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I'd say it's you that don't know what's going on. I heard what's going on by listening to Zeyala's torpid speech to the UN yesterday and his Bullshit account of what the events leading up to the his arrest were up to and including his hiding from the army in his "night clothes," his capture and being put on an airplane out of the country. If you listened to what he said and you still believe that this is illegitimate, then there is really little hope for you.
He tried to say that his "poll" was just like a Gallup poll. It had no binding effect. He was just trying to see what the people thought about certain political topics. He said he wanted there to be paper ballots for this "poll" because the people don't have phones or postal service, so instead, he wanted to do outreach to them.
Oh, but if you are still buying that, wait, it gets better. While saying this was non-binding and had nothing to do with him or his political future, he said that he had arranged for many observers to be on the ground to guarantee how fair an equitable the "poll" was. Well, I don't know about you, but I've never seen international observers needed for a Gallup poll. So, the upshot, in Zeyala's opinion, therefore the Supreme Court's opinion was not fair or honest because he never tried to do what they said.
It is really such a load of bullshit, that if you can't see through it, you are either dishonest or support leftist dictators. There really is no other option.
Zelaya isn't exactly an upstanding guy. But that doesn't mean the military gets to unilaterally remove him from power. Thats just not the way it works. As I said, you are supporting a military coup. Really rather pathetic on your part, but then rightwingers don't believe in Democracy, only in countries that agree with us.
How exactly did the military act unilaterally? A couple of officers may have made a bad decision about the president's disposition after he was arrested, but up to that point it was FAR from unilateral and therefore NOT a military coup.
So, the president can act outside the Constitution and should be protected if he does so, but if the military acts outside it while on orders from the judiciary and the congress then it should be what?
My opinion is that if individuals actions exceeded their authority, then they should be held to account. The president can be tried in absentia for treason. The officers for whatever unauthorized actions they took. Two wrongs don't make a right. But, as I said before, he'd be sitting in a jail cell not running the country. I haven't seen anyone show evidence that the president of the congress is not the next in line to the presidency.
That's all you got? Partisan hack? For whom am I a partisan hack? I'm on the right, but I'm not a Republican. I'm not a member of the Libertarian Party. However, I'm not on the right on every issue. Many social issues I'm on the left. In foreign policy, I'm a Morganthauian, nationalist and unapologetic about it.
Who said the president can act outside the Constitution and should be protected if he does? Certainly not me. Perhaps you can leave out the strawmen, eh?
The officers unauthorized actions are fixable. Re-instate the president. You don't just punish people who commit crimes, you try to fix the ill that occurred. Surely you know this.
Oh...heres a fun little gem.
Then Congress produced what it said was Mr Zelaya's letter of resignation, which it voted to accept. The ousted president dismissed the letter as a fake.
Wow. Incredibly legitimate process you are justifying there Tech. They forged a letter and accepted it.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Honduran leader forced into exile
Process matters. This was nothing more than a military coup which you are justifying.
So first you say you didn't do it, and then you do it again.Loony tune.
You call to reinstate the president. He's currently under indictment for Treason. Whatever the military did, it isn't treason. They arrested Zeyala under orders from the Supreme Court. Their error is in disposition. The proper corrective action is to place the party's back in a position they should have in. Thus, Zeyala should present himself to be taken into custody and arraignment on charges of treason and other crimes.
The military officers involved (they have a word for the head of the military -- it's officer), should be charged and tried for their crimes, if they committed any. Nobody said or thought that it might be a couple of Lieutenants shipping him off to Costa Rica.
So, your current position is that only Zeyala is a good guy and the Congress and military are criminals involved in a criminal conspiracy against this light of democracy Zeyala? Is the supreme court involved too? Need some more Reynolds Wrap for your beanie?
Oh, and your oh so legitimate pals are arresting the presidents allies, and are beating protestors. But they say it was all on the straight and narrow, so I'm sure it was.
[quote[
The military also appeared to be moving against Mr. Zelayas allies. Local media reported that Foreign Minister Patricia Rodas and the mayor of San Pedro Sula, the countrys second largest city, had been detained at military bases.
Who said the president can act outside the Constitution and should be protected if he does? Certainly not me. Perhaps you can leave out the strawmen, eh?
The officers unauthorized actions are fixable. Re-instate the president. You don't just punish people who commit crimes, you try to fix the ill that occurred. Surely you know this.
Oh...heres a fun little gem.
Wow. Incredibly legitimate process you are justifying there Tech. They forged a letter and accepted it.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Honduran leader forced into exile
Process matters. This was nothing more than a military coup which you are justifying.
So first you say you didn't do it, and then you do it again.
Are you referring to me saying the president shouldn't be protected?
