CDZ No matter who wins, does the 2016 election show that one man can buy an election?

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Straightforward enough question. Forget about whether you like Trump or don't. That's not the point here. Ignore whether Trump wins or not; that also doesn't matter, and I'll explain why in a moment. The short is that one very rich man who has the political thoughts he has, to a material albeit not complete extent, opened his wallet and purchased an election.

Now, to me that just doesn't sit well. It doesn't, not because it's Trump who did it, but because it shows it can very conceivably be done. This is the first time in modern electoral history when we've seen that a charismatic individual with no public policymaking experience who has enough money in fact can, in a manner of speaking, purchase the U.S. Presidency via one of the two major parties.

Ross Perot sort of gave it a shot some years back, but he did it as an Independent, not on the Dem or Rep ticket. Mr. Perot even did pretty well, gaining about 20% of the popular vote, but zero electoral votes. Thus his run didn't demonstrate convincingly that one could in essence buy the Presidency.

The sum of money needed also is clearly "not that much." So far, Trump is projected to spend about $100M or so of his own money. For someone who's worth billions, that's not much at all. It's even doable for folks worth $500M to $1B because at that wealth level, one's lifestyle doesn't change because one may after the fact be a couple hundred million dollars less wealthy.


So just what are the implications of what Trump has without question demonstrated?
  • Are we about to have an era of wealthy entertainers -- because they have the charisma and built in name recognition -- as President, Senator, Congressperson?
  • We've all seen members here write about the "oligarchs," or in the press they're called "elites," and the extent of control they already have over the political process, and that's when they are "buying" an election for someone else.
    • What is to come when they instead, using the example Trump has given us, buy elected offices for themselves?
    • Is there any hope after this for "regular" people really having any say in American politics and policymaking?
  • I doubt we'll devolve into something akin to African nations with their patronage bribes for public office, but we might, although it may be different individuals, groups and entities who get paid.
    • Would it be the media -- bloggers, television and radio networks, editorialists, reporters, execs, etc. -- who get paid?
      • What stops the wealthy candidate from dropping the bulk of their ad buys on XYZ network in exchange for favorable coverage?
      • What stops blog/editorial writers from also being on the dole?
    • When it's a private individual funding their run, what makes them spend the money out of their campaign fund instead of just buying ad time and facilities, etc, out of their pocket, no official campaign involved?
    • What stops one from mostly bypassing the official campaign if one has one?
  • Just how far down the hierarchy will this go in years ahead? Congress? State legislatures? Dog catcher?
  • What about a person basically using their campaign as a vehicle for creating a tax deduction out of their election bid? I already showed how that works now in a different post. (Nobody had much to say about it before, so I'm not going to link it here.
  • What sorts of requirements must we implement to somehow ensure that even if it's only "oligarchs" running, we the people at least get accurate information about them so we can make well informed choices based on info that is "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" rather than the "spun" information we've been getting for the past "however many decades it's been?"
    • Will we need honesty in political campaigning statutes?
    • Will we need to mandate the nature and extent of coverage media outlets provide for candidates?
    • Should media outlets be required to provide free and equal amounts coverage for all candidates in order to keep ?
Obviously, I am not suggesting that one cannot use one's own money to finance a political campaign. That just doesn't fit with the American way. By the same token, neither does "buying" an election or evolving to political model where only the mega, mega rich get elected to high office.

The preceding just deals with the tip of the iceberg of portents given by Trump's run for President. It's no secret that running for President, to say nothing of winning is one sure way to $5M - $10M; candidates have to fight off book publishers. When a winning candidate is a private company owner and operator, the potential for graft and chicanery is all but unlimited. Even if there were a thought that something untoward were to have taken place, how would investigators obtain credible evidence of it? I mean really, who's going to tell them the truth among a President, their wife, sons, daughters and other immediate family members in the case of a closely held business entity that's large enough to provide the kind of money we're talking about?

However we answer the questions above, whatever happens next, we are all but certain to see a whole new paradigm in politics and elections. Whether one likes Trump or not, he's singularly responsible for whatever becomes of our electoral process and players.
 
Elections could always be bought.

Well, more like pre purchased.
 
