Non-White Millennials Stun Teachers' Unions: Huge Majority Favor School Vouchers

[BuckToothMoron]

Sorry you wasted your time and money on a masters degree on school vouchers (didn't know there was any accredited program for such a degree). It is only free in the same respect that attending public schools is free. The money follows the student, and the thus has a net zero effect on the tax payer. May haps you should get a refund on that masters degree you paid for.

You're so pathetically ignorant. Everyone that knows anything about vouchers knows they are usually much cheaper than sending a kid to a public school. Vouchers save taxpayers money.

Dial it back and pull your panties out of your vagina there bullet boi. I am in favor of the voucher system. My post was not intended, nor did it declare vouchers more expensive to the tax payers. I was responding to the Admiral who said they were "free". I am just pointing out that vouchers are typically funded by diverting money from a public school to a coupon or voucher for a student to spend at a private school.

But since you brought it up- go ahead and get off your ass and post your source/link that shows they are "much cheaper" . Waiting......

 

[Correll]

Paying attention Republicans?

Non-White Millennials Stun Teachers' Unions: Huge Majority Favor School Vouchers

The majority support for limiting speech is a disaster for this nation.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Sorry you wasted your time and money on a masters degree on school vouchers (didn't know there was any accredited program for such a degree). It is only free in the same respect that attending public schools is free. The money follows the student, and the thus has a net zero effect on the tax payer. May haps you should get a refund on that masters degree you paid for.

You're so pathetically ignorant. Everyone that knows anything about vouchers knows they are usually much cheaper than sending a kid to a public school. Vouchers save taxpayers money.

Dial it back and pull your panties out of your vagina there bullet boi. I am in favor of the voucher system. My post was not intended, nor did it declare vouchers more expensive to the tax payers. I was responding to the Admiral who said they were "free". I am just pointing out that vouchers are typically funded by diverting money from a public school to a coupon or voucher for a student to spend at a private school.

But since you brought it up- go ahead and get off your ass and post your source/link that shows they are "much cheaper" . Waiting......

Your lack of reading ability is astounding. You agree with me on the funding of vouchers, yet claim I am the stupid one.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I think you are mischaraterizing the voucher system. This video will help you.

No. You obviously did not pay attention to the video. Try again.

I have a Master's degree in this topic. You are even misinterpreting the pro voucher site where you found this.

Sorry you wasted your time and money on a masters degree on school vouchers (didn't know there was any accredited program for such a degree). It is only free in the same respect that attending public schools is free. The money follows the student, and the thus has a net zero effect on the tax payer. May haps you should get a refund on that masters degree you paid for.

Your name is so appropriate. Vouchers are not paid the way you describe. A student receives a voucher for the cost of a public education usually at a private school. Vouchers have nothing to do with public schools.

Atta boi Admiral! Come up with a clever dig about how appropriate my screen name is. That is so original that I actually keep a running count of the number of funny and slick posters who use. Congrats sir, you are number 155 in the list of people who think they have said something original.

I see you could not answer. I put it in big red letters so you can see it.

Your video does not say what you claimed. Try watching it a few times and maybe it will sink in.

The money for a voucher comes from the same place as the money for the public schools, TAX PAYERS. You don't pay for your kids to attend public schools, and if your state has a voucher system, you can use that to pay for private (usually better) school. I'm sorry that you got booted out of the navy, became a underpaid, disgruntled public school teacher, and now spend your day thinking about how you got screwed. The reality is that our public education system is one of the most expensive, yet least effective in the industrialized world. The old and tired methods of liberals like you is getting pushed aside by people willing to think outside of the box. It's time for you old Libs to step aside and let the real movers and shakers run things. Bitter pill I know, so take it with a large gulp of water and humility.

 

[BulletProof]

Great plan! Let's bankrupt the system so your kids can get that elite private school education, that you cannot afford, conveniently paid for by the taxpayers.

The incompetent public teacher forgets that public schools are conveniently paid for by the taxpayers. And, that vouchers save taxpayers money because it costs less to give a student a voucher than to send him to a public school.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Great plan! Let's bankrupt the system so your kids can get that elite private school education, that you cannot afford, conveniently paid for by the taxpayers.

The incompetent public teacher forgets that public schools are conveniently paid for by the taxpayers. And, that vouchers save taxpayers money because it costs less to give a student a voucher than to send him to a public school.

That money is used for ALL students, not just the one taking the voucher. For every student taking a voucher there is a negative impact. If a few students are given vouchers, the school loses enough money to pay a teacher. That means all of those students are redistributed to other classes increasing class sizes, and reducing funding for elective classes such as music, arts, and PE programs.

The numbers used to justify your position are often wrong because it fails to use the correct data. In Florida, the actual amount of funding given to a school was about half what the advertised cost of educating a student actually was. That is the money the student gets for a voucher. A school bus with 40 kids on it costs the same as one with 44 on it. The term is called "economy of scale.

