news on the real reason for homosexual marriage need.

[Avatar4321]

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ain't it the truth!

I wish I could laugh, but its more sad than funny to me:-/ Why is it people can be so foolish sometimes?

 

[Avatar4321]

Oh Matts, poor little naive Matts,
What you seem to be missing here is that it's not about rights, it's not about love for whomever or whatever, it's not about legal rights..... it is about coercing society into legitamizing their behavior. In selfishly doing so they may feel better about themselves for a little while but the result will be more innocent kids getting involved in experimenting with this very destructive lifestyle.

I think you mentioned something here that I wanted to expand on it alittle.

You are right, they are trying to make themselves feel better about themselves. But why exactly? The fact of the matter is they are miserable. Their life is unfulfilled because that behavior does not lead to a fulfilling life. If they were really happy with their life it really wouldn't matter. But alot of them are not, and rather than ask themselves what they are doing wrong with their life to make themselves miserable, they are blaming others in society. They think they are miserable because society is oppressing them.

And the dirty little secret is even if gay marriage was passed tomorrow and they could marry whomever they want and society completely accepted them, they would still be completely miserable. Because society isnt the problem, they are. Their behavior is making them miserable. Because wickedness never was, nor can it ever be happiness. You may confuse the physical pleasure you experience as happiness for a while, but true and lasting happiness comes only through living a moral and upright life.

Making bad choices may eventually sear your conscience to the point where you no longer feel bad about it. But you cant avoid the consequences of those bad choices which will always be: Unhappiness, a loss of self esteem, and death of all that which is good in you.

 

[Avatar4321]

Gunny... sitarro... OCA... 'men', this disgusting excuse of a human krammer will NEVER understand ANYTHING you try and explain to him about MORALS, NATURE, or RIGHT FROM WRONG. He's so far out there in left field with such a warped sense of reality, his reasoning is in the toilet. God only knows how he got that way, but the fact remains, he's fucking OUT TO LUNCH!

No one is so far that they cant be reached, unfortunately sometimes they have to learn a number of lifes lessons the hard way.

 

[Avatar4321]

What is the "gay lifestyle"? Is that what you call it when two consenting adults of the same gender fall in love and decide to be together? If so, why doesn't anyone talk about the "straight lifestyle?"

This has got to be one of the dumbest statements ive seen in a long time. Since when do people not talk about the "straight lifestyle"? They might not call it that, but people talk about normal relationships all the time. I mean without them society would be unable to perpetuate itself. I just cant for the life of me figure out why you would think no one talks about it.

 

[Gunny]

What is the "gay lifestyle"? Is that what you call it when two consenting adults of the same gender fall in love and decide to be together? If so, why doesn't anyone talk about the "straight lifestyle?"

You need a picture with the "big" crayons? There is no reason to identify the accepted norm as "straight" lifestyle. It's a given, and exists in every facet of our society.

No one is asking for your approval of any marriage, gay or straight, just for the right to enter into a legal partnership based on love and trust, to be able to protect each partner and their children. That's it. Why is that so difficult to understand? It's not about validation, acceptance, or anything else, it's about protection of a couple and their children.

Wrong. They very much ARE demanding our approval, and it is very much about legitimizing abnormal behavior.

They already possess the exact same rights everyone else does. It isn'about protection of a couple, it's about making laws that cater solely to a minority's abnormal behavior. Who's next? People that want to take a crap in the middle of the street?

Now I realize that some of you think that gay people shouldn't be raising children. I'd like to see any of you come up with an independent study backing up your opinion.

Bullshit argument. If you want to blind yourself to the fact that two gays raising a child are going to push their lifestyle on the child, feel free to keep your head right where it is. "Independent studies" not required when common sense and logic are as obvious as daylight.

HIV/AIDS is most rapidly spreading in poor countries without sanitation and birth control, and most especially from infected mothers to their children. In the industrialized world the spread has slowed because of sex education. It's still a problem, but not nearly to the degree it is in Africa and other areas.

acludem

/

 

[mattskramer]

I wonder if these homosexuals that are pushing for a special change in the definition of marriage just for them realize that they have to have a blood test that will reveal everything that they may be carrying in order to get married? It might be a way to quarintine the carriers of HIV/AIDS.

I don’t remember my wife and I having to take a blood test in order for us to get married. Anyway, I have no objection. If heterosexuals have to get blood tests in order to get a marriage license, gay couples should have to take a blood test in order to get a “civil union”.

 

[sitarro]

I think you mentioned something here that I wanted to expand on it alittle.

