Nobodies unemployment rate has a 1.2 trillion dollar failed stimulus in it, but 1

[Dr.Drock]

Republicans vs Democrats on deficit spending



This should be a fun thread watching who can excuse their party's wild out of control spending the best.


(here's a hint, the next guy always spends more than the guy before him, no matter the party, no matter how fiscally liberal the guy before him was)

Dr dock
The thread is about the policy and the usu age of debt
to start with debt is a way of doing business. I work for a company who is bond able in the billions, net worth in the millions
with out that you cannot grow

i read a thread that stated Reagan had an UE rate of over 10%, like Obama had fended that off or done a better job
Ok
where is Reagan's UE rate after 24 months if he threw 1.2 trillion dollars at the way he would have created jobs the first few weeks of his admin after 24 months?
People compare apples to oranges on the left, most i know on the right do not
Now you can decide one is better than another, but doing it with leaving out that fact makes it look to me as one is trying to hide something

Yeah but a big part of debt is supposed to be.........paying it back. Something neither your hero Reagan or the democrat's hero Obama had/have any interest in doing.

Spend spend spend, debt debt debt, spend spend spend, debt debt debt. All of which hurts the middle class most as our dollar becomes useless.

The biggest problem though is the Fed, but nobody votes for that so there's not emotional defense or emotional attack on them. It's all deflected to the parties.

 

[JRK]

Difference between Bush TARP and OBama TARP?

Bush money was a gift with no strings attached

Obama demanded collateral and a change in the way they did business. Obama TARP is being paid back while the Bush TSRP is long gone

Thats the difference between Dems and Repubs. Dems demand accountability from big business while Repubs are firmly in their pocket

Are you nuts
Thats exactly backwards of the truth
The Troubled Asset Relief Program, commonly referred to as TARP, is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector which was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.
Originally expected to cost the U.S. taxpayers as much as $300 billion,[1] by 16 December, 2010 the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated the total cost would be $25 billion,[2] although Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner argued that the final cost would be still lower. [3] This is significantly less than the taxpayers' cost of the savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s. The cost of that crisis amounted to 3.2% of GDP during the Reagan/Bush era, while the GDP percentage of the current crisis' cost is estimated at less than 1%.[4] While it was once feared the government would be holding companies like GM, AIG and Citigroup for several years, those companies are preparing to buy back the Treasury's stake and emerge from TARP within a year.[5] Of the $245 billion invested in U.S. banks, over $169 billion has been paid back, including $13.7 billion in dividends, interest and other income, along with $4 billion in warrant proceeds as of April 2010. AIG is considered "on track" to pay back $51 billion from divestitures of two units and another $32 billion in securities.[4] In March 2010,
GM and Chrysler still owes us billions, thats BHO buddy
They still owe us 60 billion or so
General Motors and President Obama: The $48 Billion Lie
eneral Motors and Debt Repayment
But in the case of what he said about General Motors on April 24th, there is no such wiggle room; even his most diehard supporters can’t rescue him this time. What exactly did the President say? In his weekly address, he said that General Motors – and I quote – “paid back its loans to taxpayers with interest, fully five years ahead of schedule.”

This was a lie. A bald-faced lie on par with Richard Nixon’s “I’m not a crook” and Bill Clinton’s “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”

Thats it, AIG

 

[8537]

Bush had far more than a trillion in monetary and fiscal stimulus in 2001.

 

[JRK]

Republicans vs Democrats on deficit spending



This should be a fun thread watching who can excuse their party's wild out of control spending the best.


(here's a hint, the next guy always spends more than the guy before him, no matter the party, no matter how fiscally liberal the guy before him was)

Dr dock
The thread is about the policy and the usu age of debt
to start with debt is a way of doing business. I work for a company who is bond able in the billions, net worth in the millions
with out that you cannot grow

i read a thread that stated Reagan had an UE rate of over 10%, like Obama had fended that off or done a better job
Ok
where is Reagan's UE rate after 24 months if he threw 1.2 trillion dollars at the way he would have created jobs the first few weeks of his admin after 24 months?
People compare apples to oranges on the left, most i know on the right do not
Now you can decide one is better than another, but doing it with leaving out that fact makes it look to me as one is trying to hide something

Yeah but a big part of debt is supposed to be.........paying it back. Something neither your hero Reagan or the democrat's hero Obama had/have any interest in doing.