Voucher supporters tell a lot of lies when trying to sell their snake oil.

 

[BulletProof]

If a few students are given vouchers, the school loses enough money to pay a teacher. That means all of those students are redistributed to other classes increasing class sizes... A school bus with 40 kids on it costs the same as one with 44 on it. The term is called "economy of scale.

Fewer kids = larger classes? Fewer kids = fewer kids on bus?

I don't think your reasoning could be any more self-serving, if you tried.

Given that vouchers leave more money/student for the school, more likely class size shrinks faster than teacher cuts. Same for buses.

Economy of scale doesn't always apply. Given 10 buses with 44 kids, then there could be just 9 buses with 44 kids, if 44 kids leave.

When schools are complaining of over-crowding, your argument doesn't apply, except maybe to work against you.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If a few students are given vouchers, the school loses enough money to pay a teacher. That means all of those students are redistributed to other classes increasing class sizes... A school bus with 40 kids on it costs the same as one with 44 on it. The term is called "economy of scale.

Fewer kids = larger classes? Fewer kids = fewer kids on bus?

I don't think your reasoning could be any more self-serving, if you tried.

Given that vouchers leave more money/student for the school, more likely class size shrinks faster than teacher cuts. Same for buses.

Economy of scale doesn't always apply. Given 10 buses with 44 kids, then there could be just 9 buses with 44 kids, if 44 kids leave.

When schools are complaining of over-crowding, your argument doesn't apply, except maybe to work against you.

Let's just pretend for a moment that you have a brain and can reason using mathematics.

In a high school, there may be 150 students taking Algebra per teacher, with 6 classes of about 25 students each. If 10 students leave the school, you now have 140 students. One teacher that was teaching 150 students now has 140, but 140 students do not generate the revenue required to pay that teacher's salary and benefits, so you lay the teacher off. Those 140 students are then required to be taught by someone else. If there is only one other Algebra teacher, do you honestly expect them to teach their 150 students plus 140 more. Of course not, so every math teacher with other classes, now has to pick up one of the laid-off teacher's classes of students. Their 150 students are now crammed into classes of 30 students each because there are now only 5 periods left for them.

We fought overcrowding in the classroom by going from 6 classes a day to 7, but the contact time with the students was cut from about an hour to about 50 minutes. Students and parents complained because we could not give students time in class to work, so the amount of homework skyrocketed.

I started teaching in Florida in 1996. My classes averaged from 30-35 students each in 6 classes per day, so I taught about 200 students. In some schools, students were sitting on 5-gallon buckets turned upside down. Florida got smart and passed a law saying classes at the high school level could have no more than 24 students per class. Performance of the students jumped dramatically when they weren't stacked like cord wood in a classroom.

One of the many advantages that you see private schools advertise is low student-to-teacher ratios. If they start picking up voucher students, what happens to that statistic? Do you think they will hire those teachers laid off by public schools? Of course not! They can't afford them! Their class sizes will grow and many of those advantages they claim will magically disappear. It happens everywhere they try vouchers.

Do you think that check for a $4000 voucher will pay for private schools with tuitions that are double that and more?

How do these kids get to school? Is the single-mom going to drive 20 miles across town in rush-hour traffic to drop their little darlings off at school? Who picks the kid up at 3pm when Mom works until 5pm?

Jacksonville had a great magnet program where kids would ride buses to their local school and then spend about an hour riding to their magnet school in the inner city. When diesel prices started going up, the district eliminated the bus service to the schools. The magnet programs all but dried up. So do you think private schools are going to be able to make this work?

We had 19 high schools in Florida and under the voucher system any kid who attended a D or F graded school could attend any other school they wished with a transfer if the school was not overcrowded or they could attend private schools. Not a single private high school would accept voucher students because they knew the costs would not be worth it. The discipline problems, truancy, and poor academic performance of these kids made it an impossible choice. Also, they would lose tuition money by taking the voucher. It was a disaster from the word go. Fortunately, the state constitution made vouchers illegal and it did not withstand a court challenge. Smarter people prevailed when it was proposed to change the constitution to allow for vouchers. No one wanted them after the myriad of problems they caused.

Were there successes? I am sure there were a few, but the costs and pain of running the program simply was not worth it.

 

[BulletProof]

Let's just pretend for a moment that you have a brain and can reason using mathematics.

In a high school, there may be 150 students taking Algebra per teacher, with 6 classes of about 25 students each. If 10 students leave the school, you now have 140 students. One teacher that was teaching 150 students now has 140, but 140 students do not generate the revenue required to pay that teacher's salary and benefits, so you lay the teacher off.

Suppose the school gets $15,000/student. For a class of 25, that's $375,000. Really, you're pleading poverty for the school? Oh, boohoo, how are we going to pay for this teacher if one or two students leave the class?