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Wow 320, you really don't get this.

Even if Trump gets more votes, they'll never certify. The electoral college is the one that decides. Where have you been?

Hillary is already president, didn't you get the memo?
 
Hillary Clinton
Total cash on hand
$177.7M
Candidate Raised to Date* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $766.6M

Spent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $614.0M

Cash on Hand . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $152.6M


Super-PACs Raised to Date . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $183.0M

Spent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $159.1M

Cash on Hand . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $25.1M


Total Raised to Date . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $949.6M

Total Spent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $773.2M

Total Cash on Hand . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $177.7M

Donald Trump
Total cash on hand
$97.3M
Candidate Raised to Date* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $392.1M

Spent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $315.0M

Cash on Hand . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $77.0M


Super-PACs Raised to Date . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $57.0M

Spent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $37.9M

Cash on Hand . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $20.3M


Total Raised to Date . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $449.1M

Total Spent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $352.9M

Total Cash on Hand . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $97.3M

Tracking the 2016 Presidential Money Race
 
Straightforward enough question. Forget about whether you like Trump or don't. That's not the point here. Ignore whether Trump wins or not; that also doesn't matter, and I'll explain why in a moment. The short is that one very rich man who has the political thoughts he has, to a material albeit not complete extent, opened his wallet and purchased an election.

Now, to me that just doesn't sit well. It doesn't, not because it's Trump who did it, but because it shows it can very conceivably be done. This is the first time in modern electoral history when we've seen that a charismatic individual with no public policymaking experience who has enough money in fact can, in a manner of speaking, purchase the U.S. Presidency via one of the two major parties.

Ross Perot sort of gave it a shot some years back, but he did it as an Independent, not on the Dem or Rep ticket. Mr. Perot even did pretty well, gaining about 20% of the popular vote, but zero electoral votes. Thus his run didn't demonstrate convincingly that one could in essence buy the Presidency.

The sum of money needed also is clearly "not that much." So far, Trump is projected to spend about $100M or so of his own money. For someone who's worth billions, that's not much at all. It's even doable for folks worth $500M to $1B because at that wealth level, one's lifestyle doesn't change because one may after the fact be a couple hundred million dollars less wealthy.


So just what are the implications of what Trump has without question demonstrated?
  • Are we about to have an era of wealthy entertainers -- because they have the charisma and built in name recognition -- as President, Senator, Congressperson?
  • We've all seen members here write about the "oligarchs," or in the press they're called "elites," and the extent of control they already have over the political process, and that's when they are "buying" an election for someone else.
    • What is to come when they instead, using the example Trump has given us, buy elected offices for themselves?
    • Is there any hope after this for "regular" people really having any say in American politics and policymaking?
  • I doubt we'll devolve into something akin to African nations with their patronage bribes for public office, but we might, although it may be different individuals, groups and entities who get paid.
    • Would it be the media -- bloggers, television and radio networks, editorialists, reporters, execs, etc. -- who get paid?
      • What stops the wealthy candidate from dropping the bulk of their ad buys on XYZ network in exchange for favorable coverage?
      • What stops blog/editorial writers from also being on the dole?
    • When it's a private individual funding their run, what makes them spend the money out of their campaign fund instead of just buying ad time and facilities, etc, out of their pocket, no official campaign involved?
    • What stops one from mostly bypassing the official campaign if one has one?
  • Just how far down the hierarchy will this go in years ahead? Congress? State legislatures? Dog catcher?
  • What about a person basically using their campaign as a vehicle for creating a tax deduction out of their election bid? I already showed how that works now in a different post. (Nobody had much to say about it before, so I'm not going to link it here.
  • What sorts of requirements must we implement to somehow ensure that even if it's only "oligarchs" running, we the people at least get accurate information about them so we can make well informed choices based on info that is "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" rather than the "spun" information we've been getting for the past "however many decades it's been?"
    • Will we need honesty in political campaigning statutes?
    • Will we need to mandate the nature and extent of coverage media outlets provide for candidates?
    • Should media outlets be required to provide free and equal amounts coverage for all candidates in order to keep ?
Obviously, I am not suggesting that one cannot use one's own money to finance a political campaign. That just doesn't fit with the American way. By the same token, neither does "buying" an election or evolving to political model where only the mega, mega rich get elected to high office.

