the entire world than as a religion. Even in the USA, Judaism is split into 3 factions that don't really honor each other with equal "religious validity".. Those splits HERE are between the Orthodox, Conservative and Reform movements and span the entire spectrum from total religious authority to relatively complete secularism..

This is similar to the ways the Kurds and Yazidis ATTEMPT to associate "as a people" in the neighboring Arab countries but with a higher degree of difficulty, bias and govt suppression..

Secondly the CITIZENS of Israel include an almost 18% Arab Muslim portion, many of whom serve in the IDF and at my last count, occupied about 8 to 11% of the seats in the Knesset... This does NOT COUNT the Palestinian population in the West Bank or Gaza..

Secularism in Israel - Wikipedia

The Jewish population of Israel can be divided into three groups: Orthodox, Traditional, and Secular. Secular Jews make up 41.4% of the Jewish population, followed by the Traditional Jews accounting for 38.5% of the population, with the remaining 20% populated by the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox. In Israel, the Reform and Conservative movements are estimated to make up 7.6% of the Jewish population,[10] a significantly lower rate compared to the Jewish diaspora.

Israel legally recognizes thirteen non-Jewish religious communities, each of which practice their own religious family law. The largest religious minority population is the Muslim community of Israel, and it amounts to 17.3% of the overall population.[22] The Muslim communities live mostly in the northern part of the country. The Orthodox Jewish and the Orthodox Muslim population have the highest population growth of all communities in Israel.[23]They are free under the law to vote, practice religion, be members of the Israeli parliament, and can use the same Israeli education system as the rest of the country, although the education system is de facto mostly bifurcated into Jewish and non-Jewish schools (see Education in Israel). Many Arabs are a part of the Israeli government and politics.[24] Almost one 10th of the parliament are Arab, and there is a mosque in the parliament building (Knesset) for those who are Muslim. A Supreme Court justice and a minister of the Israeli cabinet are also Arab Muslims. Muslims, as well as most other religious minorities, are not required to serve in the army.

The next-largest minority population is the Christian population (2%), some of whom live with Jewish communities.[6] Rather than have their own education and medical institutions, they have integrated into state institutions. The Christian population in Israel is the only Christian population in the Middle East that has grown in the last half century. Christians choose to live in Israel because they have freedom of speech and the freedom to practice religion.[25]

How Religious are Israeli Jews?

All this makes Israel the MOST secular nation in the Middle East and FAR from any threat of being a theocracy in the mold of MOST of it's Arab neighbors..

It's a place where gay people can live openly and celebrate in parades. FAR more "inclusive" in that regard than MOST places in the world including OUR COUNTRY...

Thank You for the American perspective.
In my, Israeli perspective, this thing about conservative, reform and orthodox is not as clear as in the US.
Reform movement in Israel is a recent phenomena, prior to that it was a small unknown club, there was no friction or public awareness. All those terms are new, and not fit to describe the Haredi, Masorti and Hiloni difference and commonality. Vast majority of hiloni are actually masorti, in diaspora terms, and a great portion of masorit and haredi youth are one and the same with the only difference in the kind of kippa we wear.
All our great great great great fathers were bearded Jews, deeply religious and Zionist to the core in its most original meaning - all were involved in supporting the Jewish community in Israel.

That said, "religious" communities vote for "secular" parties, not because it's a masorti, haredi or reform state, but because it's a Jewish state, rather a tribal perspective than religious.

I like the "tribal" part. Part of the issue in America has been the friction between Reform, Conservative, Orthodox.. I grew up in a beach town with only about 80 Jewish families.. Split between a Reform and Conservative schul.. I led a REVOLT as a 17 yr old to ALLOW the 2 separate "youth groups" to have JOINT functions. It seemed ridiculous to maintain "segregation" of the youth... LOL.... That might be changing with newer generations. Don't know.

I understand the exactness of using the proper terms for classifying "observance" and tradition in Israel. But American gentiles just glaze over and freeze when you do not associate religiousity with a "denomination"... LOL....

Because that association as "a people" is so strong in Israel, there is no clear threat of POLITICIZING the religious differences.. And that's the point I wanted to make as it applies to how "secular" Israel is.. Politics is naturally in another realm from religious identity in Israel.. The bond is tradition and history, not different flavors of observance. Like the Wiki says, many of the Russian asylum seekers have a "sketchy" Jewish pedigree according to religious law.. But --- it really did not matter -- did it??

 

[rylah]

You have proven nothing about Israel being a religious State.

Their government being interwined with the Jewish religious institution shows they are not a secular state. No other proof is required, that is conclusive.

Since I had to read thru these posts in order to keep topics clean, I just had to comment on this misconception of Israel not being a "secular" state. There are basic facts that need to be on table. Secular has too many political implications to just be the OPPOSITE of a theocracy. And while Israel is deeply rooted in Jewish religious beliefs and tradition, it maintains little AUTHORITY to exclude other practices. A very UNIQUE situation for that corner of the world.
They do the "tolerance/inclusion" thingy FAR BETTER than we do in the USA...

First, the identification of Jews as a PEOPLE is much stronger throughout the entire world than as a religion. Even in the USA, Judaism is split into 3 factions that don't really honor each other with equal "religious validity".. Those splits HERE are between the Orthodox, Conservative and Reform movements and span the entire spectrum from total religious authority to relatively complete secularism..

This is similar to the ways the Kurds and Yazidis ATTEMPT to associate "as a people" in the neighboring Arab countries but with a higher degree of difficulty, bias and govt suppression..

Secondly the CITIZENS of Israel include an almost 18% Arab Muslim portion, many of whom serve in the IDF and at my last count, occupied about 8 to 11% of the seats in the Knesset... This does NOT COUNT the Palestinian population in the West Bank or Gaza..