You are right, they are trying to make themselves feel better about themselves. But why exactly? The fact of the matter is they are miserable. Their life is unfulfilled because that behavior does not lead to a fulfilling life. If they were really happy with their life it really wouldn't matter. But alot of them are not, and rather than ask themselves what they are doing wrong with their life to make themselves miserable, they are blaming others in society. They think they are miserable because society is oppressing them.

And the dirty little secret is even if gay marriage was passed tomorrow and they could marry whomever they want and society completely accepted them, they would still be completely miserable. Because society isnt the problem, they are. Their behavior is making them miserable. Because wickedness never was, nor can it ever be happiness. You may confuse the physical pleasure you experience as happiness for a while, but true and lasting happiness comes only through living a moral and upright life.

Making bad choices may eventually sear your conscience to the point where you no longer feel bad about it. But you cant avoid the consequences of those bad choices which will always be: Unhappiness, a loss of self esteem, and death of all that which is good in you.

.

Tried to Rep you for this Av but you know the memo about spreading reps. Your post is a perfect read of my mind.

Working at an art supply store I met many creative, "progressives'', liberals, and homosexuals. They all had the same thing in common, a need to somehow have their life choices validated by someone.

Many were outcasts growing up, I know that feeling because as a left brained person that has been drawing since I was three, I was different from my siblings and friends. This difference made me become even more different, always needing to do the opposite of everyone else. In some ways this is a curse but it is more often a blessing. I notice things on a typical drive in the country that people I am with never see or even care that they miss. With that I also am forced to notice the negatives that make life a bit of hell for me.

Each individual has their own problems in life but the more different you are from the herd the more emphasized those differences become. I have known a number of lesbians that had been molested as children by their fathers or other adult men in their life, they didn't want anything to do with men. Who knows what happens in life that makes a guy think he wants another guy but it has been rare that I have met one that is truly happy with that choice.

I don't know if being different growing up contributes to homosexuality but it seems a lot of them are drawn to creative outlets in life. I did get to know a lot of both lesbians and homosexuals and what you describe is very true. That is why I said that about how they may feel better for a little while but only until they find that it wasn't what they were looking for. The flamboyant lifestyle, the sexual crazyness, the staying amongst themselves, all are signs of a need for validation. Very few homosexuals that I knew had a stable life(1 couple). Adopting a child would be another way that they think they would become more normal yet all they actually accomplish is more abnormalcy and they add the destruction of the life of a young child to that .

 

[mattskramer]

However, if you actually bothered listening to those "old fashion" Christian values that have been taught since the beginning of the earth, such as chastity before marriage and fidelity afterwards, AIDs would be eliminated within a generation.

Promiscuity and homosexuality are two different terms. Perhaps Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker should have demonstrated those “Christian” values by example. Yes. The Bible has good advise. Yet, the Bible had advice that I would question.

Ephesians insists that wives should submit to their husbands in everything (5:22-24).

http://www.faithinamerica.info/newSite/essay.html

A form of serial polygamy was the levirate marriage. When a married man in Israel died childless, his widow was to have intercourse with his eldest brother. If he died without producing an heir, she turned to the next brother, and, if necessary, the next, and so on. Jesus mentions this custom without criticism (Mark 12:18-27 par.).

The Old and New Testaments both regarded slavery as normal and nowhere categorically condemned it. Part of that heritage was the use of female slaves, concubines and captives as sexual toys, breeding machines, or involuntary wives by their male owners, which 2 Sam. 5:13, Judges 19-21, and Num. 31:18 permitted.

http://www.forusa.org/articlesandresources/wink-homosexuality.html

I highly recommend that you not follow every piece of advice in the Bible merely because some advice, that seems to be good, is in the Bible. I am not telling you to not read the Bible. I recommend that you read religious books but to also think.

Didn’t Jesus have things to say about prejudice, discrimination, and violence against other people and property?

Perhaps vandals who desecrated the grave of Ryan White, the 18-year-old AIDS victim, should have read the Bible. The grave had been desecrated at least 4 times so far. Ryan White died in 1990 as a hemophiliac who contracted acquired AIDS from a blood transfusion.

 

[mattskramer]

I think you mentioned something here that I wanted to expand on it alittle.

You are right, they are trying to make themselves feel better about themselves. But why exactly? The fact of the matter is they are miserable. Their life is unfulfilled because that behavior does not lead to a fulfilling life. If they were really happy with their life it really wouldn't matter. But alot of them are not, and rather than ask themselves what they are doing wrong with their life to make themselves miserable, they are blaming others in society. They think they are miserable because society is oppressing them.

And the dirty little secret is even if gay marriage was passed tomorrow and they could marry whomever they want and society completely accepted them, they would still be completely miserable. Because society isnt the problem, they are. Their behavior is making them miserable. Because wickedness never was, nor can it ever be happiness. You may confuse the physical pleasure you experience as happiness for a while, but true and lasting happiness comes only through living a moral and upright life.

