No More F's?

[antagon]

my reflex was to pine over another move to lower the bar in education. reading the I to F mechanism, i find that it is agreeable. the issue is that a student who receives an F on a test or something has probably been failed by the educators and their environment to some degree, in addition to their own struggles. i think all of these factors need to be given a second chance to get it right, and failing that, the student still comes away with an F as before.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Unless a student's placement is totally wrong, they need to work damn hard to earn an 'F'. They need to miss many assignments or at least 3 major ones. They'd also need to bomb tests repeatedly at the 30% level and below.

If a student does not have a major learning problems-mental or physical, does the work and completes their tests, it's nigh impossible to 'fail.' They may be on the cusp between a 'D' and 'F', but the completion of work will put them at the 'D'.

I don't see how more time will change those who choose not to do the work or not write an essay response on tests.

Why do you call not turning in assignments, and complete failure on test, work? All a student has to do to accomplish this is nothing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If one assumes that the purpose of education is to educate, rather than to GRADE the student, then this makes sense.

One of the reasons I no longer teach, however, is because I used to flunk students.

I simply refused to pass people just because they played sports, had parents active in the PTA or whatever reason people (usally the administration) were using to pressure me to pass students who hadn't learned the material.

I was/am so out of step with most theories of education, folks.

I still think the only purpose of a teacher is to teach his or her subject matter to the kids.

We're not life coaches, morality police, prison guards, janitors, or role models.

Demanding that we do what the parents are supposed to be doing, is just putting a burden on teachers that we're mostly ill equipped to carry.

If the kid didn't want to learn what I was teaching, they could sleep or they could leave, but they could not interupt me or molest their fellow students.

Very few administrators were sympathic to my educational modus operandi.

Ironically, most of the students truly interested in learning the subjects I taught were sympathetic to my propensity of throwing disruptive students out of class.

You have just explained what is wrong with the entire school system, and have made the best argument I have ever seen for abolishing the Department of Education.

 

[Luissa]

The current system they have is not working, I guess they could do nothing.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Isn't this how colleges do it?

Not the two I went to. GCCC and FSU

Nor the two my brother went to. FIT and Vanderbilt.

 

[Annie]

Unless a student's placement is totally wrong, they need to work damn hard to earn an 'F'. They need to miss many assignments or at least 3 major ones. They'd also need to bomb tests repeatedly at the 30% level and below.

If a student does not have a major learning problems-mental or physical, does the work and completes their tests, it's nigh impossible to 'fail.' They may be on the cusp between a 'D' and 'F', but the completion of work will put them at the 'D'.

I don't see how more time will change those who choose not to do the work or not write an essay response on tests.

Why do you call not turning in assignments, and complete failure on test, work? All a student has to do to accomplish this is nothing.

Actually it is. Most teachers and schools give students much in school time to complete 'homework', as they're conditioned to 'understand' that most students have so many other things to do after school time ends. Thus, the students must actively not do the work in time given, not give up any time from after school or show up for before school resource help. They must ignore all that is discussed in class and fail to put anything that was discussed on paper during a test. To me, that is work.

 

[Ravi]

Isn't this how colleges do it?

Not the two I went to. GCCC and FSU

Nor the two my brother went to. FIT and Vanderbilt.

OMFG YOU'RE A SEMINOLE!!! I knew there was something seriously fucked up about you.

When I went to college you had a certain amount of time to drop a class with no penalty and a refund and another amount of time to drop it with a grade of Incomplete, no refund, and the chance to take it again.

This is also how it works at my daughter's college.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Unless a student's placement is totally wrong, they need to work damn hard to earn an 'F'. They need to miss many assignments or at least 3 major ones. They'd also need to bomb tests repeatedly at the 30% level and below.

If a student does not have a major learning problems-mental or physical, does the work and completes their tests, it's nigh impossible to 'fail.' They may be on the cusp between a 'D' and 'F', but the completion of work will put them at the 'D'.

I don't see how more time will change those who choose not to do the work or not write an essay response on tests.

Why do you call not turning in assignments, and complete failure on test, work? All a student has to do to accomplish this is nothing.

