Norman Finkelstein on BDS

[rylah]

I enjoy listening to people who really think by themselves, even if their conclusions differ from mine.When a critic presents his position in a balanced manner, without manipulation, slogans - it really gives motivation to listen and try to comprehend.

Usually when Finkelstein talks about big topics like the 'Holocaust industry' or the 'Occupation' - he draws me away by being so detached from his Jewish roots in his idealism (and in the middle of the video I've found exactly why).
So I just wanted to share an interesting interview that surprised me, because I heard a voice of an independent thinker I can appreciate, in spite of the fact we hold opposing views.
(SPOILER:he actually supports BDS)

short version


FULL version:

 

[MisterBeale]

Thank you.

Neither side has every wanted a solution.

Israel has the power, the Arabs have the numbers. It is at an eternal stalemate.

The Arabs do not have the power to force their side to victory, and the only way the Israeli's can force their side to victory is by doing exactly what the Nazi's did during WWII.

There is, and will be, for several generations, no foreseeable solution. Forever.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"The law says that Israel is a state."

Anybody have a link for that?

 

[MisterBeale]

"The law says that Israel is a state."

Anybody have a kink for that?

United Nations Official Document

Finally showing your true colors eh?

You can't rewrite history or deny what has happened. Many innocent women and children should not have to suffer because of the short shortsightedness of foolish old Zionists.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"The law says that Israel is a state."

Anybody have a kink for that?

United Nations Official Document

Finally showing your true colors eh?

You can't rewrite history or deny what has happened. Many innocent women and children should not have to suffer because of the short shortsightedness of foolish old Zionists.

I don't rewrite history.

Requests that (a)The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;​

Resolution 181 was a non binding request for the Security Council to act. The Security Council never implemented resolution 181. It was a dead letter.

 

[rylah]

Thank you.

Neither side has every wanted a solution.

Israel has the power, the Arabs have the numbers. It is at an eternal stalemate.

The Arabs do not have the power to force their side to victory, and the only way the Israeli's can force their side to victory is by doing exactly what the Nazi's did during WWII.

There is, and will be, for several generations, no foreseeable solution. Forever.

Well this comparison to WWII is irrelevant, in my opinion it's simply a limited western view, a projection of western models on the ME.
While the definite majority of people in Israel, left and right oppose such notions, nationalistic voices are of course heard.
Basically I try to look at already successful models in the ME, like Qatar and UAE where the delicate balance between different tribes is held and benefits all. Thinking in this direction can benefit both the Palestinians and Israelis while building close economic relationship.

 

[Hollie]

"The law says that Israel is a state."

Anybody have a kink for that?

United Nations Official Document

Finally showing your true colors eh?

You can't rewrite history or deny what has happened. Many innocent women and children should not have to suffer because of the short shortsightedness of foolish old Zionists.

I don't rewrite history.

Requests that (a)The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;​

Resolution 181 was a non binding request for the Security Council to act. The Security Council never implemented resolution 181. It was a dead letter.

There is a thread specifically designated for your endless whining about Israeli statehood.

 

[rylah]

"The law says that Israel is a state."

Anybody have a kink for that?

United Nations Official Document

Finally showing your true colors eh?

You can't rewrite history or deny what has happened. Many innocent women and children should not have to suffer because of the short shortsightedness of foolish old Zionists.

I don't rewrite history.

Requests that (a)The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;​

Resolution 181 was a non binding request for the Security Council to act. The Security Council never implemented resolution 181. It was a dead letter.

So can You present Your position clearly in regards to this interview -

Do You want Israel gone?

 

[MisterBeale]

Thank you.

Neither side has every wanted a solution.

Israel has the power, the Arabs have the numbers. It is at an eternal stalemate.

The Arabs do not have the power to force their side to victory, and the only way the Israeli's can force their side to victory is by doing exactly what the Nazi's did during WWII.

There is, and will be, for several generations, no foreseeable solution. Forever.

Well this comparison to WWII is irrelevant, in my opinion it's simply a limited western view, a projection of western models on the ME.
While the definite majority of people in Israel, left and right oppose such notions, nationalistic voices are of course heard.
Basically I try to look at already successful models in the ME, like Qatar and UAE where the delicate balance between different tribes is held and benefits all. Thinking in this direction can benefit both the Palestinians and Israelis while building close economic relationship.

