Newsflash for the anti-Fed conspiracy nuts

I understand it quite well...You have absolutely no fucking idea because you can't even wrap your head around a simple concept like determining how much of X someone -anyone- could buy with $1.00 in 1912, versus what they could purchase today.

You mewl about deflation, without so much of a passing thought as to how inflated, nearly to the point of total worthlessness, the FRN has become over the last 100 years, nor why this is so.

Now, STFU and watch the video...Then, maybe you could *gaaaaasp* read the absolutely pivotal book on the subject.

Creature from Jekyll Island (softbound book)

Who gives a shit what the nominal purchasing power of an Federal Reserve Note was in 1912? That 1912 FRN would buy more, but everyone had far, far fewer FRN's. It's just a medium of exchange. I'll agree to return the FRN to 1912 purchasing power if you agree to work for 1912 wages.


A small point - Federal Reserve Notes did not exist in 1912.

BUT - that being said, and replacing FRN with "one dollar in U.S. currency", I make oddball the same offer - we'll return to 1912 dollar value AND 1912 wages. Around $500 a year
 
Then you refuse to understand what's been going on for over 100 years, yet want to prattle on about the subject.

You are a stone fucking fool.

I have a good grasp of history and can explain anything you like me to.

All you can do is post links to other people's thoughts.
You have no grasp of anything.

The video I posted is the history of the founding of the Fed and why....I'd spend all day transcribing, paraphrasing and posting it.

Of course you would, because you can't explain it in your own words. You'd have to copy it exactly.
 
I understand it quite well...You have absolutely no fucking idea because you can't even wrap your head around a simple concept like determining how much of X someone -anyone- could buy with $1.00 in 1912, versus what they could purchase today.

You mewl about deflation, without so much of a passing thought as to how inflated, nearly to the point of total worthlessness, the FRN has become over the last 100 years, nor why this is so.

Now, STFU and watch the video...Then, maybe you could *gaaaaasp* read the absolutely pivotal book on the subject.

Creature from Jekyll Island (softbound book)

Who gives a shit what the nominal purchasing power of an Federal Reserve Note was in 1912? That 1912 FRN would buy more, but everyone had far, far fewer FRN's. It's just a medium of exchange. I'll agree to return the FRN to 1912 purchasing power if you agree to work for 1912 wages.
There were no FRNs in 1912....DUUUUUH!
Oh for nitpicking fuck's sense. Quit being a dick.

Let's try this again, this time without the nits:

I'll agree to return to the purchasing power of a 1912 US gold-backed dollar (wherein 1 dollar would purchas approximately .04oz of gold) if you agree to accept a wage commensurate with 1912 wages.
 
Insisting that somebody watch a video explaining your position just shows you don't understand the topic well enough to explain it clearly and concisely. This is a discussion forum. Nobody is here to be recommended videos and books and do your homework for you. People are here to discuss things.


One thing that constantly amazes me is how people ascribe this magical significance to the buying power of $1. I suppose nobody realises that incomes aren't constant? Inflation raises all prices. Including the price of labour (that is, your wage). The thing we care about isn't how much a dollar can buy ($1/price level) but how many real goods you and your income can buy (income/price level). What would be a problem is if prices went up but your income remained the same. That'd properly reduce your buying power. But inflation raises both prices and your income in proportion. If you double all wages and prices, the buying power of a dollar is now half as much; but your buying power is exactly the same. Your ability to buy things is the same as it used to be; the only difference being that now all the numbers on things have doubled.

That's not to say inflation isn't bad. Just that the "how much milk cost a hundred years ago" argument is dumb.
 
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.,.Deflation helps - wealthy people This should be common sense, but it apparently isn't. Think of it this way. If I've got half of all the money in the U.S. stuffed in my mattress...
So we can say deflation helps people who like lumpy mattresses, but that leaves most wealthy people being hurt by deflation just like everyone else.
 