The preceding just deals with the tip of the iceberg of portents given by Trump's run for President. It's no secret that running for President, to say nothing of winning is one sure way to $5M - $10M; candidates have to fight off book publishers. When a winning candidate is a private company owner and operator, the potential for graft and chicanery is all but unlimited. Even if there were a thought that something untoward were to have taken place, how would investigators obtain credible evidence of it? I mean really, who's going to tell them the truth among a President, their wife, sons, daughters and other immediate family members in the case of a closely held business entity that's large enough to provide the kind of money we're talking about?

However we answer the questions above, whatever happens next, we are all but certain to see a whole new paradigm in politics and elections. Whether one likes Trump or not, he's singularly responsible for whatever becomes of our electoral process and players.


You do realize that Trump was outspent in the primaries......he spent about 18 million, jeb bush spent 140 million...and Trump won.......hilary has outspent trump as well and did so taking bribes through the clinton foundation with foreign donors......so your entire thread is not true......
 
If you self-finance, it means you're not getting outside monetary support, which means you've not convinced anyone that you're at least a good president FOR THEM. To a certain extent, Hillary has a lot of backers because they think she's qualified. (Sure, there are plenty expecting political patronage, but they wouldn't even be asking for that if they didn't think she had the chops to win.)

Trump, on the other hand, has virtually no one of any worth plugging money into him because he's not seen as a viable candidate, much less president. So he's "buying" the election by buying himself onto ballots. Hillary is being purchased herself. That's the difference.

It used to be that ideas won elections. Not anymore.

Bernie is the purest form of a candidate in this particular election whose ideas themselves BOUGHT his progress toward the nomination. Not patronage, not his own $$. ... his ideas. He should be the democratic nominee, but we're stuck with Hillary.
 
If you self-finance, it means you're not getting outside monetary support, which means you've not convinced anyone that you're at least a good president FOR THEM. To a certain extent, Hillary has a lot of backers because they think she's qualified. (Sure, there are plenty expecting political patronage, but they wouldn't even be asking for that if they didn't think she had the chops to win.)

Trump, on the other hand, has virtually no one of any worth plugging money into him because he's not seen as a viable candidate, much less president. So he's "buying" the election by buying himself onto ballots. Hillary is being purchased herself. That's the difference.

It used to be that ideas won elections. Not anymore.

Bernie is the purest form of a candidate in this particular election whose ideas themselves BOUGHT his progress toward the nomination. Not patronage, not his own $$. ... his ideas. He should be the democratic nominee, but we're stuck with Hillary.


No...hilary has been bought...as wikileaks shows she used her office as Secretary of State with the promise of being the next President to take bribes...which were given to her through the clinton foundation....

That is the difference.....
 
If you self-finance, it means you're not getting outside monetary support, which means you've not convinced anyone that you're at least a good president FOR THEM. To a certain extent, Hillary has a lot of backers because they think she's qualified. (Sure, there are plenty expecting political patronage, but they wouldn't even be asking for that if they didn't think she had the chops to win.)

Trump, on the other hand, has virtually no one of any worth plugging money into him because he's not seen as a viable candidate, much less president. So he's "buying" the election by buying himself onto ballots. Hillary is being purchased herself. That's the difference.

It used to be that ideas won elections. Not anymore.

Bernie is the purest form of a candidate in this particular election whose ideas themselves BOUGHT his progress toward the nomination. Not patronage, not his own $$. ... his ideas. He should be the democratic nominee, but we're stuck with Hillary.


No...hilary has been bought...as wikileaks shows she used her office as Secretary of State with the promise of being the next President to take bribes...which were given to her through the clinton foundation....

That is the difference.....

Wild conspiracy theories need not apply. If you don't want to take the topic seriously, don't post.
 
If you self-finance, it means you're not getting outside monetary support, which means you've not convinced anyone that you're at least a good president FOR THEM. To a certain extent, Hillary has a lot of backers because they think she's qualified. (Sure, there are plenty expecting political patronage, but they wouldn't even be asking for that if they didn't think she had the chops to win.)

