Next... Anchor Babies.

[tsalkonocii]

Basically, Arizona is going to punish children for the sins of their parents. Way to go Arizona.

How is making them get in line or go home and making their parents obey the law punishing them?

 

[Madeline]

American citizenship is the birthright of every child born here. This is a blatantly unconstitutional bill and one that does Arizona no good.

It's not unconstitutional at all. As children of non-citizens, they are citizens of their parents' country. Thus they are subject to that nation's jurisdiction and not wholly to that of the US. Hence they do not meet the conditions laid out in the 14th amendment.

What 'Subject to the Jurisdiction Thereof' Really Means

Wishful thinking, but wrong. Born here means citizen; the motives or legal status of the parents are wholly irrelevant.

 

[tsalkonocii]

Legislation like this just plays into the hands of those who would like to persuade us that anyone who opposes Amnesty for illegals is a racist creep.

Fuck those people.

Tel these men they just hate Hispanics and see what response you get:

Like it or not, there are a lot of Hispanics who love this country and hate those who would undermine its sovereignty. A lot of our Border Patrol agents are Hispanic and a great many, if not most, law-abiding Americans of Hispanic descent wholly approve of Arizona's recent actions.

 

[Bullfighter]

Yes most not ALL. Just who do think is doing all the protesting in the state of CA? anchor babies who dont want their illegal parents deported. Anchor babies will vote and do anything to protect their illegal parents status in this country.

If you are not loyal to the American system then OUT!

For those who are not supporting the federal laws of immigration today, maybe I won't support the FEDERAL/STATE/LOCAL INCOME TAX tomorrow.

WTF does it mean to "be loyal to the American system"? MY America system allows for freedom of speech and thought....I'm not obligated to bless everything the government does in order to remain here. And WTF would you deport me to anyway? Daddy was a Scottish immigrant but we can't even tell where Mommy was from, though my brother thinks she was Dutch. Gonna cut me in half and ship body parts all over Europe?

Reasonable, patriotic Americans can disagree about immigration just as they can anything else. If this offends you, move somewhere that group think is prized. May I suggest China?

A few Mexicans crossing the border into the US is not an invasion, but when millions do it after the Mexican presidents of several administration PROMISED the American people that they will DO SOMETHING about these MEXICANS WHO VIOLATE AMERICAN SOVEREIGNTY, That IS an invasion with the blessing of the Mexican government.

 

[tsalkonocii]

"Anchor babies" are American citizens. Not "anchor babies". Until the constitution changes, they deserve the same respect and decency as any other American citizen.

No, they're not. They don't meet the conditions laid out in the 14th

 

[Madeline]

I agree Bullfighter -- but why do they come? What about traitorous American businesses and employers who hire these people knowing they are illegals? There's enough blame to lay on everyone, even you and I.

 

[tsalkonocii]

Any child born in the US is an American citizen every bit as much as you are, syrenn. Wishing that were different is not going to change it...and in my opinion, it should not be changed.

Why do you lie? That's not what the constitution says

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside...

What 'Subject to the Jurisdiction Thereof' Really Means

 

[tsalkonocii]

I agree Bullfighter -- but why do they come? What about traitorous American businesses and employers who hire these people knowing they are illegals? There's enough blame to lay on everyone, even you and I.

You admit to harboring illegals?

 

[tsalkonocii]

If you are not loyal to the American system then OUT!

For those who are not supporting the federal laws of immigration today, maybe I won't support the FEDERAL/STATE/LOCAL INCOME TAX tomorrow.

WTF does it mean to "be loyal to the American system"? MY America system allows for freedom of speech and thought....I'm not obligated to bless everything the government does in order to remain here. And WTF would you deport me to anyway? Daddy was a Scottish immigrant but we can't even tell where Mommy was from, though my brother thinks she was Dutch. Gonna cut me in half and ship body parts all over Europe?

Reasonable, patriotic Americans can disagree about immigration just as they can anything else. If this offends you, move somewhere that group think is prized. May I suggest China?

