November 29, 1947: War, Ethnic Cleaning Unleashed

[Toddsterpatriot]

It says land held by Israel. That was not owned by Israel. That land is still inside Palestine's borders.

And besides Jewish Virtual Library is not an unbiased source.

Remember that old saying about possession is 9/10s of the law......

Israel owns it and your terrorist buddies can' t have it back.
Even if they shoot rockets at Israeli school buses.

International law.

It is inadmissible to acquire land through the threat or use of force.

Israel is a foreign, military occupation of Palestine. It sits inside Palestine's borders with no borders of its own.

Who did they use force against? When? Be specific.

There is no country of Palestine, how can it have borders?

 

[JStone]

All that and still no map.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/4475869-post34.html

 

[JStone]

Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
International law.

It is inadmissible to acquire land through the threat or use of force.

You're pretending to be an international lawyer?

There is no rule in international law prohibiting the seizure of land in a defensive war.

Open a law book, Scout

 

[P F Tinmore]

Remember that old saying about possession is 9/10s of the law......

Israel owns it and your terrorist buddies can' t have it back.
Even if they shoot rockets at Israeli school buses.

International law.

It is inadmissible to acquire land through the threat or use of force.

Israel is a foreign, military occupation of Palestine. It sits inside Palestine's borders with no borders of its own.

Who did they use force against? When? Be specific.

There is no country of Palestine, how can it have borders?

Read the OP or any other source of history.

The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JStone]

International law.

It is inadmissible to acquire land through the threat or use of force.

Israel is a foreign, military occupation of Palestine. It sits inside Palestine's borders with no borders of its own.

Who did they use force against? When? Be specific.

There is no country of Palestine, how can it have borders?

Read the OP or any other source of history.

The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Palestine is Israel, Scout. The Romans just renamed Israel "Palestina"

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University ...

The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea. The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.
Augustine and the Jews: A Christian ... - Paula Fredriksen - Google Books

Israel appears in the Bible 2000+ times. Palestine, not once.

Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

Samuel 13:1: Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty two years

Jesus was King of Israel, not "Palestine"

Jesus Christ, King of Israel ...

John 12:12-13 The next day the great crowd that had come for the Feast heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. They took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."

Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel John 12 Commentary - Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel - BibleGateway.com

Passover was one of the three feasts that Jews were supposed to attend in Jerusalem, and consequently the population of Jerusalem swelled enormously at this time. As this great crowd is beginning to gather from around Israel and the larger world of the diaspora, news about Jesus is spreading, and people are wondering whether he will come to the feast. On Sunday, the day after the party in Bethany at which Mary anointed Jesus, news arrives that Jesus is on his way to Jerusalem, and a crowd of pilgrims, presumably those who had been wondering if he would come, goes out to meet him. Mary's private expression of emotion is now matched by the crowd's public outpouring of enthusiasm.
They shout Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!. These are lines from one of the Psalms of Ascents sung as a welcome to pilgrims coming up to Jerusalem. As such, this is an entirely appropriate thing to do as Jesus is coming up to Jerusalem. The cry of Hosanna! is a Hebrew word (hoshi`ah-na) that had become a greeting or shout of praise but that actually meant "Save!" or "Help!". The cry of Hosanna! and the palm branches are in themselves somewhat ambiguous, but their import is made clear as the crowd adds a further line, Blessed is the King of Israel! (v. 13). Clearly they see in Jesus the answer to their nationalistic, messianic hopes. Earlier a crowd had wanted to make Jesus king (6:15), and now this crowd is recognizing him as king in the city of the great King. Here is the great dream of a Davidic ruler who would come and liberate Israel, establishing peace and subduing the Gentiles (cf. Psalms of Solomon 17:21-25).

John the Baptist's witness to Israel (1:31) finds its initial response in the confession of Nathanael, a true Israelite (1:47), when Nathanael confesses Jesus to be the Son of God, the King of Israel (1:49). Nathanael stands in marked contrast to Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel (3:10), who is unable to understand earthly things, let alone heavenly things. So the first three chapters are characterized by a concern with the initial witness to Israel, and this motif now finds its fullness in this crowd's acclamation of Jesus as the King of Israel. Jesus is indeed King of Israel, and this motif now comes to the fore as the story nears its end His kingdom, however, far transcends Israel's boundaries. "What honor was it to the Lord to be King of Israel? What great thing was it to the King of eternity to become the King of men?".

