NOAA Fails to Kill Oysters with MASSIVE CO2

[Care4all]

All that press about oysters not surviving a 0.04 change in PH on the West Coast due to SUVs and CO2? Put it on hold. The science is just now being done.

What we really have here is not EVIDENCE, but suspicion. And as usual in AGW science a bias towards leaping to conclusions. Couple of facts,

1) THis entire oyster dust-up is NOT about native marine life -- it's about farming. A bunch of bubbahs with a lot invested in oyster farming who can't seem to make a NON-NATIVE species grow fast enough to make a profit..

2) Tons of money available for research into OA so these farmers lock into a theory about CO2 causing their problems, alert the press, recruit the useful idiots.. GET THE F'ing MONEY! Have free diagnosis of your business problem..

3) Encourage researcher to include RIDICULOUS levels of pCO2 tolerances in their studies to guarantee the proper outcome. Sit back and wait for the magic to happen.

WHOOPS -- the plan doesn't work..

THE PLAN TO KILL YOUNG OYSTERS with CO2

Ocean acidification and emerging diseases in the Pacific Northwest | Roberts Lab

In the Pacific Northwest the environment has changed in a manner
that has contributed to increase mortality of bivalve larvae in
hatcheries and also appears to have decreased natural
recruitment. Several factors have been attributed to this
problem including temperature, ocean acidification, and
re-emerging pathogens. We are testing the impact of single and
multiple biotic and abiotic stressors (i.e. decreased pH) on
larval bivalves with a focus the Pacific oyster. In addition,
population level effects of ocean acidification will be
determined using select SNP markers.

Several local shellfish hatcheries, upon which nearly the entire
bivalve culture industry relies, have experienced severe losses
(e.g. up to 59%) over the past two years. Several factors have
been attributed to this problem including temperature, ocean
acidification, and re-emerging pathogens. Given the large-scale
environmental change observed in our marine ecosystems and the
relationship of host stress response and pathogen virulence with
environmental conditions, it is critical to examine the problems
facing bivalve larvae from a regional perspective by
systematically assessing how the environment influences the
spread of disease and the ability of oysters to effectively
respond to stress.

More specifically we will test the impact of single and multiple
biotic and abiotic stressors on larval bivalves with a focus on
the most economically important regional species, the Pacific
oyster (Crassostrea gigas). In order to assess the impact of
biotic and abiotic environmental factors on bivalve health, we
will also assess the abundance of oysters and other larvae in
Willapa, Dabob, and Netarts Bays in relation to water quality
parameters (pH, temperature, dissolved oxygen, salinity,
alkalinity, chlorophyll A, and pathogen load). The specific
rsearch objectives are to: 1) Characterize the interrelationship
of altered environmental conditions, pathogen, and oyster
response under controlled conditions and 2) Identify factors in
Pacific Northwest hatcheries and in the wild that are associated
with poor oyster larvae survival.

THE INCONVIENIENT TRUTH about pCO2

Progress Reports: Ocean acidification and emerging diseases in the Pacific Northwest | Roberts Lab

Wild-collected adult C. gigas were strip spawned and gametes
(separate eggs and sperm) were pooled. Fertilizations occurred
in water equilibrated to two different pCO2: 380 ppm (current
levels) and 840 ppm (near end-of-century estimation). <<WOW!!!>>
Fertilization times were staggered and there were 3 fertilization
times per treatment with 3 replicates per time (9 replicates per
treatment). Developing embryos were sampled at times
post-fertilization that correspond to important stages in
development: 1 h, 2h, 5h, 17h, and 24h. We collected data on the
proportion of larvae that had reached cleavage, hatching, etc.
for the different time points. We found that the larvae
developing in the 840 ppm treatment were slower to develop than
larvae at 380 ppm.