Spend spend spend, debt debt debt, spend spend spend, debt debt debt. All of which hurts the middle class most as our dollar becomes useless.

The biggest problem though is the Fed, but nobody votes for that so there's not emotional defense or emotional attack on them. It's all deflected to the parties.

1) I never sated Reagan is my hero. He done a great job, my point is how can anyone compare Obama and his 1.2 trillion dollar debt for jobs to people whose debt over 8 years was about the same and not all of it went to jobs, in fact W had most all of his debt went to Iraq, Afghanistan, Katrina and 5 other major hurricanes as well as tax rebates
2) I agree with the debt, Now do you feel 10 times worse about Obama doing it 10 times worse than anyone prior to him?

 

[JRK]

Bush had far more than a trillion in monetary and fiscal stimulus in 2001.

You have a link to back that up?
you and I know thats not true

 

[JRK]

When you look at the economic crash of 2007-2009 you can see how Bush throwing money at the problem did nothing to slow the crash or the economic panic. Within a month of Obama passing his TARP and Stimulus, the recession reversed

Obama showed leadership and prevented a Depression. Bush looked on like a deer in the headlights

Obama voted for tarp and ot 1/2 of the money
he gave GM 70 billion, we have got about 1/2 of it back
none of Chryslers
We have net loss of millions
This is a good job? this is the pay of for 1.2 trillion?

http://mrc.org/bmi/articles/2010/20100108104806.aspx
Unemployment shot up in 2009 from 7.7 percent in January to 10.1 percent in October before settling at 10 percent in December. Behind those percentages were more than 4.1 million people who lost their jobs during the year. According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that’s the most job losses in a year since 1940. (BLS could only provide data from 1940-2009)
But don’t expect journalist to label Pres. Barack Obama the worst jobs president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1933-1945). The media spent 2009 trying to shield Obama from the troubling numbers.

ABC’s Charles Gibson called the loss of 539,000 jobs in April a “marked improvement” May 8, 2009, because fewer jobs were lost than in March. In June 2009, Gibson was talking again about “hopeful” signs in the job numbers as more Americans were out of work.


and this was what he used tarp for?
General Motors and President Obama: The $48 Billion Lie

By Jim Fink5/20/2010Stocks to Watch


President Obama just can’t seem to tell the truth to the American people. Two months ago I wrote how healthcare reform would cost the American taxpayer at least $700 billion, yet President Obama used ridiculously unrealistic assumptions to claim that the legislation would actually save money. Some readers criticized me for calling Obama a liar when technically he was just knowingly employing faulty assumptions. That’s a distinction without a difference in my book.

General Motors and Debt Repayment
But in the case of what he said about General Motors on April 24th, there is no such wiggle room; even his most diehard supporters can’t rescue him this time. What exactly did the President say? In his weekly address, he said that General Motors – and I quote – “paid back its loans to taxpayers with interest, fully five years ahead of schedule.”

This was a lie. A bald-faced lie on par with Richard Nixon’s “I’m not a crook” and Bill Clinton’s “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”

This intent is made crystal clear in the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) March 2010 report on the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP). On page five of the report, the CBO states that “$48 billion in financing is still outstanding for GM.” There is no distinction between equity and debt. GM owes the U.S. government $48 billion period. This number did not change one iota based on GM and Obama’s phony announcement of “debt repayment.”

 

[JRK]

And Bush sent people checks in the amount of $250 or $500 each. How did he fund those checks, and exactly WHAT did it stimulate?

My Bank account, Its my money to start with, it was not Bushes or Obamas
Thats what you Liberals who do not pay taxes miss in all of this

And what cuts did Bush make in spending to offset the checks he sent back to the people?

