no one gets it all...conservative or liberal...

[Baruch Menachem]

over the last couple of days....there have been threads on several things....

1: the mall owner that refused to rent to the "conservative" vendor. suddenly the vendors rights are a concern but the rights of the mall owner to exercise his right to control his rental properties is attacked? am i mistaken in that normally conservatives would support the private property owner? when did that change?

2: the police union speaking out against obama.....well normally unions are evil...except when they speak out against the potus? which way is it?

3. the people who have yellow ribbons on their suv's are the same people who walk by a disabled vets booth and do not donate. no scientific evidence but just watching people and what they do.

4: you cannot have a "if you cant feed them...dont breed them sticker" right next to your pro life sticker. or you really for starving babies that you force others to have?

do conservatives have any core values? or are those core values just more blah blah rah rah....?

All very good points.

In order

1)No one doubts the mall owner has the obligation to the share holder to protect the investment. And free speech is never free. If you are doing your political thing on someone else's property and cause them a loss, you should go, no question.

However, I think the issue here is not the mall owner exercising their property rights, but the fact that pressure groups wrote letters demanding the mall owner shut the kiosk down. It is normal tactics for lefty pressure groups to go after a third party and cause them pain in order to get their goal against someone they dislike.

They mall owner folded like a house of cards, which raises ire because that kind of cowardice raises the cost of free speech for everyone. One strong man can face an army, like that chinese dude who slowed the tanks moving into Beijing, but also one coward can destroy everything, like the guy who showed the Persians the way around the Spartans at Thermople.

2) Unions are pests. They take tons of money and the leadership goes on fancy vacations and the membership gets squat.... except.... The job of the union is to be an advocate for the individual member against the weight of the boss. Lawyers the same way, they suck up money like black holes, but when you need one to slow down the path of injustice, they are there not to be rational or intelligent, but to serve the needs of the membership.
I grew up in a union household, which I think is rare on the conservative side of this board. And we got the services of the union being irrational pit bulls on at least one occasion. That is what they are there for. I think most conservatives miss that point.

OTOH, I think it odd that liberal strongholds like MA and NY also have the largest number of public employee unions. Unions are usually strongest with the membership when the bosses are the most blind and stupid. Something seriously wrong with a city government when police, who are probably the folks who would ordinarily hate unions most passionately, are members of a really militant union.
So I agree most conservatives here miss what is going on. The union is earning a paycheck, for once.

3) Military supporting folk have real issues with fake soldiers. (I admit I was never in the military myself, I am just basing this on conversation) The Fallstaff types really get under their skins. The military also has huge support structures in the VA (hard to deal with at the best of times, but there all the same) than any veteran can use as part of what he earned through service. The yellow ribbon types believe A) if you really were part of the military you would not be homeless. The kind of person who goes in and gets through a tour just plain does not have that personality. Druggies, alkies, sociaopaths.. usually wash out in the first weeks of basic. B) if you did develop problems, there is help all over the place, from your immediate superior officer (Who gets graded on how he handles his personnel) to the whole of the pentagon and VA support staff. C) The term soldiering has been around since..... before their was any other words. The first lesson you get in survival skills is how to work the system for yourself.

So the yellow ribbon folks are absolutely sure the bums who claim veteran status are lying, and what is worse, insulting their intelligence and service. Which is a very good stop for any charity you might be feeling.

4) The conservative position is that the brain rules the gonads, rather than vice versa. Making a baby is a choice. If you choose to make the baby, you are responsible for it. You don't kill it because it is inconvenient, and you don't make it unless you can be responsible for it. Just doing something because it feels good to you, and damn the consequences to a third party is the depth of injustice and evil. By any moral standard. One of the reasons that conservatives hate the pro abortion types so passionately is the belief that babies are not people until they are convenient as a tool or a weapon seems to be so passionately held by some of the liberals. (As seen from the conservative view)

So these positions are not in opposition, but in support. You are responsible for what you do, you don't do things unless you can be responsible, and if their are consequences to what you do, you take care of them.