Secularism in Israel - Wikipedia

The Jewish population of Israel can be divided into three groups: Orthodox, Traditional, and Secular. Secular Jews make up 41.4% of the Jewish population, followed by the Traditional Jews accounting for 38.5% of the population, with the remaining 20% populated by the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox. In Israel, the Reform and Conservative movements are estimated to make up 7.6% of the Jewish population,[10] a significantly lower rate compared to the Jewish diaspora.

Israel legally recognizes thirteen non-Jewish religious communities, each of which practice their own religious family law. The largest religious minority population is the Muslim community of Israel, and it amounts to 17.3% of the overall population.[22] The Muslim communities live mostly in the northern part of the country. The Orthodox Jewish and the Orthodox Muslim population have the highest population growth of all communities in Israel.[23]They are free under the law to vote, practice religion, be members of the Israeli parliament, and can use the same Israeli education system as the rest of the country, although the education system is de facto mostly bifurcated into Jewish and non-Jewish schools (see Education in Israel). Many Arabs are a part of the Israeli government and politics.[24] Almost one 10th of the parliament are Arab, and there is a mosque in the parliament building (Knesset) for those who are Muslim. A Supreme Court justice and a minister of the Israeli cabinet are also Arab Muslims. Muslims, as well as most other religious minorities, are not required to serve in the army.

The next-largest minority population is the Christian population (2%), some of whom live with Jewish communities.[6] Rather than have their own education and medical institutions, they have integrated into state institutions. The Christian population in Israel is the only Christian population in the Middle East that has grown in the last half century. Christians choose to live in Israel because they have freedom of speech and the freedom to practice religion.[25]

How Religious are Israeli Jews?

All this makes Israel the MOST secular nation in the Middle East and FAR from any threat of being a theocracy in the mold of MOST of it's Arab neighbors..

It's a place where gay people can live openly and celebrate in parades. FAR more "inclusive" in that regard than MOST places in the world including OUR COUNTRY...

Thank You for the American perspective.
In my, Israeli perspective, this thing about conservative, reform and orthodox is not as clear as in the US.
Reform movement in Israel is a recent phenomena, prior to that it was a small unknown club, there was no friction or public awareness. All those terms are new, and not fit to describe the Haredi, Masorti and Hiloni difference and commonality. Vast majority of hiloni are actually masorti, in diaspora terms, and a great portion of masorit and haredi youth are one and the same with the only difference in the kind of kippa we wear.
All our great great great great fathers were bearded Jews, deeply religious and Zionist to the core in its most original meaning - all were involved in supporting the Jewish community in Israel.

That said, "religious" communities vote for "secular" parties, not because it's a masorti, haredi or reform state, but because it's a Jewish state, rather a tribal perspective than religious.

I like the "tribal" part. Part of the issue in America has been the friction between Reform, Conservative, Orthodox.. I grew up in a beach town with only about 80 Jewish families.. Split between a Reform and Conservative schul.. I led a REVOLT as a 17 yr old to ALLOW the 2 separate "youth groups" to have JOINT functions. It seemed ridiculous to maintain "segregation" of the youth... LOL.... That might be changing with newer generations. Don't know.

I understand the exactness of using the proper terms for classifying "observance" and tradition in Israel. But American gentiles just glaze over and freeze when you do not associate religiousity with a "denomination"... LOL....

Because that association as "a people" is so strong in Israel, there is no clear threat of POLITICIZING the religious differences.. And that's the point I wanted to make as it applies to how "secular" Israel is.. Politics is naturally in another realm from religious identity in Israel.. The bond is tradition and history, not different flavors of observance. Like the Wiki says, many of the Russian asylum seekers have a "sketchy" Jewish pedigree according to religious law.. But --- it really did not matter -- did it??

Your rebellion sounds like the most common opinion in Israel,
all Jews should enjoy both their heritage and the Israeli revival of fulfilling the mitzvah of inheritance of the land.

In Israel, You'll see a huge number of Middle eastern Jews taking the road of the hardcore intellectual Ashkenazi approach, and being the majority of Hassidim who visit the tombs of the great sages in Ukraine, while Jews from former USSR and Caucasus feeling very comfortable in Sephardic synagogues.

We just say it's tribes, one studies, the other moves boats, another rules, and the other is the priests. It's the coolest vibrant culture in the world, the 60's gurus would not even dream of such a perfect groove

 

[rylah]

I remember reading a Jung book, where he compared western cultures
and cultures of the distant tribes he visited. Of course in his own unique manner of building a map of each culture's archetypal symbolism of the collective unconscious.

Specifically he mentioned a tiny relatively isolated Native American tribe, that was attached to a mountain.
This tribe lived under the mountain and believed it was their duty to make sure, participate each day in the moving of the sun from one end of the sky to the other for the wellbeing of the whole world. Their mere dwelling under that mountain fulfilled their mission

It was not about sacrificing people, or religion, but a tiny community with a deep tribal culture.
So do Jews are a people of a book and a mountain, we don't try to convert anyone or spread to other continents..
Our mountain eventually brings peace to the entire humanity and welcomes every nation to build it together with the tribe, to experience the greatest "nirvana" there can possibly be, of all uniting knowledge of the Creator that moves the same sun and moon in a much more holistic manner.

The world peace is a much Jewish Messianic idea, and there're certain tribes involved in the story, with their symbolic mission in the world, much more holistic and deep than the borders of religion.

On the other hand, with all that said, if we want to be sincere with ourselves, democratic system with its rituals, can be viewed as deeply religious in the most basic sense.
American politics and symbolism is very religious.

Here are Your "priests" so to speak...with Your own mountain.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Nation-State Law under attack | Abu Yehuda