In collaboration with the Northwest Fisheries Science Center
(NOAA, NWFSC) we reared larvae until 48 hours post-fertilization
at 4 different pCO2 treatments: 280 ppm (pre-industrial levels),
380 ppm (current day), 750 ppm (projected mid-century), 2000 ppm
(pessimistic end-of-century). <<MORE POISON Dr. Frankenstein>>
There were 6 replicates per treatment.
As described above, adult wild-collected oysters were strip spawned and larvae were monitored in the different
treatments for the ability to reach developmental milestones,
percent fertilization, morphological abnormalities, and swimming
activity. At 24 hours post-fertilization larvae were also
assessed for percent calcification using polarized light. Also
at 24 hours post-fertilization we took samples of larvae from 3
larval chambers per treatment to store for gene expression
analysis.

We found that C. gigas larvae in this experiment had
the greatest success of calcification at 380 ppm and the poorest
at 2000 ppm. Calcification at 280 and 750 ppm decreased when
compared to 380 ppm, but the majority of the larvae were fully
calcified.


<<Lemme repeat a part of that>>
Calcification at 280 and 750 ppm decreased when
compared to 380 ppm, but the majority of the larvae were fully
calcified.
<<They couldn't hack the pre-industrial level of CO2>>

The greatest proportion of larvae with normal
morphology was observed at 380 ppm and the greatest incidence of
abnormal morphology was observed at 2000 ppm. Gene expression
analysis of hsp70 revealed elevated expression at 750 ppm when
compared with 380 ppm, but decreased expression at 2000 ppm
compared to 750 ppm. One intepretation of this is that the
larval stress response reaches a threshold in its ability to
respond to this stressor in water that in greater that 750 ppm
pC02.

Disease susceptibility of Pacific oyster larvae at elevated &#65533;&#65533;atm
CO2 levels- Disease challenges were performed exposing C. gigas
larvae to a combination of elevated &#65533;&#65533;atm CO2 and Vt. These
experiments examined C. gigas larval susceptibility to vibriosis
caused by Vt at three &#65533;&#65533;atm CO2 levels (ambient (~380), 750 and
2000 ppm &#65533;&#65533;atm CO2). Specialty gas mixtures of air and CO2 (2000
and 750 ppm &#65533;&#65533;atm CO2) (Praxair, Inc.) were used to produce
elevated &#65533;&#65533;atm CO2 conditions.

No significant differences in larval susceptibility was detected
at elevated either elevated &#65533;&#65533;atm CO2 when compared to ambient
levels.

Although LD50 values are lower for prodissoconch I larvae
at 2000 &#65533;&#65533;atm CO2, no significant differences were detected when
compared to ambient or 750 &#65533;&#65533;atm CO2 (Table 5). Figures 3a and 3b
illustrate proportions of larval survival at both larval stages
over 72 hours of exposure. Again, no significant differences in
larval survival was seen at elevated &#65533;&#65533;atm CO2.
Further statistical analyses are still underway to further validate these
findings. <<I BET -- NOAA must be fuming>>

Oyster Larvae Growth and Calcification at Three Different pCO2-
Experimental conditions were maintained using a flow-through
seawater system in Friday Harbor, Washington, USA. Three
experimental treatments were chosen to correspond with dissolved
CO2 levels of 400, 700 or 1000 ppm in the atmosphere. These
levels correspond to near current ambient oceanic conditions,
projections for mid-century pCO2, and end-of-century,
respectively (IPCC 2007).

Larval size (shell height and hinge length) was similar across
experimental treatments after 24 hours, however by day 3 larvae
grew significantly larger (height and length) in the Ambient and
MidCO2 compared to the HighCO2 treatment. Between days 1 and 3
larvae increased in size under Ambient conditions (shell height,
P < 1e-7) and MidCO2 conditions (shell height, P < 1e-7; Figure
4). Developmental rate did not vary across treatments.