 

[JBeukema]

You have backpedaled on everything. First you said women should be forced to carry their kids as a form of punishment. You backpedaled on that. Then you said that those who aren't rich enough in your eyes should have their children taken away. You backpedaled on that and tried to act like you were only talking about drug users.


You always end up backpedaling because you say stupid, ignorance things without thinking. Then you accuse me of 'being dishonest by telling the truth'

 

[KittenKoder]

You have backpedaled on everything. First you said women should be forced to carry their kids as a form of punishment. You backpedaled on that. Then you said that those who aren't rich enough in your eyes should have their children taken away. You backpedaled on that and tried to act like you were only talking about drug users.


You always end up backpedaling because you say stupid, ignorance things without thinking. Then you accuse me of 'being dishonest by telling the truth'

Pssst ... Strolling, you were right again ... no one gets it.

JB, do you speaky Engrish?

 

[JBeukema]

Once again, all your ignorant little mind has is pathetic attempts to attack JB because you have no intelligent or meaningful response once your ignorance and stupidity are exposed.

 

[xsited1]

over the last couple of days....there have been threads on several things....

1: the mall owner that refused to rent to the "conservative" vendor. suddenly the vendors rights are a concern but the rights of the mall owner to exercise his right to control his rental properties is attacked? am i mistaken in that normally conservatives would support the private property owner? when did that change?

2: the police union speaking out against obama.....well normally unions are evil...except when they speak out against the potus? which way is it?

3. the people who have yellow ribbons on their suv's are the same people who walk by a disabled vets booth and do not donate. no scientific evidence but just watching people and what they do.

4: you cannot have a "if you cant feed them...dont breed them sticker" right next to your pro life sticker. or you really for starving babies that you force others to have?

do conservatives have any core values? or are those core values just more blah blah rah rah....?

I always appreciate the 'liberal redneck' view of the world. It makes me .

1. Private property owner rights should be respected. However, there is a double standard when it comes to liberal/conservative, black/white, atheist/christian. The double standard is the problem.

2. The police union, a strong supporter of Obama, is finally noticing that he's oozing with stupid. Bravo.

3. That's not true. You can always blame the drugs.

4. Murder is still murder. And if you can't feed them, put them up for adoption. People will even pay you.

 

[Liability]

4: you cannot have a "if you cant feed them...dont breed them sticker" right next to your pro life sticker. or you really for starving babies that you force others to have?

What are you babbling about?

do conservatives have any core values?

NO

Conservatism is not an ideology. Conservatism is reactionism, nothing more.

Flatly wrong.

Conservatism, properly understood, which JB clearly does not, is not reactionism. It is indeed a political ideology and set of very basic, fundamental core principles and values.

 

[JBeukema]

Conservatism, properly understood, which JB clearly does not, is not reactionism. It is indeed a political ideology and set of very basic, fundamental core principles and values.

That it is not. Conservatism is merely the reactionary effort to preserve (conserve) the staus quo or restore the status quo ante. That is all conservatism means.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

This thread illustrates the huge advantage to being in the center.

 

[Liability]

This thread illustrates the huge advantage to being in the center.

Not if you are the example.

 

[Liability]

Conservatism, properly understood, which JB clearly does not, is not reactionism. It is indeed a political ideology and set of very basic, fundamental core principles and values.

That it is not. Conservatism is merely the reactionary effort to preserve (conserve) the staus quo or restore the status quo ante. That is all conservatism means.

Only in your entirely close-minded universe.

IF you ever manage to work you way out of the dark and ignorant world of the shallow preconceived notions in which you dwell, you might yet discover that conservatism is NOT just about the maintaining of the status quo.

For instance, the status quo today is that we have sailed WELL out of bounds set by the Constitution. No conservative wants to maintain this situation. We want to dramatically change course and abandon the status quo of 2009.

Just another simple illustration of how wrong you are.

