No, wages are not stagnant, lefties

[The Rabbi]

One of the cries of the progressives is that the system is unfair because wages for the middle class have been stagnant for the last 10/15/20 years (take your pick).
Turns out not to be true in any meaningful sense. Another liberal myth shot to hell.

Donald Boudreaux and Mark Perry: The Myth of a Stagnant Middle Class - WSJ.com

A favorite "progressive" trope is that America's middle class has stagnated economically since the 1970s. One version of this claim, made by Robert Reich, President Clinton's labor secretary, is typical: "After three decades of flat wages during which almost all the gains of growth have gone to the very top," he wrote in 2010, "the middle class no longer has the buying power to keep the economy going."

This trope is spectacularly wrong.

It is true enough that, when adjusted for inflation using the Consumer Price Index, the average hourly wage of nonsupervisory workers in America has remained about the same. But not just for three decades. The average hourly wage in real dollars has remained largely unchanged from at least 1964—when the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) started reporting it.

Moreover, there are several problems with this measurement of wages. First, the CPI overestimates inflation by underestimating the value of improvements in product quality and variety. Would you prefer 1980 medical care at 1980 prices, or 2013 care at 2013 prices? Most of us wouldn't hesitate to choose the latter.

Second, this wage figure ignores the rise over the past few decades in the portion of worker pay taken as (nontaxable) fringe benefits. This is no small matter—health benefits, pensions, paid leave and the rest now amount to an average of almost 31% of total compensation for all civilian workers according to the BLS.

Third and most important, the average hourly wage is held down by the great increase of women and immigrants into the workforce over the past three decades. Precisely because the U.S. economy was flexible and strong, it created millions of jobs for the influx of many often lesser-skilled workers who sought employment during these years.

More at the source.

 

[Ravi]

Pensions and paid leave? Who gets that anymore, certainly not the people with the stagnant wages.

 

[Inthemiddle]

So it's all women's fault? We should get the women back into the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, and that'll solve our problems. Brilliant!!

 

[Sallow]

Bullshit.

Along with the crash in employment which led to either people having no income, or people like myself who had to take jobs for far less than they were formerly making..there's not only been stagnant wages..wages have been GOING DOWN.

The exception of course..is the 1%.

 

[TNHarley]

I thought minimum wage has went up. I personally have not heard of wages goign down. Not going up, but not going down either. Frozen wages, perhaps

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Wages have exceeded the minimum wage for years down here now.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Bullshit.

Along with the crash in employment which led to either people having no income, or people like myself who had to take jobs for far less than they were formerly making..there's not only been stagnant wages..wages have been GOING DOWN.

The exception of course..is the 1%.

Plus, you have to pay state taxes in NY.

 

[FJO]

Bullshit.

Along with the crash in employment which led to either people having no income, or people like myself who had to take jobs for far less than they were formerly making..there's not only been stagnant wages..wages have been GOING DOWN.

The exception of course..is the 1%.

Careful, now! Your envy and jealousy is showing.

I bet you would not complain if you were smart enough to be part of the 1%.

 

[Ringel05]

Rabbi, I don't know where you dug up that tripe but it's bull shit. Middle class wages have been steadily declining while the rich, who back our so called representatives, (yeah, that also includes Obama and crew) keep making more money.
Things looked like they might be improving but now we're seeing companys hiring more temp workers instead of full time employees and cutting back hours and personnel. That is directly tied to Obamacare. I wouldn't be surprised if this recession drags out another five to six years.

 

[Sallow]

Bullshit.

Along with the crash in employment which led to either people having no income, or people like myself who had to take jobs for far less than they were formerly making..there's not only been stagnant wages..wages have been GOING DOWN.

The exception of course..is the 1%.

Plus, you have to pay state taxes in NY.

State, City and Federal. Along with real estate.

But now I am paying taxes in, count em, two states. That's along with having to purchase an automobile to get to work and all that comes along with that.

I took a huge hit.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi, I don't know where you dug up that tripe but it's bull shit. Middle class wages have been steadily declining while the rich, who back our so called representatives, (yeah, that also includes Obama and crew) keep making more money.
Things looked like they might be improving but now we're seeing companys hiring more temp workers instead of full time employees and cutting back hours and personnel. That is directly tied to Obamacare. I wouldn't be surprised if this recession drags out another five to six years.

