No Victory in Iraq says Petraeus

[Epsilon Delta]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | No victory in Iraq says Petraeus

The outgoing commander of US troops in Iraq, Gen David Petraeus, has said that he will never declare victory there.

In a BBC interview, Gen Petraeus said that recent security gains were "not irreversible" and that the US still faced a "long struggle".

When asked if US troops could withdraw from Iraqi cities by the middle of next year, he said that would be "doable".

"I don't think we could call it a victory, but... I guess we could leave by next year."

 

[dilloduck]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | No victory in Iraq says Petraeus



"I don't think we could call it a victory, but... I guess we could leave by next year."

great !

 

[Red Dawn]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | No victory in Iraq says Petraeus



"I don't think we could call it a victory, but... I guess we could leave by next year."

General Patreus knows what he's talking about here, unlike some hyper partisan hacks. Reducing violence is a tactical success, but there's no such thing as "victory" in iraq. No one has ever credibly defined what victory was.

All we know is that we replaced a secular, anti-iranian sunni dictator, with a corrupt and sympathetic to iran Shia dominated government.

Nobody has ever explained to me how that was a good investment for a trillion tax payer dollars and 40,000 dead and wounded americans.

 

[MrJim]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | No victory in Iraq says Petraeus



"I don't think we could call it a victory, but... I guess we could leave by next year."

"Victory" in Iraq will be declared after we've donated all these lives and dollars to an unknown definition by whichever clan has the most determination and the most weapons after the US claims "victory" and leaves the country....if it ever does. Petraeus likely knows that, but can't admit it.
Sadam was ruling it the only way it can be ruled and King George was too stuoid to know it.

 

[sparky]

so it's declare victory and get out?

gee, where have we heard that line...?

 

[MrJim]

so it's declare victory and get out?

gee, where have we heard that line...?

Beats me. Where?

 

[elvis]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | No victory in Iraq says Petraeus



"I don't think we could call it a victory, but... I guess we could leave by next year."

Do you really think we will pull all the troops out?

 

[editec]

What the hell is a "victory" in Afghanistan, anyway?

What are the "metrics"?

I thought we were in Afghanistan to drive out the Taliban who allowed AlQada to train there.

We haven't done that yet?

If we have, then mission accomplished. If we haven't, then why the hell not?

Now if the "victory" is turning Afghanistan into a secular humanist democracy, all I have to say is that they just don't want to be like us.

We ought to get over it. We really need to get over that conceit that everyone in the world needs to become just like us.

If I was a Afghanistani Moslem on the outside looking into America, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be like us, either.

Why is that so hard for some of us to get?

We don't want to be like them, and we can all understand that, right?

It's a big world, folks. Let's try get over our belief that it has to be homogenized, shall we?

Humankind's strength is that not every society is the same.

Why is that a strength?

Because that means that when one society goes nuts (as societies often do) that perverted zietguiest doesn't make the other societies sick, too.

And when a society's zietgiest becomes toxic (imagine NAZI Germany for example) then there are other societies which are there to stand against it.

Let's grow up, and give each other a break, shall we?

Diversity of cultures and societies is a good thing, not a bad thing.

That is at least part of the reason, that I am somewhat sympathetic to those folks (like Joyce, for example) who are asking us why there can't be some place in the world that remains culturally and racially White Euro/American.

I mean seriously, a reservation for that White Culture is no less sensible than preserving other threatened cultures, is it?

My fellow liberals will get all up in arms if, for example, cultural chavinism destroys a primative "native" culture, but they can't see the value of preserving a culturally primative White one?

Sup wid dat, anyway?

That blindspot in my fellow liberals is one of the things that makes convatives call them racist, and in that case, I have to agree with the so-called conservatives.

Who here wants to invade Pennsylvania and force the Amish to become just like us?

Anyone? Anyone?

Nobody right?

But still we think it perfectly okay to try to force the Afghanistanis to reinvent their culture because we don't like it?

 

[sparky]

Beats me. Where?

George Aiken, the Republican senator from Vermont, in a speech on the Senate floor in 1966, said the way out of US involvement in Vietnam was to declare victory and get out

so i guess it's another 9 years....

 

[JimH52]

Didn't we already declare victory?

"Mission Accomplished," 5 Years Later, Since Bush Declared End To Major Combat Operations In Iraq, Nearly 4,000 U.S. Troops Have Died - CBS News

General Patreus is one of the bright spots of this Administration. Bush should be extemely thankful he was there.

 

[Gunny]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | No victory in Iraq says Petraeus



"I don't think we could call it a victory, but... I guess we could leave by next year."

Victory? How about a success? The primary goal was to remove Saddam Hussein and his government from power. Done.

We then appointed a interim government to hold elections to all the people to elect their own government. Done.

We've spent more than enough time training their security forces.

We have provided Iraq with all the tools to succeed. We can't do it for them. "Victory" will be on the people and government of Iraq, not us and anyone spinning it any other way is just plain full of shit.

 

[Lycurgus]

Victory? How about a success? The primary goal was to remove Saddam Hussein and his government from power. Done.

We then appointed a interim government to hold elections to all the people to elect their own government. Done.

We've spent more than enough time training their security forces.

We have provided Iraq with all the tools to succeed. We can't do it for them. "Victory" will be on the people and government of Iraq, not us and anyone spinning it any other way is just plain full of shit.

Well said Gunny!

 

[Sunni Man]

One we leave Iraq it will become an Islamic nation again.

 

[editec]

One we leave Iraq it will become an Islamic nation again.

It's an Islamic nation right now.

Don't you read anything but the NEO-NAZI Times, Sonny?

 

[Sunni Man]

It's an Islamic nation right now.

Don't you read anything but the NEO-NAZI Times, Sonny?

When it is governed totally by Sharia Law then it will be an Islamic nation.

 

[editec]

When it is governed totally by Sharia Law then it will be an Islamic nation.

Which branch?

Sunnia or Shia?

Incidently I doubt you understand Sharia law as well as you think you do.

It is practiced differently in different Moslem nations, you know.

 

[Sunni Man]

Which branch?

Sunnia or Shia?

Incidently I doubt you understand Sharia law as well as you think you do.

It is practiced differently in different Moslem nations, you know.

I would hope Sunni, but most likely Iraq would be Shia.

Then again, I kind of expect Iraq to break up into 3 parts or nations. Sunni, Shia, and Kurdish.

The Kurds want Nothing to do with Iraq either way. Period.


Sharia Law is practiced somewhat different in each Islamic nation.

Just like Democracy is practiced somewhat different in every Western nation.

It all has to do with the culture and norms of the counrty.

 

[Gunny]

One we leave Iraq it will become an Islamic nation again.

Who cares? Not our problem once we leave.

Palestine is a terrorist nation, The people democratically voted for a terrorist organization to represent them to the world. So what's one more Islamic nation?

 

[Gunny]

I would hope Sunni, but most likely Iraq would be Shia.

Then again, I kind of expect Iraq to break up into 3 parts or nations. Sunni, Shia, and Kurdish.

The Kurds want Nothing to do with Iraq either way. Period.


Sharia Law is practiced somewhat different in each Islamic nation.

Just like Democracy is practiced somewhat different in every Western nation.

It all has to do with the culture and norms of the counrty.

3 Nations. One backed by Saudi Arabia, one backed by Iran, and we'll probably back the Kurds. Then they can war over who gets the regions with the oil. If not that, they can kill each other over their differing religious beliefs.

 

[Lycurgus]

The Kurds have progressed further along than the rest of the nation and seem to have a much better understanding of their desired long term goals.