No Thread about the West Virginia Coal Mine Tragedy?...

[Old Rocks]

So noted and of course I will.

Matewan, eh?

Great movie. Surely you must have seen it.

I Own one... I Thought it was Called, "Matewan, Bloody Matewan"...

Now I gotta go diggin' in the VHS Boxes...

Have you ever Stumbled back to the Elevated Hotel after a 2AM Breakfast @ Kings Diner in Williamson?...



peace...

Some of mother's family were hard coal miners of NE PA in the late 19th century and early 20th.

It is rumored that some of them were Molly McFlanders, too but I have yet to confirm that, and rather doubt it, too.

Molly MaGuires. Hardly a badge of shame. They fought for their interests in and out of the mine.

Judging from what I remember of those old guys, they seemed like company men to me. I know at least one was managment.

I never ventured into Pennsyltuckey territorywhen I lived there, so I've never been to Williamsport.

I was strictly an East side Keystoner back when I lived there.

Seriously, with NYC and Phila a hour away, and with the mountains on the east side and all the forests in that area, there was no reason anybody on the East side of the state ventured to the West side unless we had a damned good reason to take the drive.

I'm considering moving back there, now.

I sort of miss the Poconos.

There were many organizations that were rather radical in response to the conditions they had to endure. And all too often the local and state law enforcement people allowed them to be intimidated and even killed without any attempt at investigation.

 

[Old Rocks]

Coal mining, logging, and commercial fishing are just about the most dangerous occupations that one can engage in. Coal has done the least of these to make the work safer.

 

[goldcatt]

And yet the acheivements and contributions of the coal miners are probably the least acknowledged of any of these. And when the mines are exhausted or mechanized or they are too old or sick to be of use, too many of them are forgotten and left to rot with cancer and black lung in deteriorating ghost towns surrounded by decaying slag heaps and VA or union reps who won't answer their phones. No reality tv shows or spotted owl campaigns for them, the dark filthy work in the mines isn't sexy enough to sell.

Oh, they get a few days of hand wringing when they die en masse, then most liberals and conservatives alike just move on and forget where the power in their home comes from and more important the people who risk everything to make it possible. And we tell jokes about those ignorant West Virginia hillbillies marrying their sisters and running moonshine and life goes on. The more things have changed from the 19th Century, the more they stay the same.

It just kinda burns me when I see good hard working people treated like they're disposable.

 

[mal]

No... not truth. In fact it's so not truth it's amazing.

Your anger is misdirected. There are certain basic safety precautions that the company was required to have in place. They did a cost-benefit analysis and determined it was cheaper to risk lives.

Your anger should be directed at them because it was they who made life more dangerous for people doing such a dangerous job.

And maybe some people hate coal... but saying it's 'the left' is absurd. And thinking that making the job as safe as it can reasonably be is 'messing with' the miners while giving the company a pass seems masochistic.

It also doesn't matter what the rate of violations was for this company as opposed to any other. If there are others with equal numbers or more of equally serious violations and there hasn't been a tragedy, they've been lucky.

Those who Voted for Barry, if they Knew ANYTHING about this almost Unknown Candidate, it was his Hatred for Coal and his Goal to Bankrupt it.

It's one of the FEW things he was CLEAR on.

As for Safety Regs/Violations...

I Need some More Info...

Was this Incident Related to a Violation?... Is that Factually Concluded?...

Is Massey Worse than ALL others?...

Other Industries?

So far I am Hearing Emotion with little by way of Contextual Facts.



peace...

You want more on "safety regulations"?

Start with "Voluntary Compliance".

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04378.pdf

OSHA's voluntary compliance programs

New York Times Covers OSHA Inaction on Diacetyl and Other Hazards The Pump Handle

Earlier in this century, a different administration deregulated many of the most dangerous industries in the name of money. Instead, relying on "Voluntary Compliance". Look it up. Just because the so called "liberal media" refused to report on it, it's all over the internet from reputable sources.

This highlights the ideology difference between the left and the right. The right feels, "People have the responsibility to take care of themselves", the left feels, "Companies who put people in dangerous situations should be responsible for their safety". A huge gulf between ideologies.

Massey subsidiary Aracoma Coal pleaded guilty in 2008 to 10 safety crimes, paid a $2.5 million fine and another $1.7 million for more than 1,300 violations.

Mine had string of safety lapses before explosion - USATODAY.com

Nothing you have Posted makes ANY Distinctions from Massey and any other Mines or Industries...

I'm NOT Denying Violations... You aren't Understanding my Question.

And I'm simply NOT going to try to make you Understand it.



peace...

 

[goldcatt]

I Own one... I Thought it was Called, "Matewan, Bloody Matewan"...

