North Korea sank South Korea war ship

Has there even been an official statement from the White house yet? Or does Obama need 39 meetings and briefings before he can take a firm stand?
 
Has there even been an official statement from the White house yet? Or does Obama need 39 meetings and briefings before he can take a firm stand?

No doubt they are trying to figure out how to word it, to say the South Koreans need to just bend over and take it up the ass while appearing to take a stand and being strong.
 
The team of South Korean and foreign investigators found traces of explosives used in torpedoes on several parts of the sunken ship as well as pieces of composite metal used in such weapons, South Korea's Yonhap news agency said quoting a senior government official.

South Korean officials have not officially accused the North but made little secret of their belief Pyongyang deliberately torpedoed the 1,200-tonne corvette Cheonan in March near their disputed border in retaliation of a naval firefight last year.

The metallic debris and chemical residue appear to be consistent with a type of torpedo made in Germany, indicating the North may have been trying to disguise its involvement by avoiding arms made by allies China and Russia
Probe concludes torpedo sank South Korea ship: report | Reuters
I wonder which nation gets their submarines (for free) from Germany and has a long history of using false flag dirty tricks to trick other nations into wars?
Dolphin class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It also turned out to be a German torpedo:

Probe concludes torpedo sank South Korea ship: report | Reuters
The metallic debris and chemical residue appear to be consistent with a type of torpedo made in Germany

So we have very quiet boats from Germany that are operated by Israel, and we have a German torpedo that the news media is saying was probably used by North Korea to create confusion.

To Israel, the results of US policy towards North Korea have a direct impact on their desires for US policy on Iran. A lack of direct intervention by the US to prevent a North Korean nuclear program has resulted in North Korean development of a nuclear weapons program. Israel currently maintains nuclear hegemony over the rest of the Middle East. If Iran is allowed to move forward with further nuclear development, Israel will no longer be the only nuclear player on their block, which may force them into dealing with the rest of the region on a level playing field. That would be a policy disaster for the Israeli's.

Given the Obama Administration's lack of direct intervention to stop Iran's nuclear program, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Israeli's run a risky gambit to draw attention to the issue. If they could scapegoat North Korea into a military confrontation with South Korea, they could use the event as justification that these "Axis iof Evil" nations who possess nuclear capabilities cannot be trusted, therefore, immediate action must also be taken against Iran.

When you consider the odd nature of this torpedo attack, the North Korean denials, China's toned-down response (as though they do not want to be drawn into a contrived set of circumstances), the slow response of even the South Koreans etc, it makes you wonder if this is another one of those naval events that are intentionally contrived to start a shooting war.

Release of government records over history on the USS Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, and the Gulf of Tonkin have revealed that these were all preventable of falsified incidents that were used to incite the people into supporting a pre-planned war effort. A documentary film was released just this week on the attempted sinking of the USS Liberty in the Mediterranean during the Six Day War, where Israeli aircraft attacked the ship for hours in an attempt to sink it and place the blame on Egypt, in an effort to draw the US into the war. In other words, disguising an attack in order to draw others into war is nothing new for Israel.

My hope is that my conclusions are 100% incorrect and that this event is isolated only to North Korea. I'll make my decision by watching how policy towards Iran is effected if this thing escalates into a shooting war. At that point we'll have a clearer understanding of who actually benefitted from this thing.
 
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The team of South Korean and foreign investigators found traces of explosives used in torpedoes on several parts of the sunken ship as well as pieces of composite metal used in such weapons, South Korea's Yonhap news agency said quoting a senior government official.

South Korean officials have not officially accused the North but made little secret of their belief Pyongyang deliberately torpedoed the 1,200-tonne corvette Cheonan in March near their disputed border in retaliation of a naval firefight last year.

The metallic debris and chemical residue appear to be consistent with a type of torpedo made in Germany, indicating the North may have been trying to disguise its involvement by avoiding arms made by allies China and Russia
Probe concludes torpedo sank South Korea ship: report | Reuters
I wonder which nation gets their submarines (for free) from Germany and has a long history of using false flag dirty tricks to trick other nations into wars?
Dolphin class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It also turned out to be a German torpedo:

Probe concludes torpedo sank South Korea ship: report | Reuters
The metallic debris and chemical residue appear to be consistent with a type of torpedo made in Germany

So we have very quiet boats from Germany that are operated by Israel, and we have a German torpedo that the news media is saying was probably used by North Korea to create confusion.

