No More F's?

chanel

Silver Member
Jun 8, 2009
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People's Republic of NJ
Fairfax County's West Potomac High School recently shifted to a new grading policy that, while not eliminating F's, aims to reduce their incidence. As The Post's Donna St. George reported, the student report cards mailed out this month didn't contain F's but marks of "I" for incomplete. Under the policy, students will be given additional months to learn the subject matter, complete the required work and get a passing grade. If they fail to do that, the "I" would then be converted to an "F."

Traditionalists are discomfited by the change and the message it sends to students. Shouldn't young people learn that there are consequences for not doing a good job? Are teachers losing the powerful tool of failure as a means to motivate students? And, what about the fairness to the students who put in the effort to do the work on time? Grade inflation is already pernicious, what with weighted student scores, elimination of class ranking and the proliferation of A's on college campuses. Indeed, the loss of credibility in how students are graded - as evidenced by the disparity in how they test on state and national tests - is one reason for the push for common national standards and accountability.

A test for the F

I'm curious whether the students will be expected to learn the material on their own, or if the district will be providing tutors to assist the students with the makeup work. It sounds to me like the teachers will be forced into passing everyone.

Comments?
 
I'm also curious about what this teaches young people. Are they going to assume that their employer will be a flexible with work deadlines.

I wonder how long I'd last in my work if I didn't bother to stick to an agreed timescale for work.

Seriously, schools need to prepare kids for the real world, not pander to their lazy asses.
 
Isn't this how colleges do it?

I don't know...school is for learning and perhaps this will actually get kids to learn.
 
Unless a student's placement is totally wrong, they need to work damn hard to earn an 'F'. They need to miss many assignments or at least 3 major ones. They'd also need to bomb tests repeatedly at the 30% level and below.

If a student does not have a major learning problems-mental or physical, does the work and completes their tests, it's nigh impossible to 'fail.' They may be on the cusp between a 'D' and 'F', but the completion of work will put them at the 'D'.

I don't see how more time will change those who choose not to do the work or not write an essay response on tests.
 
True. It just seems ludicrous to me to tell kids who already failing; "Here's the Physics book. Teach yourself" Unless these kids are mandated to come after school or on weekends, extra time won't mean a damned thing.
 
True. It just seems ludicrous to me to tell kids who already failing; "Here's the Physics book. Teach yourself" Unless these kids are mandated to come after school or on weekends, extra time won't mean a damned thing.

I'll agree if they are trying, the only intervention that would work is alternative teaching. Still, barring the teacher being unreasonable-which would result in a class of multiple failures, the placement is likely wrong.

If a kid has the ability to master the material, shows up daily, does their work, failure is not an option. Now if the student can't read within a couple of grades of grade level, can't write, then the placement is wrong. Obviously I'm addressing secondary student levels.
 
If one assumes that the purpose of education is to educate, rather than to GRADE the student, then this makes sense.

One of the reasons I no longer teach, however, is because I used to flunk students.

I simply refused to pass people just because they played sports, had parents active in the PTA or whatever reason people (usally the administration) were using to pressure me to pass students who hadn't learned the material.

I was/am so out of step with most theories of education, folks.

I still think the only purpose of a teacher is to teach his or her subject matter to the kids.

We're not life coaches, morality police, prison guards, janitors, or role models.

Demanding that we do what the parents are supposed to be doing, is just putting a burden on teachers that we're mostly ill equipped to carry.

If the kid didn't want to learn what I was teaching, they could sleep or they could leave, but they could not interupt me or molest their fellow students.

Very few administrators were sympathic to my educational modus operandi.

Ironically, most of the students truly interested in learning the subjects I taught were sympathetic to my propensity of throwing disruptive students out of class.
 
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If one assumes that the purpose of education is to educate, rather than to GRADE the student, then this makes sense.

One of the reasons I no longer teach, however, is because I used to flunk students.

I simply refused to pass people just because they played sports, had parents active in the PTA or whatever reason people (usally the administration) were using to pressure me to pass students who hadn't learned the material.

I was/am so out of step with most theories of education, folks.

I still think the only purpose of a teacher is to teach his or her subject matter to the kids.

We're not life coaches, morality police, prison guards, janitors, or role models.

Demanding that we do what the parents are supposed to be doing, is just putting a burden on teachers that we're mostly ill equipped to carry.

If the kid didn't want to learn what I was teaching, they could sleep or they could leave, but they could not interupt me or molest their fellow students.

