Norwegian mass killer ruled insane, likely to avoid jail

[Dreamingwolf]

Reuters is reporting this. How is it right that a mass murderer like this who executed a complex plan be called insane?

 

[Mad Scientist]

I could say it was planned like that all along but that would be a "conspiracy theory" and "crazy talk".

 

[Dreamingwolf]

I could say it was planned like that all along but that would be a "conspiracy theory" and "crazy talk".

Are you saying that all the media material he created leading up to his killing spree, he designed to keep himself out of prison? I could believe that.

 

[Mad Scientist]

I could say it was planned like that all along but that would be a "conspiracy theory" and "crazy talk".

Are you saying that all the media material he created leading up to his killing spree, he designed to keep himself out of prison? I could believe that.

No, he couldn't possibly have done that all by himself. In fact it's proven that he "copy/pasted" much of his "Manifesto" from another source.

But again, that would be a "conspiracy theory" and "crazy talk".

 

[Euro]

Reuters is reporting this. How is it right that a mass murderer like this who executed a complex plan be called insane?

Considering that the longest sentence in Norway is 21 years in jail, it’s better and safer that he spends the rest of his life in a mental hospital. That way he’ll never come out again.

 

[Dreamingwolf]

Norway has a justice tool called "forvaring" or indefinate custody if the subject is deemed dangerous to the public, so it is possible to keep him in prison for his entire life. Under psych care, hes out once hes deemed sane.

 

[George Costanza]

Reuters is reporting this. How is it right that a mass murderer like this who executed a complex plan be called insane?

Insanity does not necessarily mean that the insane person is incapable of intelligent thought.

How could someone who systematically kills dozens of people NOT be called insane? Think about it. One definition of insanity is being out of touch with reality. I wouild say that what this guy did is pretty far removed from the kind of reality most of us would recognize. Could you ever conceive of yourself doing something like that?

Of course, I'm sure his mental situation is much, much more complex than the simple analysis I offer here, and I'm sure that he is indeed, totally insane. So he spends the rest of his life in a home for the bewildered - seems appropriate to me. What do you want to do - draw and quarter him in the public square?

 

[Dreamingwolf]

Yes. But I would settle for a tiny uncomfortable cell for the rest of his life. If they go the insane route, and in a year they deem him no longer insane hes free to go right?

Thats how I understand the insanity gig, not sure if norway works the same.

 

[George Costanza]

If they go the insane route, and in a year they deem him no longer insane hes free to go right?

No. He hasn't had trial yet. He has been deemed incapable of even having a trial due to his insanity. If he is no longer insane, then he is able to participate in his trial and the trial will be held.

The most common situation is where the defendant is insane when he commits the crime but is competent to stand trial. If he is found not guilty by reason of insanity, he is then placed in an institution where he will provbably remain for the rest of his life. If he does regain sanity and is found to no longer be a danger to society, he would then be released.

Suppose, however, the defendant is insane when he commits the crime and is also incompetent to stand trail due to his insanity at time of trial. He is placed in an institution where he regains his sanity. Now he is competent to stand trial. Trial is held, and he is found not guilty of the crime by reason of insanity. Now what? He cannot be placed in an institution, because he is now sane. In such a case, he would go free, since the law says that a person is not legally responsible for crimes they commit while insane.

 

[Zander]

This is a case where lethal injection seems appropriate to me. He killed a bunch of kids in cold blood in front of hundreds of witnesses. He's insane? DAH!!!!! Give him a dirt nap.....The "trial" should be a mere formality.

 

[koshergrl]

Reuters is reporting this. How is it right that a mass murderer like this who executed a complex plan be called insane?

Insanity does not necessarily mean that the insane person is incapable of intelligent thought.

How could someone who systematically kills dozens of people NOT be called insane? Think about it. One definition of insanity is being out of touch with reality. I wouild say that what this guy did is pretty far removed from the kind of reality most of us would recognize. Could you ever conceive of yourself doing something like that?