That you don't grasp the principles of conservatism does not mean that conservatism isn't founded upon bedrock principles. It is.

 

[Big Black Dog]

no one gets it all...conservative or liberal...

When all is said and done, more will be said then done. Your post proves that. Excellent post.

 

[JBeukema]

Only in your entirely close-minded universe.

Do feel free to get a dictionary.

IF you ever manage to work you way out of the dark and ignorant world of the shallow preconceived notions in which you dwell, you might yet discover that conservatism is NOT just about the maintaining of the status quo.

I did not say it was, and your a liar for trying to misrepresent my words. Now that you have shown your dishonest nature with this little strawman, I shall waste no more time with a liar such as you after this post.

For instance, the status quo today is that we have sailed WELL out of bounds set by the Constitution. No conservative wants to maintain this situation. We want to dramatically change course and abandon the status quo of 2009.

Do see the second half of my statement and stop being a lying troll.

That you don't grasp the principles of conservatism does not mean that conservatism isn't founded upon bedrock principles. It is.

Conservatism is the position of tyrants who have lost or are losing their power and of the affluent who have lost their influence, and also of their useful idiots.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/82132-anti-lifers-21.html#post1359805

Begin reading at post #47. I already had to teach Edit this same subject.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/82008-why-is-it-4.html#post1347306

 

[Liability]

Only in your entirely close-minded universe.

Do feel free to get a dictionary.

I use mine and actually understand what it conveys! YOU should try that.

IF you ever manage to work you way out of the dark and ignorant world of the shallow preconceived notions in which you dwell, you might yet discover that conservatism is NOT just about the maintaining of the status quo.

I did not say it was, and your a liar for trying to misrepresent my words. Now that you have shown your dishonest nature with this little strawman, I shall waste no more time with a liar such as you after this post.

Except, of coursse, I was not in the slightest dishonest. That claim, by you, is a lie. No surprise. You DID say it. Here, your exact words: "Conservatism is merely the reactionary effort to preserve (conserve) the staus quo or restore the status quo ante. That is all conservatism means." And you remain wrong. Conservatives CERTAINLY do not wish to maintain this present day status quo. And there are many sets of status quo ante to which we also do not wish to "return." Conservatism, in reality, means a GREAT DEAL MORE than just your petty allusions to the status quo or status quo ante. What guides conservatism (and apparently mystifies you) is a dedication to principles that transcend mere notions of status quo or status quo ante.

For instance, the status quo today is that we have sailed WELL out of bounds set by the Constitution. No conservative wants to maintain this situation. We want to dramatically change course and abandon the status quo of 2009.

Do see the second half of my statement and stop being a lying troll.

You're so precious when you whine. I just finiished ADDRESSING the second part of your earlier quote. My mere failure, earlier, to discuss that second half is not "lying" you dope.

That you don't grasp the principles of conservatism does not mean that conservatism isn't founded upon bedrock principles. It is.

Conservatism is the position of tyrants who have lost or are losing their power and of the affluent who have lost their influence, and also of their useful idiots.

Bull. That's just your latest lie. YOUR ignorant and petty daffynition is not in ANY WAY close to the truth.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/82132-anti-lifers-21.html#post1359805

Begin reading at post #47. I already had to teach Edit this same subject.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/82008-why-is-it-4.html#post1347306

You cannot teach. You can only offer your own limited and biased and erroneous views. You remain quite clearly wrong. You are pig-headed and narrow-minded, but wrong all the same.


EDIT:

I had, as it turns out, previously read your imbecilic post number 47. Why you'd cite to your own imbecility is a mystery. It was absurdly stupid when first offered. It doesn't get any better with aging.

 

[JBeukema]

Here, your exact words: "Conservatism is merely the reactionary effort to preserve (conserve) the staus quo or restore the status quo ante"

So now you begin to backpedal.

Post 30

IF you ever manage to work you way out of the dark and ignorant world of the shallow preconceived notions in which you dwell, you might yet discover that conservatism is NOT just about the maintaining of the status quo.

