None of our founding fathers said the pledge of alliegance.

[uscitizen]

But those pledges were not THE pledge of alliegance which is the topic of this thread.

Men have pledged feality and such to kings and governments since before the dark ages. but that is not the topic of this thread.

 

[The T]

But those pledges were not THE pledge of alliegance which is the topic of this thread.

Men have pledged feality and such to kings and governments since before the dark ages. but that is not the topic of this thread.

Since they are both the same? I think your thread title and intent is Bogus...as are you.

 

[Navy1960]

Well usa, what is a pledge if it is not a loyality oath? is it not? Here is an example of one from that time period.

"I DO hereby Certify, That Frederick Shenkle of Philad[phi]a Leather dresser Hath voluntarily taken and subscribed the AFFIRMATION of Allegiance and Fidelity, as directed by an ACT of General Assembly of Pennsylvania: passed the 13th day of June, A.D. 1777. Witness may hand and seal, the 25th day of June A.D. 1777."
Revolutionary War Loyalty Oath Printed by John Dunlap. ... (Total: 1 Items) Military & Patriotic: Revolutionary War

Article Two, Section One, Clause Eight:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

My point here is simple, the pledge is nothiing new to our nations history it's quite the contrary and while yes it's true , it did not come about till around 1892 and in its current form after that, the fact still remains to pledge ones oath to a nation or even , a written loyality oath is a very old and well established concept.

 

[The T]

Well usa, what is a pledge if it is not a loyality oath? is it not? Here is an example of one from that time period.

"I DO hereby Certify, That Frederick Shenkle of Philad[phi]a Leather dresser Hath voluntarily taken and subscribed the AFFIRMATION of Allegiance and Fidelity, as directed by an ACT of General Assembly of Pennsylvania: passed the 13th day of June, A.D. 1777. Witness may hand and seal, the 25th day of June A.D. 1777."
Revolutionary War Loyalty Oath Printed by John Dunlap. ... (Total: 1 Items) Military & Patriotic: Revolutionary War

Article Two, Section One, Clause Eight:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

My point here is simple, the pledge is nothiing new to our nations history it's quite the contrary and while yes it's true , it did not come about till around 1892 and in its current form after that, the fact still remains to pledge ones oath to a nation or even , a written loyality oath is a very old and well established concept.

It's a little practiced notion these days called HONOR. When is honor practiced among thieves?

 

[uscitizen]

Again OT.
That is millitary oaths not the pledge of alliegance.

 

[The T]

Again OT.
That is millitary oaths not the pledge of alliegance.

What is an oath but a pledge? It's called honor. Something you apparently lack with your bildge.

 

[Navy1960]

Loyalty Oaths administered by colonial, revolutionary, confederate, federal, state, and municipal governments have asked pledgers to swear allegiance to the governing bodies. The contents of such oaths have varied, reflecting the political climates of their times, and often have been required only of particular individuals or groups, such as public officials and employees, persons feared to be subversives, residents of Confederate states, and educators. The best-known loyalty oath is the "Pledge of Allegiance," recited by schoolchildren and at many public events. Francis Bellamy wrote the original version of the Pledge of Allegiance in 1892. His version read, "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Congress's addition of the words "under God" in 1954 came under attack by those objecting that it violated the separation of government and religion
Loyalty oath: West's Encyclopedia of American Law (Full Article) from Answers.com

At the time when George Washington, Thomas Jefferson took the Oath of office, they were not in the military my friend. As I said earlier, the pledge even during the time of Bellamy would have not been unfamilier to the likes of Washington,Jefferson, and Adams as all of these men had taken some form of loyality oath as well and done so many times.

 

[uscitizen]

Again fact is Jefferson nor any of our founding fathers ever said THE Pledge of Alliegiance.

I hope to have educated a few on the history of the Pledge.

so What should happen to those who say the pledge and then violate their "oath"?
ie try and deny liberty to all Americans.
Or violate the flag with autographs or somesuch?

 

[loosecannon]

Well usa, what is a pledge if it is not a loyality oath? is it not? Here is an example of one from that time period.

"I DO hereby Certify, That Frederick Shenkle of Philad[phi]a Leather dresser Hath voluntarily taken and subscribed the AFFIRMATION of Allegiance and Fidelity, as directed by an ACT of General Assembly of Pennsylvania: passed the 13th day of June, A.D. 1777. Witness may hand and seal, the 25th day of June A.D. 1777."
Revolutionary War Loyalty Oath Printed by John Dunlap. ... (Total: 1 Items) Military & Patriotic: Revolutionary War

Article Two, Section One, Clause Eight:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

My point here is simple, the pledge is nothiing new to our nations history it's quite the contrary and while yes it's true , it did not come about till around 1892 and in its current form after that, the fact still remains to pledge ones oath to a nation or even , a written loyality oath is a very old and well established concept.

...dating back to feudal oaths:

Feudalism is a political and military system between a feudal aristocrat (a lord or liege), and his vassals. Feudalism flourished from the ninth century to the fifteenth century. In its most classic sense, feudalism refers to the Medieval European political system composed of a set of reciprocal legal and military obligations among the warrior nobility, revolving around the three key concepts of lords, vassals, and fiefs. Although derived from the Latin word feodum (fief), then in use, the term feudalism and the system it describes were not conceived of as a formal political system by the people living in the Medieval Period.