Of course, I'm sure his mental situation is much, much more complex than the simple analysis I offer here, and I'm sure that he is indeed, totally insane. So he spends the rest of his life in a home for the bewildered - seems appropriate to me. What do you want to do - draw and quarter him in the public square?

You are so full of shit it's unbelievable.

Nothing you have written here has any merit whatever. You obviously have no understanding of psychology, the justice system, or mental illness.

But don't let that stop you from blathering.

 

[Dreamingwolf]

You are so full of shit it's unbelievable.

Nothing you have written here has any merit whatever. You obviously have no understanding of psychology, the justice system, or mental illness.

But don't let that stop you from blathering.

This is how you were taught in your psychology classes, present no opinion only defame those you disagree with. No wonder I was so pleased and entertained by Duncan Scotts Ammendment he tried to get put into state law in New Mexico I believe.

The amendment said: ``When a psychologist or psychiatrist testifies during a defendant's competentcy hearing, the psychologist or psychiatrist shall wear a cone-shaped hat that is not less than two feet tall. The surface of the hat shall be imprinted with stars and lightning bolts.

``Additionally, a psychologist or psychiatrist shall be required to don a white beard that is not less than 18 inches in length, and shall punctuate crucial elements of his testimony by stabbing the air with a wand. Whenever a psychologist or psychiatrist provides expert testimony regarding a defendant's competentcy, the baliff shall contemporaneously dim the courtroom lights and administer two strikes to a Chinese gong.''

I didnt believe that was actually put into a state bill, so I contacted the state and they sent me a copy of his ammendment for free. I wish I could find it I would love to scan it in. The governor wouldnt sign it, boo on him.

 

[George Costanza]

Reuters is reporting this. How is it right that a mass murderer like this who executed a complex plan be called insane?

Insanity does not necessarily mean that the insane person is incapable of intelligent thought.

How could someone who systematically kills dozens of people NOT be called insane? Think about it. One definition of insanity is being out of touch with reality. I wouild say that what this guy did is pretty far removed from the kind of reality most of us would recognize. Could you ever conceive of yourself doing something like that?

Of course, I'm sure his mental situation is much, much more complex than the simple analysis I offer here, and I'm sure that he is indeed, totally insane. So he spends the rest of his life in a home for the bewildered - seems appropriate to me. What do you want to do - draw and quarter him in the public square?

You are so full of shit it's unbelievable.

Nothing you have written here has any merit whatever. You obviously have no understanding of psychology, the justice system, or mental illness.

But don't let that stop you from blathering.

What is your precise objection to my post here? Are you taking issue with my statement that an insane person is capable of intelligent thought processes?

Have you ever engaged in conversation with an insane person? Once, a number of years ago, a client came into my office. He wanted to make out his will. We talked about his general situation, how he wanted dispose of his assets, etc. He impressed me as being an intelligent person who was concerned about making out a proper will and trying to do his best to give me the information necessary to do so. About ten minutes into the conversation, he went into a situation that existed for him in Washington, D.C., involving attempts by the FBI to subvert an invention that he was trying to patent. He then launched into other aspects of his life that obviously had no basis in reality. And yet, during the first portion of our conversation, he appeared totally normal and actually of above average intelligence.

On another occasion, I had a witness on the stand in our mental competency court. He was seeking release from custody on the grounds that he was competent to stand trail and should be released on his own recognizence pending further court appearances. I had my doubts about his chances of success, but he had a right to testify and was insisting on that right. He started out just fine. He was giving rational, intelligent answers to the questions that were being put to him by myself and by the judge. I actually thought he might have a chance of making it.

And then he said: "And another thing, your honor. It is absolutely essential that I be released from custody because I am employed by the City of Los Angeles to shoot down MIG fighters as they are making strafing runs over downtown Los Angeles, and if I can't attend to my duties, there is going to be big trouble in this town."

Believe me - insanity is not always that apparent, oftentimes hiding behind very intelligent thought processes.