To Israel, the results of US policy towards North Korea have a direct impact on their desires for US policy on Iran. A lack of direct intervention by the US to prevent a North Korean nuclear program has resulted in North Korean development of a nuclear weapons program. Israel currently maintains nuclear hegemony over the rest of the Middle East. If Iran is allowed to move forward with further nuclear development, Israel will no longer be the only nuclear player on their block, which may force them into dealing with the rest of the reason on a level playing field. That would be a policy disaster for the Israeli's.

Given the Obama Administration's lack of direct intervention to stop Iran's nuclear program, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Israeli's run a risky gambit to draw attention to the issue. If they could scapegoat North Korea into a military confrontation with South Korea, they could use the event as justification that these "Axis iof Evil" nations who possess nuclear capabilities cannot be trusted, therefore, immediate action must also be taken against Iran.

When you consider the odd nature of this torpedo attack, the North Korean denials, China's toned-down response (as though they do not want to be drawn into a contrived set of circumstances), the slow response of even the South Koreans etc, it makes you wonder if this is another one of those naval events that are intentionally contrived to start a shooting war.

Release of government records over history on the USS Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, and the Gulf of Tonkin have revealed that these were all preventable of falsified incidents that were used to incite the people into supporting a pre-planned war effort. A documentary film was released just this week on the attempted sinking of the USS Liberty in the Mediterranean during the Six Day War, where Israeli aircraft attacked the ship for hours in an attempt to sink it and place the blame on Egypt, in an effort to draw the US into the war. In other words, disguising an attack in order to draw others into war is nothing new for Israel.

My hope is that my conclusions are 100% incorrect and that this event is isolated only to North Korea. I'll make my decision by watching how policy towards Iran is effected if this thing escalates into a shooting war. At that point we'll have a clearer understanding of who actually benefitted from this thing.

The only thing wrong with your supposition is that only one submarine was in the water at the time the torpedo was fired. That sub consistently sails out of and in to North Korean ports. No German sub has sailed in to and out of a North Korean port in the ten years time that they US has monitored all traffic in the region. The sub that sank the South Korean vessel was North Korean.
 
Holy shit... The Joos did it?

fuknomx9.gif
 
Probe concludes torpedo sank South Korea ship: report | Reuters
I wonder which nation gets their submarines (for free) from Germany and has a long history of using false flag dirty tricks to trick other nations into wars?
Dolphin class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It also turned out to be a German torpedo:

Probe concludes torpedo sank South Korea ship: report | Reuters
The metallic debris and chemical residue appear to be consistent with a type of torpedo made in Germany

So we have very quiet boats from Germany that are operated by Israel, and we have a German torpedo that the news media is saying was probably used by North Korea to create confusion.

To Israel, the results of US policy towards North Korea have a direct impact on their desires for US policy on Iran. A lack of direct intervention by the US to prevent a North Korean nuclear program has resulted in North Korean development of a nuclear weapons program. Israel currently maintains nuclear hegemony over the rest of the Middle East. If Iran is allowed to move forward with further nuclear development, Israel will no longer be the only nuclear player on their block, which may force them into dealing with the rest of the reason on a level playing field. That would be a policy disaster for the Israeli's.

Given the Obama Administration's lack of direct intervention to stop Iran's nuclear program, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Israeli's run a risky gambit to draw attention to the issue. If they could scapegoat North Korea into a military confrontation with South Korea, they could use the event as justification that these "Axis iof Evil" nations who possess nuclear capabilities cannot be trusted, therefore, immediate action must also be taken against Iran.

When you consider the odd nature of this torpedo attack, the North Korean denials, China's toned-down response (as though they do not want to be drawn into a contrived set of circumstances), the slow response of even the South Koreans etc, it makes you wonder if this is another one of those naval events that are intentionally contrived to start a shooting war.