As part of second experiment, C. gigas juveniles were exposed to
6 different levels of pCO2 (the same as above) for 1 month. At
the end of the month, oysters were sampled for transcriptomics,
proteomics, and histology. A subset of the oysters were subjected
to mechanical stress and similarly sampled. The goal of the
mechanical stress was to simulate a general secondary stressor to
see if OA affects response to other stress. Another group of
oysters from each treatment was subjected to one of three
temperatures representing thermal stress: 44°C (lethal
temperature, or LT), 43°C (LT-1°C), or 42°C (LT-2°C). Mortality
was monitored over a week and any surviving oysters were sampled
at the end of the week.

There was slightly more shell growth at ambient conditions
compared to all elevated pCO2 conditions, although there was no
overall consistent trend in the effect of pCO2 on shell growth.

We also accomplished preliminary proteomics on one sample to
ensure that we will be able to sequence and identify proteins.
The sequencing was successful and we were able to annotate almost
300 peptides.

How sad eh??

That's why the Warmers NEVER show you lab experiments.

Not once.

Not ever.

hmmm, didn't the "warmers" do this study and isn't it the "warmers" giving you the results that you thought they wouldn't?

 

[bobgnote]

And Im laughing.......................

Oooooooops!!!!

Did anybody see any indication, of attempt to simulate CO2 exchange, to H2CO3?

Is there any simulation, of upwelling tendencies, where ocean water with 50 years to assimilate CO2 sinks to the bottom, and then comes up, cold, with H2CO3 affecting its pH?

72 hr. testing of pCO2 and heat is great. What application does it have, to the real world, where cold water, with H2CO3 acid affinity killed oyster larvae?

Of course, if global warming heats the ocean to 44 C, those oysters are toasted.

How 'bout them links, Nitz? What are YOU laughing about, sucksassandballs? You posted three links, to the same study, by the Washington Post and Stanford, like it was three different studies. You know, in the real world, tards laugh and cry, without the same sort of comic development I need, to appreciate humor or tragedy. Eat shit, you stupid, fuck-ass bitches.

 

[Old Rocks]

We'll lose batches of FARMED oysters that don't belong here in the first place.

The co2 you're pissing and moaning about has probably always fluctuated here...which is why it's not bothering the native oysters.

Or maybe it does. Unexplained die-offs are a force of nature.

No, we have not had the die offs from the increased CO2 levels and anoxic water that we now see happening. Not in the time that the fishermen have been recording their observations off of the coast of Oregon.

And had you bothered to read the articles about the die offs, you would have seen that it has affected the native oysters.

 

[Old Rocks]

All that press about oysters not surviving a 0.04 change in PH on the West Coast due to SUVs and CO2? Put it on hold. The science is just now being done.

What we really have here is not EVIDENCE, but suspicion. And as usual in AGW science a bias towards leaping to conclusions. Couple of facts,

1) THis entire oyster dust-up is NOT about native marine life -- it's about farming. A bunch of bubbahs with a lot invested in oyster farming who can't seem to make a NON-NATIVE species grow fast enough to make a profit..

2) Tons of money available for research into OA so these farmers lock into a theory about CO2 causing their problems, alert the press, recruit the useful idiots.. GET THE F'ing MONEY! Have free diagnosis of your business problem..

3) Encourage researcher to include RIDICULOUS levels of pCO2 tolerances in their studies to guarantee the proper outcome. Sit back and wait for the magic to happen.

WHOOPS -- the plan doesn't work..

THE PLAN TO KILL YOUNG OYSTERS with CO2

THE INCONVIENIENT TRUTH about pCO2






How sad eh??

That's why the Warmers NEVER show you lab experiments.

Not once.

Not ever.

hmmm, didn't the "warmers" do this study and isn't it the "warmers" giving you the results that you thought they wouldn't?

Problem is, the scientists are trying to solve a problem. Where the fools here are trying to make political points.

 

[Old Rocks]

We'll lose batches of FARMED oysters that don't belong here in the first place.

The co2 you're pissing and moaning about has probably always fluctuated here...which is why it's not bothering the native oysters.

Or maybe it does. Unexplained die-offs are a force of nature.

And not just oysters, but crusteceans like ghost shrimp.