Trump, on the other hand, has virtually no one of any worth plugging money into him because he's not seen as a viable candidate, much less president. So he's "buying" the election by buying himself onto ballots. Hillary is being purchased herself. That's the difference.

It used to be that ideas won elections. Not anymore.

Bernie is the purest form of a candidate in this particular election whose ideas themselves BOUGHT his progress toward the nomination. Not patronage, not his own $$. ... his ideas. He should be the democratic nominee, but we're stuck with Hillary.


No...hilary has been bought...as wikileaks shows she used her office as Secretary of State with the promise of being the next President to take bribes...which were given to her through the clinton foundation....

That is the difference.....

Wild conspiracy theories need not apply. If you don't want to take the topic seriously, don't post.


Do you not pay attention to Wikileaks.....and the information where they have the hilary clinton meeting donors to the clinton foudation....on over seas trips..according to their ability to donate to the foundation...while she is on Government business.....or the 12 million the clinton foundation recieved from Morocco for 92 million in loan guarantees? Or the Uranium deal where companies aligned with Putin donated to the foundation and gave money for bill the rapist to make speeches...and then got 20% of the United States uranium....?
 
If you self-finance, it means you're not getting outside monetary support, which means you've not convinced anyone that you're at least a good president FOR THEM. To a certain extent, Hillary has a lot of backers because they think she's qualified. (Sure, there are plenty expecting political patronage, but they wouldn't even be asking for that if they didn't think she had the chops to win.)

Trump, on the other hand, has virtually no one of any worth plugging money into him because he's not seen as a viable candidate, much less president. So he's "buying" the election by buying himself onto ballots. Hillary is being purchased herself. That's the difference.

It used to be that ideas won elections. Not anymore.

Bernie is the purest form of a candidate in this particular election whose ideas themselves BOUGHT his progress toward the nomination. Not patronage, not his own $$. ... his ideas. He should be the democratic nominee, but we're stuck with Hillary.


No...hilary has been bought...as wikileaks shows she used her office as Secretary of State with the promise of being the next President to take bribes...which were given to her through the clinton foundation....

That is the difference.....

Wild conspiracy theories need not apply. If you don't want to take the topic seriously, don't post.


Do you not pay attention to Wikileaks.....and the information where they have the hilary clinton meeting donors to the clinton foudation....on over seas trips..according to their ability to donate to the foundation...while she is on Government business.....or the 12 million the clinton foundation recieved from Morocco for 92 million in loan guarantees? Or the Uranium deal where companies aligned with Putin donated to the foundation and gave money for bill the rapist to make speeches...and then got 20% of the United States uranium....?

There's been zero evidence of "pay to play". None. Look high and low, but lots of donations do not = influence peddling. This has been researched ad nauseum by people smarter (and more motivated to destroy Hillary) than you or me.
 
If you self-finance, it means you're not getting outside monetary support, which means you've not convinced anyone that you're at least a good president FOR THEM. To a certain extent, Hillary has a lot of backers because they think she's qualified. (Sure, there are plenty expecting political patronage, but they wouldn't even be asking for that if they didn't think she had the chops to win.)

Trump, on the other hand, has virtually no one of any worth plugging money into him because he's not seen as a viable candidate, much less president. So he's "buying" the election by buying himself onto ballots. Hillary is being purchased herself. That's the difference.

It used to be that ideas won elections. Not anymore.

Bernie is the purest form of a candidate in this particular election whose ideas themselves BOUGHT his progress toward the nomination. Not patronage, not his own $$. ... his ideas. He should be the democratic nominee, but we're stuck with Hillary.


No...hilary has been bought...as wikileaks shows she used her office as Secretary of State with the promise of being the next President to take bribes...which were given to her through the clinton foundation....

That is the difference.....

Wild conspiracy theories need not apply. If you don't want to take the topic seriously, don't post.


Do you not pay attention to Wikileaks.....and the information where they have the hilary clinton meeting donors to the clinton foudation....on over seas trips..according to their ability to donate to the foundation...while she is on Government business.....or the 12 million the clinton foundation recieved from Morocco for 92 million in loan guarantees? Or the Uranium deal where companies aligned with Putin donated to the foundation and gave money for bill the rapist to make speeches...and then got 20% of the United States uranium....?