Release of government records over history on the USS Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, and the Gulf of Tonkin have revealed that these were all preventable of falsified incidents that were used to incite the people into supporting a pre-planned war effort. A documentary film was released just this week on the attempted sinking of the USS Liberty in the Mediterranean during the Six Day War, where Israeli aircraft attacked the ship for hours in an attempt to sink it and place the blame on Egypt, in an effort to draw the US into the war. In other words, disguising an attack in order to draw others into war is nothing new for Israel.

My hope is that my conclusions are 100% incorrect and that this event is isolated only to North Korea. I'll make my decision by watching how policy towards Iran is effected if this thing escalates into a shooting war. At that point we'll have a clearer understanding of who actually benefitted from this thing.

The only thing wrong with your supposition is that only one submarine was in the water at the time the torpedo was fired. That sub consistently sails out of and in to North Korean ports. No German sub has sailed in to and out of a North Korean port in the ten years time that they US has monitored all traffic in the region. The sub that sank the South Korean vessel was North Korean.

As reported by....????
 
Wow. I just found this over at townhall.com from yesterday:

Caroline Glick : South Korea, North Korea, Israel and Iran - Townhall.com
But while it is true that North Korea's proliferation activities threaten global security, it is also true that there is a qualitative difference between the regimes in Pyongyang and Teheran. The regime in Pyongyang is evil, but it is mainly motivated by its desire to survive. In contrast, Iran's regime is openly revolutionary. Its stated aim is to destroy the global order, annihilate Israel and the US and usher in a Shiite messianic era in which Iran will rule the world in the name of Islam.

Depressingly, just as the Iranian threat is greater than the North Korean threat, so the Obama administration's denial of the nature of the Iranian threat is greater than its denial of the North Korean threat. Quite simply, the Obama administration refuses to believe the ideology which informs the actions of Iran's rulers is what they say it is.

....

South Korea's acknowledgment of North Korea's aggression places it on a collision course with the Obama administration which prefers to court Beijing for dollars than deal effectively with Pyongyang's aggression. Israel has been on a collision course with Washington for a year and a half now as it insists in the face of US opposition that Iran's nuclear program is the greatest threat to global security today.

Sadly, the US's ridiculous sanctions resolution and its general diplomatic incompetence make clear is that it is time for Israel to risk escalating its crisis with Obama still further. It is time for Israel to take the lead in the international campaign to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.

No surprises. It seems as though the incident is already being used by Israel to push the US into more direct confrontation with Iran.
 
There are four important points that make it clear that a North Korean submarine did not sink the South Korean corvette.

Fact 1.North Korean submarines are not stealthy enough to penetrate heavily guarded South Korean waters at night and remain undetected by the highly touted anti-submarine warfare units of the American and South Korean forces. A North Korean submarine would be unable to outmaneuver an awesome array of high-tech Aegis warships, identify the corvette Cheonan and then slice it in two with a torpedo before escaping unscathed, leaving no trace of its identity.

Fact 2. The sinking took place not in North Korean waters but well inside tightly guarded South Korean waters, where a slow-moving North Korean submarine would have great difficulty operating covertly and safely, unless it was equipped with AIP (air-independent propulsion) technology.

Fact 2: The disaster took place precisely in the waters where what the Pentagon has called "one of the world's largest simulated exercises" was underway. This war exercise, known as "Key Resolve/Foal Eagle" did not end on March 18 as was reported but actually ran from March 18 to April 30.

Fact 3: The Key Resolve/Foal Eagle exercise on the West Sea near the Northern Limit Line (NLL) was aimed at keeping a more watchful eye on North Korea as well as training for the destruction of weapons of mass destruction in the North. It involved scores of shiny, ultra-modern US and South Korean warships equipped with the latest technology.

Among the fleet were four Aegis ships: the USS Shiloh (CG-67), a 9,600-ton Ticonderoga class cruiser, the USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG-54), a 6,800-ton Arleigh Burke class guided-missile destroyer, the USS Lassen, a 9,200-ton Arleigh Burke class guided-missile destroyer and Sejong the Great, a 8,500-ton South Korean guided-missile destroyer.

