No Connection

brneyedgrl80

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May 25, 2004
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http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0616Sept11Panel16-ON.html

9/11 panel: Iraq rebuffed bin Laden request
Associated Press
Jun. 16, 2004 08:15 AM


WASHINGTON - Bluntly contradicting the Bush administration, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported Wednesday there was "no credible evidence" that Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaida target the United States.

In a chilling report that sketched the history of Osama bin Laden's network, the commission said his far-flung training camps were "apparently quite good." Terrorists-to-be were encouraged to "think creatively about ways to commit mass murder," it added.

Bin Laden made overtures to Saddam for assistance, the commission said in the staff report, as he did with leaders in Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere as he sought to build an Islamic army.

While Saddam dispatched a senior Iraqi intelligence official to Sudan to meet with bin Laden in 1994, the commission said it had not turned up evidence of a "collaborative relationship."

The Bush administration has long claimed links between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida, and cited them as one reason for last year's invasion of Iraq.

On Monday, Vice President Dick Cheney said in a speech that the Iraqi dictator "had long established ties with al-Qaida."

The bipartisan commission issued its findings as it embarked on two days of public hearings into the worst terrorist attacks in American history.

The panel intends to issue a final report in July on the hijackings on Sept. 11, 2001 that killed nearly 3,000, destroyed the World Trade Centers in New York and damaged the Pentagon outside Washington. A fourth plane commandeered by terrorists crashed in the countryside in Pennsylvania.

The staff report pieced together information on the development of bin Laden's network, from the far-flung training camps in Afghanistan and elsewhere, to funding from "well-placed financial facilitators and diversions of funds from Islamic charities."

Reports that bin Laden had a huge personal fortune to finance acts of terror are overstated, the report said.

The description of the training camp operations contained elements of faint, grudging praise.

"A worldwide jihad needed terrorists who could bomb embassies or hijack airliners, but it also needed foot soldiers for the Taliban in its war against the Northern Alliance, and guerrillas who could shoot down Russian helicopters in Chechnya or ambush Indian units in Kashmir," it said.

According to one unnamed senior al-Qaida associate, various ideas were floated by mujahadeen in Afghanistan, the commission said. The options included taking over a launcher and forcing Russian scientists to fire a nuclear missile at the United States, mounting mustard gas or cyanide attacks against Jewish areas in Iraq or releasing poison gas into the air conditioning system of a targeted building.

"Last but not least, hijacking an aircraft and crashing it into an airport or nearby city," it said.

The Iraq connection long suggested by administration officials gained no currency in the report.

"Bin Laden is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded," the report said. "There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al-Qaida also occurred" after bin Laden moved his operations to Afghanistan in 1996, "but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship," it said.

"Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al-Qaida and Iraq," the report said.

In a separate report, the commission staff said that senior al-Qaida planner Khalid Shaihk Mohammed initially proposed a Sept. 11 attack involving 10 planes. An expanded target list included the CIA and FBI headquarters, unidentified nuclear plants and tall buildings in California and Washington state.

That ambitious plan was rejected by bin Laden, who ultimately approved a scaled-back mission involving four planes, the report said. Mohammed wanted more hijackers for those planes - 25 or 26, instead of 19.

The commission has identified at least 10 al-Qaida operatives who were to participate but could not take part for reasons including visa problems and suspicion by officials at airports in the United States and overseas.

From a seamless operation, the report portrays a plot riven by internal dissent, including disagreement over whether to target the White House or the Capitol that was apparently never resolved prior to the attacks. Bin Laden also had to overcome opposition to attacking the United States from Mullah Omar, leader of the former Taliban regime, who was under pressure from Pakistan to keep al-Qaida confined.

The United States toppled the regime in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, but Omar has eluded capture, as has al-Qaida.



AP-WS-06-16-04 1110EDT
 
All I know is that Saddam supported various terrorist organizations, terrorist organizations associated with Al Qaeda operated in Iraq, and there are other links as well. Even if there was no 9/11 connection, it's not like there were no connections at all to terrorism, but some people might try to believe that fairy tale anyway.
 
http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/27/100047.shtml
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005133

Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:53 a.m. EDT
WSJ: Saddam's Files Show 'Direct' 9/11 Link

Newly uncovered files examined by U.S. military investigators in Baghdad show what is being described as "a direct link" between Saddam Hussein's elite Fedayeen military unit and the terrorist attacks on America on Sept. 11, 2001.

Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, who attended a January 2000 al-Qaida summit in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where the 9/11 attacks were planned, is listed among the officers on three Fedayeen rosters reviewed by U.S. probers, the Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday.

"Our government sources, who have seen translations of the documents, say Shakir is listed with the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel," the paper said.

Though the Journal doesn't mention it, Saddam's Fedayeen has been identified in previous reports as the group that conducted 9/11-style hijack training drills on a parked Boeing 707 airliner at the south Baghdad terrorist camp Salman Pak.

In a post obtained through Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service, Shakir was stationed at the Iraqi Embassy in Kuala Lumpur at the time of the 9/11 planning session.

Also in attendance were 9/11 hijackers Khalid al Midhar and Nawaz al Hamzi, who were piloting American Airlines Flight 77 when it crashed into the Pentagon.

Ramzi bin al Shibh, the operational planner of the 9/11 attacks, and Tawfiz al Atash, a high-ranking Osama bin Laden lieutenant and mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, were also at the meeting, the Journal said.

When Shakir was arrested in Qatar on Sept. 17, 2001, he was carrying phone numbers of the 1993 World Trade Center bombers' safe houses and contacts, as well as information relating to Operation Bojinka, a plot devised by trade center bomber Ramzi Yousef that became the blueprint for the 9/11 attacks.

The Qataris released Shakir after a brief detention and he fled to Jordan, where he was re-arrested. Inexplicably, however, the CIA signed off on his release after Amnesty International complained.

"He was last seen heading home to Baghdad," the Journal says.

No credible evidence huh? Don't worry. the more of Saddam's papers that will be uncovered, the more it is clear that we were right.
 
Liberals will just stick their fingers in their ears and go, "La la la la la. I can't hear you." when they hear stuff like that.
 
Originally posted by tim_duncan2000
Liberals will just stick their fingers in their ears and go, "La la la la la. I can't hear you." when they hear stuff like that.

No, that's what you did when you saw the top article on the 9-11 Commission's report that refuted any Hussein/9-11 connection.

The WSJ article posted by insein however also reveals that there might have been a link that was just hidden very well. It doesn't seem like a sureity. However, what was Shakir's role in the Iraqi government? I noticed the article mentioned the Fedayeen, but that was all. And why did the CIA let him loose?
 
WASHINGTON - Bluntly contradicting the Bush administration, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported Wednesday there was "no credible evidence" that Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaida target the United States.


[SPIN ALERT]: It says there is no connection between Iraq and 9/11 but not "no connection between Al-qaida and Iraq". [/SPIN ALERT]

What is is?
 
Does anyone wonder when Cheney will come back to the real world? Just two days ago, Cheney said Iraq had "long established ties" with al Qaeda, which is completely unsubstantiated.(Forgive me if I ignore what the rightwing WSJ and newsmax have to say on that matter)

If al-Qaeda and Iraq are so close, how can there be no connection between 9/11 and Iraq?
 
Uh, did anyone else read the following in the original posting??

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80

Bin Laden made overtures to Saddam for assistance, the commission said in the staff report, as he did with leaders in Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere as he sought to build an Islamic army.

While Saddam dispatched a senior Iraqi intelligence official to Sudan to meet with bin Laden in 1994, the commission said it had not turned up evidence of a "collaborative relationship."

"Bin Laden is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded," the report said. "There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al-Qaida also occurred" after bin Laden moved his operations to Afghanistan in 1996, "but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship," it said.

Right. Sending high ranking spooks for clandestine meetings with Al Qaeda operatives is innocent? It was probably a friendly get together to bet on the camel races.

How about the other meeting that the Czechs caught? They expelled an Iraqi 'diplomat' after catching him meeting with an Al Qaeda operative. Poker night?

The investigation turned up concrete proof that there were open lines of communication between Saddam and Al Qaeda, and yet they're confident that there wasn't a 'collaborative relationship'?

:bs1:
 
colllaborative smolaborative.....

Iraq recognized AQ. That is enough to make them complicit in my eyes. By sending "diplomats" to meet with OBL, he indicated that he viewed AQ as a legitimate organization. That in of itself is enough for me to indicate a "relationship".
 
Originally posted by freeandfun1
colllaborative smolaborative.....

Iraq recognized AQ. That is enough to make them complicit in my eyes. By sending "diplomats" to meet with OBL, he indicated that he viewed AQ as a legitimate organization. That in of itself is enough for me to indicate a "relationship".