It's bullshit because you say it is? Show me exactly where he's wrong. Quote figure and cite sources. Good luck.

Interesting to see all the venom here. You know you're right when the pigs start squealing.

 

[PoliticalChic]

One of the cries of the progressives is that the system is unfair because wages for the middle class have been stagnant for the last 10/15/20 years (take your pick).
Turns out not to be true in any meaningful sense. Another liberal myth shot to hell.

Donald Boudreaux and Mark Perry: The Myth of a Stagnant Middle Class - WSJ.com

A favorite "progressive" trope is that America's middle class has stagnated economically since the 1970s. One version of this claim, made by Robert Reich, President Clinton's labor secretary, is typical: "After three decades of flat wages during which almost all the gains of growth have gone to the very top," he wrote in 2010, "the middle class no longer has the buying power to keep the economy going."

This trope is spectacularly wrong.

It is true enough that, when adjusted for inflation using the Consumer Price Index, the average hourly wage of nonsupervisory workers in America has remained about the same. But not just for three decades. The average hourly wage in real dollars has remained largely unchanged from at least 1964—when the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) started reporting it.

Moreover, there are several problems with this measurement of wages. First, the CPI overestimates inflation by underestimating the value of improvements in product quality and variety. Would you prefer 1980 medical care at 1980 prices, or 2013 care at 2013 prices? Most of us wouldn't hesitate to choose the latter.

Second, this wage figure ignores the rise over the past few decades in the portion of worker pay taken as (nontaxable) fringe benefits. This is no small matter—health benefits, pensions, paid leave and the rest now amount to an average of almost 31% of total compensation for all civilian workers according to the BLS.

Third and most important, the average hourly wage is held down by the great increase of women and immigrants into the workforce over the past three decades. Precisely because the U.S. economy was flexible and strong, it created millions of jobs for the influx of many often lesser-skilled workers who sought employment during these years.

More at the source.

1. Rab....they are so hungry to buy the Leftist rants that validate their votes for this failure in the highest office that they won't acknowledge the truth of your post.


2. Let’s be clear: the broadest and most accurate measure of living standard is real per capita consumption. That measure soared by 74% from 1980 to 2004. The Equality Of Reaganomics - Forbes
http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb...ce=N&AllYearsChk=YES&Update=Update&JavaBox=no

a. A study of table 7.1 would show that between 1973 and 2004, it doubled. And between 1929 and 2004, real per capita consumption by American workers increased five fold. The fastest growth periods were 1983-1990 and 1992-2004, known as the Reagan boom.

b. For those who insist that wealth has fallen, this in a discussion of the recession: “The decline in home prices and stock portfolios in 2008 wiped out gains in net worth from the previous three years, the Fed said. Median household net worth increased 17.7 percent between 2004 and 2007, but fell 3.2 percent from 2004 through last October, according to the Federal Reserve's Survey of Consumer Finances.” Average American Net Worth Drops 23% - CBS News

c.”Today, the country has gone a long way toward an appearance of classlessness. Americans of all sorts are awash in luxuries that would have dazzled their grandparents.
“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/15/national/class/OVERVIEW-FINAL.html?pagewanted=all



3. “A measure of inflation based on changes in personal consumption. Unlike the CPI, which is based on a fixed basket of goods, the Personal Consumption Expenditures (PCE) Deflator finds the average increase in prices for all domestic personal consumption. PCE Deflator has been shown to be a more comprehensive and consistent gauge of inflation in the US.” PCE Deflator, (Personal Consumption Expenditure Deflator) - United States

a. The official inflation measures overstate inflation: using the PCE deflator the gain from 1977 to 2005 increases by 50%.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Rabbi, I don't know where you dug up that tripe but it's bull shit. Middle class wages have been steadily declining while the rich, who back our so called representatives, (yeah, that also includes Obama and crew) keep making more money.
Things looked like they might be improving but now we're seeing companys hiring more temp workers instead of full time employees and cutting back hours and personnel. That is directly tied to Obamacare. I wouldn't be surprised if this recession drags out another five to six years.