 

[koshergrl]

Insanity does not necessarily mean that the insane person is incapable of intelligent thought.

How could someone who systematically kills dozens of people NOT be called insane? Think about it. One definition of insanity is being out of touch with reality. I wouild say that what this guy did is pretty far removed from the kind of reality most of us would recognize. Could you ever conceive of yourself doing something like that?

Of course, I'm sure his mental situation is much, much more complex than the simple analysis I offer here, and I'm sure that he is indeed, totally insane. So he spends the rest of his life in a home for the bewildered - seems appropriate to me. What do you want to do - draw and quarter him in the public square?

You are so full of shit it's unbelievable.

Nothing you have written here has any merit whatever. You obviously have no understanding of psychology, the justice system, or mental illness.

But don't let that stop you from blathering.

What is your precise objection to my post here? Are you taking issue with my statement that an insane person is capable of intelligent thought processes?

Have you ever engaged in conversation with an insane person? Once, a number of years ago, a client came into my office. He wanted to make out his will. We talked about his general situation, how he wanted dispose of his assets, etc. He impressed me as being an intelligent person who was concerned about making out a proper will and trying to do his best to give me the information necessary to do so. About ten minutes into the conversation, he went into a situation that existed for him in Washington, D.C., involving attempts by the FBI to subvert an invention that he was trying to patent. He then launched into other aspects of his life that obviously had no basis in reality. And yet, during the first portion of our conversation, he appeared totally normal and actually of above average intelligence.

On another occasion, I had a witness on the stand in our mental competency court. He was seeking release from custody on the grounds that he was competent to stand trail and should be released on his own recognizence pending further court appearances. I had my doubts about his chances of success, but he had a right to testify and was insisting on that right. He started out just fine. He was giving rational, intelligent answers to the questions that were being put to him by myself and by the judge. I actually thought he might have a chance of making it.

And then he said: "And another thing, your honor. It is absolutely essential that I be released from custody because I am employed by the City of Los Angeles to shoot down MIG fighters as they are making strafing runs over downtown Los Angeles, and if I can't attend to my duties, there is going to be big trouble in this town."

Believe me - insanity is not always that apparent, oftentimes hiding behind very intelligent thought processes.

Yes, I have worked with insane people. Quite extensively, and I have worked with the justice system, specifically, as it pertains to insane people (guardianships, committals, etc).

I know what insanity is. People who are NOT insane do awful things all the time. People who are insane can't help themselves. People who are NOT insane know very well what they're doing and they do it anyway.

I'm so sick of the mind set that if anyone thinks differently than you, then they must be stupid, or crazy, or must have something else wrong with them, because YOU just don't understand what motivates them.

No, you don't have to be insane to kill people. That's the bottom line, and that's the stupidity of your post.

 

[Ravi]

Reuters is reporting this. How is it right that a mass murderer like this who executed a complex plan be called insane?

Considering that the longest sentence in Norway is 21 years in jail, it’s better and safer that he spends the rest of his life in a mental hospital. That way he’ll never come out again.

Why can't they give him 21 years for each life that he took? He'd never get out that way either.

 

[Ravi]

You are so full of shit it's unbelievable.

Nothing you have written here has any merit whatever. You obviously have no understanding of psychology, the justice system, or mental illness.

But don't let that stop you from blathering.

What is your precise objection to my post here? Are you taking issue with my statement that an insane person is capable of intelligent thought processes?

Have you ever engaged in conversation with an insane person? Once, a number of years ago, a client came into my office. He wanted to make out his will. We talked about his general situation, how he wanted dispose of his assets, etc. He impressed me as being an intelligent person who was concerned about making out a proper will and trying to do his best to give me the information necessary to do so. About ten minutes into the conversation, he went into a situation that existed for him in Washington, D.C., involving attempts by the FBI to subvert an invention that he was trying to patent. He then launched into other aspects of his life that obviously had no basis in reality. And yet, during the first portion of our conversation, he appeared totally normal and actually of above average intelligence.