The four surface ships are the most important assets of the two navies, and have multi-mission platforms capable of conducting various tasks, such as anti-submarine warfare. There is every likelihood that they were supported by nuclear-powered US submarines and a South Korean "Type 214" submarine that uses AIP technology.
Asia Times Online :: Korea News and Korean Business and Economy, Pyongyang News
So those wiley North Koreans snuck a submarine into the middle of US/ South Korean War Games:eusa_whistle:
 
There are four important points that make it clear that a North Korean submarine did not sink the South Korean corvette.

Fact 1.North Korean submarines are not stealthy enough to penetrate heavily guarded South Korean waters at night and remain undetected by the highly touted anti-submarine warfare units of the American and South Korean forces. A North Korean submarine would be unable to outmaneuver an awesome array of high-tech Aegis warships, identify the corvette Cheonan and then slice it in two with a torpedo before escaping unscathed, leaving no trace of its identity.

Fact 2. The sinking took place not in North Korean waters but well inside tightly guarded South Korean waters, where a slow-moving North Korean submarine would have great difficulty operating covertly and safely, unless it was equipped with AIP (air-independent propulsion) technology.

Fact 2: The disaster took place precisely in the waters where what the Pentagon has called "one of the world's largest simulated exercises" was underway. This war exercise, known as "Key Resolve/Foal Eagle" did not end on March 18 as was reported but actually ran from March 18 to April 30.

Fact 3: The Key Resolve/Foal Eagle exercise on the West Sea near the Northern Limit Line (NLL) was aimed at keeping a more watchful eye on North Korea as well as training for the destruction of weapons of mass destruction in the North. It involved scores of shiny, ultra-modern US and South Korean warships equipped with the latest technology.

Among the fleet were four Aegis ships: the USS Shiloh (CG-67), a 9,600-ton Ticonderoga class cruiser, the USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG-54), a 6,800-ton Arleigh Burke class guided-missile destroyer, the USS Lassen, a 9,200-ton Arleigh Burke class guided-missile destroyer and Sejong the Great, a 8,500-ton South Korean guided-missile destroyer.

The four surface ships are the most important assets of the two navies, and have multi-mission platforms capable of conducting various tasks, such as anti-submarine warfare. There is every likelihood that they were supported by nuclear-powered US submarines and a South Korean "Type 214" submarine that uses AIP technology.
Asia Times Online :: Korea News and Korean Business and Economy, Pyongyang News
So those wiley North Koreans snuck a submarine into the middle of US/ South Korean War Games:eusa_whistle:

Diesel electric subs are well suited to an attack such as this. basically the get into position and just maintain trim and steerage until something they want to hit comes into range.

And btw the AEGIS system is an AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM, it has nothing to do with Anti-submarine warfare.

The attack to place in disputed waters, by a SK controlled island, but in waters that the NK's say is thiers.

Finally guided missile destroyers are again, mostly anti-air/anti surface platforms. ASW is handled by frigates and helicopters.
 
There are four important points that make it clear that a North Korean submarine did not sink the South Korean corvette.

Fact 1.North Korean submarines are not stealthy enough to penetrate heavily guarded South Korean waters at night and remain undetected by the highly touted anti-submarine warfare units of the American and South Korean forces. A North Korean submarine would be unable to outmaneuver an awesome array of high-tech Aegis warships, identify the corvette Cheonan and then slice it in two with a torpedo before escaping unscathed, leaving no trace of its identity.

Fact 2. The sinking took place not in North Korean waters but well inside tightly guarded South Korean waters, where a slow-moving North Korean submarine would have great difficulty operating covertly and safely, unless it was equipped with AIP (air-independent propulsion) technology.

Fact 2: The disaster took place precisely in the waters where what the Pentagon has called "one of the world's largest simulated exercises" was underway. This war exercise, known as "Key Resolve/Foal Eagle" did not end on March 18 as was reported but actually ran from March 18 to April 30.

Fact 3: The Key Resolve/Foal Eagle exercise on the West Sea near the Northern Limit Line (NLL) was aimed at keeping a more watchful eye on North Korea as well as training for the destruction of weapons of mass destruction in the North. It involved scores of shiny, ultra-modern US and South Korean warships equipped with the latest technology.