You call to reinstate the president. He's currently under indictment for Treason. Whatever the military did, it isn't treason. They arrested Zeyala under orders from the Supreme Court. Their error is in disposition. The proper corrective action is to place the party's back in a position they should have in. Thus, Zeyala should present himself to be taken into custody and arraignment on charges of treason and other crimes.
And they should re-instate him as president.
The military officers involved (they have a word for the head of the military -- it's officer), should be charged and tried for their crimes, if they committed any. Nobody said or thought that it might be a couple of Lieutenants shipping him off to Costa Rica.
So, your current position is that only Zeyala is a good guy and the Congress and military are criminals involved in a criminal conspiracy against this light of democracy Zeyala? Is the supreme court involved too? Need some more Reynolds Wrap for your beanie?
Wtf? Yes, I think that Zeyala is a good guy. Thats why I said:
Zelaya isn't exactly an upstanding guy
Are you even reading what I say, or are you just giving me back kneejerk reactions?
So first you say you didn't do it, and then you do it again.
Are you referring to me saying the president shouldn't be protected?
And they should re-instate him as president.
Wtf? Yes, I think that Zeyala is a good guy. Thats why I said:
Zelaya isn't exactly an upstanding guy
Are you even reading what I say, or are you just giving me back kneejerk reactions?
Sorry I can't give you full time and attention. I'm in the middle of writing a semi-annual report to the DC Federal Court. You'll have to take a back seat.
Oh, and your oh so legitimate pals are arresting the presidents allies, and are beating protestors. But they say it was all on the straight and narrow, so I'm sure it was.
[quote[
The military also appeared to be moving against Mr. Zelayas allies. Local media reported that Foreign Minister Patricia Rodas and the mayor of San Pedro Sula, the countrys second largest city, had been detained at military bases.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/world/americas/29honduras.html?pagewanted=2&hp
Are you referring to me saying the president shouldn't be protected?
And they should re-instate him as president.
Wtf? Yes, I think that Zeyala is a good guy. Thats why I said:
Are you even reading what I say, or are you just giving me back kneejerk reactions?
Sorry I can't give you full time and attention. I'm in the middle of writing a semi-annual report to the DC Federal Court. You'll have to take a back seat.
You put a federal court before me?
You are such a cad. An absolute cad. I bet you won't even be home for dinner either.
Please don't make this all or nothing. Direct intervention is not necessary; to just to speak up was all that was asked by those here in the US who found fault with the presidents limp support for those in the streets - note that he finally did use more condemnatory language.As for his antipathy towards Britain and the Iranian protestors, that is frankly stupid. Read a little bit about the protests. Read about how Iranians don't want Obama to intervene. Perish forbid the president support the Iranian protestors by doing what they want, as opposed to what rightwing nutjobs like yourself want.
Please don't make this all or nothing. Direct intervention is not necessary; to just to speak up was all that was asked by those here in the US who found fault with the presidents limp support for those in the streets - note that he finally did use more condemnatory language.As for his antipathy towards Britain and the Iranian protestors, that is frankly stupid. Read a little bit about the protests. Read about how Iranians don't want Obama to intervene. Perish forbid the president support the Iranian protestors by doing what they want, as opposed to what rightwing nutjobs like yourself want.
Khamenei, your recent actions and behavior has brought shame to us clerics. Our image in the streets and bazaars has been tarnished as everyone is placing us in the same category as Ahmadinejad. Khamenei, you are wrong, your actions are wrong. I believe in the velayat e fagih more than you.
Im not preaching these messages so that I could be associated with the West. I loathe the West and will fight to the last drop of my blood before I or my land succumbs to the West. On the contrary, Im preaching these messages on the count that the respect for our profession is gone. Young people are not praying anymore, whose fault is that? It is your fault Mr. Khamenei, its your fault for placing us in the same line as that lunatic Ahmadinejad.
True, he was charged with treason among other things, by the supreme court. The military chose to eject him rather than put him in a prison cell so that they could lower the chance for violence by Zeyala supporters. I'm not sure I agree with that decision, but it's water under the bridge and I would think that he would prefer to have his freedom in exile to a cold cell in Honduras, but maybe not.
And where in the Constitution does it say that the military gets to make that choice?
A distinction without a difference? Really? If Clinton was arrested, he would have been automatically thrown out of power? Is this honestly what you believe?
Or would it actually have been that his VP would have assumed responsibilities until he was released or impeached? There is a huge difference between allowing someone else temporary powers, and unilaterally deciding that the president is going to be deposed and someone else will be in power.
The rule of law? The military extrajudicially ejected the president from power. The court never said to depose him, and they never said to give anyone else power.
It remained under civilian authority? Really? Whose civilian authority exactly?