This is nothing compared to the CIA's relationship with the Laden and Al-Qaeda. It's public record that the CIA armed and trained Laden and his gang. They even taught them how to rig camels with explosives, walk the camel next to a few Soviets in Afganistan, and let 'em have it. Face the fact that it was our clandestine agents that built up these terrorists in the first place.
 
Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0616Sept11Panel16-ON.html

9/11 panel: Iraq rebuffed bin Laden request
Associated Press
Jun. 16, 2004 08:15 AM


WASHINGTON - Bluntly contradicting the Bush administration, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported Wednesday there was "no credible evidence" that Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaida target the United States.

In a chilling report that sketched the history of Osama bin Laden's network, the commission said his far-flung training camps were "apparently quite good." Terrorists-to-be were encouraged to "think creatively about ways to commit mass murder," it added.

Bin Laden made overtures to Saddam for assistance, the commission said in the staff report, as he did with leaders in Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere as he sought to build an Islamic army.

While Saddam dispatched a senior Iraqi intelligence official to Sudan to meet with bin Laden in 1994, the commission said it had not turned up evidence of a "collaborative relationship."

The Bush administration has long claimed links between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida, and cited them as one reason for last year's invasion of Iraq.

On Monday, Vice President Dick Cheney said in a speech that the Iraqi dictator "had long established ties with al-Qaida."

The bipartisan commission issued its findings as it embarked on two days of public hearings into the worst terrorist attacks in American history.

The panel intends to issue a final report in July on the hijackings on Sept. 11, 2001 that killed nearly 3,000, destroyed the World Trade Centers in New York and damaged the Pentagon outside Washington. A fourth plane commandeered by terrorists crashed in the countryside in Pennsylvania.

The staff report pieced together information on the development of bin Laden's network, from the far-flung training camps in Afghanistan and elsewhere, to funding from "well-placed financial facilitators and diversions of funds from Islamic charities."

Reports that bin Laden had a huge personal fortune to finance acts of terror are overstated, the report said.

The description of the training camp operations contained elements of faint, grudging praise.

"A worldwide jihad needed terrorists who could bomb embassies or hijack airliners, but it also needed foot soldiers for the Taliban in its war against the Northern Alliance, and guerrillas who could shoot down Russian helicopters in Chechnya or ambush Indian units in Kashmir," it said.

According to one unnamed senior al-Qaida associate, various ideas were floated by mujahadeen in Afghanistan, the commission said. The options included taking over a launcher and forcing Russian scientists to fire a nuclear missile at the United States, mounting mustard gas or cyanide attacks against Jewish areas in Iraq or releasing poison gas into the air conditioning system of a targeted building.

"Last but not least, hijacking an aircraft and crashing it into an airport or nearby city," it said.

The Iraq connection long suggested by administration officials gained no currency in the report.

"Bin Laden is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded," the report said. "There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al-Qaida also occurred" after bin Laden moved his operations to Afghanistan in 1996, "but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship," it said.

"Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al-Qaida and Iraq," the report said.

In a separate report, the commission staff said that senior al-Qaida planner Khalid Shaihk Mohammed initially proposed a Sept. 11 attack involving 10 planes. An expanded target list included the CIA and FBI headquarters, unidentified nuclear plants and tall buildings in California and Washington state.

That ambitious plan was rejected by bin Laden, who ultimately approved a scaled-back mission involving four planes, the report said. Mohammed wanted more hijackers for those planes - 25 or 26, instead of 19.

The commission has identified at least 10 al-Qaida operatives who were to participate but could not take part for reasons including visa problems and suspicion by officials at airports in the United States and overseas.

From a seamless operation, the report portrays a plot riven by internal dissent, including disagreement over whether to target the White House or the Capitol that was apparently never resolved prior to the attacks. Bin Laden also had to overcome opposition to attacking the United States from Mullah Omar, leader of the former Taliban regime, who was under pressure from Pakistan to keep al-Qaida confined.

The United States toppled the regime in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, but Omar has eluded capture, as has al-Qaida.



AP-WS-06-16-04 1110EDT

When are you going to get the point of arguing the definintion of a 2 letter word like " it". I don't care if Saddam can't even pronounce the word AL-Qaeda. If Bush had to lie to get rid of the SOB and at the same time put us in good strategic position to fight the war on terror it's fine with me. I understand all the bullshit he's up against. Isn't it sad that someone might have to resort to lying because some of the country is to chicken shit and self centered to do what is neccessary. The left has NO plan to fight terrorism period. Stop the bull and come up with YOUR plan!
 