Actually it is. Most teachers and schools give students much in school time to complete 'homework', as they're conditioned to 'understand' that most students have so many other things to do after school time ends. Thus, the students must actively not do the work in time given, not give up any time from after school or show up for before school resource help. They must ignore all that is discussed in class and fail to put anything that was discussed on paper during a test. To me, that is work.

Trust me on this, it isn't.

 

[Luissa]

Isn't this how colleges do it?

Not the two I went to. GCCC and FSU

Nor the two my brother went to. FIT and Vanderbilt.

OMFG YOU'RE A SEMINOLE!!! I knew there was something seriously fucked up about you.

When I went to college you had a certain amount of time to drop a class with no penalty and a refund and another amount of time to drop it with a grade of Incomplete, no refund, and the chance to take it again.

This is also how it works at my daughter's college.

You can do the same at my college.
These kids are not going to Vanderbilt, they are going to school, that obviously has a broken system. I would rather a student take an incomplete, and make it up, then just fail out of the system. Certain programs work in certain areas, and not all schools are the same.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Isn't this how colleges do it?

Not the two I went to. GCCC and FSU

Nor the two my brother went to. FIT and Vanderbilt.

OMFG YOU'RE A SEMINOLE!!! I knew there was something seriously fucked up about you.

When I went to college you had a certain amount of time to drop a class with no penalty and a refund and another amount of time to drop it with a grade of Incomplete, no refund, and the chance to take it again.

This is also how it works at my daughter's college.

It works that way at most colleges, but after that point you have to do the work, or fail. There are exceptions to that under extraordinary circumstances, but this policy is a blanket opportunity to procrastinate and not suffer for it.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Isn't this how colleges do it?

Not the two I went to. GCCC and FSU

Nor the two my brother went to. FIT and Vanderbilt.

OMFG YOU'RE A SEMINOLE!!! I knew there was something seriously fucked up about you.

When I went to college you had a certain amount of time to drop a class with no penalty and a refund and another amount of time to drop it with a grade of Incomplete, no refund, and the chance to take it again.

This is also how it works at my daughter's college.

Yeah, but thats taking alternative classes. Thats not an option here according to the article. They just get more time to give the same class another shot.

When I was in high-school, changing classes was an option too. The first two weeks you had the option of backing out of some of the HS classes if you felt you were getting in over your head.

 

[Annie]

Why do you call not turning in assignments, and complete failure on test, work? All a student has to do to accomplish this is nothing.

Actually it is. Most teachers and schools give students much in school time to complete 'homework', as they're conditioned to 'understand' that most students have so many other things to do after school time ends. Thus, the students must actively not do the work in time given, not give up any time from after school or show up for before school resource help. They must ignore all that is discussed in class and fail to put anything that was discussed on paper during a test. To me, that is work.

Trust me on this, it isn't.

Then you haven't taught. Trust ME, it IS.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Also, I'm only like half-seminole.

I went to a branch campus. Actually was a better educational experience. Smaller classes, with other students whose average age was higher. Meaning that they were more cognizant of the stakes involved with obtaining a higher education. Less slackers and partiers.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I attended both grade school and high school in Virginia. Now that they have done away with "F" as a grade, it looks like it's safe for me to return and complete my studies...

 

[Wry Catcher]

Not everyone learns the same way. Yet, we continue to teach kids as if they do. For this reason we too often teach kids to hate school, and hating school is not always a result of failure.

 

[Annie]

Not everyone learns the same way. Yet, we continue to teach kids as if they do. For this reason we too often teach kids to hate school, and hating school is not always a result of failure.

So deep and enlightening. Haven't a clue how to respond beyond that.

 

[Ravi]

Not the two I went to. GCCC and FSU

Nor the two my brother went to. FIT and Vanderbilt.

OMFG YOU'RE A SEMINOLE!!! I knew there was something seriously fucked up about you.

When I went to college you had a certain amount of time to drop a class with no penalty and a refund and another amount of time to drop it with a grade of Incomplete, no refund, and the chance to take it again.

This is also how it works at my daughter's college.