This is not about GWB to start with
People compare UE performance to Obama as all is equal
Its not even in the same universe

 

[rightwinger]

We gave this country to the Republicans for eight years to show how their policies would put this country on the right track. What we got was a lost decade. stock market fell from 10750 to 8150 in eight years, GDP went negative, housing marked collapsed, losing 700000 jobs a month....not to mention two wars
That is what republican policies bought us

 

[JRK]

We gave this country to the Republicans for eight years to show how their policies would put this country on the right track. What we got was a lost decade. stock market fell from 10750 to 8150 in eight years, GDP went negative, housing marked collapsed, losing 700000 jobs a month....not to mention two wars
That is what republican policies bought us

The 4 years the GOP run this country it was great
The lost decade began in 2007, the year the liberals Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi took over congress
the jobs lost per month was after Obama was elected and after 2 years of the Liberals running congress
Please refrain from in accurate inforamtion

 

[rightwinger]

We gave this country to the Republicans for eight years to show how their policies would put this country on the right track. What we got was a lost decade. stock market fell from 10750 to 8150 in eight years, GDP went negative, housing marked collapsed, losing 700000 jobs a month....not to mention two wars
That is what republican policies bought us

The 4 years the GOP run this country it was great
The lost decade began in 2007, the year the liberals Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi took over congress
the jobs lost per month was after Obama was elected and after 2 years of the Liberals running congress
Please refrain from in accurate inforamtion

Point to specific legislation that caused the economic collapse in the summer of 2007 or shut the fuck up

 

[asterism]

So.....defecit spending is only bad when Obama does it. Got it!

Let me try this again
Obama had 1.2 trillion dollars he borrowed to create jobs in 9 weeks of him taking office
That somehow gets compared to people who did have a deficit over 8 years of about twice that, with the creation, thats net creation of about 25 million jobs

Obama has a net loss of millions, thats jobs and has added about 3 trillion dollars to that debt sense then

Now you tell me what is good and what is bad

Obamas TARP loans are being paid back....the Bush loans were gifts

Obama added more jobs since the Stimulus (3 million) than Bush did in eight years (1 million)

Obama most certainly did not add 3 million jobs.

Also, that's a false comparison - contrasting 2 years of Obama with 8 years of Bush especially noting when the collapse happened what changed then (think House and Senate).

 

[asterism]

When you look at the economic crash of 2007-2009 you can see how Bush throwing money at the problem did nothing to slow the crash or the economic panic. Within a month of Obama passing his TARP and Stimulus, the recession reversed

Obama showed leadership and prevented a Depression. Bush looked on like a deer in the headlights

HA!

What exactly did Obama do and when again? We've been through this before. None of Obama's policies took effect before the recession ended. Nice try though.

You also forget what precipitated this collapse, the straw that broke the Camel's back. It was an expected major increase in business operating costs, the Democrat agenda. And when did it start? When they had clear majorities in the House and Senate and the only viable options for the Oval Office were varying degrees of fiscal liberals.

Bush and the Republicans were bad enough, but even a McCain Presidency with a Democrat Legislature was going to vastly increase business costs. The hedge funds started to cash out and the whole thing unraveled from there.

Bush made it worse and Obama has only made it more than worse. Much much moreso. Any improvements from there are nothing but aberrations. There has been no recovery, just sucking to lesser extent, getting more detrimental at a slower rate.

That's not a recovery.

 

[asterism]

We gave this country to the Republicans for eight years to show how their policies would put this country on the right track. What we got was a lost decade. stock market fell from 10750 to 8150 in eight years, GDP went negative, housing marked collapsed, losing 700000 jobs a month....not to mention two wars
That is what republican policies bought us

No impending overreach of government had anything to do with it at all in your view? If that's the case why haven't things gotten better?

 

[asterism]

We gave this country to the Republicans for eight years to show how their policies would put this country on the right track. What we got was a lost decade. stock market fell from 10750 to 8150 in eight years, GDP went negative, housing marked collapsed, losing 700000 jobs a month....not to mention two wars
That is what republican policies bought us

The 4 years the GOP run this country it was great
The lost decade began in 2007, the year the liberals Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi took over congress
the jobs lost per month was after Obama was elected and after 2 years of the Liberals running congress
Please refrain from in accurate inforamtion

Point to specific legislation that caused the economic collapse in the summer of 2007 or shut the fuck up

What economic collapse in the summer of 2007? There wasn't one.

