No glaciers in Glacier National Park

[KittenKoder]

Isn't arguing against living cleaner in terms of the fuel we burn kind of like arguing that the sheets don't need changing 'cause their not wet on my side?

Seems to me like we should be looking for cleaner ways to power our society because not doing so makes the air foul. That makes sense to me even if there is no other valid reason for doing so.

Before the environmental protection laws of the 70's there were days in Denver CO that kids couldn't go outside to play because he air was brown. (No link required... I was there.)

Genesis Chapter 2 - God gave Adam two things to do: Name the Animals and Tend the Garden. (Hey, just because I'm not a believer, doesn't mean I can't appreciate the plethora of cool things mentioned in The Bible....)

Outside of baseball, one out of two is a piss-poor record.

-Joe

Got Links?

You must offer what you ask for, or admit hypocrisy now.

I don't care about your christian mythology, that has no weight on my life and never will. What I do care about is science here, this topic specifically, and the science as a whole does not support the environut contentions, only one tiny part of science does if you ignore the rest of it.

Back the truck up a second K.K. - I am not bringing religious mythology into the discussion, I'm saying that as a species, we are doing a piss-poor job of tending the garden. Whether it's because God asked us to or just because it's the right thing to do for future generations, we should tend the garden, right? Oops, my bad... I suppose I shouldn't just assume you care about the air we breathe and the water in our eco-system.

Let's start there. I'll ask.

Do you care? If not we should just end this and part ways as friends who agree to disagree on the environment.

Regarding a link for smog in Denver, try this: For years, brown cloud fouls Denver image

-Joe

So why can't we come to a middle ground where we also care about the survival of our own species? The planet will always retain the ability to heal, and we cannot drive all life extinct, that's impossible. However they are using this environmentalism garbage to decrease the chances of our survival, not increase. Perfect example are the low energy bulbs, they contain highly toxic chemicals, ones which we were pushing to have banned, but they conned everyone into thinking that decreasing energy usage will decrease pollution .... the reality is that it only changes the type of pollution and poses a bigger threat to us, the consumer, and gives one company huge profits.

 

[Maple]

has held out information concerning global warming and there are currently some -e-mails that need to be investigated. Even the EPA has backed away from this humans causing global warming B.S, one e-mail said it was just a hypothesis not fact and not to act on hypothesis and punish Americans, destroy our economy, send more jobs overseas, get another EPA czar that tells you when you can sell your home and when you can't is absurd.

If wind and solar were reliable, inexpensive, profitable we would already have it. would gladly put a wind mill on my house if it was affordable and took care of my electric needs.It's not, they are too expensive and you do not get the return on investment, that's why the government is subsidizing these companies.

Of course, Obama won't let us drill in our own country and he is certainly not going to let us do nuclear energy, he just wants to punish all of us with his new cap and trade, raking in more of our hard earned money to go to projects that do not yet work.

Why not get them up and running and then do the switch, oh no, we couldn't do that it makes too much sense.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The brown cloud still comes around every winter. It's as much a product of the inversion layers in mountainous terrain as anything else.

On top of that, technology could be just as much of an explanation as any laws. Most modern engines get significantly more horsepower per cubic inch, and therefore burn their fuel more completely.

Bummer.

Whether it was the environmental laws or dumb luck there is nothing wrong with living cleaner. The problem with modern sewage systems is that people think their shit 'goes away'.

Lets keep those reasons to trim pollution coming!

-Joe

Hmm? So you are advocating that we don't take a shit anymore now?

Of course not - I'm advocating we realize that we have a responsibility to clean up after ourselves and a perfect example of success is the modern sewage system, a blend of private and public interests given monopoly power and responsibility. We don't even think about it. We just flush.

-Joe

 

[KittenKoder]

Bummer.

Whether it was the environmental laws or dumb luck there is nothing wrong with living cleaner. The problem with modern sewage systems is that people think their shit 'goes away'.

Lets keep those reasons to trim pollution coming!