We fought overcrowding in the classroom by going from 6 classes a day to 7, but the contact time with the students was cut from about an hour to about 50 minutes.

Hopefully 25 students leave so that you can go back to six classes per day.

One of the many advantages that you see private schools advertise is low student-to-teacher ratios. If they start picking up voucher students, what happens to that statistic? Do you think they will hire those teachers laid off by public schools? Of course not!

That's your real concern, job security. I mentioned earlier about the only way a teacher can be fired is for molesting students. But, there's another threat to teachers, not having their contracts renewed because of declining student enrollment in their department.

You could easily get a job at a private school. It just wouldn't pay as well. It would pay market value, not the artificially inflated value of a public school.

Do you think that check for a $4000 voucher will pay for private schools with tuitions that are double that and more?

A voucher should be high enough to cover a private education. Some schools get by on $4000, but only if they don't have to pay for the building. Any voucher ought to be at least 50% of what the public schools get (which nationally probably averages about $15,000).

We had 19 high schools in Florida and under the voucher system any kid who attended a D or F graded school could attend any other school they wished with a transfer if the school was not overcrowded or they could attend private schools. Not a single private high school would accept voucher students because they knew the costs would not be worth it.

Over 92000 kids in Florida go to private schools using tuition vouchers paid for by tax credits. It's a bit of a clunky system, but only because of fascist Democrats who try to block vouchers.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Let's just pretend for a moment that you have a brain and can reason using mathematics.

In a high school, there may be 150 students taking Algebra per teacher, with 6 classes of about 25 students each. If 10 students leave the school, you now have 140 students. One teacher that was teaching 150 students now has 140, but 140 students do not generate the revenue required to pay that teacher's salary and benefits, so you lay the teacher off.

Suppose the school gets $15,000/student. For a class of 25, that's $375,000. Really, you're pleading poverty for the school? Oh, boohoo, how are we going to pay for this teacher if one or two students leave the class?

We fought overcrowding in the classroom by going from 6 classes a day to 7, but the contact time with the students was cut from about an hour to about 50 minutes.

Hopefully 25 students leave so that you can go back to six classes per day.

One of the many advantages that you see private schools advertise is low student-to-teacher ratios. If they start picking up voucher students, what happens to that statistic? Do you think they will hire those teachers laid off by public schools? Of course not!

That's your real concern, job security. I mentioned earlier about the only way a teacher can be fired is for molesting students. But, there's another threat to teachers, not having their contracts renewed because of declining student enrollment in their department.

You could easily get a job at a private school. It just wouldn't pay as well. It would pay market value, not the artificially inflated value of a public school.

Do you think that check for a $4000 voucher will pay for private schools with tuitions that are double that and more?

A voucher should be high enough to cover a private education. Some schools get by on $4000, but only if they don't have to pay for the building. Any voucher ought to be at least 50% of what the public schools get (which nationally probably averages about $15,000).

We had 19 high schools in Florida and under the voucher system any kid who attended a D or F graded school could attend any other school they wished with a transfer if the school was not overcrowded or they could attend private schools. Not a single private high school would accept voucher students because they knew the costs would not be worth it.

Over 92000 kids in Florida go to private schools using tuition vouchers paid for by tax credits. It's a bit of a clunky system, but only because of fascist Democrats who try to block vouchers.

How can you type so much bullshit and never address what I say?

I am speaking from experience and you are basing everything on what you have "heard".

How well do you think that scholarship of less than $6000 will do against the local private Catholic high school where tuition is over $8000?

There are also numerous requirements for that voucher that prevents that vast majority of students from using them.

Educate yourself.

92,000 out of 2.5 million students is what percentage?

About 3 percent!

Wow!

 

[BulletProof]

I am speaking from experience and you are basing everything on what you have "heard".

How well do you think that scholarship of less than $6000 will do against the local private Catholic high school where tuition is over $8000?

There are also numerous requirements for that voucher that prevents that vast majority of students from using them.

Educate yourself.

92,000 out of 2.5 million students is what percentage?

About 3 percent!

Wow!

Knowing typical voucher rules, that means over 92,000 Florida students using vouchers that cover 100% of their tuition. And, those rules prohibiting the vast majority of students from using vouchers, they should be changed.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I am speaking from experience and you are basing everything on what you have "heard".

How well do you think that scholarship of less than $6000 will do against the local private Catholic high school where tuition is over $8000?

There are also numerous requirements for that voucher that prevents that vast majority of students from using them.

Educate yourself.

92,000 out of 2.5 million students is what percentage?

About 3 percent!

Wow!

Knowing typical voucher rules, that means over 92,000 Florida students using vouchers that cover 100% of their tuition. And, those rules prohibiting the vast majority of students from using vouchers, they should be changed.

That would require a change in the Florida state constitution and there is little to no support for that because of the questionable performance of the voucher students and almost complete failure of charter schools.