...Who gives a shit what the nominal purchasing power of an Federal Reserve Note was in 1912?....
Lot's of people. In fact, here are a couple right here:
breslin_l.jpg
 
Insisting that somebody watch a video explaining your position just shows you don't understand the topic well enough to explain it clearly and concisely. This is a discussion forum. Nobody is here to be recommended videos and books and do your homework for you. People are here to discuss things.


One thing that constantly amazes me is how people ascribe this magical significance to the buying power of $1. I suppose nobody realises that incomes aren't constant? Inflation raises all prices. Including the price of labour (that is, your wage). The thing we care about isn't how much a dollar can buy ($1/price level) but how many real goods you and your income can buy (income/price level). What would be a problem is if prices went up but your income remained the same. That'd properly reduce your buying power. But inflation raises both prices and your income in proportion. If you double all wages and prices, the buying power of a dollar is now half as much; but your buying power is exactly the same. Your ability to buy things is the same as it used to be; the only difference being that now all the numbers on things have doubled.

That's not to say inflation isn't bad. Just that the "how much milk cost a hundred years ago" argument is dumb.

ODDBALL, take not above!
 
This should be common sense, but it apparently isn't.

Those of us who are opposed to the Fed or want it run by a computer as Milton Friedman did want a stable money supply with no inflation or deflation. Now you've got the basics.

The advantage of stable money is that, 1) innocent people don't get ripped off by inflation and deflation and, 2) price signals are constant allowing us the more easily find the products with greater comparative value and thus improve our standard of living.
 
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...Milton Friedman did want a stable money supply with no inflation or deflation...
Any chance you might have a link to that quote, or is that another one of those "everyone-knows-it-so-it's-true" things? Considering that a living market means prices are always changing, a complete lack of inflation/deflation couldn't mean stable money --it would have to mean frozen money.
 
Deflations hurts -
people with business loans
people with home loans
people trying to get business loans
people trying to get home loans


Deflation helps -
wealthy people


This should be common sense, but it apparently isn't.

Think of it this way. If I've got half of all the money in the U.S. stuffed in my mattress, and the money supply contracts, I've still got the same amount of money - but you all out in the world struggling to get by needing lines of credit to start a new business or keep one running -will have less of it. Making it harder for you. and easier for me.

I always get a snicker when I see a "END THE FED" bumper sticker... Gawd, people think they're so brooding and profound. :rolleyes:

As if they have a clue the immediate, devastating, and widespread poverty that would result.
 
...Milton Friedman did want a stable money supply with no inflation or deflation...
Any chance you might have a link to that quote, or is that another one of those "everyone-knows-it-so-it's-true" things? Considering that a living market means prices are always changing, a complete lack of inflation/deflation couldn't mean stable money --it would have to mean frozen money.

Friedman did not believe in a stable money supply. He believed in expansion of it.


Early Friedman had his famous K-Percent Rule, where the money supply would grow at the same rate as long run GDP growth. This would result in zero inflation on average.

Later in his life he wanted to freeze the quantity of high powered money (A k-percent rule where k = 0): Milton Friedman on Money | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty
 
Deflations hurts -
people with business loans
people with home loans
people trying to get business loans
people trying to get home loans


Deflation helps -
wealthy people


This should be common sense, but it apparently isn't.

Think of it this way. If I've got half of all the money in the U.S. stuffed in my mattress, and the money supply contracts, I've still got the same amount of money - but you all out in the world struggling to get by needing lines of credit to start a new business or keep one running -will have less of it. Making it harder for you. and easier for me.

The part you are forgetting ( or leaving out) is that people won't need as much money because the cost of living will go down.


And part you are forgetting is that in order for debts of the past (at interest) to be repaid, somebody has to take on more debt (at interest) today.

So when DEFLATION happens there isn't enough NEW money going into the sytem to repay the OLD debts.


People will have more disposable income and be able to save money.

Only those people and businesses without debt. Which is, FYI a very small part of the overall community.


People who are able to save money and pay their bills will have good credit and be able to get loans.

IF the banksters feel confident enough of their own assets to loan it out.

Which is, as you have obviously missed, not exactly their state of mind right now.