Making bad choices may eventually sear your conscience to the point where you no longer feel bad about it. But you cant avoid the consequences of those bad choices which will always be: Unhappiness, a loss of self esteem, and death of all that which is good in you.

Wow. Are you a mind reader or a psychologist? :blah2:

 

[liberalogic]

.

Tried to Rep you for this Av but you know the memo about spreading reps. Your post is a perfect read of my mind.

Working at an art supply store I met many creative, "progressives'', liberals, and homosexuals. They all had the same thing in common, a need to somehow have their life choices validated by someone.

Many were outcasts growing up, I know that feeling because as a left brained person that has been drawing since I was three, I was different from my siblings and friends. This difference made me become even more different, always needing to do the opposite of everyone else. In some ways this is a curse but it is more often a blessing. I notice things on a typical drive in the country that people I am with never see or even care that they miss. With that I also am forced to notice the negatives that make life a bit of hell for me.

Each individual has their own problems in life but the more different you are from the herd the more emphasized those differences become. I have known a number of lesbians that had been molested as children by their fathers or other adult men in their life, they didn't want anything to do with men. Who knows what happens in life that makes a guy think he wants another guy but it has been rare that I have met one that is truly happy with that choice.

I don't know if being different growing up contributes to homosexuality but it seems a lot of them are drawn to creative outlets in life. I did get to know a lot of both lesbians and homosexuals and what you describe is very true. That is why I said that about how they may feel better for a little while but only until they find that it wasn't what they were looking for. The flamboyant lifestyle, the sexual crazyness, the staying amongst themselves, all are signs of a need for validation. Very few homosexuals that I knew had a stable life(1 couple). Adopting a child would be another way that they think they would become more normal yet all they actually accomplish is more abnormalcy and they add the destruction of the life of a young child to that .

If we had civil unions with the same benefits as marriage, would you support it? Marriage connotes traditional values and an acceptance within society (though its current state is a far cry from what conservatives claim it to be), while a civil union would connote legalization, but not support for the lifestyle.

I do just have to take issue with the adoption point. I think homosexuals who feel the need to fertilize an egg with one partner's sperm so that they can call it "their child" are selfish. I think infertile heterosexual couples who make medical miracles happen are selfish as well. We have a lot of kids who need homes and support. Anyone, gay or straight, who is deemed suitable to be a parent should adopt of they face infertility.

 

[Avatar4321]

Wow. Are you a mind reader or a psychologist? :blah2:

Im an observer of human behavior. Why people do certain things intrigues me. Maybe i should have been a psychologist or something. But one doesnt need to have a degree in psychology to understand what motivates people. You only need to watch what they do, listen to what they say and ask why.

 

[Avatar4321]

Promiscuity and homosexuality are two different terms. Perhaps Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker should have demonstrated those “Christian” values by example. Yes. The Bible has good advise. Yet, the Bible had advice that I would question.

Ephesians insists that wives should submit to their husbands in everything (5:22-24).

http://www.faithinamerica.info/newSite/essay.html

A form of serial polygamy was the levirate marriage. When a married man in Israel died childless, his widow was to have intercourse with his eldest brother. If he died without producing an heir, she turned to the next brother, and, if necessary, the next, and so on. Jesus mentions this custom without criticism (Mark 12:18-27 par.).

The Old and New Testaments both regarded slavery as normal and nowhere categorically condemned it. Part of that heritage was the use of female slaves, concubines and captives as sexual toys, breeding machines, or involuntary wives by their male owners, which 2 Sam. 5:13, Judges 19-21, and Num. 31:18 permitted.

http://www.forusa.org/articlesandresources/wink-homosexuality.html

I highly recommend that you not follow every piece of advice in the Bible merely because some advice, that seems to be good, is in the Bible. I am not telling you to not read the Bible. I recommend that you read religious books but to also think.

Didn’t Jesus have things to say about prejudice, discrimination, and violence against other people and property?

Perhaps vandals who desecrated the grave of Ryan White, the 18-year-old AIDS victim, should have read the Bible. The grave had been desecrated at least 4 times so far. Ryan White died in 1990 as a hemophiliac who contracted acquired AIDS from a blood transfusion.

First, whats wrong with a wife submitting to the leadership of a righteous husband?

Second, what was wrong with taking care of your brothers family?

Third, Obviously you havent read the scriptures closely if you think that it says women are merely breeding machines or "sex toys"

Fourth, Homosexual behavior is always immoral. It alwasy violates the laws of God. Changing the subject from violating God's commandments to just promiscuity is a nice dodge, but you still miss the point:

If people listened to God, we wouldnt have the problems we have.