You can do the same at my college.
These kids are not going to Vanderbilt, they are going to school, that obviously has a broken system. I would rather a student take an incomplete, and make it up, then just fail out of the system. Certain programs work in certain areas, and not all schools are the same.

Exactly! This is what their website said before this decision was made:

Sunday's Washington Post article about WPHS [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/13/AR2010111304100.html] erroneously reported that West Potomac High School no longer gives “F” grades to students. The school may assign students an incomplete (“I”) for a quarter grade if the students have not mastered the content. However, if students do not satisfactorily complete the course requirements by the end of the next quarter, students will be assigned an “F.” An incomplete will not be given as a final grade.

West Potomac High School

It sounds much more benign than how it was reported. This is pretty much the policy our public schools have and I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly is wrong with it. Everyone here seems to be under the impression that all kids that don't do well in school are slackers.

 

[Annie]

OMFG YOU'RE A SEMINOLE!!! I knew there was something seriously fucked up about you.

When I went to college you had a certain amount of time to drop a class with no penalty and a refund and another amount of time to drop it with a grade of Incomplete, no refund, and the chance to take it again.

This is also how it works at my daughter's college.

You can do the same at my college.
These kids are not going to Vanderbilt, they are going to school, that obviously has a broken system. I would rather a student take an incomplete, and make it up, then just fail out of the system. Certain programs work in certain areas, and not all schools are the same.

Exactly! This is what their website said before this decision was made:

Sunday's Washington Post article about WPHS [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/13/AR2010111304100.html] erroneously reported that West Potomac High School no longer gives “F” grades to students. The school may assign students an incomplete (“I”) for a quarter grade if the students have not mastered the content. However, if students do not satisfactorily complete the course requirements by the end of the next quarter, students will be assigned an “F.” An incomplete will not be given as a final grade.

West Potomac High School

It sounds much more benign than how it was reported. This is pretty much the policy our public schools have and I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly is wrong with it. Everyone here seems to be under the impression that all kids that don't do well in school are slackers.

Ravi, in reality all mentally/physically healthy kids are slackers if failing. Now that doesn't mean that if they want to turn it around, teachers/schools shouldn't be willing to meet them half way. Truth is, high school age kids are developing, those involved with them should 'get that.'

Now if I were to come into contact with a jr that had blown through their earlier years, now wanting to bring up their GPA, what would I'd advise? Buckle down, consider summer school for added courses. If available, (almost always), take AP or honor classes and ace. Get any help you need, most AP/honors instructors are available near 24/7 online. Go to websites that help you prepare, there are a slew of them. Ace those tests!

 

[Ravi]

You can do the same at my college.
These kids are not going to Vanderbilt, they are going to school, that obviously has a broken system. I would rather a student take an incomplete, and make it up, then just fail out of the system. Certain programs work in certain areas, and not all schools are the same.

Exactly! This is what their website said before this decision was made:

Sunday's Washington Post article about WPHS [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/13/AR2010111304100.html] erroneously reported that West Potomac High School no longer gives “F” grades to students. The school may assign students an incomplete (“I”) for a quarter grade if the students have not mastered the content. However, if students do not satisfactorily complete the course requirements by the end of the next quarter, students will be assigned an “F.” An incomplete will not be given as a final grade.

West Potomac High School

It sounds much more benign than how it was reported. This is pretty much the policy our public schools have and I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly is wrong with it. Everyone here seems to be under the impression that all kids that don't do well in school are slackers.

Ravi, in reality all mentally/physically healthy kids are slackers if failing. Now that doesn't mean that if they want to turn it around, teachers/schools shouldn't be willing to meet them half way. Truth is, high school age kids are developing, those involved with them should 'get that.'

Now if I were to come into contact with a jr that had blown through their earlier years, now wanting to bring up their GPA, what would I'd advise? Buckle down, consider summer school for added courses. If available, (almost always), take AP or honor classes and ace. Get any help you need, most AP/honors instructors are available near 24/7 online. Go to websites that help you prepare, there are a slew of them. Ace those tests!

I'd say a large portion of high school students are far from mentally healthy for their entire high school career.

 

[chanel]

It seems cheaters were being rewarded as well. Bad bad precedent.