Northwest Oyster Die-offs Show Ocean Acidification Has Arrived by Elizabeth Grossman: Yale Environment 360

For the past six years, wild oysters in Willapa Bay, Washington, have failed to reproduce successfully because corrosive waters have prevented oyster larvae from forming shells. Wild oysters in Puget Sound and off the east coast of Vancouver Island also have experienced reproductive failure because of acidic waters. Other wild oyster beds in the Pacific Northwest have sustained losses in recent years at the same time that scientists have been measuring alarmingly corrosive water along the Pacific coast.

 

[Old Rocks]

And Im laughing.......................


Oooooooops!!!!

I am not. We still lose hatches of oysters under the conditions of high CO2 in the water. And we still don't know why. All we know at present is that the dieoffs are associated with the high CO2, but not a direct result of that level.

Ya know -- it eventually comes back to politics don't it? At this point, the Bubbahs with the Oyster Farms are gonna have to chip in to fix all that.. They used quite enough of the taxpayers' resources already... Maybe we should be concentrating any FED dollars on Natural species and their problems -- if an oyster has any issues that is.....

Damn! The density of the skull of some people is amazing. What you are stating is that if there were a new type of wheat rust that affected most strains of wheat, destroying the crops, that the government has no interest in finding a way to prevent the loss of the wheat crop, because the rust is a natural phenomena.

And, yes, asshole, there is a problem with the oysters. Your ignorance is abysmal.

 

[koshergrl]

No, there's a problem with introduced species.

What a surprise. The Japanese farm owners must be really irked.

 

[Old Rocks]

No, there's a problem with introduced species.

What a surprise. The Japanese farm owners must be really irked.

Really? Your source for this is? Or are you just flapping yap to cover for ignorance?

 

[koshergrl]

No, there's a problem with introduced species.

What a surprise. The Japanese farm owners must be really irked.

Really? Your source for this is? Or are you just flapping yap to cover for ignorance?

 

[flacaltenn]

All that press about oysters not surviving a 0.04 change in PH on the West Coast due to SUVs and CO2? Put it on hold. The science is just now being done.

What we really have here is not EVIDENCE, but suspicion. And as usual in AGW science a bias towards leaping to conclusions. Couple of facts,

1) THis entire oyster dust-up is NOT about native marine life -- it's about farming. A bunch of bubbahs with a lot invested in oyster farming who can't seem to make a NON-NATIVE species grow fast enough to make a profit..

2) Tons of money available for research into OA so these farmers lock into a theory about CO2 causing their problems, alert the press, recruit the useful idiots.. GET THE F'ing MONEY! Have free diagnosis of your business problem..

3) Encourage researcher to include RIDICULOUS levels of pCO2 tolerances in their studies to guarantee the proper outcome. Sit back and wait for the magic to happen.

WHOOPS -- the plan doesn't work..

THE PLAN TO KILL YOUNG OYSTERS with CO2

THE INCONVIENIENT TRUTH about pCO2






How sad eh??

That's why the Warmers NEVER show you lab experiments.

Not once.

Not ever.

hmmm, didn't the "warmers" do this study and isn't it the "warmers" giving you the results that you thought they wouldn't?

Still waiting for the 14 retractions that the Seattle Times owes it's readers. And this study was BURIED deeply in the NOAA website -- whereas their HOMEPAGE is STILL RAVING about the dastardly effects of OAcidification on Marine Life...

When do you think NOAA will bump this result up to an appropriate place in its website?

 

[Old Rocks]

That's why the Warmers NEVER show you lab experiments.

Not once.

Not ever.

hmmm, didn't the "warmers" do this study and isn't it the "warmers" giving you the results that you thought they wouldn't?

Still waiting for the 14 retractions that the Seattle Times owes it's readers. And this study was BURIED deeply in the NOAA website -- whereas their HOMEPAGE is STILL RAVING about the dastardly effects of OAcidification on Marine Life...

When do you think NOAA will bump this result up to an appropriate place in its website?