-Joe

Hmm? So you are advocating that we don't take a shit anymore now?

Of course not - I'm advocating we realize that we have a responsibility to clean up after ourselves and a perfect example of success is the modern sewage system, a blend of private and public interests given monopoly power and responsibility. We don't even think about it. We just flush.

-Joe

Who/s we? Got a mouse in your pocket?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Got Links?

You must offer what you ask for, or admit hypocrisy now.

I don't care about your christian mythology, that has no weight on my life and never will. What I do care about is science here, this topic specifically, and the science as a whole does not support the environut contentions, only one tiny part of science does if you ignore the rest of it.

Back the truck up a second K.K. - I am not bringing religious mythology into the discussion, I'm saying that as a species, we are doing a piss-poor job of tending the garden. Whether it's because God asked us to or just because it's the right thing to do for future generations, we should tend the garden, right? Oops, my bad... I suppose I shouldn't just assume you care about the air we breathe and the water in our eco-system.

Let's start there. I'll ask.

Do you care? If not we should just end this and part ways as friends who agree to disagree on the environment.

Regarding a link for smog in Denver, try this: For years, brown cloud fouls Denver image

-Joe

So why can't we come to a middle ground where we also care about the survival of our own species? The planet will always retain the ability to heal, and we cannot drive all life extinct, that's impossible. However they are using this environmentalism garbage to decrease the chances of our survival, not increase. Perfect example are the low energy bulbs, they contain highly toxic chemicals, ones which we were pushing to have banned, but they conned everyone into thinking that decreasing energy usage will decrease pollution .... the reality is that it only changes the type of pollution and poses a bigger threat to us, the consumer, and gives one company huge profits.

I am going to disagree regarding the mans ability to affect it and the planets ability to heal... I believe a super-power full scale nuclear exchange would leave earth in bad enough shape that survival would not be desirable, if it was possible. I can also picture an asteroid hit that would do the same, thanks to various investigations into the dinosaur killer of 65 million years ago.

I'm not only all about surviving, I like having cars and airplanes and refrigeration and computers and television and and and....

And with all those cool things that make life more enjoyable than the middle ages, come responsibility. Have you ever seen a house that was nicely maintained and kept but you wouldn't want to own it 'cause the neighbor was a pig? It is worse when that pig neighbor is armed and powerful in the neighborhood... Do you suppose the dolphins are embarrassed to share digs with us? You think they'd say anything if they could?

If the low energy bulbs are toxic then one of three things should happen...

1. Don't let people use them (but restricting freedoms sucks)

2. Let entrepreneurs make them and let people buy them as long as everyone involved in the transaction was aware of the toxicity and promised to (insert your favorite Deity here) that they would be careful and dispose the expended units properly. (yeah, right...)

3. Let entrepreneurs make them and let people buy them only if the entrepreneurs and their customers agree to economic incentives to return the expended units to the manufacturer (or other suitable location) for proper disposal.

I am NOT a big fan of the cap and trade thing. It's complicated and therefore it is full of bullshit favorable only to lawyers and lobbyists. If I was the king, I would be encouraging investment in, and spending some of the kingdoms treasury on, cleaner ways to make electricity. Remember, Henry Ford went bankrupt twice while bringing the automobile to the common man. If electricity was cheap and clean, nobody would care what kind of bulbs you liked.

Too simplistic for our economy, I know... there's just one of the reasons I'm not the king.

Realistically, electric power and fuel will not be priced out of our reach, that benefits no one, including several lobby groups. I do hope that we figure out how to live cleaner, and I'm willing to drive a small car and set my AC at 78 to do my part. Last years run up in gas prices proved that few of us are willing to make those kinds of personal cuts without pocket book incentives, but with proper incentives we actually bought less gas and caused a pinch in the economies of Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, slight though it was. Can't argue with market forces.

