Not Exactly Ours, But Britains

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Annie, Jan 2, 2004.

  1. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    Wow, seems some Brits are becoming downright libertarian:

    http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/005287.html#005287

    Tony Martin was clearly a trailblazer:


    A proposal to allow homeowners to use "any means" to defend their homes, has topped a BBC poll on the bill people would most like to see become law.

    BBC Radio 4's Today programme asked listeners to vote on suggested Private Members' Bills, with the first choice taking 37% of the votes.

    Norfolk farmer Tony Martin, whose fatal shooting of a burglar in 1999 sparked a national debate, welcomed the result.


    As well he might. For him this is a vindication. For others, though, thi is an embarrassment, not least of all for the Conservative MP who was supposed to be Tony Martin's champion:


    Tony Martin's MP, Conservative Henry Bellingham said the idea went too far by suggesting homeowners should use "any means" to protect their property.

    For politicians this potato is just too hot to touch. The mere mention of rights to self-defence is enough to have them scampering away whelping like whipped curs. Nor do I expect that this synthetic exercise is going to make so much as a dent in the established view that defending oneself from barbarity is morally more reprehensible than the barbarity itself:


    More than 26,000 votes were registered by listeners taking part in the poll and the winning bill will now be presented to the House of Commons by Stephen Pound MP.

    He will need to persuade the 20 MPs who have been chosen to put forward Private Members Bills to take up the poll winner's suggestion.


    He will have more chance trying to persuade Osama Bin Laden to book his daughters in for pole-dancing lessons. Me being cynical? No, not at all. Just hear what the same Stephen Pound has to say about the whole thing in the Guardian:


    Stephen Pound, Labour MP for Ealing North, who was one of the programme's judges, expressed surprise at the high vote for such a controversial plan among listeners to such a programme.

    "My enthusiasm for direct democracy is slightly dampened," the MP told Today. "This is a difficult result. I can't remember who it was who said 'The people have spoken - the bastards'."


    Hmm, colour me skeptical but I have a hunch that his heart is not really going to be behind this campaign. These people are always agitating for 'more democracy' until it jumps up and slaps them in the face. Democracy is only supposed to be for the compliant: no 'bastards' allowed.

    Mr Pound, however, is one of the more sanguine respondents. Elsewhere there is enough sqwauking and clucking to drown out a poultry market. The Guardian is already denouncing the result as a fix:


    The BBC was warned yesterday that it may have fallen victim to a mass lobbying campaign after a controversial plan for a "Tony Martin" law topped a Today programme poll yesterday.

    Suspicions were raised when thousands of listeners voted for the mock parliamentary bill which would allow homeowners to use "any means" to defend their homes from intruders. Such a law would have protected Mr Martin, who was jailed for the manslaughter of a teenage burglar, Fred Barras, in 1999.


    And from the BBC article, linked above, a dire warning of what such mad and irresponsible ideas would lead to:


    But leading criminal barrister John Cooper warned that the idea was dangerously flawed.

    He said: "The law as it stands at the moment, despite its critics, is functioning. If you are in your house and you are attacked by someone or threatened by someone, you can use proportionate force.

    "We do not live in the wild west. This legislation that is proposed effectively may well turn us into that."


    Thus proving that it is possible to be wrong on more than one level. For a start the 'wild west' was nowhere near as wild as legend would have it. But I'm quibbling here because I sort of know what he is driving at. He thinks RKBA and a right to self-defence would result in a desolate landscape riven with feuds, lynchings and random acts of carnage. He is still wrong though because that is exactly the type of scenario we are heading for now. The virtually unprotected citizen is easy meat for predatory.

    Having assumed a monopoly of the crime-control business, the British state has found it cannot actually do that job and, increasingly, is disinclined to even try. The only thing they can maintain is the pretence by landing like a ton of bricks on any citizen who dares to be more than a docile farm-animal.

    The result of the BBC poll gives lie to the whole facade. People are losing faith in the ability (and even willingness) of the state to come to their aid in time of crisis. As the police spend more of their time collecting taxes and scoring brownie points with their political masters, this disquiet will only grow.
     
  2. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    Ok, so I'm replying to myself, that's ok, I talk to myself too. Here's some more on that BBC poll, displaying that our British cousins may not be so different than us, but their politicians sure are:

    BBC elites confounded by their listeners

    http://www.americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=53
    The BBC recently gave its radio listeners a chance to express their will, but did not want to hear the result. The great unwashed mass, who cough-up the license fees which pay the Beeb’s freight, were asked to suggest a piece of legislation to improve life in Britain, with the promise that an MP would then attempt to get it onto the statute books.



    Listeners to BBC 4’s Today program (the very same show which claimed that intelligence on Iraqi WMDs had been “sexed up”), reposnded with a suggestion that would allow homeowners to defend themselves against intruders, without facing legal liabilities. The winning proposal was denounced as a "ludicrous, brutal, unworkable blood-stained piece of legislation" - by Stephen Pound, the very MP whose job it is to try to push it through Parliament.

    The Independent reports that Mr Pound's reaction was provoked by the news that the winner of Today's "Listeners' Law" poll was a plan to allow homeowners "to use any means to defend their home from intruders" - a prospect that could see householders free to kill burglars, without question.

    "The people have spoken," the Labour MP replied to the programme, "... the bastards."

    Having recovered his composure, Mr Pound told The Independent: "We are going to have to re-evaluate the listenership of Radio 4. I would have expected this result if there had been a poll in The Sun. Do we really want a law that says you can slaughter anyone who climbs in your window?"

    The Sun is a Murdoch-owned tabloid noted for photos of bare-breasted women and nationalistic support of Britain’s participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

    MP Pound’s disdain for popular opinion is typical of not only British, but Western European elites, who consider themselves, and the nations whose public policies they control, to be vastly superior to the uncivilized Yanks, who carry guns and execute vicious criminals. Public opinion polls show that a majority of Britons favor capital punishment, but there is virtually no chance it will be re-introduced to Britain anytime soon.

    Segments of the British public have been outraged over the jailing of Norfolk farmer Tony Martin, who shot a burglar who had broken into his house. In all probability, this outraged fuelled the votes which selected resulted in victory for the self-defense (or ‘vigilante’) law which won the BBC poll.

    MP Pound plans cursory introduction of the bill which he promised, but will only go through the motions. He called it "the sort of idea somebody comes up with in a bar on a Saturday night between 'string 'em all up' and 'send 'em all all home'".

    More on the story, from the Evening Standard

    Posted by Thomas 01 01 03
     
  3. nbdysfu
    Offline

    nbdysfu Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    829
    Thanks Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +29
    Was the Labour MP's remark satire aimed at Pound, or the same reaction?
     
  4. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    I think they are one in the same. You are referring to the second post?
     
  5. nbdysfu
    Offline

    nbdysfu Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    829
    Thanks Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +29
    Qoute:
    ___________
    "The people have spoken," the Labour MP replied to the programme, "... the bastards."
    ___________

    Both articles mentioned it.
     
  6. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    Yup same guy. He was the one who is supposed to 'push through' the peoples' will, but he is too 'enlightened' to do any such thing for the ignorant masses.

    I detest Clinton, but he wouldn't thumb his nose at something like this.
     

Share This Page