Among the fleet were four Aegis ships: the USS Shiloh (CG-67), a 9,600-ton Ticonderoga class cruiser, the USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG-54), a 6,800-ton Arleigh Burke class guided-missile destroyer, the USS Lassen, a 9,200-ton Arleigh Burke class guided-missile destroyer and Sejong the Great, a 8,500-ton South Korean guided-missile destroyer.

The four surface ships are the most important assets of the two navies, and have multi-mission platforms capable of conducting various tasks, such as anti-submarine warfare. There is every likelihood that they were supported by nuclear-powered US submarines and a South Korean "Type 214" submarine that uses AIP technology.
Asia Times Online :: Korea News and Korean Business and Economy, Pyongyang News
So those wiley North Koreans snuck a submarine into the middle of US/ South Korean War Games:eusa_whistle:

Unfortunately your source is completely biased:

Here is some of their biased opinion submitted as if its fact-
The Korean People's Army Navy would not attack South Korean or American warships unless provoked, since these vessels carry innocent soldiers on the high seas. True, the KPA Navy would be justified in torpedoing a US Aegis ship or a nuclear-powered submarine if one were caught red-handed. But the KPA Navy would not stoop to infringing on South Korean waters to attack a South Korean ship at random, unless it had returned there after committing hostile acts against North Korea.

Really? They wouldn't attack? Just because you say so? :cuckoo:

It further goes on to suggest the US military blew up the ship in a training accident (without any proof of course) and that the Hussein covered it up by offering the next nuke summit to be at South Korea. Yea, as if the Hussein would ever cover up for our military.


Not to mention this whole piece is written by a piece of shit named Kim Myong Chol, a buddy of the tyrant Kim Jong-il who frequently spews propaganda on his behalf.

Yea, real unbiased source there slapnuts.
 
i call bullshit, sarge. establishing air superiority over north korea wont be like iraq. in itself, that presents jeopardy to our placing three carrier groups in the region. moreover, eliminating NKs ground effectiveness will require more than bombing, cruise missiles and shelling. whatever administration you and neubarth would support which would go riding into conflict with north korea would be plumb stupid, not brave, not respectable.

an idiot like mccain, for example, is likely to blow his load prematurely. would that please you war mongers? what purpose benefiting the US or south korea would conflict serve?

this situation provides the standing which could bring to bare greater diplomatic leverage against the north, where countries on the fence with their position relative to the situation (like china) could be pressed to realize their misplaced allegiance. it might be yours and neubarth's military background that makes your positions so inept when it comes to strategy and diplomacy, i dont know the cause. but like the wars in iraq and afghanistan, diplomatic currency is not best spent forcing the hands of your citizens and allies into conflict. it takes a dense skull not to come away from the last decade with out a clue in that respect.
The issue is one of projection of presence and of potential power ashore. I never said a thing about attacking North Korea with the Carrier Battle Groups. I just said that we could control the skies over North Korea within 72 hours. Believe me that is all it would take. Our Navy and Marine corp pilots are the best in the world (forgive me Israel, but your pilots do not take off and land on moving ships.) That potential of total war being just off of the coast would be enough to get North Korea from attacking South Korea should things start to flare up. Obama needs to learn how to use the Navy in a situation like this.

i think diplomacy is the tool for this situation at this juncture, neubarth. i fail to see the benefit of doing what you say. all that i see coming from a mobilization of the fleet, is harms way. it is not that north korea isn't aware that we can project nuclear power from kansas or las vegas. we could posture china thusly with the taiwan thing, which this administration has done, but if we engage in a wargames demo near the northern line, this shit has a higher chance of escalating if another ship is damaged or lost, or a submarine from the north(?) is seen to be observing. why bother.

the UN could either be indebted to us for asking our support, or we could be indebted to the world for asking theirs, like clinton and the bushs preffered. i disagree with this latter course of action in light of our being encumbered in two other theaters and in a recession. i couldn't think why we would do it in a peacetime boom, really.

your presumption that naval-led action against north korea today will go down like north vietnam in '72 or argentina in '82 is misguided. as it is brittain lost a couple boats themselves. why spend $300million moving carriers around korea, and risk hundreds of millions more in equipment, and the invaluable staff without affording any real diplomatic value?
 

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