On another occasion, I had a witness on the stand in our mental competency court. He was seeking release from custody on the grounds that he was competent to stand trail and should be released on his own recognizence pending further court appearances. I had my doubts about his chances of success, but he had a right to testify and was insisting on that right. He started out just fine. He was giving rational, intelligent answers to the questions that were being put to him by myself and by the judge. I actually thought he might have a chance of making it.

And then he said: "And another thing, your honor. It is absolutely essential that I be released from custody because I am employed by the City of Los Angeles to shoot down MIG fighters as they are making strafing runs over downtown Los Angeles, and if I can't attend to my duties, there is going to be big trouble in this town."

Believe me - insanity is not always that apparent, oftentimes hiding behind very intelligent thought processes.

Yes, I have worked with insane people. Quite extensively, and I have worked with the justice system, specifically, as it pertains to insane people (guardianships, committals, etc).

I know what insanity is. People who are NOT insane do awful things all the time. People who are insane can't help themselves. People who are NOT insane know very well what they're doing and they do it anyway.

I'm so sick of the mind set that if anyone thinks differently than you, then they must be stupid, or crazy, or must have something else wrong with them, because YOU just don't understand what motivates them.

No, you don't have to be insane to kill people. That's the bottom line, and that's the stupidity of your post.

Does this sound sane to you?

The news channel adds that the psychiatrists say the 32-year-old Breivik told them: "He committed the murders — or executions, as he calls them — for the love of his people. He characterizes himself as the most perfect knight after World War II, and that his organization — 'Knights Templar' — will take over power in Europe, and he suggests itself also as a future ruler of Norway."

Norway's Mass Murderer Declared Insane, May Not Go To Prison : The Two-Way : NPR

 

[westwall]

Reuters is reporting this. How is it right that a mass murderer like this who executed a complex plan be called insane?

Considering that the longest sentence in Norway is 21 years in jail, it’s better and safer that he spends the rest of his life in a mental hospital. That way he’ll never come out again.

Why can't they give him 21 years for each life that he took? He'd never get out that way either.

The Norwegian justice system doesn't work that way. All murders in this case are considered a single event. I'm not too sure how they would handle a serial killer.

 

[koshergrl]

What is your precise objection to my post here? Are you taking issue with my statement that an insane person is capable of intelligent thought processes?

Have you ever engaged in conversation with an insane person? Once, a number of years ago, a client came into my office. He wanted to make out his will. We talked about his general situation, how he wanted dispose of his assets, etc. He impressed me as being an intelligent person who was concerned about making out a proper will and trying to do his best to give me the information necessary to do so. About ten minutes into the conversation, he went into a situation that existed for him in Washington, D.C., involving attempts by the FBI to subvert an invention that he was trying to patent. He then launched into other aspects of his life that obviously had no basis in reality. And yet, during the first portion of our conversation, he appeared totally normal and actually of above average intelligence.

On another occasion, I had a witness on the stand in our mental competency court. He was seeking release from custody on the grounds that he was competent to stand trail and should be released on his own recognizence pending further court appearances. I had my doubts about his chances of success, but he had a right to testify and was insisting on that right. He started out just fine. He was giving rational, intelligent answers to the questions that were being put to him by myself and by the judge. I actually thought he might have a chance of making it.

And then he said: "And another thing, your honor. It is absolutely essential that I be released from custody because I am employed by the City of Los Angeles to shoot down MIG fighters as they are making strafing runs over downtown Los Angeles, and if I can't attend to my duties, there is going to be big trouble in this town."

Believe me - insanity is not always that apparent, oftentimes hiding behind very intelligent thought processes.

Yes, I have worked with insane people. Quite extensively, and I have worked with the justice system, specifically, as it pertains to insane people (guardianships, committals, etc).