Specific legislation? That boondoggle now known as The Affordable Care Act. Once that was a sure thing one way or the other in the perception of the hedge funds (McCain would have just done it slower) the whole bubble burst.

And yes, it was a bubble. One that more than a few Republicans tried to address:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXqxN1XBMH8&feature=related]YouTube - Bush Warns "Entire Economy is in Danger"[/ame]


And the response of those in the Majority as of January 2007, who were going to have a fellow fiscal liberal in the Oval Office no matter who won as of July 2008:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related]YouTube - Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis[/ame]


You starting to get it? Hedge funds cashed out because they knew the government control was coming. They knew the fiscal policies were going to be anti-business and anti-growth.

And just to be sure about this, the new Administration had a solution complete with a nice long lecture about what was going to happen under the new plan.

How'd that work out?

 

[rightwinger]

When you look at the economic crash of 2007-2009 you can see how Bush throwing money at the problem did nothing to slow the crash or the economic panic. Within a month of Obama passing his TARP and Stimulus, the recession reversed

Obama showed leadership and prevented a Depression. Bush looked on like a deer in the headlights

HA!

What exactly did Obama do and when again? We've been through this before. None of Obama's policies took effect before the recession ended. Nice try though.

You also forget what precipitated this collapse, the straw that broke the Camel's back. It was an expected major increase in business operating costs, the Democrat agenda. And when did it start? When they had clear majorities in the House and Senate and the only viable options for the Oval Office were varying degrees of fiscal liberals.

Bush and the Republicans were bad enough, but even a McCain Presidency with a Democrat Legislature was going to vastly increase business costs. The hedge funds started to cash out and the whole thing unraveled from there.

Bush made it worse and Obama has only made it more than worse. Much much moreso. Any improvements from there are nothing but aberrations. There has been no recovery, just sucking to lesser extent, getting more detrimental at a slower rate.

That's not a recovery.

Both the Economic Stimulus and the Obama TARP payouts took effect. They demonstrated that the US government was willing to stand behind the financial and automotive sectors and reversed the panic that prevailed under Bush

 

[rdean]

Obama got 1/2 of tarp also
people keep trying to compare Obama to Reagan and Jr
You cannot

GWB had a stimulus also, he gave it back to the tax payer and for close to 100% of his 8 years UE was below 6%, some below 5
Reagan's did get over 10, but he created close to 20 million jobs before it was over and did it with a deficit that had 2 recessions and re building the military, that was also about the same in 8 years BHO is for1
The Reagan Information Page:Job Creation
One of the strongest features of the Reagan expansion was the job creation numbers. Almost 20 million jobs were created in just seven years. And contrary to popular mythology, most of those jobs paid at least $10/hour. Part of that myth is that service sector jobs equal low paying jobs. However, that is not the case, as even critics of Reagan are now admitting. In fact, the overall job statistics show the Reagan expansion to be one of the best ever.
tarp:
TARP Vote: Obama Wins, Senate Effectively Approves $350 Billion
Michael J. Boskin: Why the Spending Stimulus Failed - WSJ.com

More than 30% of the stimulus was "tax cuts".

We knew who destroyed the manufacturing base clear back in 2004. That's the good thing about the Internet. It makes it harder to "rewrite" history. Who controlled congress under Clinton's second term? Who controlled the entire government during Bush's first term? Economic failure can be easily traced to those times. It's not difficult.

Shifting blame for manufacturing job loss

The manufacturing sector lost more than three million jobs between 1998 and 2003, with 2.7 million lost since the immediate pre-recession year of 2000. Roughly coinciding with this manufacturing employment loss, the trade deficit in manufactured goods increased by over $230 billion

2.4 million jobs lost due to China from 2001-2008

 

[rightwinger]

Let me try this again
Obama had 1.2 trillion dollars he borrowed to create jobs in 9 weeks of him taking office
That somehow gets compared to people who did have a deficit over 8 years of about twice that, with the creation, thats net creation of about 25 million jobs

Obama has a net loss of millions, thats jobs and has added about 3 trillion dollars to that debt sense then

Now you tell me what is good and what is bad

Obamas TARP loans are being paid back....the Bush loans were gifts

Obama added more jobs since the Stimulus (3 million) than Bush did in eight years (1 million)

Obama most certainly did not add 3 million jobs.