There's been zero evidence of "pay to play". None. Look high and low, but lots of donations do not = influence peddling. This has been researched ad nauseum by people smarter (and more motivated to destroy Hillary) than you or me.


There is every bit of evidence of pay to play.....and that you deny it shows a lot about who you are....and it has been ignored by the Department of Justice, the FBI and the democrtats in the press....the Dept. of Justice...Attorney General who met with bill the rapist during an active investigation...the money made by the Director of the FBI and the Deputy Director of the FBI.....you really need to look into your own soul.....
 
If you self-finance, it means you're not getting outside monetary support, which means you've not convinced anyone that you're at least a good president FOR THEM. To a certain extent, Hillary has a lot of backers because they think she's qualified. (Sure, there are plenty expecting political patronage, but they wouldn't even be asking for that if they didn't think she had the chops to win.)

Trump, on the other hand, has virtually no one of any worth plugging money into him because he's not seen as a viable candidate, much less president. So he's "buying" the election by buying himself onto ballots. Hillary is being purchased herself. That's the difference.

It used to be that ideas won elections. Not anymore.

Bernie is the purest form of a candidate in this particular election whose ideas themselves BOUGHT his progress toward the nomination. Not patronage, not his own $$. ... his ideas. He should be the democratic nominee, but we're stuck with Hillary.


No...hilary has been bought...as wikileaks shows she used her office as Secretary of State with the promise of being the next President to take bribes...which were given to her through the clinton foundation....

That is the difference.....

Wild conspiracy theories need not apply. If you don't want to take the topic seriously, don't post.


Do you not pay attention to Wikileaks.....and the information where they have the hilary clinton meeting donors to the clinton foudation....on over seas trips..according to their ability to donate to the foundation...while she is on Government business.....or the 12 million the clinton foundation recieved from Morocco for 92 million in loan guarantees? Or the Uranium deal where companies aligned with Putin donated to the foundation and gave money for bill the rapist to make speeches...and then got 20% of the United States uranium....?

There's been zero evidence of "pay to play". None. Look high and low, but lots of donations do not = influence peddling. This has been researched ad nauseum by people smarter (and more motivated to destroy Hillary) than you or me.


There is every bit of evidence of pay to play.....and that you deny it shows a lot about who you are....and it has been ignored by the Department of Justice, the FBI and the democrtats in the press....the Dept. of Justice...Attorney General who met with bill the rapist during an active investigation...the money made by the Director of the FBI and the Deputy Director of the FBI.....you really need to look into your own soul.....

Ignored? Is that what the incessant investigations and hearings into every aspect of Hillary's foundation and her actions as SoS are? Ignoring? Every single agenda-driven Republican who has attempted to bring her down has found nothing. Nada. Zilch. I realize that's frustrating, but it's time to admit that perhaps your conspiracy theories just don't hold water anymore.
 
No...hilary has been bought...as wikileaks shows she used her office as Secretary of State with the promise of being the next President to take bribes...which were given to her through the clinton foundation....

That is the difference.....

Wild conspiracy theories need not apply. If you don't want to take the topic seriously, don't post.


Do you not pay attention to Wikileaks.....and the information where they have the hilary clinton meeting donors to the clinton foudation....on over seas trips..according to their ability to donate to the foundation...while she is on Government business.....or the 12 million the clinton foundation recieved from Morocco for 92 million in loan guarantees? Or the Uranium deal where companies aligned with Putin donated to the foundation and gave money for bill the rapist to make speeches...and then got 20% of the United States uranium....?

There's been zero evidence of "pay to play". None. Look high and low, but lots of donations do not = influence peddling. This has been researched ad nauseum by people smarter (and more motivated to destroy Hillary) than you or me.


There is every bit of evidence of pay to play.....and that you deny it shows a lot about who you are....and it has been ignored by the Department of Justice, the FBI and the democrtats in the press....the Dept. of Justice...Attorney General who met with bill the rapist during an active investigation...the money made by the Director of the FBI and the Deputy Director of the FBI.....you really need to look into your own soul.....

