No Court Martial for Lt. Col. West

[DKSuddeth]

I can get more links if you don't trust this source:

That will do, thanks. I think its great they uncovered an infiltrator. I think its great that lives were saved. I'm still skeptical on the endangerment issue. This will take me some time to think through.

I've been on the range and had a .44 magnum shot within 5 feet of my ears on many occassions. I've also had my brother shoot his shotgun within several feet of me as well in his backyard. Scared me a bit, but no permanent damage. And I didn't even attack US soldiers to deserve such treatment!

I've been on the rifle range as a qualification coach and there have been times that I've been deaf all weekend because some idiot decided to fire his weapon before told and I didn't have ear protection on.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Its not about feeling better than them. Its about the lives he saved while doing the job he was trained to do by the military.

so the ends do justify the means, right?

 

[Johnney]

When American lives are at stake you bet your ass it does.
Lets face it, the military trained him. Im not 100 % sure, but im betting there isnt a interigators weekly out there where you can pick things up like that.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by eric
To even place the two on the same moral plane is just outrageous. Your contempt for this nation I find reprehensible. Dissent is fine but should be balanced and responsible, how about a little praise for your country once in a while, it would be refreshing.

I praised George Bush for going into afghanistan and setting no less priority than getting bin ladin, then had it thrown in my face when he said it wasn't a priority anymore and shifted this BS to Iraq.

You haven't even begun to see my contempt for this government, not nation. They are NOT one and the same despite all the treasonous tactics that those on the fringes of either side like to proclaim.

Find me as reprehensible as you like, I find others equally as reprehensible for their failings to learn from mistakes and correct their actions as well as their willingness to excuse the criminal activities and inhumane acts that occurred during a period 'not in their lifetime'.

You can't be proud of the good things your country does and ignore the mistakes they make and consider yourself a patriot. Its all or nothing.

 

[Johnney]

You can't be proud of the good things your country does and ignore the mistakes they make and consider yourself a patriot. Its all or nothing.

I am very proud of country. some things make me more proud than others do, but im proud none the less.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Johnney
I am very proud of country. some things make me more proud than others do, but im proud none the less.

Do you do whats necessary to correct the mistakes your country makes or do you just accept it and be 'less proud'?

 

[eric]

Find me as reprehensible as you like

No, I don't find you reprehensible, just your contempt. I am well aware of what it means to be a patriot in fact I agree with the famous quote from Edward Abbey, "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government".

Have as much comtempt for the current admin as you like, that does not bother me at all, but at least be balanced in your judgement.

 

[Johnney]

I do what i can. I contact reps when i see/ read something that makes me wonder. I contact my Vet rep when i see soemthing that would take away our rights we faught for. So yes i do. like i said, i do what i can. but i am one person. Hell i even bitch to the city counsel because of the roads in my neighborhood are horrible, i drive a 4x4 and i get bounced around. But to no avail. so you can see what talking to people about it does. if your not making high six figure income and sitting on some board someplace, they dont care what you have to complain about

 

[lilcountriegal]

Condemn me all you want. I think Lt. West should be given a medal. He took extreme measures in an extreme situation to save many AMERICAN lives that this NON-AMERICAN was constructing a plan to destroy. Medals are given to every day citizens for their heroism, as it should be given to Lt. West.

I was physically NAUSEATED when I saw the video of our POW's over in Iraq DK. I felt for their families, for their loved ones, for THEM. They were beaten, killed, their bodies were drug all over Iraq in the most dishonorable way, tied to bumpers, being beaten and spit on by the Iraqi Army all through that piece of shit country. The one picture alone released showed one of our SOLDIERS with his throat SLIT WIDE OPEN (I'm sure thats an snapshot that the soldiers family will NEVER get out of their head). Need I remind you of the images? Dont sit here and try to preach to me that two wrongs dont make a right. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. If Lt. Col. West had shot this asshole IN the head to get the information out of him to bring that many more of our boys back home & safe, then SO BE IT. People like that "civilian" are responsible for many of the grieving families of our lost soldiers.

I really dont get you people sometimes. You bitch to high heaven because so many of our soldiers are being killed over there, then when ONE person does something that SAVES many of our soldiers lives, you bitch then too.

Whatever. Next time put the bullet in his ass, maybe he'll talk some more.

:finger: them all.

 

[Moi]

I've gotta be one of the most law abiding people on earth but I speed. Are you saying that I deserve the same punishments that a murderer does? The fact is that Col. West may have technically violated the Geneva Convention but it wasn't for the gun shot. It is unacceptable that he allowed his men to beat the guy up and for that he's losing his career. The US punished him for it. What would you his punishment be????? To in any way intimate that his crime is the same as those who stood trial at Nuremberg is just silly. Especially from a liberal who believes in the constitution...punishment must fit the crime.

If Col West beat me up because I threatened his mother, I assure you, no judge in this world would convict him of a crime; at the most he'd be up for misdemeanor assault.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by lilcountriegal
:finger: them all.

 

[DKSuddeth]

I was physically NAUSEATED when I saw the video of our POW's over in Iraq DK. I felt for their families, for their loved ones, for THEM.