I give a shit what Obama says on the subject. He clearly doesn't know what he's doing in foreign policy, so why pay attention. He doesn't know what it means to stand for freedom. He has no concept of leading the free world. He's much more comfortable being a back-bencher as he has his whole political life.
Way to show off your ignorance there. I'm sure you think he should have been all involved in the Iranian protests, right?
For pity's sake will you get a clue. Please figure out that the HONDURAN constitution might have different remedies and methods than the U.S. constitution. Do you always have to be so freakin' thick?
Who said the president can act outside the Constitution and should be protected if he does? Certainly not me. Perhaps you can leave out the strawmen, eh?
The officers unauthorized actions are fixable. Re-instate the president. You don't just punish people who commit crimes, you try to fix the ill that occurred. Surely you know this.
Oh...heres a fun little gem.
Wow. Incredibly legitimate process you are justifying there Tech. They forged a letter and accepted it.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Honduran leader forced into exile
Process matters. This was nothing more than a military coup which you are justifying.
So first you say you didn't do it, and then you do it again.
You call to reinstate the president. He's currently under indictment for Treason. Whatever the military did, it isn't treason. They arrested Zeyala under orders from the Supreme Court. Their error is in disposition. The proper corrective action is to place the party's back in a position they should have in. Thus, Zeyala should present himself to be taken into custody and arraignment on charges of treason and other crimes.
The military officers involved (they have a word for the head of the military -- it's officer), should be charged and tried for their crimes, if they committed any. Nobody said or thought that it might be a couple of Lieutenants shipping him off to Costa Rica.
So, your current position is that only Zeyala is a good guy and the Congress and military are criminals involved in a criminal conspiracy against this light of democracy Zeyala? Is the supreme court involved too? Need some more Reynolds Wrap for your beanie?
Sorry to nitpick here, but aren't there many levels of officer? And isn't lieutenant, in fact, one of them?
And where in the Constitution does it say that the military gets to make that choice?
A distinction without a difference? Really? If Clinton was arrested, he would have been automatically thrown out of power? Is this honestly what you believe?
Or would it actually have been that his VP would have assumed responsibilities until he was released or impeached? There is a huge difference between allowing someone else temporary powers, and unilaterally deciding that the president is going to be deposed and someone else will be in power.
The rule of law? The military extrajudicially ejected the president from power. The court never said to depose him, and they never said to give anyone else power.
It remained under civilian authority? Really? Whose civilian authority exactly?
Way to show off your ignorance there. I'm sure you think he should have been all involved in the Iranian protests, right?
For pity's sake will you get a clue. Please figure out that the HONDURAN constitution might have different remedies and methods than the U.S. constitution. Do you always have to be so freakin' thick?
The Honduran Constitution does NOT have a remedy where the military gets to depose the president because they think the president has acted improperly. If you believe otherwise, please cite the provision.
This is scary. Our president is openly supporting a regime that wants to re-write the Honduran Constitution in efforts to extend his presidency. The Honduran Supreme Court ruled that such a referendum was illegal. Yet we are supporting this joker who is thumbing his nose at the Supreme Court?
What? are we not to recognize our US Supreme Court decisions in this country Mr. President?
Geaux
The same Congress that, after the military had kidnapped, beaten and dumped President Manuel Zelaya in Costa Rica had declared one of its own, Roberto Micheletti, as the coup "president" today passed an emergency law stripping Hondurans of the following rights from the country's constitution:
1. The right to protest.
2. Freedom in one's home from unwarranted search, seizure and arrest.
3. Freedom of association.
4. Guarantees of rights of due process while under arrest.
5. Freedom of transit in the country.
Just for you, cliffs on the Honduran situation:This is scary. Our president is openly supporting a regime that wants to re-write the Honduran Constitution in efforts to extend his presidency. The Honduran Supreme Court ruled that such a referendum was illegal. Yet we are supporting this joker who is thumbing his nose at the Supreme Court?
What? are we not to recognize our US Supreme Court decisions in this country Mr. President?
Geaux
So you support military coups then?
Prez wants to change constitution so he can run for prez again.
Constitution says he can't.
Prez changes constitution on his own.
Supreme Court orders Military general to remove President.
Prez fires General
Court reinstates General
Prez flees
Democracy reigns in Honduras
Does that help?
Now guess which side Obama is on?
This is scary. Our president is openly supporting a regime that wants to re-write the Honduran Constitution in efforts to extend his presidency. The Honduran Supreme Court ruled that such a referendum was illegal. Yet we are supporting this joker who is thumbing his nose at the Supreme Court?
What? are we not to recognize our US Supreme Court decisions in this country Mr. President?
Geaux
True! This is exactly what Chavez did to stay in power!
Funny that Obama finds himself in the crowd of Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba on supporting the Honduran ex-president!