Retractions for what reason? The problem is still associated with the increase in CO2. You don't see the die offs when the CO2 levels are normal. That the research at this point does not point to a direct cause and effect still does not explain the observed link.

Flatulance, you are still trying to dismiss the science.

 

[Old Rocks]

No, there's a problem with introduced species.

What a surprise. The Japanese farm owners must be really irked.

Really? Your source for this is? Or are you just flapping yap to cover for ignorance?

I see. You are refering to the fact that the present oyster industry is dependent on a specie of oyster that is not native to the Northwest. Sorry, old gal, but those are the only oysters we have now. and I really don't want to lose them.

 

[flacaltenn]

hmmm, didn't the "warmers" do this study and isn't it the "warmers" giving you the results that you thought they wouldn't?

Still waiting for the 14 retractions that the Seattle Times owes it's readers. And this study was BURIED deeply in the NOAA website -- whereas their HOMEPAGE is STILL RAVING about the dastardly effects of OAcidification on Marine Life...

When do you think NOAA will bump this result up to an appropriate place in its website?

Retractions for what reason? The problem is still associated with the increase in CO2. You don't see the die offs when the CO2 levels are normal. That the research at this point does not point to a direct cause and effect still does not explain the observed link.

Flatulance, you are still trying to dismiss the science.

My gosh Old Rocks you're dense.. Must that granite heritage in your family.

When the science is done -- looks like CO2 is NOT associated with the oyster farming die-off. It either IS -- or it isn't.. Get it? Like Dr. Dean Edell says... Just because 80% of folks that are involved in car accidents ate carrots in the 3 day period prior ..........

No -- It seems like it ISN'T related to CO2.. Other than maybe water temp fluctuations in which CO2 is NOT THE CAUSAL parameter.

 

[flacaltenn]

Actually Ole Rocks --- there's a more obvious probable cause for farming die-offs..

STUPIDITY

These bubbahs are taking a warm-water non-native species and trying to raise the species in waters as COLD AS the coast of Alaska.. I actually ran across a site BRAGGING about how it was impossible for this species to become invasive because raising them in Alaska GUARANTEED that they can't procreate in water that cold.

Let's put you in a place that's so cold you couldn't procreate and see how well your health holds up..
I think what we have here -- is cruelty to oysters..

Wow -- could that be why they discovered that pumping water only at certain times of day seemed to help?

YA THINK???? It's NOT gonna be CO2.... Unless the Ministry of Truth continues to assert it's authority.

 

[koshergrl]

I think what rockhead is trying to say is he wants us to alter the environment of the Oregon Coast to accomodate Japanese oysters.

Am I right?

 

[koshergrl]

Transplants always want to change the landscape to suit themselves.

Right, Rocks? When did you move to Oregon and start telling the natives what to do with their resources? Were you around when the Forest Service/BLM moved in and stopped logging...so they could monopolize that industry?

 

[PredFan]

I bought a bushel of Florida oysters for the 4th and they were HUGE and delicious. I guess we must have different kinds of salt water or maybe different kind of CO2 down here in Florida.

 

[koshergrl]

Smaller is better when it comes to oysters!

 

[flacaltenn]

I bought a bushel of Florida oysters for the 4th and they were HUGE and delicious. I guess we must have different kinds of salt water or maybe different kind of CO2 down here in Florida.

What you got in Florida is an Intra-Coastal waterway SOOOO large, that oyster are safe from man and predation.. All those little "oyster islands" that poke holes in your boat -- took them suckers DECADES to build.

 

[bobgnote]

I read all the rants, and the usual retards haven't answered:

1. Why the corals are in trouble
2. Why The Roberts Lab is equated, by fucktards, with NOAA, which funded one, stupid study
3. Why the stupid study failed to attempt, to reconstruct H2CO3 exhange and oceanic pH, during relevant upwelling simulatuons
4. Why the study plotted the decreasing attrition, of decreasing temperature, away from mortality temp, but hey, this was about the only relevant information studied, but oceans won't be near this temperature, for years.

Duh, let's all wank out and watch Fox News! OK?