None of our founding fathers said the pledge of alliegance.

thanks, now I understand more of why the American Nazi party was strong in the USA prior to WW2.
They had grown up giving that salute.

Eugenics and social engineering was also popular in the US prior to WWII. Henry Ford and most of the uber elite robber barons were financing eugenics policy including Planned Parenthood which began as a eugenics program sponsored by Henry Ford and Prescott Bush.

We were a nazi fascist nation complete with our own fascist coup attempt:

The Business Plot (also the Plot Against FDR and the White House Putsch) was an alleged political conspiracy in 1933. Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler claimed that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization and use it in a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler as leader of that organization. In 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack-Dickstein Congressional committee on these claims.[1] In the opinion of the committee, these allegations were credible.

Business Plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

another person that knows history!

when the nazi eugenicists went on trial for war crimes they were honestly confused as to why americans were part of the prosecuting team since, as they stated, they based the entire nazi program around the american eugenics system
 
thanks, now I understand more of why the American Nazi party was strong in the USA prior to WW2.
They had grown up giving that salute.

Eugenics and social engineering was also popular in the US prior to WWII. Henry Ford and most of the uber elite robber barons were financing eugenics policy including Planned Parenthood which began as a eugenics program sponsored by Henry Ford and Prescott Bush.

We were a nazi fascist nation complete with our own fascist coup attempt:

The Business Plot (also the Plot Against FDR and the White House Putsch) was an alleged political conspiracy in 1933. Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler claimed that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization and use it in a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler as leader of that organization. In 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack-Dickstein Congressional committee on these claims.[1] In the opinion of the committee, these allegations were credible.

Business Plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another interesting note of that time period is that WE sold Japan a large portion of the scrap metal they later turned into bombs against our own troops. Businessmen before the attack on Pearl Harbor thought working with the Japanese was lucrative.
 
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I love this republic, but I don't subscribe to mindless nationalism or right wing conformity.

Is anyone forcing you to say the Pledge of Allegance?

I'm not a huge fan of constantly Pledging Allegance, as if you don't, you may be inclined to sell strategic secrets about US assets to the Soviet Union, but if others wanna get off by doing it, then what's the harm?

The harm of mindless nationalism? See Nazi Germany, fascist Italy

You loose so much when you don't read enough.

Mindless nationalism is not what the thing was about. Italy, Spain and Germany had been kicked around for centuries , and Poland was divided and absorbed because of insane levels of particularism. Nationalist socialism ( and Nationalist liberalism) were a revolutionary proletarian response to embracing the whole nation as brothers, rather than seeing yourself as little more than the serf of some local lord.

Embracing yourself as part of the nation, and not being over concerned about particular rights that would lead to the destruction of the whole.

The history of Poland, where the local lordlings had a liberium veto in the Sejm resulted in Poland being so weak that they couldn't move at all whenever they were threatened. The Thirty Years wars in Germany, where everyone fought about local issues with each other on German soil and trashed the german countryside were because each German lordling was more concerned about his rights than the security of Germany. Up until Bismarck and Couvour, Germany and Italy were the doormats of Europe. Despite the fact Germans had very good armies, they mostly used them on each other. A united Germany started using German armies on the rest of Europe.

Back to the topic at hand, The pledge is a cool thing. We pledge allegiance to the ideals fo the republic. The concepts of liberty and justice for all. In 1890, that was revolutionary. And do you really oppose the idea of one nation united in the ideals of liberty and justice? What is the point of France but bad wine and worse cheese? What is the point of Germany but jackboots and Sauerkraut? All there is to Japan is Sanrio and Bushido. America stands for something. And we should be proud of that.
 
Do you suppose the right wingers raised hell when FDR banned the zeig heil salute for the pledge?
 
Why do you almost always try to dumb threads down and divert them from their core message?

Are you a sociopathic propagandist, a narcissist or just a clown?

The pledge is a socialist ploy, historically proven. It has verifiable roots in feudalist tradition. It is not represented in the constitution and it is a form of self brainwashing, or mass hypnosis.

How can you deem that as "no harm"?

You don't get much sex, do you.

You wish you had my sex life, kid.

Sampson is always fixated on sex. Kinda indicates to me he is a youngster who has not got any yet.

but I have no idea where his squidophelia came from.
 
thanks, now I understand more of why the American Nazi party was strong in the USA prior to WW2.
They had grown up giving that salute.