-Joe

 

[code1211]

Shit man, you are one fucking dumb bastard. There have been links posted here repeatedly from physicists that explain exactly how the Greenhouse Gases operate. That you have failed either to read them or understand them demonstrates either willfull ignorance or a basic lack of intellect.

And yet historically temperature does not follow CO2, CO2 follows temperature. Go figure. I guess whom ever compiled that scientific data was really on big oils pay roll right?

Further DUMB ASS, CO2 is still increasing but temperature is not, explain that.

Name calling is all you have?

How sad for you.

I have said numerous times that CO2 works within the context of the sun's activity.

Do you even read the posts here?

Which seems to say that the Sun, not CO2 is the causer of warming and cooling. What's the big deal about CO2?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Hmm? So you are advocating that we don't take a shit anymore now?

Of course not - I'm advocating we realize that we have a responsibility to clean up after ourselves and a perfect example of success is the modern sewage system, a blend of private and public interests given monopoly power and responsibility. We don't even think about it. We just flush.

-Joe

Who/s we? Got a mouse in your pocket?

Closer in size to a rat.

 

[Chris]

And yet historically temperature does not follow CO2, CO2 follows temperature. Go figure. I guess whom ever compiled that scientific data was really on big oils pay roll right?

Further DUMB ASS, CO2 is still increasing but temperature is not, explain that.

Name calling is all you have?

How sad for you.

I have said numerous times that CO2 works within the context of the sun's activity.

Do you even read the posts here?

Which seems to say that the Sun, not CO2 is the causer of warming and cooling. What's the big deal about CO2?

No, greenhouse gases and the sun together are the causes of warming and cooling.

That is why Venus is hotter than Mercury.

 

[Oddball]

No, greenhouse gases and the sun together are the causes of warming and cooling.

That is why Venus is hotter than Mercury.

No it's not, you fucking liar.

Venus is hotter than Mercury because it has an atmosphere where the latter has none.....Period.

That its atmosphere is composed of so-called "greenhouse gasses" is entirely irrelevant and you gaddamn well know it.

 

[xotoxi]

"No glaciers in Glacier National Park "

There are also no big tits in Grand Tetons National Park.

 

[KittenKoder]

Name calling is all you have?

How sad for you.

I have said numerous times that CO2 works within the context of the sun's activity.

Do you even read the posts here?

Which seems to say that the Sun, not CO2 is the causer of warming and cooling. What's the big deal about CO2?

No, greenhouse gases and the sun together are the causes of warming and cooling.

That is why Venus is hotter than Mercury.

You never studied astronomy did you?

 

[Oddball]

"No glaciers in Glacier National Park "

There are also no big tits in Grand Tetons National Park.

In Jackson Hole, WY, you don't lose your girlfriend....You lose your turn.

 

[xotoxi]

"No glaciers in Glacier National Park "

There are also no big tits in Grand Tetons National Park.

In other news, Virgin Islands National Park has been fucked.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If 'Virginia' was named for The Virgin, what's that say about Idaho?

-Joe

 

[DamnYankee]

If 'Virginia' was named for The Virgin, what's that say about Idaho?

-Joe

Methinks it says, consider your residence carefully.... LMAO

 

[code1211]

Name calling is all you have?

How sad for you.

I have said numerous times that CO2 works within the context of the sun's activity.

Do you even read the posts here?

Which seems to say that the Sun, not CO2 is the causer of warming and cooling. What's the big deal about CO2?

No, greenhouse gases and the sun together are the causes of warming and cooling.

That is why Venus is hotter than Mercury.

There's also that thing about Mars being twice the distance away from the Sun as Venus.

If you want a pot to boil, place it closer to the burner.

 

[Chris]

Which seems to say that the Sun, not CO2 is the causer of warming and cooling. What's the big deal about CO2?

No, greenhouse gases and the sun together are the causes of warming and cooling.

That is why Venus is hotter than Mercury.

There's also that thing about Mars being twice the distance away from the Sun as Venus.

If you want a pot to boil, place it closer to the burner.

Who said anything about Mars?