Three primary elements characterized feudalism: lords, vassals, and fiefs; the group of feudalism can be seen in how these three elements fit together. A lord granted land (a fief) to his vassals. In exchange for the fief, the vassal would provide military service to the lord. The obligations and relations between lord, vassal and fief form the basis of feudalism. Before a lord could grant land (a fief) to someone, he had to make that person a vassal. This was done at a formal and symbolic ceremony called a commendation ceremony composed of the two-part act of homage and oath of fealty. During homage, the lord and vassal entered a contract in which the vassal promised to fight for the lord at his command. Fealty comes from the Latin fidelitas and denotes the fidelity owed by a vassal to his feudal lord. "Fealty" also refers to an oath that more explicitly reinforces the commitments of the vassal made during homage. Such an oath follows homage. Once the commendation was complete, the lord and vassal were now in a feudal relationship with agreed-upon mutual obligations to one another. The vassal's principal obligation to the lord was to "aid", or military service. Using whatever equipment the vassal could obtain by virtue of the revenues from the fief, the vassal was responsible to answer to calls to military service on behalf of the lord. This security of military help was the primary reason the lord entered into the feudal relationship. In addition, the vassal sometimes had to fulfill other obligations to the lord. One of those obligations was to provide the lord with "counsel", so that if the lord faced a major decision, such as whether or not to go to war, he would summon all his vassals and hold a council. The vassal may have been required to yield a certain amount of his farm's output to his lord. The vassal was also sometimes required to grind his own wheat and bake his own bread in the mills and ovens owned and taxed by his lord.

Feudalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Cecilie1200]

Imagine how unamerican they were.

Am I alone in being thoroughly tired of leftists trying to play "Cleverest Guy In The Room" on fewer than a dozen brain cells?

I realize that your familiarity with patriotism - not to mention logic - is extremely shaky, but you shouldn't need me to explain to you that not saying a pledge that DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST AT THE TIME is not comparable to CHOOSING not to say a pledge that's been in use for decades.

Epic fail. Stop straining those poor, lone brain cells to do work they're outnumbered for.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm confused....what is the point of this thread again?

To make a laughably pathetic attempt to defend unpatriotic behavior by hiding behind the Founding Fathers.

And possibly a fiendish attempt to kill conservatives by making them laugh themselves to death. I'm not sure about that one.

 

[uscitizen]

So the pledge is beyond the intent of the constitution or the founding fathers?
I don't remember seeing it mentioned in the constitution, it must therefore be a progressive thing.

 

[The T]

Loyalty Oaths administered by colonial, revolutionary, confederate, federal, state, and municipal governments have asked pledgers to swear allegiance to the governing bodies. The contents of such oaths have varied, reflecting the political climates of their times, and often have been required only of particular individuals or groups, such as public officials and employees, persons feared to be subversives, residents of Confederate states, and educators. The best-known loyalty oath is the "Pledge of Allegiance," recited by schoolchildren and at many public events. Francis Bellamy wrote the original version of the Pledge of Allegiance in 1892. His version read, "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Congress's addition of the words "under God" in 1954 came under attack by those objecting that it violated the separation of government and religion
Loyalty oath: West's Encyclopedia of American Law (Full Article) from Answers.com

At the time when George Washington, Thomas Jefferson took the Oath of office, they were not in the military my friend. As I said earlier, the pledge even during the time of Bellamy would have not been unfamilier to the likes of Washington,Jefferson, and Adams as all of these men had taken some form of loyality oath as well and done so many times.

No dispute. And it is a badge of honor among the citizens. Again as I stated earlier? Honor is fast becoming a lost practice, and a reflection of where we're headed as a society.

 

[The T]

Imagine how unamerican they were.

Am I alone in being thoroughly tired of leftists trying to play "Cleverest Guy In The Room" on fewer than a dozen brain cells?

I realize that your familiarity with patriotism - not to mention logic - is extremely shaky, but you shouldn't need me to explain to you that not saying a pledge that DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST AT THE TIME is not comparable to CHOOSING not to say a pledge that's been in use for decades.

Epic fail. Stop straining those poor, lone brain cells to do work they're outnumbered for.

He can't help it. He thought he was being clever. But Honor has no meaning to the OP or he wouldn't have posted the tripe disguised as genius.

 

[The T]

So the pledge is beyond the intent of the constitution or the founding fathers?

Whom said that? Or was/is that an assumption on your part?

I don't remember seeing it mentioned in the constitution, it must therefore be a progressive thing.

But honor is...which an oath is, which a pledge is...you seem to miss this point. Why?

 

[Bfgrn]

to educate those who think that we have always had the pledge and in it's current form.

I also think it is pretty funny that the anti socialists just love something written by a self avowed socialist.

Don't forget the Bellamy salute

 

[The T]

to educate those who think that we have always had the pledge and in it's current form.

I also think it is pretty funny that the anti socialists just love something written by a self avowed socialist.

Don't forget the Bellamy salute

So saying the pledge is akin to saluting as the Nazi's did when the pledge speaks of LIBERTY and Justice?

Really?

You are on something...seriously.

WHY do you hate this Republic?

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Idiotic OP.

 

[loosecannon]

So the pledge is beyond the intent of the constitution or the founding fathers?
I don't remember seeing it mentioned in the constitution, it must therefore be a progressive thing.

it's a feudalism, fascism, mind control thing. A self brainwashing exercise for sleeple. It's the mantra for the dark side of nationalism.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgYEuJ5u1K0[/ame]

 

[Samson]

Imagine how unamerican they were.

They didn't have Obamacare either, so that must mean that's unAmerican as well!

You lose!

Indoor plumbing was a little questionable too.