Originally posted by dilloduck
When are you going to get the point of arguing the definintion of a 2 letter word like " it". I don't care if Saddam can't even pronounce the word AL-Qaeda. If Bush had to lie to get rid of the SOB and at the same time put us in good strategic position to fight the war on terror it's fine with me. I understand all the bullshit he's up against. Isn't it sad that someone might have to resort to lying because some of the country is to chicken shit and self centered to do what is neccessary. The left has NO plan to fight terrorism period. Stop the bull and come up with YOUR plan!

Interesting. I've never seen that spin on it before. Pretty screwed up that people still can't get behind the Pres & the military and let them do what needs to be done. The longer they bitch, the longer this gets dragged out.....


UP THE IRONS SE/MB:D
 
Originally posted by dilloduck
When are you going to get the point of arguing the definintion of a 2 letter word like " it". I don't care if Saddam can't even pronounce the word AL-Qaeda. If Bush had to lie to get rid of the SOB and at the same time put us in good strategic position to fight the war on terror it's fine with me. I understand all the bullshit he's up against. Isn't it sad that someone might have to resort to lying because some of the country is to chicken shit and self centered to do what is neccessary. The left has NO plan to fight terrorism period. Stop the bull and come up with YOUR plan!

Frankly, you are saying what most of us believe.... but as you say, are too afraid to admit it. So I admit that I too don't care if he lied, because the end-result is what matters most!

Bush can use the perfect liberal excuse, he can say, "I lied cuz you made me".
 
So they have John Lehman from the 9/11 panel on CBS this morning, being asked about Iraq/Bin Laden. Just as he is correcting Rene Sieler (sp?) - that there IS a connection between the 2 the little news flash running across the bottom of the screen states "....Panel also found no link between Al-Qaida and Iraq" Total contradiction between the words coming out of the man's mouth and what they are reporting.

Unreal. Tell me again how the media doesn't mold the news the way they see fit.....
:arabia:
 
No, that's what you did when you saw the top article on the 9-11 Commission's report that refuted any Hussein/9-11 connection.
Actually, that's not what I'm doing. I realize there may not be a direct 9-11 connection, but that doesn't mean there is no connection between Iraq and AQ like some people would have you believe.

It's public record that the CIA armed and trained Laden and his gang.
Public record? Hardly. The CIA did help some of the groups against the Soviets, but no one really knew much about Bin Laden then. Also, many of those people would end up being part of the anti-Taliban forces (which was pro-AQ) in Afghanistan.
 
Bush Disputes Al Qaida-Saddam Conclusion

14 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!


By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) on Thursday disputed the Sept. 11 commission's finding that there was no "collaborative relationship" between Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) and the al-Qaida terrorist network responsible for the attacks.


"There was a relationship between Iraq (news - web sites) and al-Qaida," Bush insisted following a meeting with his Cabinet at the White House.


"This administration never said that the 9-11 attacks were orchestrated between Saddam and al-Qaida," he said.


"We did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida, for example, Iraqi intelligence agents met with (Osama) bin Laden, the head of al-Qaida in Sudan."


The independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks said Wednesday that no evidence exists that al-Qaida had strong ties to Saddam Hussein — a central justification the Bush administration had for toppling the former Iraqi regime. Bush also argued that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, which have not been found, and that he ruled his country by with an iron fist and tortured political opponents.


Although bin Laden asked for help from Iraq in the mid-1990s, Saddam's government never responded, according to a report by the commission staff based on interviews with government intelligence and law enforcement officials. The report asserted that "no credible evidence" has emerged that Iraq was involved in the Sept. 11 strikes.


Bush said Saddam was a threat because he had not only ties to al-Qaida, but to other terrorist networks as well.


"He was a threat because he provided safe haven for a terrorist like al-Zarqawi who is still killing innocents inside Iraq," he said, referring to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is considered the most dangerous foreign fighter in Iraq and one of the world's top terrorists.


Attention on al-Zarqawi has increased in recent months as he became a more vocal terror figure, due in part to three recordings released on the Internet, including the video showing the beheading of American businessman Nicholas Berg. The State Department and other agencies that handle counterterrorism are considering raising the reward for al-Zarqawi from $10 million to $25 million, putting him on par with two al-Qaida leaders and Saddam, now jailed.


"The world is better off and America is more secure without Saddam Hussein in power," Bush told reporters in the Cabinet Room where he met with his advisers to discuss Iraq and the economy.


It was Bush's 25th meeting with the Cabinet since the start of his presidency in January 2001.
 

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