In Qatar and UAE the tribes are much closer in religion and culture.

The holy books of the differing tribes in Levant tell their respective tribes that nothing less than death is acceptable to the opposing people.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"The law says that Israel is a state."

Anybody have a kink for that?

United Nations Official Document

Finally showing your true colors eh?

You can't rewrite history or deny what has happened. Many innocent women and children should not have to suffer because of the short shortsightedness of foolish old Zionists.

I don't rewrite history.

Requests that (a)The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;​

Resolution 181 was a non binding request for the Security Council to act. The Security Council never implemented resolution 181. It was a dead letter.

There is a thread specifically designated for your endless whining about Israeli statehood.

I was quoting the OP.

Finkelstein claims that Israel is legally a state. I think he is basing his opinion on hearsay.

 

[Shusha]

If it looks like a State and acts like a State and was accepted into the UN like a State, enters into treaties like a State, has international diplomatic relations like a State, has a government like a State, chances are excellent that it is a State.

 

[P F Tinmore]

If it looks like a State and acts like a State and was accepted into the UN like a State, enters into treaties like a State, has international diplomatic relations like a State, has a government like a State, chances are excellent that it is a State.

You are missing something.

 

[Shusha]

If it looks like a State and acts like a State and was accepted into the UN like a State, enters into treaties like a State, has international diplomatic relations like a State, has a government like a State, chances are excellent that it is a State.

You are missing something.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders. Disputed borders do not unmake a State. Territorial secession does not unmake a State.

Canada has disputed borders with the US and Denmark, as well as claims to the Arctic which are disputed by other nations. (Santa is OURS, dammit!) This does not unmake Canada as a State.

Arguing that Israel is not a State is silly.

 

[P F Tinmore]

If it looks like a State and acts like a State and was accepted into the UN like a State, enters into treaties like a State, has international diplomatic relations like a State, has a government like a State, chances are excellent that it is a State.

You are missing something.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders. Disputed borders do not unmake a State. Territorial secession does not unmake a State.

Canada has disputed borders with the US and Denmark, as well as claims to the Arctic which are disputed by other nations. (Santa is OURS, dammit!) This does not unmake Canada as a State.

Arguing that Israel is not a State is silly.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders.

And the question has been ducked every time like you are doing again now.

 

[MJB12741]

If it looks like a State and acts like a State and was accepted into the UN like a State, enters into treaties like a State, has international diplomatic relations like a State, has a government like a State, chances are excellent that it is a State.

You are missing something.

So true. Israel doesn't quack like a duck.

 

[Hollie]

If it looks like a State and acts like a State and was accepted into the UN like a State, enters into treaties like a State, has international diplomatic relations like a State, has a government like a State, chances are excellent that it is a State.

You are missing something.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders. Disputed borders do not unmake a State. Territorial secession does not unmake a State.

Canada has disputed borders with the US and Denmark, as well as claims to the Arctic which are disputed by other nations. (Santa is OURS, dammit!) This does not unmake Canada as a State.

Arguing that Israel is not a State is silly.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders.

And the question has been ducked every time like you are doing again now.

You poor, dear. You desperately cling to your false belief that the State of Israel does not exist. I'm afraid it's a function of your insensate Jew hatreds and an overwhelming need to deny that Israel is a successful society built on a Western model of government and a first world economy.

I read nothing in your comments which speaks to issues other than your personal hatreds and prejudices. You labor under the assumption that exeryone except moslems bear sole responsibility for every calamity that Moslems self-create. Yet, you don’t care to speak of the obstructionist and retrograde nature of Arab-Islamist societies which continually are their own worst enemies. Much of the world shakes its collective head in disbelief at the cartoon characters that the Islamist Middle have become.

 

[P F Tinmore]

If it looks like a State and acts like a State and was accepted into the UN like a State, enters into treaties like a State, has international diplomatic relations like a State, has a government like a State, chances are excellent that it is a State.

You are missing something.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders. Disputed borders do not unmake a State. Territorial secession does not unmake a State.

Canada has disputed borders with the US and Denmark, as well as claims to the Arctic which are disputed by other nations. (Santa is OURS, dammit!) This does not unmake Canada as a State.

Arguing that Israel is not a State is silly.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders.

And the question has been ducked every time like you are doing again now.

