No wonder Russia agreed with the New Start treaty

[JakeStarkey]

every past president and every past secretary of state agreed with it, too.

man you guys are p'nuts.

If so, does that mean it's beyond discussion? Automatically right?

Seems to me that those same people had a whole lot of faith in Russian political change, yet that doesn't seem to be real either:

Mikhail Khodorkovsky Verdict: The End to Russian Democracy - The Daily Beast

The End to Russian Democracy

by David Satter

The sentence of Russian businessman Mikhail Khodorkovsky this week is a tragedy that signals Russia’s political corruption.

Despite criticism from the U.S. and an appeal on Friday by Mikhail Khodorkovsky’s lawyers, it appears the former head of the Yukos Oil Company will spend as much time in the Gulag as many Stalin-era political prisoners. His sentence of 13.5 years for fraud means that he will not be a free man until 2017, if then. The presiding judge in the case said that correcting Khodorkovsky would only be possible if he was isolated from society.

In fact, however, the Putin regime is not concerned about correcting Khodorkovsky. The arrest and sentencing of Khodorkovsky made it possible to complete the transformation of Russia into a controlled society with a permanent political leadership and a president for life (Putin). It is for this reason that Putin not only hates Khodorkovsky but, to a degree, fears him. Putin cannot abide the implicit challenge that Khodorkovsky at liberty would represent...

Unlike the other Russian oligarchs, who amassed wealth in similar ways, however, Khodorkovsky realized that the Russian rules of gangster capitalism had to change if Russia was ever to be a civilized country and he took steps to transform Yukos into a modern Western company. He declared his income and introduced Western standards of accounting and governance. He also began to exercise the rights of a Western businessman, including the right to finance opposition political parties. It was this that set him on a collision course with Putin...

Khodorkovsky must now return to the Siberian labor camp where he has served his long sentence with modesty and great personal dignity. His fate is, of course, a tragedy for him and his family. But it is also a tragedy for Russia. Khodorkovsky is the object of Putin’s vindictiveness not for any crime he may have committed but for what he represents. This is not just the corruption of the Yeltsin years but also the hope for a better and more honest future.

David Satter is a senior fellow of the Hudson Institute and a fellow of the Foreign Policy Institute of the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS). His latest book, Haunted Ground: Russia and the Communist Past, is due out next year from the Yale University Press.

Putin runs Russia. Period. Putin is former KGB. No KGB agent ever becomes "ex"KGB. KGB agents were trained to distrust their enemies. The USA is an enemy of the KGB. Putin distrusts and probably hates the US. Putin is a paranoid little despot. Example is how he is systematically beating back freedoms won by the Russian people, business and media. And of course Putin is busily putting his perceived political enemies in prison.
This latest knee capping of the US by idiot dove politicians(START) has Russia laughing their collective asses off. Inspections? One would have to be on crack if they believe the Russians are going to play nice-nice with US nuclear weapons inspectors. The Russians will demand we obey the treaty while they stonewall us on their cooperation.
This Obama Administration should be ashamed of themselves for all they did by signing that treaty was weaken a country.
We had the Russians down and should have kept them down.

We did not have the Russians down, and every president and secretary of state all know better than you, thereisnospoon.

 

[JakeStarkey]

jokey, removing the images from a post is allowed
stop sweatin the small stuff

I didn't remove any images. I quoted the post. I do not edited anyones post.

i understand, but jokey was trying to claim you did something wrong, and he was wrong

it is possible that either the image link didnt transfer with your quote, or that he had actually added it after you quoted him but before it would show he had edited his own post
not saying either actually happened as i dont have any proof either way
but its nothing to get your panties in a bunch over(for jokey)

Nope, divecon, the image was NOT there, mistake or not.

Let's hope that bigreb is more careful from now on.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yet another thread ruined by Jake and bigreb getting into a absolutely retarded off topic minutia pissing contest.

Grow the fuck up, children.

When someone accuses you of doing something that you did not do, don't you defend yourself?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I didn't remove any images. I quoted the post. I do not edited anyones post.

i understand, but jokey was trying to claim you did something wrong, and he was wrong

it is possible that either the image link didnt transfer with your quote, or that he had actually added it after you quoted him but before it would show he had edited his own post
not saying either actually happened as i dont have any proof either way
but its nothing to get your panties in a bunch over(for jokey)

Nope, divecon, the image was NOT there, mistake or not.