I know what insanity is. People who are NOT insane do awful things all the time. People who are insane can't help themselves. People who are NOT insane know very well what they're doing and they do it anyway.

I'm so sick of the mind set that if anyone thinks differently than you, then they must be stupid, or crazy, or must have something else wrong with them, because YOU just don't understand what motivates them.

No, you don't have to be insane to kill people. That's the bottom line, and that's the stupidity of your post.

Does this sound sane to you?

The news channel adds that the psychiatrists say the 32-year-old Breivik told them: "He committed the murders — or executions, as he calls them — for the love of his people. He characterizes himself as the most perfect knight after World War II, and that his organization — 'Knights Templar' — will take over power in Europe, and he suggests itself also as a future ruler of Norway."

Norway's Mass Murderer Declared Insane, May Not Go To Prison : The Two-Way : NPR

Justifying the deaths of millions of infants in the name of "overpopulation" sounds insane to me.

But I know the people who approve of that are perfectly sane.

Because how it "sounds" is not the way insanity is determined.

People can believe something completely whacko...and still know that what they're doing isn't acceptable and is illegal..and then either choose to do it or not.

 

[George Costanza]

You are so full of shit it's unbelievable.

Nothing you have written here has any merit whatever. You obviously have no understanding of psychology, the justice system, or mental illness.

But don't let that stop you from blathering.

What is your precise objection to my post here? Are you taking issue with my statement that an insane person is capable of intelligent thought processes?

Have you ever engaged in conversation with an insane person? Once, a number of years ago, a client came into my office. He wanted to make out his will. We talked about his general situation, how he wanted dispose of his assets, etc. He impressed me as being an intelligent person who was concerned about making out a proper will and trying to do his best to give me the information necessary to do so. About ten minutes into the conversation, he went into a situation that existed for him in Washington, D.C., involving attempts by the FBI to subvert an invention that he was trying to patent. He then launched into other aspects of his life that obviously had no basis in reality. And yet, during the first portion of our conversation, he appeared totally normal and actually of above average intelligence.

On another occasion, I had a witness on the stand in our mental competency court. He was seeking release from custody on the grounds that he was competent to stand trail and should be released on his own recognizence pending further court appearances. I had my doubts about his chances of success, but he had a right to testify and was insisting on that right. He started out just fine. He was giving rational, intelligent answers to the questions that were being put to him by myself and by the judge. I actually thought he might have a chance of making it.

And then he said: "And another thing, your honor. It is absolutely essential that I be released from custody because I am employed by the City of Los Angeles to shoot down MIG fighters as they are making strafing runs over downtown Los Angeles, and if I can't attend to my duties, there is going to be big trouble in this town."

Believe me - insanity is not always that apparent, oftentimes hiding behind very intelligent thought processes.

Yes, I have worked with insane people. Quite extensively, and I have worked with the justice system, specifically, as it pertains to insane people (guardianships, committals, etc).

I know what insanity is. People who are NOT insane do awful things all the time. People who are insane can't help themselves. People who are NOT insane know very well what they're doing and they do it anyway.

I'm so sick of the mind set that if anyone thinks differently than you, then they must be stupid, or crazy, or must have something else wrong with them, because YOU just don't understand what motivates them.

No, you don't have to be insane to kill people. That's the bottom line, and that's the stupidity of your post.

I never said that all people who kill others are insane. There is a law school argument that goes: the definition of murder describes an act that is so far removed from reality that anyone who commits murder must, by defninition, be insane. An interesting argument, but not realistic.

My point was (and is), that there are SOME acts of murder that are so far removed from reality, that it becomes questionable whether or not those committing them are sane or insane. That's all.

In passing, it seems to me that you need to work on two things: your obvious anger issues and your manners.

 

[koshergrl]

I don't think so.

Just because I find you abhorrent doesn't mean I have anger issues. See, that's what I mean. You assume that anyone who isn't like you (or who DOESN'T like you) has something wrong with them.

What a narrow minded and ignorant view of humanity.