A few Mexicans crossing the border into the US is not an invasion, but when millions do it after the Mexican presidents of several administration PROMISED the American people that they will DO SOMETHING about these MEXICANS WHO VIOLATE AMERICAN SOVEREIGNTY, That IS an invasion with the blessing of the Mexican government.

Mexico's president, Felipe Calderon says Mexico extends into U.S.

FELIPE CALDERON, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I have said that Mexico doesn't end at the border

CNN.com - Transcripts

 

[Madeline]

"Anchor babies" are American citizens. Not "anchor babies". Until the constitution changes, they deserve the same respect and decency as any other American citizen.

No, they're not. They don't meet the conditions laid out in the 14th

You are 100% WRONG.

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive.

The law contains one other section of historical note, concerning the Panama Canal Zone and the nation of Panama. In 8 USC 1403, the law states that anyone born in the Canal Zone or in Panama itself, on or after February 26, 1904, to a mother and/or father who is a United States citizen, was "declared" to be a United States citizen. Note that the terms "natural-born" or "citizen at birth" are missing from this section.

In 2008, when Arizona Senator John McCain ran for president on the Republican ticket, some theorized that because McCain was born in the Canal Zone, he was not actually qualified to be president. However, it should be noted that section 1403 was written to apply to a small group of people to whom section 1401 did not apply. McCain is a natural-born citizen under 8 USC 1401(c): "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person." Not everyone agrees that this section includes McCain — but absent a court ruling either way, we must presume citizenship.

Constitutional Topic: Citizenship - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

The children of illegal immigrants are just as subject to the jurisdiction of the US as your kidlets are.

 

[tsalkonocii]

Thanks for proving me correct again.

There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States.

http://federalistblog.us/2007/09/revisiting_subject_to_the_jurisdiction.html

 

[Bullfighter]

"Anchor babies" are American citizens. Not "anchor babies". Until the constitution changes, they deserve the same respect and decency as any other American citizen.

No, they're not. They don't meet the conditions laid out in the 14th

You are 100% WRONG.

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive.

The law contains one other section of historical note, concerning the Panama Canal Zone and the nation of Panama. In 8 USC 1403, the law states that anyone born in the Canal Zone or in Panama itself, on or after February 26, 1904, to a mother and/or father who is a United States citizen, was "declared" to be a United States citizen. Note that the terms "natural-born" or "citizen at birth" are missing from this section.

In 2008, when Arizona Senator John McCain ran for president on the Republican ticket, some theorized that because McCain was born in the Canal Zone, he was not actually qualified to be president. However, it should be noted that section 1403 was written to apply to a small group of people to whom section 1401 did not apply. McCain is a natural-born citizen under 8 USC 1401(c): "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person." Not everyone agrees that this section includes McCain — but absent a court ruling either way, we must presume citizenship.

Constitutional Topic: Citizenship - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

The children of illegal immigrants are just as subject to the jurisdiction of the US as your kidlets are.

But as loyal Americans, those "Mexican" children should have their undocumented parents thrown out of the country. BUT THEY DON'T THEREFORE SHOWING THEIR LOYALTY TO A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT-MEXICO!

 

[Madeline]

WTF does it mean to "be loyal to the American system"? MY America system allows for freedom of speech and thought....I'm not obligated to bless everything the government does in order to remain here. And WTF would you deport me to anyway? Daddy was a Scottish immigrant but we can't even tell where Mommy was from, though my brother thinks she was Dutch. Gonna cut me in half and ship body parts all over Europe?

Reasonable, patriotic Americans can disagree about immigration just as they can anything else. If this offends you, move somewhere that group think is prized. May I suggest China?

A few Mexicans crossing the border into the US is not an invasion, but when millions do it after the Mexican presidents of several administration PROMISED the American people that they will DO SOMETHING about these MEXICANS WHO VIOLATE AMERICAN SOVEREIGNTY, That IS an invasion with the blessing of the Mexican government.

Mexico's president, Felipe Calderon says Mexico extends into U.S.