A blatant misrepresentation of what I said- proof of your dishonest nature.


.

That is all conservatism means." And you remain wrong. Conservatives CERTAINLY do not wish to maintain this present day status quo.

Again you continue your lies and dishonest misrepresentation of what I have said.

What guides conservatism (and apparently mystifies you) is a dedication to principles that transcend mere notions of status quo or status quo ante.

Again, do get a dictionary. Conservatism = resistance to change. Conservatism refers to no doctrine, ideology, or principles.

Conservatism is the position of tyrants who have lost or are losing their power and of the affluent who have lost their influence, and also of their useful idiots.

Bull. That's just your latest lie. YOUR ignorant and petty daffynition is not in ANY WAY close to the truth.

'
Simply calling it a lie does not make it so. Your pathetic attacks and complete lack of meaningful response speak volumes. Your words ring as hollow as your head.

You cannot teach. You can only offer your own limited and biased and erroneous views. You remain quite clearly wrong. You are pig-headed and narrow-minded, but wrong all the same.

I noticed you never presented any 'conservative values' or ideology. in fact, you never did anything but bitch and whine and cry because you don't like the reality JB has brought before your eyes. You are norrow-mided and ignorant, with no knowledge of basic principles of politics and no comprehension of common political ideologies.That is why you continue to be so defensive.

Conservatism = Reactionism.

 

[Xenophon]

The biggest trouble I know of is people constantly labeling each other, thus they try to put them in a box and then attack them saying if you are conservative/liberal you must now defend/attack religion, abortion, morality, taxes ect.

I have spent my entire time on this board fighting against these stupid steryotypes and attempts at pigeonholing, and it was starting to let up.

NOW, since our latest invasion its worse then ever, this board is becoming an us/them two camps bullshit, and threads like this make it happen bones.

Lines like this is what I mean:

as for the kool aid remark ..that is just the kind of remark i expected when i posted the thread...personal attacks over facts.....the conservative way.

I feel the same way about threads that have 'hey liberals' or 'liberals defend this' or other such bullshit in their titles.

Its devisive babyshit and we all known it, and don't even attempt to justify it to me with what someone posted, EVERYONE is different and NOBODY is reponsible for the actions of others.

 

[DiveCon]

Politics, is the root of all evil...forget money!!!!

and money is at the root of all politics

 

[strollingbones]

The biggest trouble I know of is people constantly labeling each other, thus they try to put them in a box and then attack them saying if you are conservative/liberal you must now defend/attack religion, abortion, morality, taxes ect.

I have spent my entire time on this board fighting against these stupid steryotypes and attempts at pigeonholing, and it was starting to let up.

NOW, since our latest invasion its worse then ever, this board is becoming an us/them two camps bullshit, and threads like this make it happen bones.

Lines like this is what I mean:

as for the kool aid remark ..that is just the kind of remark i expected when i posted the thread...personal attacks over facts.....the conservative way. [/quote]

I feel the same way about threads that have 'hey liberals' or 'liberals defend this' or other such bullshit in their titles.

Its devisive babyshit and we all known it, and don't even attempt to justify it to me with what someone posted, EVERYONE is different and NOBODY is reponsible for the actions of others.

this is a post i would make regardless of the hannity people....and you didnt post the remark i was replying to...now did you?

seems you got a bit of bias going there....

lets post it all, why not?

more blah blah blah from the lunatic left?? have some kool aid in yer coffee whydonchya
__________________
that was from willow? now i am the one that is being bias? or calling names? or being partisan? i dont think so, i was simply replying to her attack on me...and liberals in general...sorry you have a problem with people who dont take shit from conservatives

 

[JBeukema]

Bones, check your tags....

 

[strollingbones]

what the fuck is a tag and why am i checking it?

 

[JBeukema]

Because your quotes are all fucked up and you didn't even bother wrapping quote tags around Willow's words.