Now I gotta go diggin' in the VHS Boxes...

Have you ever Stumbled back to the Elevated Hotel after a 2AM Breakfast @ Kings Diner in Williamson?...



peace...

Some of mother's family were hard coal miners of NE PA in the late 19th century and early 20th.

It is rumored that some of them were Molly McFlanders, too but I have yet to confirm that, and rather doubt it, too.

Molly MaGuires. Hardly a badge of shame. They fought for their interests in and out of the mine.

Judging from what I remember of those old guys, they seemed like company men to me. I know at least one was managment.

I never ventured into Pennsyltuckey territorywhen I lived there, so I've never been to Williamsport.

I was strictly an East side Keystoner back when I lived there.

Seriously, with NYC and Phila a hour away, and with the mountains on the east side and all the forests in that area, there was no reason anybody on the East side of the state ventured to the West side unless we had a damned good reason to take the drive.

I'm considering moving back there, now.

I sort of miss the Poconos.

There were many organizations that were rather radical in response to the conditions they had to endure. And all too often the local and state law enforcement people allowed them to be intimidated and even killed without any attempt at investigation.

Sure they were radical. I would have been too.

At the Mollies' (and other groups') time, coal was monopolized by a small handful of barons with the assistance of literally bought and paid for local government. Miners were forced to live in company owned and operated towns and be dependent upon the company for every need - for which they paid outrageous sums back to the company, taken directly from their pay.

Sure technically and theoretically they could always leave - but the barons made sure the miners and their offspring had nothing left with which to do so, and often accused those who tried of bogus crimes and beat or hung them as an abject lesson. All with government either participating or looking the other way. It truly was slavery in all but name.

Even very small children were forced to labor picking coal in the bins and many died from disease, from the horrendous conditions or at the hands of the company man who would beat those who were "shirking", often with an iron or steel bar. The adolescents and adults in the mines themselves fared no better.

These groups fought a sort of insurgency not just for labor rights or freedom, but literally for survival. And not just against government, and not just against the corporations, but against all who would enslave them. The fight didn't end there, in fact it's still ongoing in areas from government safety regulations to both public and private coverage for Black Lung and all the various assorted cancers to fighting for pensions as the coal companies go bankrupt and reorganize to avoid them. So that independent mentality that sees no difference between big government and big business enslaving them is still thriving - at least in my neck of the woods.

Tangent there, but to understand why taking partisan potshots at leftys and rightys when it comes to the plight of the coal miners is such crap it's important to understand where they come from and why IMO. Yes, The Bush Administration was the latest to screw them over on the government side with voluntary compliance but the roots go much, much deeper than that.

 

[Coyote]

Those who Voted for Barry, if they Knew ANYTHING about this almost Unknown Candidate, it was his Hatred for Coal and his Goal to Bankrupt it.

It's one of the FEW things he was CLEAR on.

As for Safety Regs/Violations...

I Need some More Info...

Was this Incident Related to a Violation?... Is that Factually Concluded?...

Is Massey Worse than ALL others?...

Other Industries?

So far I am Hearing Emotion with little by way of Contextual Facts.



peace...

You want more on "safety regulations"?

Start with "Voluntary Compliance".

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04378.pdf

OSHA's voluntary compliance programs

New York Times Covers OSHA Inaction on Diacetyl and Other Hazards The Pump Handle

Earlier in this century, a different administration deregulated many of the most dangerous industries in the name of money. Instead, relying on "Voluntary Compliance". Look it up. Just because the so called "liberal media" refused to report on it, it's all over the internet from reputable sources.

This highlights the ideology difference between the left and the right. The right feels, "People have the responsibility to take care of themselves", the left feels, "Companies who put people in dangerous situations should be responsible for their safety". A huge gulf between ideologies.

Massey subsidiary Aracoma Coal pleaded guilty in 2008 to 10 safety crimes, paid a $2.5 million fine and another $1.7 million for more than 1,300 violations.

Mine had string of safety lapses before explosion - USATODAY.com

Nothing you have Posted makes ANY Distinctions from Massey and any other Mines or Industries...

I'm NOT Denying Violations... You aren't Understanding my Question.

And I'm simply NOT going to try to make you Understand it.



peace...

Here are some:

Safety violations posted at Massey mine | Richmond Times-Dispatch

As production at the mine has increased, so, too, have the violations.

In 2008, the mine produced 363,923 tons of coal and received 197 citations. Last year, it produced 1.2 million tons of coal and racked up 515 violations, the highest amount of violations in the past decade. The proposed fines for those violations amount to nearly $900,000.