Very few administrators were sympathic to my educational modus operandi.

Ironically, most of the students truly interested in learning the subjects I taught were sympathetic to my propensity of throwing disruptive students out of class.

You just backed up my earlier points, leading to where the 'F's' are coming from. The kids are not doing the work, often not coming to class, and bomb tests that they do complete. They are unlikely to show more effort given more time. Then will the board really turn the "I" to an "F"? I've always refused to change grades without valid reason, if an administrator does, it's their change and contrary to the grade book kept.
 
Isn't this how colleges do it?

I don't know...school is for learning and perhaps this will actually get kids to learn.

Yea.... they're learning to be responsible adults.... by handing their shit in on time.

Personally, I think cutting kids this kind of slack does not help them in the long run. Bad message to teach kids.
 
If one assumes that the purpose of education is to educate, rather than to GRADE the student, then this makes sense.

One of the reasons I no longer teach, however, is because I used to flunk students.

I simply refused to pass people just because they played sports, had parents active in the PTA or whatever reason people (usally the administration) were using to pressure me to pass students who hadn't learned the material.

I was/am so out of step with most theories of education, folks.

I still think the only purpose of a teacher is to teach his or her subject matter to the kids.

We're not life coaches, morality police, prison guards, janitors, or role models.

Demanding that we do what the parents are supposed to be doing, is just putting a burden on teachers that we're mostly ill equipped to carry.

If the kid didn't want to learn what I was teaching, they could sleep or they could leave, but they could not interupt me or molest their fellow students.

Very few administrators were sympathic to my educational modus operandi.

Ironically, most of the students truly interested in learning the subjects I taught were sympathetic to my propensity of throwing disruptive students out of class.

You just backed up my earlier points, leading to where the 'F's' are coming from. The kids are not doing the work, often not coming to class, and bomb tests that they do complete. They are unlikely to show more effort given more time. Then will the board really turn the "I" to an "F"? I've always refused to change grades without valid reason, if an administrator does, it's their change and contrary to the grade book kept.
That is what I've read...they will turn the I into an F.

And don't kid yourself, colleges aren't going to take someone that didn't actually graduate because they've been given incompletes.

I personally would rather see them learn something (the students) than be passed along to bog down the first year of college with remedial classes because most graduated students didn't learn what they were supposed to learn in high school.
 
Unless a student's placement is totally wrong, they need to work damn hard to earn an 'F'. They need to miss many assignments or at least 3 major ones. They'd also need to bomb tests repeatedly at the 30% level and below.

If a student does not have a major learning problems-mental or physical, does the work and completes their tests, it's nigh impossible to 'fail.' They may be on the cusp between a 'D' and 'F', but the completion of work will put them at the 'D'.

I don't see how more time will change those who choose not to do the work or not write an essay response on tests.


I agree. The majority of kids that would earn an F in a class, will likely still earn an F after extra months of instruction.
 
If one assumes that the purpose of education is to educate, rather than to GRADE the student, then this makes sense.

One of the reasons I no longer teach, however, is because I used to flunk students.

I simply refused to pass people just because they played sports, had parents active in the PTA or whatever reason people (usally the administration) were using to pressure me to pass students who hadn't learned the material.

I was/am so out of step with most theories of education, folks.

I still think the only purpose of a teacher is to teach his or her subject matter to the kids.

We're not life coaches, morality police, prison guards, janitors, or role models.

Demanding that we do what the parents are supposed to be doing, is just putting a burden on teachers that we're mostly ill equipped to carry.

If the kid didn't want to learn what I was teaching, they could sleep or they could leave, but they could not interupt me or molest their fellow students.

Very few administrators were sympathic to my educational modus operandi.

Ironically, most of the students truly interested in learning the subjects I taught were sympathetic to my propensity of throwing disruptive students out of class.

You just backed up my earlier points, leading to where the 'F's' are coming from. The kids are not doing the work, often not coming to class, and bomb tests that they do complete. They are unlikely to show more effort given more time. Then will the board really turn the "I" to an "F"? I've always refused to change grades without valid reason, if an administrator does, it's their change and contrary to the grade book kept.
That is what I've read...they will turn the I into an F.

And don't kid yourself, colleges aren't going to take someone that didn't actually graduate because they've been given incompletes.

I personally would rather see them learn something (the students) than be passed along to bog down the first year of college with remedial classes because most graduated students didn't learn what they were supposed to learn in high school.