Ignored? Is that what the incessant investigations and hearings into every aspect of Hillary's foundation and her actions as SoS are? Ignoring? Every single agenda-driven Republican who has attempted to bring her down has found nothing. Nada. Zilch. I realize that's frustrating, but it's time to admit that perhaps your conspiracy theories just don't hold water anymore.


They have no police powers, they can't even compel the guy who set up hilary's server to appear before congress....he just didn't show...the FBI, the Department of Justice are corrupt through and through...wikileaks shows this...the money going to the FBI leadership shows this.....and the access they have to the Justice Department shows this...
 
Wild conspiracy theories need not apply. If you don't want to take the topic seriously, don't post.


Do you not pay attention to Wikileaks.....and the information where they have the hilary clinton meeting donors to the clinton foudation....on over seas trips..according to their ability to donate to the foundation...while she is on Government business.....or the 12 million the clinton foundation recieved from Morocco for 92 million in loan guarantees? Or the Uranium deal where companies aligned with Putin donated to the foundation and gave money for bill the rapist to make speeches...and then got 20% of the United States uranium....?

There's been zero evidence of "pay to play". None. Look high and low, but lots of donations do not = influence peddling. This has been researched ad nauseum by people smarter (and more motivated to destroy Hillary) than you or me.


There is every bit of evidence of pay to play.....and that you deny it shows a lot about who you are....and it has been ignored by the Department of Justice, the FBI and the democrtats in the press....the Dept. of Justice...Attorney General who met with bill the rapist during an active investigation...the money made by the Director of the FBI and the Deputy Director of the FBI.....you really need to look into your own soul.....

Ignored? Is that what the incessant investigations and hearings into every aspect of Hillary's foundation and her actions as SoS are? Ignoring? Every single agenda-driven Republican who has attempted to bring her down has found nothing. Nada. Zilch. I realize that's frustrating, but it's time to admit that perhaps your conspiracy theories just don't hold water anymore.


They have no police powers, they can't even compel the guy who set up hilary's server to appear before congress....he just didn't show...the FBI, the Department of Justice are corrupt through and through...wikileaks shows this...the money going to the FBI leadership shows this.....and the access they have to the Justice Department shows this...

Correct, Hillary is so powerful she's managed to handcuff a Republican led Congress/FBI into turning a blind eye to her obvious villainy, right? She's borderline Godzilla, and there's no stopping her. What an unstoppable, corrupt force! Who can save us from mighty Hillary???
 
Do you not pay attention to Wikileaks.....and the information where they have the hilary clinton meeting donors to the clinton foudation....on over seas trips..according to their ability to donate to the foundation...while she is on Government business.....or the 12 million the clinton foundation recieved from Morocco for 92 million in loan guarantees? Or the Uranium deal where companies aligned with Putin donated to the foundation and gave money for bill the rapist to make speeches...and then got 20% of the United States uranium....?

There's been zero evidence of "pay to play". None. Look high and low, but lots of donations do not = influence peddling. This has been researched ad nauseum by people smarter (and more motivated to destroy Hillary) than you or me.


There is every bit of evidence of pay to play.....and that you deny it shows a lot about who you are....and it has been ignored by the Department of Justice, the FBI and the democrtats in the press....the Dept. of Justice...Attorney General who met with bill the rapist during an active investigation...the money made by the Director of the FBI and the Deputy Director of the FBI.....you really need to look into your own soul.....

Ignored? Is that what the incessant investigations and hearings into every aspect of Hillary's foundation and her actions as SoS are? Ignoring? Every single agenda-driven Republican who has attempted to bring her down has found nothing. Nada. Zilch. I realize that's frustrating, but it's time to admit that perhaps your conspiracy theories just don't hold water anymore.


They have no police powers, they can't even compel the guy who set up hilary's server to appear before congress....he just didn't show...the FBI, the Department of Justice are corrupt through and through...wikileaks shows this...the money going to the FBI leadership shows this.....and the access they have to the Justice Department shows this...