The crowd is probably not aware that the line they have added to the acclamation is an echo of another passage that further contributes to the depth of revelation concerning Jesus in this story: "The Lord, the King of Israel, is with you; never again will you fear any harm"

.

 

[JStone]

Arabs Launched War Against Israel In 1948 And Vowed Ethnic Cleansing of Jews.


Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of Three Books on the History of Jerusalem ...

On 15 May, 1948 six Arab armies, those of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, invaded Israel. They advanced rapidly, threatening to destroy the one-day old State and drive its citizens into the sea. The Israelis resisted and after ten days were able to counter-attack

Yale University Press...

Sir Martin Gilbert is the author of more than eighty books, including the six-volume authorized biography of Winston Churchill, the twin histories First World War and Second World War, Israel: A History, The Holocaust, A History of the Twentieth Century in three volumes, and nine pioneering historical atlases, including Atlas of Jewish History and Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. In 1995, he was knighted for services to British history and international relations, and in 2009 he was appointed to the British Government’s Iraq War Inquiry. He lives in London.

In Ishmael's House - Gilbert, Martin - Yale University Press

Nonie Darwish, Author and Human Rights Activist Her father, Colonel Mustafa Hafez, was a senior intelligence officer in the Egyptian army during the '48 war.

My father came from a large middle-class Egyptian family. born in 1920, he fought against the new state of Israel in the War of 1948 when the Jewish state was first established. Arab countries from all sides invaded Israel to "drive it into the sea" That did not happen.
Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I ... - Nonie Darwish - Google Books

Lebanese American Fouad Ajami, Professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. He is co-chair of the Hoover Working Group on Islamism and the International Order.The Wall Street Journal, June 1, 2011

The [UN] vote in 1947 was viewed as Israel's basic title to independence and] statehood. The Palestinians and the Arab powers had rejected partition and chosen the path of war. Their choice was to prove calamitous.

By the time the guns had fallen silent, the Yishuv, the Jewish community in Palestine, had held its ground against the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. Its forces stood on the shores of the Red Sea in the south, and at the foot of the Golan Heights in the north. Palestinian society had collapsed under the pressure of war. The elites had made their way to neighboring lands. Rural communities had been left atomized and leaderless. The cities had fought, and fallen, alone. '"

Palestine had become a great Arab shame. Few Arabs were willing to tell the story truthfully, to face its harsh verdict. Henceforth the Palestinians would live on a vague idea of restoration and return. No leader had the courage to tell the refugees who had left Acre and Jaffa and Haifa that they could not recover the homes and orchards of their imagination.

Some had taken the keys to their houses with them to Syria and Lebanon and across the river to Jordan. They were no more likely to find political satisfaction than the Jews who had been banished from Baghdad and Beirut and Cairo, and Casablanca and Fez, but the idea of return, enshrined into a "right of return," would persist. (Wadi Abu Jamil, the Jewish quarter of the Beirut of my boyhood, is now a Hezbollah stronghold, and no narrative exalts or recalls that old presence.)
Fouad Ajami: The U.N. Can't Deliver a Palestinian State - WSJ.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

Arabs Launched War Against Israel In 1948 And Vowed Ethnic Cleansing of Jews.

That was long after the Zionists attacked the Palestinians.

 

[JStone]

Arabs Launched War Against Israel In 1948 And Vowed Ethnic Cleansing of Jews.

That was long after the Zionists attacked the Palestinians.

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of Three Books on the History of Jerusalem ...

On 15 May, 1948 six Arab armies, those of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, invaded Israel. They advanced rapidly, threatening to destroy the one-day old State and drive its citizens into the sea. The Israelis resisted and after ten days were able to counter-attack

Yale University Press...

Sir Martin Gilbert is the author of more than eighty books, including the six-volume authorized biography of Winston Churchill, the twin histories First World War and Second World War, Israel: A History, The Holocaust, A History of the Twentieth Century in three volumes, and nine pioneering historical atlases, including Atlas of Jewish History and Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. In 1995, he was knighted for services to British history and international relations, and in 2009 he was appointed to the British Government’s Iraq War Inquiry. He lives in London.

In Ishmael's House - Gilbert, Martin - Yale University Press

Nonie Darwish, Author and Human Rights Activist Her father, Colonel Mustafa Hafez, was a senior intelligence officer in the Egyptian army during the '48 war.