Let's hope that bigreb is more careful from now on.

You're a lying piece of shit.

 

[DiveCon]

I didn't remove any images. I quoted the post. I do not edited anyones post.

i understand, but jokey was trying to claim you did something wrong, and he was wrong

it is possible that either the image link didnt transfer with your quote, or that he had actually added it after you quoted him but before it would show he had edited his own post
not saying either actually happened as i dont have any proof either way
but its nothing to get your panties in a bunch over(for jokey)

Nope, divecon, the image was NOT there, mistake or not.

Let's hope that bigreb is more careful from now on.

you sure have selective reading skills

 

[bigrebnc1775]

obama just fucked America

".....dropable-bomb..."

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, how threatening.

Now, we're gonna have to Up-the-ante.....and, figure-out how to detect/track Russian-bombers.........with some reheated WWII-tech.

One bomb just as power as a nuke but without the radiation what a concept for the victors.

 

[DiveCon]

obama just fucked America

".....dropable-bomb..."

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, how threatening.

Now, we're gonna have to Up-the-ante.....and, figure-out how to detect/track Russian-bombers.........with some reheated WWII-tech.

One bomb just as power as a nuke but without the radiation what a concept for the victors.

and what do you think a Tu-22 will do against an F-22?

 

[DiveCon]

i'll tell ya
the F-22 will shoot it out of the sky MILES before the pilot of the Tu-22 can even begin to see the F-22

 

[bigrebnc1775]

i'll tell ya
the F-22 will shoot it out of the sky MILES before the pilot of the Tu-22 can even begin to see the F-22

Will the new start treaty prevent the russians from upgrading their weapon system to fit this bomb?

 

[DiveCon]

i'll tell ya
the F-22 will shoot it out of the sky MILES before the pilot of the Tu-22 can even begin to see the F-22

Will the new start treaty prevent the russians from upgrading their weapon system to fit this bomb?

this bomb was nothing more than a "one upsmanship" kinda like the space race was

 

[thereisnospoon]

If so, does that mean it's beyond discussion? Automatically right?

Seems to me that those same people had a whole lot of faith in Russian political change, yet that doesn't seem to be real either:

Mikhail Khodorkovsky Verdict: The End to Russian Democracy - The Daily Beast

Putin runs Russia. Period. Putin is former KGB. No KGB agent ever becomes "ex"KGB. KGB agents were trained to distrust their enemies. The USA is an enemy of the KGB. Putin distrusts and probably hates the US. Putin is a paranoid little despot. Example is how he is systematically beating back freedoms won by the Russian people, business and media. And of course Putin is busily putting his perceived political enemies in prison.
This latest knee capping of the US by idiot dove politicians(START) has Russia laughing their collective asses off. Inspections? One would have to be on crack if they believe the Russians are going to play nice-nice with US nuclear weapons inspectors. The Russians will demand we obey the treaty while they stonewall us on their cooperation.
This Obama Administration should be ashamed of themselves for all they did by signing that treaty was weaken a country.
We had the Russians down and should have kept them down.

Well, swami - every leading expert on international relations (including all living Presidents and SecDefs) are all in favor of the new START treaty. (START I and II were His High Holiness himself's babies, of course, signed by Bush Sr.). Your crystal ball predictions of what will happen because of this are about as meaningless as Ms. Cleo.

Wanna bet?.....Question: who is going to enforce START? And what is to force the Russian government to allow such enforcement? What makes you so sure the Russian government will not cheat on START?
See where we're going here?
The world was a much safer place when Russia was a weakened former super-power.
Now the Russian government is growing stronger on natural gas and oil taxes. The country is rebuilding it's military complex and is selling nuclear technology to rogue states such as North Korea and Iran.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

i'll tell ya
the F-22 will shoot it out of the sky MILES before the pilot of the Tu-22 can even begin to see the F-22

Will the new start treaty prevent the russians from upgrading their weapon system to fit this bomb?

this bomb was nothing more than a "one upsmanship" kinda like the space race was

Maybe but what is to prevent Russia from upgrading their weapons system to accomadate this bomb?

 

[thereisnospoon]

do you realize that the only delivery platform the Russians have for this is their ancient backfire bomber?