You poor, dear. You desperately cling to your false belief that the State of Israel does not exist. I'm afraid it's a function of your insensate Jew hatreds and an overwhelming need to deny that Israel is a successful society built on a Western model of government and a first world economy.

I read nothing in your comments which speaks to issues other than your personal hatreds and prejudices. You labor under the assumption that exeryone except moslems bear sole responsibility for every calamity that Moslems self-create. Yet, you don’t care to speak of the obstructionist and retrograde nature of Arab-Islamist societies which continually are their own worst enemies. Much of the world shakes its collective head in disbelief at the cartoon characters that the Islamist Middle have become.

 

[Hollie]

If it looks like a State and acts like a State and was accepted into the UN like a State, enters into treaties like a State, has international diplomatic relations like a State, has a government like a State, chances are excellent that it is a State.

You are missing something.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders. Disputed borders do not unmake a State. Territorial secession does not unmake a State.

Canada has disputed borders with the US and Denmark, as well as claims to the Arctic which are disputed by other nations. (Santa is OURS, dammit!) This does not unmake Canada as a State.

Arguing that Israel is not a State is silly.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders.

And the question has been ducked every time like you are doing again now.

You poor, dear. You desperately cling to your false belief that the State of Israel does not exist. I'm afraid it's a function of your insensate Jew hatreds and an overwhelming need to deny that Israel is a successful society built on a Western model of government and a first world economy.

I read nothing in your comments which speaks to issues other than your personal hatreds and prejudices. You labor under the assumption that exeryone except moslems bear sole responsibility for every calamity that Moslems self-create. Yet, you don’t care to speak of the obstructionist and retrograde nature of Arab-Islamist societies which continually are their own worst enemies. Much of the world shakes its collective head in disbelief at the cartoon characters that the Islamist Middle have become.

I'll admit to having a little fun at your expense.

While you stagger and reel and seek to evade when your specious opinions are shown to be false and contrived, others reading this thread will certainly recognize that you have retreated to silly cartoons because you really have nothing of substance to offer.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You are missing something.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders. Disputed borders do not unmake a State. Territorial secession does not unmake a State.

Canada has disputed borders with the US and Denmark, as well as claims to the Arctic which are disputed by other nations. (Santa is OURS, dammit!) This does not unmake Canada as a State.

Arguing that Israel is not a State is silly.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders.

And the question has been ducked every time like you are doing again now.

You poor, dear. You desperately cling to your false belief that the State of Israel does not exist. I'm afraid it's a function of your insensate Jew hatreds and an overwhelming need to deny that Israel is a successful society built on a Western model of government and a first world economy.

I read nothing in your comments which speaks to issues other than your personal hatreds and prejudices. You labor under the assumption that exeryone except moslems bear sole responsibility for every calamity that Moslems self-create. Yet, you don’t care to speak of the obstructionist and retrograde nature of Arab-Islamist societies which continually are their own worst enemies. Much of the world shakes its collective head in disbelief at the cartoon characters that the Islamist Middle have become.

I'll admit to having a little fun at your expense.

While you stagger and reel and seek to evade when your specious opinions are shown to be false and contrived, others reading this thread will certainly recognize that you have retreated to silly cartoons because you really have nothing of substance to offer.

While you stagger and reel and seek to evade when your specious opinions are shown to be false and contrived,

When has that ever happened?

Link?

 

[Shusha]

If it looks like a State and acts like a State and was accepted into the UN like a State, enters into treaties like a State, has international diplomatic relations like a State, has a government like a State, chances are excellent that it is a State.

You are missing something.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders. Disputed borders do not unmake a State. Territorial secession does not unmake a State.

Canada has disputed borders with the US and Denmark, as well as claims to the Arctic which are disputed by other nations. (Santa is OURS, dammit!) This does not unmake Canada as a State.

Arguing that Israel is not a State is silly.

Oh, please. We've been through this a million times. Israel does have a defined territory and borders.

And the question has been ducked every time like you are doing again now.

Oh please. Rocco and I have been over this with you a hundred times. The truly ironic thing is that you agree with me. You agree that since the territory in question has NEVER had an internal border -- there is only the boundaries as laid out in the treaties and mandates -- that the entire territory is one unit.

But you are trying to argue that something prevents Israel from being a State even though it acts in ALL ways as a State. Its an utterly ridiculous argument.