My father came from a large middle-class Egyptian family. born in 1920, he fought against the new state of Israel in the War of 1948 when the Jewish state was first established. Arab countries from all sides invaded Israel to "drive it into the sea" That did not happen.
Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I ... - Nonie Darwish - Google Books

Lebanese American Fouad Ajami, Professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. He is co-chair of the Hoover Working Group on Islamism and the International Order.The Wall Street Journal, June 1, 2011

The [UN] vote in 1947 was viewed as Israel's basic title to independence and] statehood. The Palestinians and the Arab powers had rejected partition and chosen the path of war. Their choice was to prove calamitous.

By the time the guns had fallen silent, the Yishuv, the Jewish community in Palestine, had held its ground against the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. Its forces stood on the shores of the Red Sea in the south, and at the foot of the Golan Heights in the north. Palestinian society had collapsed under the pressure of war. The elites had made their way to neighboring lands. Rural communities had been left atomized and leaderless. The cities had fought, and fallen, alone. '"

Palestine had become a great Arab shame. Few Arabs were willing to tell the story truthfully, to face its harsh verdict. Henceforth the Palestinians would live on a vague idea of restoration and return. No leader had the courage to tell the refugees who had left Acre and Jaffa and Haifa that they could not recover the homes and orchards of their imagination.

Some had taken the keys to their houses with them to Syria and Lebanon and across the river to Jordan. They were no more likely to find political satisfaction than the Jews who had been banished from Baghdad and Beirut and Cairo, and Casablanca and Fez, but the idea of return, enshrined into a "right of return," would persist. (Wadi Abu Jamil, the Jewish quarter of the Beirut of my boyhood, is now a Hezbollah stronghold, and no narrative exalts or recalls that old presence.)
Fouad Ajami: The U.N. Can't Deliver a Palestinian State - WSJ.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

Are you saying that the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?

 

[JStone]

Are you saying that the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?

Fakestinians, Scout.

Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen ...

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi, Italian Muslim Assembly ...

I believe that "Palestinian identity" is something completely artificial: it was forged as a propagandistic tool against Israel. The strange fact is that, at least here in Europe, I have never heard an Arab from the Land of Israel ("Palestine") say: "I am Palestinian."

Please remember that the so-called hero of "Palestinian independence," the pro-Nazi Grand Mufti of British Mandate Palestine, Haj Amin al-Husseini, never claimed that "Palestinians" are to be an independent people: all of his official declarations state that "Palestine must be recognized as a integral part of Syria."
ISRAEL SHOULD DECLARE OSLO NULL AND VOID (Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi August, 1998

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, University of Paris

No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries--Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq--attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | dreuz.info

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsJjm5K07V0]Who are the Palestinians? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JStone]

Are you saying that the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?

Jesus Christ, the Jewish Rabbi from Israel who taught the Torah, was a "Palestinian," right, Scout?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWLyVU0Otlk]Arafat said Jesus was a Palestinian. Palestinian author and TV host agree. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JStone]

Arabs went to war with Israel in an attempt to ethnically cleanse the Jews.

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of Three Books on the History of Jerusalem ...

On 15 May, 1948 six Arab armies, those of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, invaded Israel. They advanced rapidly, threatening to destroy the one-day old State and drive its citizens into the sea. The Israelis resisted and after ten days were able to counter-attack

Yale University Press...

Sir Martin Gilbert is the author of more than eighty books, including the six-volume authorized biography of Winston Churchill, the twin histories First World War and Second World War, Israel: A History, The Holocaust, A History of the Twentieth Century in three volumes, and nine pioneering historical atlases, including Atlas of Jewish History and Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. In 1995, he was knighted for services to British history and international relations, and in 2009 he was appointed to the British Government’s Iraq War Inquiry. He lives in London.

In Ishmael's House - Gilbert, Martin - Yale University Press

Nonie Darwish, Author and Human Rights Activist Her father, Colonel Mustafa Hafez, was a senior intelligence officer in the Egyptian army during the '48 war.

My father came from a large middle-class Egyptian family. born in 1920, he fought against the new state of Israel in the War of 1948 when the Jewish state was first established. Arab countries from all sides invaded Israel to "drive it into the sea" That did not happen.
Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I ... - Nonie Darwish - Google Books

Lebanese American Fouad Ajami, Professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. He is co-chair of the Hoover Working Group on Islamism and the International Order.The Wall Street Journal, June 1, 2011

The [UN] vote in 1947 was viewed as Israel's basic title to independence and] statehood. The Palestinians and the Arab powers had rejected partition and chosen the path of war. Their choice was to prove calamitous.