Does it matter how it's delivered? Thats a powerful bomb thats is not covered under the start treaty.

without an effect delivery system, what good is it?

Genius.....The Russians have been spending their oil and gas revenues very wisely. The country has been rebuilding their military.
Oh, are you aware that START prohibits the US from building anti- nuke missile defense systems in NATO countries in Europe?....Yeah, why is it that the Russians oppose building anti-missile defense systems? Because it scares the crap out of them. It scares the crap out of them because THEY CAN'T BUILD ONE!!!!!!
So they use this idiotic treaty to wreck our strategic advantage, you dummy!
Why the fuck are you libs so willing to be chummy with the God Damned Russians in the first place? Do you think the Russian missile knows your home houses people who are in favor of START?

 

[thereisnospoon]

[/B]

That's right, spam alert on the bigreb who altered the original post. But I fixed it for the loser from North Carolina. You know, the South rightfully lost the Civil War, and bigreb is rightfully losing this discussion . . . again.

You deleted the original image of the bigreb-mounted rocket with the Saddam poster. I put it back in. Did you go back and re-edit your post? Good if you did; that means I accomplished what I wanted.

I did not delete or remove anything asswipe
I quoted the post and commented. I did not edit the repost jack ass you fucking liar. I wished the mods would ban anyone caught lying. You would be the first to go.[/QUOTE]
Jakey once accused me of editing one of his posts. I proved him wrong and sent him packing with his tail between his ass cheeks.
Jakey does this accusation shit when he's getting his ass kicked in one of these debates.
Fuck 'em.

 

[DiveCon]

Does it matter how it's delivered? Thats a powerful bomb thats is not covered under the start treaty.

without an effect delivery system, what good is it?

Genius.....The Russians have been spending their oil and gas revenues very wisely. The country has been rebuilding their military.
Oh, are you aware that START prohibits the US from building anti- nuke missile defense systems in NATO countries in Europe?....Yeah, why is it that the Russians oppose building anti-missile defense systems? Because it scares the crap out of them. It scares the crap out of them because THEY CAN'T BUILD ONE!!!!!!
So they use this idiotic treaty to wreck our strategic advantage, you dummy!
Why the fuck are you libs so willing to be chummy with the God Damned Russians in the first place? Do you think the Russian missile knows your home houses people who are in favor of START?

uh, i'm not a lib
and this bomb requires a cargo plane or the old Tu-22 Tupolev to deliver it
that is a 50+ year old airframe
this can NOT be placed onto a missile as it is TOO HEAVY

if you run around fearing everything, you will not have anything in your life but fear

 

[thereisnospoon]

If so, does that mean it's beyond discussion? Automatically right?

Seems to me that those same people had a whole lot of faith in Russian political change, yet that doesn't seem to be real either:

Mikhail Khodorkovsky Verdict: The End to Russian Democracy - The Daily Beast

Putin runs Russia. Period. Putin is former KGB. No KGB agent ever becomes "ex"KGB. KGB agents were trained to distrust their enemies. The USA is an enemy of the KGB. Putin distrusts and probably hates the US. Putin is a paranoid little despot. Example is how he is systematically beating back freedoms won by the Russian people, business and media. And of course Putin is busily putting his perceived political enemies in prison.
This latest knee capping of the US by idiot dove politicians(START) has Russia laughing their collective asses off. Inspections? One would have to be on crack if they believe the Russians are going to play nice-nice with US nuclear weapons inspectors. The Russians will demand we obey the treaty while they stonewall us on their cooperation.
This Obama Administration should be ashamed of themselves for all they did by signing that treaty was weaken a country.
We had the Russians down and should have kept them down.

We did not have the Russians down, and every president and secretary of state all know better than you, thereisnospoon.