FELIPE CALDERON, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I have said that Mexico doesn't end at the border

CNN.com - Transcripts

Felipe Calderon is a puppethead, doubtless completely devoted to the Mexican elite and the status quo. What do you expect him to say? If 90% of the poor and criminal of your nation were agitating to leave, would you oppose them? I'm sure Castro said something similar before the Mariel boat lift -- but that doesn't make either man correct.

 

[tsalkonocii]

No, they're not. They don't meet the conditions laid out in the 14th

You are 100% WRONG.

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive.

The law contains one other section of historical note, concerning the Panama Canal Zone and the nation of Panama. In 8 USC 1403, the law states that anyone born in the Canal Zone or in Panama itself, on or after February 26, 1904, to a mother and/or father who is a United States citizen, was "declared" to be a United States citizen. Note that the terms "natural-born" or "citizen at birth" are missing from this section.

In 2008, when Arizona Senator John McCain ran for president on the Republican ticket, some theorized that because McCain was born in the Canal Zone, he was not actually qualified to be president. However, it should be noted that section 1403 was written to apply to a small group of people to whom section 1401 did not apply. McCain is a natural-born citizen under 8 USC 1401(c): "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person." Not everyone agrees that this section includes McCain — but absent a court ruling either way, we must presume citizenship.

Constitutional Topic: Citizenship - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

The children of illegal immigrants are just as subject to the jurisdiction of the US as your kidlets are.

But as loyal Americans, those "Mexican" children should have their undocumented parents thrown out of the country. BUT THEY DON'T THEREFORE SHOWING THEIR LOYALTY TO A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT-MEXICO!

They are children of foreign nationals and they are not naturalized ans American nationals, hence not meeting the criteria laid out in the 14th and not being conferred citizenship upon birth

What 'Subject to the Jurisdiction Thereof' Really Means

 

[syrenn]

I agree Bullfighter -- but why do they come? What about traitorous American businesses and employers who hire these people knowing they are illegals? There's enough blame to lay on everyone, even you and I.

It makes no difference WHY they come. If they come illegal they are illegal.

If children of illegals were BY law illegal it would stem the tide of illegals coming and popping out anchor babies the second they get here in order to STAY and receive welfare.


AND I am not just talking about mexicans, make no mistake, I am talking about ALL illegals from every country in the world. I don't care where they are from illegal is illegal.

 

[Madeline]

The children of illegal immigrants are just as subject to the jurisdiction of the US as your kidlets are.

But as loyal Americans, those "Mexican" children should have their undocumented parents thrown out of the country. BUT THEY DON'T THEREFORE SHOWING THEIR LOYALTY TO A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT-MEXICO!

There is no legal proceeding for removing any natural born American citizen's citizenship that relies solely on that person's advocacy for a political position. To my knowledge, an American can lose his citizenship only by accepting citizenship from another nation antagonistic to ours. You are invested by virtue of the constitution with the inalienable right to agitate for any peculiar or unpopular position you wish without endangering your citizenship. And I would not care to live here if that ever changed.

 

[tsalkonocii]

why do people like madeline hate the idea of America as a sovereign nation?

 

[froggy]

Wishful thinking, but wrong. Born here means citizen; the motives or legal status of the parents are wholly irrelevant.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

If you are here illegal and pregnant then the child is also illegal and should be denied citizenship because of the illegal act. that should be the new law to put in force'

 

[Bullfighter]

Wishful thinking, but wrong. Born here means citizen; the motives or legal status of the parents are wholly irrelevant.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

If you are here illegal and pregnant then the child is also illegal and should be denied citizenship because of the illegal act. that should be the new law to put in force'

 

[tsalkonocii]

To my knowledge, an American can lose his citizenship only by accepting citizenship from another nation antagonistic to ours.

Actually, it's any nation at all[except Israel]. America does not recognize dual loyalties. With the exception of children, it's all or nothing. Also, your actions can constitute a renunciation of your loyalty to America, as is the case when you serve in foreign armed forces (thereby showing your loyalty to a foreign nation- the Jews are the only exception I know of to this rule; you can fight to kill Arabs in the name of Zionism and still retain your American citizenship).