By comparison, West Virginia's Robinson Run No. 95 mine produced 5.5 million tons of coal and received 158 citations in 2009.

It is not unusual for big underground mines to see hundreds of violations within a year. But Upper Big Branch has at least 50 citations charging the company with "unwarrantable failure" to adhere to safety guidelines.

"I've never seen that many for one mine in a year," said Ellen Smith, editor of Mine Safety & Health News. "If you look at other mines that are the same size or bigger, they do not have the sheer number of 'unwarrantable' citations that this mine has."

On another note....I had forgotten that the Sego mine disaster was Massey as well.

 

[RadiomanATL]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...nother-republican-bush-policy-people-die.html

The fruit of "Voluntary Compliance".

One wonders, what other disasters are waiting because of the failed policy of "Voluntary Compliance"?

Would you accept "Voluntary Compliance" on the nations highways? Waterways?

One more Repubicain mess we will have to clean up.

Dumb shit. Taking a true tragedy and trying to politicize it.

Negged.

Awwwww. Old Rocks negged me for that. Ain't that cute?

 

[RadiomanATL]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...nother-republican-bush-policy-people-die.html

The fruit of "Voluntary Compliance".

One wonders, what other disasters are waiting because of the failed policy of "Voluntary Compliance"?

Would you accept "Voluntary Compliance" on the nations highways? Waterways?

One more Repubicain mess we will have to clean up.

Dumb shit. Taking a true tragedy and trying to politicize it.

Negged.

And I negged you, Radio! I have seen men die on the job because the company ignored safety regulations. This company had hundreds of safety violations in the last two years, and fought in court rather than trying to fix them. Now many of their employees families are bearing the burden of that policy.

The government regulatory agencies are all the workers have to protect them from the greed of a few men. Men who would sacrifice their workers lives rather than pay a few dollars for the neccessary safeguards. When the government fails to perform it's regulatory function because of political influence, we on the factory floor, in the mines, or the woods, pay for that failure with our limbs and lives.

Difference is that you are a stupid shit who seeks any and every opportunity to further your agenda at the cost of basic human decency.

I'm not.

Favor returned asshole.

 

[mal]

You want more on "safety regulations"?

Start with "Voluntary Compliance".

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04378.pdf

OSHA's voluntary compliance programs

New York Times Covers OSHA Inaction on Diacetyl and Other Hazards The Pump Handle

Earlier in this century, a different administration deregulated many of the most dangerous industries in the name of money. Instead, relying on "Voluntary Compliance". Look it up. Just because the so called "liberal media" refused to report on it, it's all over the internet from reputable sources.

This highlights the ideology difference between the left and the right. The right feels, "People have the responsibility to take care of themselves", the left feels, "Companies who put people in dangerous situations should be responsible for their safety". A huge gulf between ideologies.

Massey subsidiary Aracoma Coal pleaded guilty in 2008 to 10 safety crimes, paid a $2.5 million fine and another $1.7 million for more than 1,300 violations.

Mine had string of safety lapses before explosion - USATODAY.com

Nothing you have Posted makes ANY Distinctions from Massey and any other Mines or Industries...

I'm NOT Denying Violations... You aren't Understanding my Question.

And I'm simply NOT going to try to make you Understand it.



peace...

Here are some:

Safety violations posted at Massey mine | Richmond Times-Dispatch

As production at the mine has increased, so, too, have the violations.

In 2008, the mine produced 363,923 tons of coal and received 197 citations. Last year, it produced 1.2 million tons of coal and racked up 515 violations, the highest amount of violations in the past decade. The proposed fines for those violations amount to nearly $900,000.

By comparison, West Virginia's Robinson Run No. 95 mine produced 5.5 million tons of coal and received 158 citations in 2009.

It is not unusual for big underground mines to see hundreds of violations within a year. But Upper Big Branch has at least 50 citations charging the company with "unwarrantable failure" to adhere to safety guidelines.

"I've never seen that many for one mine in a year," said Ellen Smith, editor of Mine Safety & Health News. "If you look at other mines that are the same size or bigger, they do not have the sheer number of 'unwarrantable' citations that this mine has."

On another note....I had forgotten that the Sego mine disaster was Massey as well.

That's MORE Information, but it's NOT Conclusive that Massey is the Worst...

And either way, it's an Industry Standard.

Should it be Fixed?... Yes.

Making Massey out to be More than it is is Silly.

I Hate how Reactionary we are as a Society.

Assholes who have NEVER had ANY Experience with Mines or Mining are now Experts on Safety for the Industry because of ONE Event.

I'm Sure MANY of those Assholes are in Congress right now just Frothing at the Yappers...

Hearings... Anyone say, Hearings?...



peace...