Really? Ok what were those images of Russian soldiers going AWOL because they were not being paid. And those crumbling airfields., the dilapidated military buildings, the horribly in need of repair facilities, the inability of the Russian government to maintain it's fighter planes?.....Of the inability of the Russian law enforcement to control organized crime, the public housing falling apart, an economy in shambles, no recognizable products coming from the country.
The fact post Soviet Russia was in a shambles. The country was losing population due to emigration and low birth rates. We did that. We beat the shit out of our most dangerous adversary without firing a single shot.
And now we have people like you wanting to kiss their ass.
What's next, you gonna start waving the Russian flag on May 1st?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Putin runs Russia. Period. Putin is former KGB. No KGB agent ever becomes "ex"KGB. KGB agents were trained to distrust their enemies. The USA is an enemy of the KGB. Putin distrusts and probably hates the US. Putin is a paranoid little despot. Example is how he is systematically beating back freedoms won by the Russian people, business and media. And of course Putin is busily putting his perceived political enemies in prison.
This latest knee capping of the US by idiot dove politicians(START) has Russia laughing their collective asses off. Inspections? One would have to be on crack if they believe the Russians are going to play nice-nice with US nuclear weapons inspectors. The Russians will demand we obey the treaty while they stonewall us on their cooperation.
This Obama Administration should be ashamed of themselves for all they did by signing that treaty was weaken a country.
We had the Russians down and should have kept them down.

We did not have the Russians down, and every president and secretary of state all know better than you, thereisnospoon.

Really? Ok what were those images of Russian soldiers going AWOL because they were not being paid. And those crumbling airfields., the dilapidated military buildings, the horribly in need of repair facilities, the inability of the Russian government to maintain it's fighter planes?.....Of the inability of the Russian law enforcement to control organized crime, the public housing falling apart, an economy in shambles, no recognizable products coming from the country.
The fact post Soviet Russia was in a shambles. The country was losing population due to emigration and low birth rates. We did that. We beat the shit out of our most dangerous adversary without firing a single shot.
And now we have people like you wanting to kiss their ass.
What's next, you gonna start waving the Russian flag on May 1st?

I wonder why more don't call jake on his bullshit. every thread he seems to be an authority on the subject, he gives his opinion as fact with no supporting information.

 

[thereisnospoon]

without an effect delivery system, what good is it?

Genius.....The Russians have been spending their oil and gas revenues very wisely. The country has been rebuilding their military.
Oh, are you aware that START prohibits the US from building anti- nuke missile defense systems in NATO countries in Europe?....Yeah, why is it that the Russians oppose building anti-missile defense systems? Because it scares the crap out of them. It scares the crap out of them because THEY CAN'T BUILD ONE!!!!!!
So they use this idiotic treaty to wreck our strategic advantage, you dummy!
Why the fuck are you libs so willing to be chummy with the God Damned Russians in the first place? Do you think the Russian missile knows your home houses people who are in favor of START?

uh, i'm not a lib
and this bomb requires a cargo plane or the old Tu-22 Tupolev to deliver it
that is a 50+ year old airframe
this can NOT be placed onto a missile as it is TOO HEAVY

if you run around fearing everything, you will not have anything in your life but fear

post went to incorrect user. Sorry.
Oh it is not fear. It is this......We had the Russians on the ropes. And amazingly our political relations with Russia had greatly improved. Notice the tensions between Russia and The US even since Obama was elected?. That is because Putin is in charge, doesn't like the US and looks upon Obama as weak. When you view your adversary as weak, you take advantage of that weakness.
Back to the diplomatic relations we had with Russia before Putin, wonderful...Why after some 40 years of Cold War were we more friendly with Russia then ever? One, keep your friends close, your enemies closer. Two, when your adversary is weak, keep him weak but make him think he's happy.
I cannot believe there are people in this country who are so naive as to think the Russians with their current people in power are going to honor any treaty honorably.
Vladimir Putin surrounds himself with people who were of the Old Soviet Union's inner workings. These are former KGB and former military people who hold the same distrust and avarice toward the US as they always did. In fact there is no doubt in my mind that Putin and Co. may possibly resent the US for helping in the breakup the USSR!!!

 

[rdean]

In the Liberal's fantasy the Liberal survives Nuclear war because they are smarter.

In the liberals world, the liberal survives nuclear war because they keep it from happening.

For right wingers, they have mysticism and the supernatural to "protect them". Of course, there's no evidence they even exist, but if you click your heels together three times and wish real, real hard.

Click
Click
Click

 

[shintao]

obama just fucked America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2FGA3Z-oYM&feature=grec_index

And how did he fuck America? Is it part of the START? Fuck no!! Now get a grip, but you don't need START to throw a hand grenade. LOL!!