People who save money will have down payments that will help them get loans and just maybe they won't need to borrow money because they will be able to save the money they need in a reasonable amount of time.

Yeah and maybe pigs will fly, too, but DEFINITELY you need to read some books about how the macroeconomy really works.
 
...Milton Friedman did want a stable money supply with no inflation or deflation...
...a link to that quote, or is that another one of those "everyone-knows-it-so-it's-true" things? Considering that a living market means prices are always changing, a complete lack of inflation/deflation couldn't mean stable money --it would have to mean frozen money.
...his famous K-Percent Rule, where the money supply would grow at the same rate as long run GDP growth. This would result in zero inflation on average. Later in his life he wanted to freeze the quantity of high powered money (A k-percent rule where k = 0): Milton Friedman on Money | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty
You said Friedman wanted "no inflation". The links you gave had Freidman advocating "low inflation" or "declining inflation". That's different because zero inflation is impossible.
 
This should be common sense, but it apparently isn't.

Those of us who are opposed to the Fed or want it run by a computer as Milton Friedman did want a stable money supply with no inflation or deflation. Now you've got the basics.

The advantage of stable money is that, 1) innocent people don't get ripped off by inflation and deflation and, 2) price signals are constant allowing us the more easily find the products with greater comparative value and thus improve our standard of living.



The Gold Standard will not give you that.
There is no such thing as a money supply with no inflation or deflation.
 
The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.

~Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson never said that.
 
Deflations hurts -
people with business loans
people with home loans
people trying to get business loans
people trying to get home loans


Deflation helps -
wealthy people


This should be common sense, but it apparently isn't.

Think of it this way. If I've got half of all the money in the U.S. stuffed in my mattress, and the money supply contracts, I've still got the same amount of money - but you all out in the world struggling to get by needing lines of credit to start a new business or keep one running -will have less of it. Making it harder for you. and easier for me.

Deflation helps anyone with a savings. Not just rich people save. SMART people save. I am not even close to rich and I started 2 businesses since this recession hit, and have done well, largely because prices were decent and opportunity was ripe.

You have no clue what you're talking about.
 
Deflations hurts -
people with business loans
people with home loans
people trying to get business loans
people trying to get home loans


Deflation helps -
wealthy people


This should be common sense, but it apparently isn't.

Think of it this way. If I've got half of all the money in the U.S. stuffed in my mattress, and the money supply contracts, I've still got the same amount of money - but you all out in the world struggling to get by needing lines of credit to start a new business or keep one running -will have less of it. Making it harder for you. and easier for me.

Deflation helps anyone with a savings. Not just rich people save. SMART people save. I am not even close to rich and I started 2 businesses since this recession hit, and have done well, largely because prices were decent and opportunity was ripe.

You have no clue what you're talking about.
Of course he doesn't.

But he's perfectly happy to brand the people who want to do away with the Fed as "conspiracy nuts", then gets all indignant and butthurt when his complete ignorance and subsequent stupid comments are exposed for the stupidity that they are.
 
Deflations hurts -
people with business loans
people with home loans
people trying to get business loans
people trying to get home loans


Deflation helps -
wealthy people


This should be common sense, but it apparently isn't.

Think of it this way. If I've got half of all the money in the U.S. stuffed in my mattress, and the money supply contracts, I've still got the same amount of money - but you all out in the world struggling to get by needing lines of credit to start a new business or keep one running -will have less of it. Making it harder for you. and easier for me.

Deflation helps anyone with a savings.

Deflation hurts anyone who needs a job or who runs a small or medium sized business. Basically anyone who works for a living. The increase in value of your savings won't matter when your wages or salary is cut, not to mention the return on savings is quite small to non-existent in flat or deflationary environments.

Not just rich people save. SMART people save. I am not even close to rich and I started 2 businesses since this recession hit, and have done well, largely because prices were decent and opportunity was ripe.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Smart people also want higher wages and salaries and to have a job. Unless they've already got enough to live on for the rest of their lives.
 
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