Correct, Hillary is so powerful she's managed to handcuff a Republican led Congress/FBI into turning a blind eye to her obvious villainy, right? She's borderline Godzilla, and there's no stopping her. What an unstoppable, corrupt force! Who can save us from mighty Hillary???


You are blind. She has corrupted the leadership of the FBI and the Department of Jusitce....and is relying on her future power of the Pardon to keep her people in line....
 
There's been zero evidence of "pay to play". None. Look high and low, but lots of donations do not = influence peddling. This has been researched ad nauseum by people smarter (and more motivated to destroy Hillary) than you or me.


There is every bit of evidence of pay to play.....and that you deny it shows a lot about who you are....and it has been ignored by the Department of Justice, the FBI and the democrtats in the press....the Dept. of Justice...Attorney General who met with bill the rapist during an active investigation...the money made by the Director of the FBI and the Deputy Director of the FBI.....you really need to look into your own soul.....

Ignored? Is that what the incessant investigations and hearings into every aspect of Hillary's foundation and her actions as SoS are? Ignoring? Every single agenda-driven Republican who has attempted to bring her down has found nothing. Nada. Zilch. I realize that's frustrating, but it's time to admit that perhaps your conspiracy theories just don't hold water anymore.


They have no police powers, they can't even compel the guy who set up hilary's server to appear before congress....he just didn't show...the FBI, the Department of Justice are corrupt through and through...wikileaks shows this...the money going to the FBI leadership shows this.....and the access they have to the Justice Department shows this...

Correct, Hillary is so powerful she's managed to handcuff a Republican led Congress/FBI into turning a blind eye to her obvious villainy, right? She's borderline Godzilla, and there's no stopping her. What an unstoppable, corrupt force! Who can save us from mighty Hillary???


You are blind. She has corrupted the leadership of the FBI and the Department of Jusitce....and is relying on her future power of the Pardon to keep her people in line....

Right, the Republican head of the FBI is hoping for a ....pardon. For what? Don't know, just trust us.
 
This thread may or may not work in CDZ - it's already diverting/derailing.

I THINK the point 320 was trying to make - and what we should stick to for the topic - is NOT whether or not either Hillary or Trump PURCHASED an election but rather whether an individual, with a lot of money and no public policy experience whatsoever, can essentially "purchase" an election through one of the political parties.

So let's take this as a speculative question - not of specific players. 320 did raise some interesting questions. Let's look at those questions and not at Trump or Clinton specifically.
 
This thread may or may not work in CDZ - it's already diverting/derailing.

I THINK the point 320 was trying to make - and what we should stick to for the topic - is NOT whether or not either Hillary or Trump PURCHASED an election but rather whether an individual, with a lot of money and no public policy experience whatsoever, can essentially "purchase" an election through one of the political parties.

So let's take this as a speculative question - not of specific players. 320 did raise some interesting questions. Let's look at those questions and not at Trump or Clinton specifically.


The original post by 320 states that Trump is the issue...

Straightforward enough question. Forget about whether you like Trump or don't. That's not the point here. Ignore whether Trump wins or not; that also doesn't matter, and I'll explain why in a moment. The short is that one very rich man who has the political thoughts he has, to a material albeit not complete extent, opened his wallet and purchased an election.
 
This thread may or may not work in CDZ - it's already diverting/derailing.

I THINK the point 320 was trying to make - and what we should stick to for the topic - is NOT whether or not either Hillary or Trump PURCHASED an election but rather whether an individual, with a lot of money and no public policy experience whatsoever, can essentially "purchase" an election through one of the political parties.

So let's take this as a speculative question - not of specific players. 320 did raise some interesting questions. Let's look at those questions and not at Trump or Clinton specifically.


The original post by 320 states that Trump is the issue...

Straightforward enough question. Forget about whether you like Trump or don't. That's not the point here. Ignore whether Trump wins or not; that also doesn't matter, and I'll explain why in a moment. The short is that one very rich man who has the political thoughts he has, to a material albeit not complete extent, opened his wallet and purchased an election.


It also states:
This is the first time in modern electoral history when we've seen that a charismatic individual with no public policymaking experience who has enough money in fact can, in a manner of speaking, purchase the U.S. Presidency via one of the two major parties.
 

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