Also, that's a false comparison - contrasting 2 years of Obama with 8 years of Bush especially noting when the collapse happened what changed then (think House and Senate).

I will make the same offer to you

Show a piece of House or Senate legislation that predicated the economic collapse in the Summer of 2007. If not....shut the fuck up

 

[asterism]

When you look at the economic crash of 2007-2009 you can see how Bush throwing money at the problem did nothing to slow the crash or the economic panic. Within a month of Obama passing his TARP and Stimulus, the recession reversed

Obama showed leadership and prevented a Depression. Bush looked on like a deer in the headlights

HA!

What exactly did Obama do and when again? We've been through this before. None of Obama's policies took effect before the recession ended. Nice try though.

You also forget what precipitated this collapse, the straw that broke the Camel's back. It was an expected major increase in business operating costs, the Democrat agenda. And when did it start? When they had clear majorities in the House and Senate and the only viable options for the Oval Office were varying degrees of fiscal liberals.

Bush and the Republicans were bad enough, but even a McCain Presidency with a Democrat Legislature was going to vastly increase business costs. The hedge funds started to cash out and the whole thing unraveled from there.

Bush made it worse and Obama has only made it more than worse. Much much moreso. Any improvements from there are nothing but aberrations. There has been no recovery, just sucking to lesser extent, getting more detrimental at a slower rate.

That's not a recovery.

Both the Economic Stimulus and the Obama TARP payouts took effect. They demonstrated that the US government was willing to stand behind the financial and automotive sectors and reversed the panic that prevailed under Bush

None of the President's actions actually happened before the end of the recession. Obama performed CPR on a victim that was no longer dying. Guess what happens when you do that literally?

 

[asterism]

Obama got 1/2 of tarp also
people keep trying to compare Obama to Reagan and Jr
You cannot

GWB had a stimulus also, he gave it back to the tax payer and for close to 100% of his 8 years UE was below 6%, some below 5
Reagan's did get over 10, but he created close to 20 million jobs before it was over and did it with a deficit that had 2 recessions and re building the military, that was also about the same in 8 years BHO is for1
The Reagan Information Page:Job Creation
One of the strongest features of the Reagan expansion was the job creation numbers. Almost 20 million jobs were created in just seven years. And contrary to popular mythology, most of those jobs paid at least $10/hour. Part of that myth is that service sector jobs equal low paying jobs. However, that is not the case, as even critics of Reagan are now admitting. In fact, the overall job statistics show the Reagan expansion to be one of the best ever.
tarp:
TARP Vote: Obama Wins, Senate Effectively Approves $350 Billion
Michael J. Boskin: Why the Spending Stimulus Failed - WSJ.com

More than 30% of the stimulus was "tax cuts".

We knew who destroyed the manufacturing base clear back in 2004. That's the good thing about the Internet. It makes it harder to "rewrite" history. Who controlled congress under Clinton's second term? Who controlled the entire government during Bush's first term? Economic failure can be easily traced to those times. It's not difficult.

Shifting blame for manufacturing job loss

The manufacturing sector lost more than three million jobs between 1998 and 2003, with 2.7 million lost since the immediate pre-recession year of 2000. Roughly coinciding with this manufacturing employment loss, the trade deficit in manufactured goods increased by over $230 billion

2.4 million jobs lost due to China from 2001-2008

Those tax cuts were planned into the models. Were they actually realized? Go check the IRS and let me know just how many of the "tax cuts" were real.

 

[asterism]

Obamas TARP loans are being paid back....the Bush loans were gifts

Obama added more jobs since the Stimulus (3 million) than Bush did in eight years (1 million)

Obama most certainly did not add 3 million jobs.

Also, that's a false comparison - contrasting 2 years of Obama with 8 years of Bush especially noting when the collapse happened what changed then (think House and Senate).

I will make the same offer to you

Show a piece of House or Senate legislation that predicated the economic collapse in the Summer of 2007. If not....shut the fuck up

There was no economic collapse in the summer of 2007.