Ravi, I'm a very dedicated teacher. Anyone who's been here for some time realizes that I got to school at least an hour and a half early. I'd prepare for an hour and let kids into my room a half hour early to work, give help, or talk to the few that needed it. I gladly stayed after school and made sure they could email me at home, to help them with papers or questions they had while doing homework.

Unless a child really didn't belong in the class, (probably 3 just weren't capable in 11 years of teaching), there was no reason for any failures. Some lower IQ kids and others with learning disabilities probably wouldn't earn C's without extra credit, but they certainly wouldn't have failed. Even the 3 that were placed wrong, were modified for, thus passed. (Problem with parochial schools and true special needs kids, no services and no staff support).

As my original response being that the students earned a "F", they worked for it. To think that extra time would change that? Unlikely. On the other hand, let's say it was a temporary hardship or distraction, perhaps a very ill or dying parent? Then the "I" was made for just such a case, nothing new there at college or secondary level.
 
Ah, but you have always worked for private schools. There is a huge difference in the population of a private school and a public school.

It is possible that problems in one year disappear the next with many high school students. The incomplete grade isn't some kind of reward as it is being presented here. We have had this grade in our public school systems for quite some time and I personally know some students (friends of my children) that were able to overcome an I and turn it into a B, C, or D.

In college if you drop a course by a certain date you are given an incomplete with the chance to take it again.
 
Ah, but you have always worked for private schools. There is a huge difference in the population of a private school and a public school.

It is possible that problems in one year disappear the next with many high school students. The incomplete grade isn't some kind of reward as it is being presented here. We have had this grade in our public school systems for quite some time and I personally know some students (friends of my children) that were able to overcome an I and turn it into a B, C, or D.

In college if you drop a course by a certain date you are given an incomplete with the chance to take it again.

Not quite true. I taught in public schools for 3 years before the parochial and once again am back in public schools. My own kids went to public high schools and I've extensive time spent in universities at both public and private.

I do know how the system works. There's not the great differences you'd expect between public and private student bodies, except for self-contained special ed classes and the lack of support and staffing in the private. I would seriously question parents of special needs to send their kids to private schools, especially those with tuition under $15k per year!
 
Yep. Whether people like it or not, grades matter.

In general, the only students who fail completely in high school are truants. They don't understand the material because they are not there. They routinely miss assignments and get overwhelmed. Piling that on top of another semester could actually do more harm than good. Sometimes it's better to start fresh with a new marking period. But f the truancy isn't addressed, of course the cycle will continue.
 
The power of public opinion:

West Potomac High School Principal Cliff Hardison announced Friday morning that he was reversing new grading policies that all but banished the letter F and allowed students caught cheating to retake tests rather than get zeroes.

The change comes after a public outcry among parents and teachers at the school, in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County. Instead of Fs, students in most cases received grades of "I" for "incomplete" in report cards mailed home last week. The cheating policy gave teachers the option of letting students retake tests. Both initiatives now have been rescinded.


Post Now - Va. high school restores Fs
 
The power of public opinion:

West Potomac High School Principal Cliff Hardison announced Friday morning that he was reversing new grading policies that all but banished the letter F and allowed students caught cheating to retake tests rather than get zeroes.

The change comes after a public outcry among parents and teachers at the school, in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County. Instead of Fs, students in most cases received grades of "I" for "incomplete" in report cards mailed home last week. The cheating policy gave teachers the option of letting students retake tests. Both initiatives now have been rescinded.


Post Now - Va. high school restores Fs

I'm guessing that principal will have problems with his next contract. After reading the full article it seems he made this new policy by decree. No input from students, parents, staff. Even when confronted with opposition, he hung tough. Until Washington Post got a hold of the story.

He still believes his way is the right way and will form three committees to write findings of such. :lol:
 
The power of public opinion:

West Potomac High School Principal Cliff Hardison announced Friday morning that he was reversing new grading policies that all but banished the letter F and allowed students caught cheating to retake tests rather than get zeroes.

The change comes after a public outcry among parents and teachers at the school, in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County. Instead of Fs, students in most cases received grades of "I" for "incomplete" in report cards mailed home last week. The cheating policy gave teachers the option of letting students retake tests. Both initiatives now have been rescinded.
Post Now - Va. high school restores Fs


How about an I for incompetent? Imbecile? Illiterate?
 

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