Eugenics and social engineering was also popular in the US prior to WWII. Henry Ford and most of the uber elite robber barons were financing eugenics policy including Planned Parenthood which began as a eugenics program sponsored by Henry Ford and Prescott Bush.

We were a nazi fascist nation complete with our own fascist coup attempt:

The Business Plot (also the Plot Against FDR and the White House Putsch) was an alleged political conspiracy in 1933. Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler claimed that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization and use it in a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler as leader of that organization. In 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack-Dickstein Congressional committee on these claims.[1] In the opinion of the committee, these allegations were credible.

Business Plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another interesting note of that time period is that WE sold Japan a large portion of the scrap metal they later turned into bombs against our own troops. Businessmen before the attack on Pearl Harbor thought working with the Japanese was lucrative.

we also sold AND manufactured almost all of the equipment used by germany to rebuild leading up to WWII after they got owned in WWI. as usual our shady businessmen profitted on both sides of the war without breaking a sweat.

the bush dynasty got its initial power and funding through helping the nazi regime and as I stated before, prescott bush (gw's granddad) and his buddies only stopped when congress got involved.
 
It was ours before the Germans stole it.

And the replacement is way cooler.

I don't know if anyone didn't like it. You will have to research that an find out
 
We can say the pledge and not blindly support the President. Because the pledge is to the flag of a nation who's government is We the people, Not one man. When you say the pledge you are not praising the president, or even supporting him. I look at it as pledging to protect, defend, and love the People and constitution that make America, America.

Sure we could say the pledge for all those reasons.

But none of those are the reason why the pledge was institutionalized.

You do understand brainwashing and mass hypnosis, right?
 
just like sadaam, we only went to war with hilter when our businessmen couldn't profit from him anymore
 
Another interesting note of that time period is that WE sold Japan a large portion of the scrap metal they later turned into bombs against our own troops. Businessmen before the attack on Pearl Harbor thought working with the Japanese was lucrative.

tru dat.
 
I wonder why Mr. historian Beck has never educated his flock on the actual history of the pledge?
 
One little difference between those kids and the Nazis.

Those kids are saluting a flag. Hailing a Nation. The Nazis were saluting a man, and a Political Party.

There is little difference between German nationals following Hitler into invading Poland and mindless nationals here following Bush into invading Iraq.

How does saying the pledge have anything to do with Mindlessly following Bush into Iraq?

We can say the pledge and not blindly support the President. Because the pledge is to the flag of a nation who's government is We the people, Not one man. When you say the pledge you are not praising the president, or even supporting him. I look at it as pledging to protect, defend, and love the People and constitution that make America, America.

Those are valid reasons to cite the pledge. But that is you, not everyone else. The mindless following of Bush into Iraq can only occur when mindless nationalism is prevalent.
 
One little difference between those kids and the Nazis.

Those kids are saluting a flag. Hailing a Nation. The Nazis were saluting a man, and a Political Party.

There is little difference between German nationals following Hitler into invading Poland and mindless nationals here following Bush into invading Iraq.

How does saying the pledge have anything to do with Mindlessly following Bush into Iraq?

We can say the pledge and not blindly support the President. Because the pledge is to the flag of a nation who's government is We the people, Not one man. When you say the pledge you are not praising the president, or even supporting him. I look at it as pledging to protect, defend, and love the People and constitution that make America, America.

Hmm I recall being called a terrorist by our president for not supporting him.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpPABLW6F_A"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpPABLW6F_A[/ame]
 
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I wonder why Mr. historian Beck has never educated his flock on the actual history of the pledge?

me too! especially since a REAL socialist created it with the intent of unifying the country in order to make installation of a dictatorship easier
 
There is little difference between German nationals following Hitler into invading Poland and mindless nationals here following Bush into invading Iraq.

How does saying the pledge have anything to do with Mindlessly following Bush into Iraq?

We can say the pledge and not blindly support the President. Because the pledge is to the flag of a nation who's government is We the people, Not one man. When you say the pledge you are not praising the president, or even supporting him. I look at it as pledging to protect, defend, and love the People and constitution that make America, America.

Those are valid reasons to cite the pledge. But that is you, not everyone else. The mindless following of Bush into Iraq can only occur when mindless nationalism is prevalent.

I agree, I just do not think the Pledge is mindless Nationalism. It's a pledge to the Idea of America and constitutional Government. Not to the State. IMO anyways.
 

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