Reflecting the high degree of mobility across the wealth distribution over the 2007–2009
period, the picture is quite different when change is considered for panel households conditional on their position in the wealth distribution in 2007. For example, about 12 percent of the least wealthy half of households in 2007 moved into the upper half in 2009, and about half of the total net wealth loss was attributable to households originally among the wealthiest one percent in 2007.”
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2011/201151/201151pap.pdf

 

[Truthmatters]

Donald J. Boudreaux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Truthmatters]

Donald J. Boudreaux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Austrian School



Born

1958 (age 54–55)



Nationality

United States



Institution

George Mason University



Field

Law and economics, Austrian economics, International Trade



Alma mater

University of Virginia
Auburn University



Influences

Friedrich Hayek










guys the austrian school of economics is considered the short bus school of economics.

 

[TNHarley]

Donald J. Boudreaux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whats your point?

 

[Ringel05]

Rabbi, I don't know where you dug up that tripe but it's bull shit. Middle class wages have been steadily declining while the rich, who back our so called representatives, (yeah, that also includes Obama and crew) keep making more money.
Things looked like they might be improving but now we're seeing companys hiring more temp workers instead of full time employees and cutting back hours and personnel. That is directly tied to Obamacare. I wouldn't be surprised if this recession drags out another five to six years.

It's bullshit because you say it is? Show me exactly where he's wrong. Quote figure and cite sources. Good luck.

Interesting to see all the venom here. You know you're right when the pigs start squealing.

Well if you had left off the last sentence you might have deserved a rational and reasoned reply, especially since it appears you're lumping me in with the far left loonies. I know what situation the country is in, I know what is painfully obvious to a large percentage of us, former, middle class earners despite what some would have us believe, on both ends of the loony spectrum. Try getting out of your red bubble from time to time.

 

[Truthmatters]

Austrian School - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

General criticisms

Some economists have argued that Austrians are often averse to the use of mathematics and statistics in economics.[83]

Economist Bryan Caplan argues that Austrians have often misunderstood modern economics, causing them to overstate their differences with it. For example, many Austrians object to the use of cardinal utility in microeconomic theory; however, microeconomic theorists go to great pains to show that their results hold for all strictly monotonic transformations of utility, and so are true for purely ordinal preferences.[84][85] The result is that conclusions about utility preferences hold no matter what values are assigned to them.

Economist Paul Krugman has stated that because Austrians do not use "explicit models" they are unaware of holes in their own thinking.[86]

Economist Benjamin Klein has criticized the economic methodological work of Austrian economist Israel M. Kirzner. While praising Kirzner for highlighting shortcomings in traditional methodology, Klein argued that Kirzner did not provide a viable alternative for economic methodology.[87]

Economist Jeffrey Sachs argues that among developed countries, those with high rates of taxation and high social welfare spending perform better on most measures of economic performance compared to countries with low rates of taxation and low social outlays. He concludes that Friedrich Hayek was wrong to argue that high levels of government spending harms an economy, and "a generous social-welfare state is not a road to serfdom but rather to fairness, economic equality and international competitiveness."[88] Austrian economist Sudha Shenoy responded by arguing that countries with large public sectors have grown more slowly.[

 

[Truthmatters]

Why I Am Not an Austrian Economist

 

[Mad Scientist]

PC you're using numbers only to 2004/5. Just check numbers between 2008 and now, you'll see the change.

I used to subscribe to WSJ but over time I could see their bias. They love Business and Illegal Aliens. Both can do no wrong. Just my opinion.

Interestingly, WSJ also published this in Sept of last year:
Incomes Fell or Stagnated in Most States Last Year - WSJ.com

The income of the typical U.S. family fell or was flat in almost every state last year, with the drop particularly steep in places where the economy has been hit hard by the housing bust.
Nationally, the median income dropped by 1.3% to $50,502 in 2011. A separate report last week reported a slightly different median income level, but either way, the number is at a level last seen in the mid-1990s, continuing a long period of stagnant or falling wages since an all-time peak in 1999.

So the OP is correct: Wages are not stagnant.

Just in time for that ObamaCare Tax too!