So was I countriegal, but heres where I have an issue with the things that go on in this world. A select group of whatevers (large or small, doesn't matter) acts in a certain way that, say, 3/4ths of the world finds offensive or inhumane. Now, do we, as logical thinking humans, focus our attention on those specific individuals and punish them accordingly or do we, as an emotional unruly mob, take anyone closely associated with that group and terrorize, intimidate, and subjugate them to get whatever satisfaction and information we need?

I have zero problem going after the specific individuals who commit atrocities against anyone. Theres a finer line in doing so against people who have information but are only suspect in their association with the first group.

I've gotta be one of the most law abiding people on earth but I speed. Are you saying that I deserve the same punishments that a murderer does?

I don't recall ever saying that laws are absolute. Thats why we call it the justice system.

If Col West beat me up because I threatened his mother, I assure you, no judge in this world would convict him of a crime; at the most he'd be up for misdemeanor assault.

Is a misdemeanor not considered a crime anymore? I beg to differ that a judge would not convict him, especially over just a threat.

 

[jimnyc]

I'll assume that you just didn't see my post, DK, so I'll ask again:

Point me to the posts in which you demanded justice for the enemy going against the GC in their attacks. Oh, you haven't? Why not?

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth


I don't recall ever saying that laws are absolute. Thats why we call it the justice system.

No, but you did insinuate that you thought this act was a "war crime" and subjec to the same discipline as those at Nuremberg. Or, perhaps I read that wrong but that's what I got out of your post.

Originally posted by DKSuddeth

Is a misdemeanor not considered a crime anymore? I beg to differ that a judge would not convict him, especially over just a threat.

Yes, it's a crime. What I meant to say was that a judge wouldn't convict him of a major crime, merely a misdemeanor. Also, the very fact that a reasonable person would believe there to be a threat is legitimate to use force. There doesn't even need to BE a threat just that I thought there was one and it was reasonable to believe it. Secondly, you are entitled to use the same degree of force to wield it off- therefore, for "only a threat" I wouldn't be entitled to kill someone necessarily. and Col. West didn't kill this guy nor did he cause him significant harm. Thus, it seems to me that the amount of force he used was exactly enough, no more no less, than repel the threat. That's all the law asks.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Point me to the posts in which you demanded justice for the enemy going against the GC in their attacks.

I've tried to find the specific post jim, but I haven't been able to. and it wasnt specifically about going against the GC but about the iraqi insurgents and whats left of the iraqi red guard and how we need to crack down on THEM more, beat em down and lock em up.....or kill them if they don't surrender.

I'm all for stopping the attacks. I'm not trying to defend their actions as them 'defending their country'. The army of hussein lost, what really pisses me off about it is how many of these insurgents are only doing this because their families are threatened. I remember all too well the stories my uncle used to tell me about his tours in vietnam and how the civilians had to use guerilla warfare against our troops or watch their children die.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I've tried to find the specific post jim, but I haven't been able to. and it wasnt specifically about going against the GC but about the iraqi insurgents and whats left of the iraqi red guard and how we need to crack down on THEM more, beat em down and lock em up.....or kill them if they don't surrender.

I'm all for stopping the attacks. I'm not trying to defend their actions as them 'defending their country'. The army of hussein lost, what really pisses me off about it is how many of these insurgents are only doing this because their families are threatened. I remember all too well the stories my uncle used to tell me about his tours in vietnam and how the civilians had to use guerilla warfare against our troops or watch their children die.

Why would you assume we're going to kill their children??

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I've tried to find the specific post jim, but I haven't been able to.

I could have saved you the time, you didn't make any such posts.

I'm not trying to be a prick, but I find it a bit odd that you jump all over an American soldier when you think a wrong has been done, but then defend the reasons that the insurgents use to attack our soldiers.

 

[DKSuddeth]

No, but you did insinuate that you thought this act was a "war crime" and subjec to the same discipline as those at Nuremberg. Or, perhaps I read that wrong but that's what I got out of your post.

I certainly didn't mean to communicate that idea, my apologies for not making my stance clearer. While I don't feel this rises to war crime level because the individual in question was not physically hurt, it certainly warrants punishment, at least in my eyes.

There doesn't even need to BE a threat just that I thought there was one and it was reasonable to believe it. Secondly, you are entitled to use the same degree of force to wield it off- therefore, for "only a threat" I wouldn't be entitled to kill someone necessarily.

As a marine, I was taught how to use 'deadly force' as well as other forms of 'force' and the rules for using it. You, or I, would be no more justified in assaulting stone cold steve austin for saying he was going to put the smackdown on us as we would for sticking our boot up peewee hermans ass for saying 'nanabooboo' to us. The threat of physical danger must be real, not perceived, to us or anyone around us.

 

[DKSuddeth]

but then defend the reasons that the insurgents use to attack our soldiers

I don't believe I've ever done that.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Why would you assume we're going to kill their children??

not US, them, the remnants of the guard and the terrorists.

I'm not completely off the left hand side.