By the time the guns had fallen silent, the Yishuv, the Jewish community in Palestine, had held its ground against the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. Its forces stood on the shores of the Red Sea in the south, and at the foot of the Golan Heights in the north. Palestinian society had collapsed under the pressure of war. The elites had made their way to neighboring lands. Rural communities had been left atomized and leaderless. The cities had fought, and fallen, alone. '"

Palestine had become a great Arab shame. Few Arabs were willing to tell the story truthfully, to face its harsh verdict. Henceforth the Palestinians would live on a vague idea of restoration and return. No leader had the courage to tell the refugees who had left Acre and Jaffa and Haifa that they could not recover the homes and orchards of their imagination.

Some had taken the keys to their houses with them to Syria and Lebanon and across the river to Jordan. They were no more likely to find political satisfaction than the Jews who had been banished from Baghdad and Beirut and Cairo, and Casablanca and Fez, but the idea of return, enshrined into a "right of return," would persist. (Wadi Abu Jamil, the Jewish quarter of the Beirut of my boyhood, is now a Hezbollah stronghold, and no narrative exalts or recalls that old presence.)
Fouad Ajami: The U.N. Can't Deliver a Palestinian State - WSJ.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

Arabs went to war with Israel in an attempt to ethnically cleanse the Jews.

Where was Israel? You have not posted a map.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

International law.

It is inadmissible to acquire land through the threat or use of force.

Israel is a foreign, military occupation of Palestine. It sits inside Palestine's borders with no borders of its own.

Who did they use force against? When? Be specific.

There is no country of Palestine, how can it have borders?

Read the OP or any other source of history.

The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was a country of Palestine? When?
Who was in charge? Did they have a currency?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Arabs went to war with Israel in an attempt to ethnically cleanse the Jews.

Where was Israel? You have not posted a map.

If the Arabs had only accepted partition, they'd have something instead of nothing.

 

[JStone]

Who did they use force against? When? Be specific.

There is no country of Palestine, how can it have borders?

Read the OP or any other source of history.

The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was a country of Palestine? When?
Who was in charge? Did they have a currency?

Didn't you know, the great Palestinian King Salem was in charge of Palestine

Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 3 Books On History of Jerusalem...

On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."

King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history

And, let's not forget that Jesus Christ, the Jewish Rabbi from Israel who taught the Torah, was really a Palestinian...

 

[JStone]

Arabs Behaving Badly

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis....

The attitudes of the Israeli and Arab governments [after the 1948 War] have been described by a UN official who was principal secretary of the UN Commission:

. . . this good will and spirit of cooperation was conspicuous by its absence both in the Israeli government and the Arab states. The former can hardly be blamed for this, since, when all is said and done, it was the one called upon to make concessions; but the indifference of the Arab governments, except when they were exploiting the theme in their constant diatribes and invectives against the State of Israel before the Assembly of the United Nations, was incomprehensible and inexcusable. This attitude, more than anything else, convinced me that the interest which the Arab governments appeared to take in the refugees was mainly political and polemical in character and that they regarded them chiefly as a platform from which to launch accusation after accusation against the government of Israel for its refusal to carry out the Assembly's resolutions. It must be admitted that the Israeli government's obstinate rejection of any concession in favor of the refugees, whatever the justification, played straight into the hands of the Arabs.

Though the subject has been curiously glossed over, there are some other indications of the clash between the refugee interest in returning home and in any settlement which might secure this, and the Arab government interest in political warfare against Israel, regardless of the immediate needs of the refugees. A report from Lausanne published in the New York Times of August 20, 1949 speaks of the Arab refugee representatives as “‘boiling mad’” over treatment they are getting both from the United Nations Palestine Conciliation Commission and from Arab government representatives. Muhammad Nimr al-Hawari, quoted in the New York Times of May 7, had been even more explicit:

“Unless this conference [the discussions of Arab and Israeli governments with the Conciliation Commission] produces agreement on the refugees' future,” Mr. Hawari, who is himself a refugee, told this correspondent, “there will be explosions such as the Middle East has not yet seen. We will attack the Jews; we will attack the Arab Government [sic]; we will attack the British and we will attack the Americans. Our people are not interested in awaiting frontier or political settlements. No Arab Government speaks for us or represents us.” Mr. Hawari emphasized that the refugees considered its [sic] Arab Governments only slightly less guilty than they considered the Israeli Government to be of using the refugees as pawns in a political game