As for you arrogant suggestion that I dont think, I have to ask why you think its me thats not thinking. The better question is why arent you thinking? Why is it liberals always seem to think they are thinking for themselves when they try to peddle the same immoral garbage that people have been trying to get away with for thousands of years?

How about instead of just criticizing the commands of God, you bother asking why He is commanding such things? Why is the Lord always commanding people to be chaste and virtuous when it comes to sexual activity?

Tell me, if you think someone wanted to create a religion to control people, would they tell them to refrain from sexual activity or to engage in it? They would tell them to engage in it of course. Because we as humans enjoy sex. You want to get more followers you will tell people whatever you can to get control of them. You would tell them what they wanted to hear so they give you power over them.

That isnt what the Lord does. He gives us standards. Makes us work to reach them sometimes. Maintaining self discipline is not easy all the time. Do you think God is commanding us things just to control our lives? Of course not. He is telling us what we need to do to avoid bad consequences and so that we can grow and reach our full potential. He is trying to teach us to be responsible with life.

But i doubt thats really ever crossed your mind. You probably just declare the Word of the Lord to be ridiculous. You find them to be silly rules so you think anyone who actually suggests living doesnt bother thinking. I find that its the opposite. Those who actually think about the commandments understand why the Lord has given them and will live them because you will never find happiness by not living them.

 

[Avatar4321]

BTW for the last part of that post i just responded to: You cant pick and choice what Christ taught. If you dont accept one part of it why should you accept any of it? You are a hypocrite if you are going to pretend to cite Christ for what you want and but disregard His teachings with anything that doesnt fit your political agenda.

Also, your citatings to Christs teachings against prejudice, discrimination, or violence towards others is irrelevant to the thread. No one is advocating that. That is another problem with the left, you guys want to just label people as bigots for disagreeing with you even when they arent, when reality you guys are the bigggest bigots around.

As for Ryan White, his story is a tragedy. However, that doesnt change a thing. Had people been obedient what the Lord taught, then he never would have received a contaiminated blood.

Regardless how its given, AIDS is a consequence of sin. People seem to think they can sin without hurting anyone. However, innocent people often suffer the most because of the consequences of someone elses sins.

 

[liberalogic]

First, whats wrong with a wife submitting to the leadership of a righteous husband?

Everything. We're all human beings and we all have free will. Just because a person is a woman doesn't mean that she should not have the same authority over every issue that her husband controls.

Fourth, Homosexual behavior is always immoral. It alwasy violates the laws of God. Changing the subject from violating God's commandments to just promiscuity is a nice dodge, but you still miss the point:

If people listened to God, we wouldnt have the problems we have.

No, if people of all sexual preferences practiced intercourse safely, we would not have these problems. Abstinence is not the only remedy.

And God didn't write the Bible, so I'm still waiting for his opinion on homosexuality.

Tell me, if you think someone wanted to create a religion to control people, would they tell them to refrain from sexual activity or to engage in it? They would tell them to engage in it of course. Because we as humans enjoy sex. You want to get more followers you will tell people whatever you can to get control of them. You would tell them what they wanted to hear so they give you power over them.

Actually, it would be the opposite. For instance, in 1984, Orwell creates a society that severely punishes sex for pleasure. Sex is a way to channel your feelings, emotions, frustrations, etc. into a moment of total euphoria and freedom. It's a diversion from religion and authoritarian government. It's in the best interest of a religion to condemn "immoral" sex because it forces people to turn to God instead of the act of freedom itself. If people aren't having sex, they're more apt to unleash that energy into another cause, thus playing into the hands of the church.

Claiming premarital sex sends you to hell creates the prime instinct on which religion preys: fear.

 

[mattskramer]

My point is that if you are going to argue from the Bible, you must agree with every passage in the Bible. Let’s go over some of them.

First, whats wrong with a wife submitting to the leadership of a righteous husband?

There is no exception in the case of domestic violence or abuse. Therefore wives must submit to abusive husbands. Their only escape is if there is adultery.

Explain to me why there is no criticism of slavery whatsoever in the Bible. While you are at it, read Leviticus 20:10 about the punishment for adultery. Then read Matthew 19:9 about how Jesus, himself defines adultery. Think and connect the dots. Do you think that we should stone adulterers? I could come up with many examples of admonitions that would seem funny if taken literally and seriously today.

Check out an excellent article: http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/useditorial042.htm

If people listened to God, we wouldnt have the problems we have.

I listen and I listen but I do not hear God. Does he have an alto voice or does he speak with a soprano? I read the Bible but many things that the Bible says seem to be very cruel as I mentioned above. Anyway, asking people to “listen to God” – your God – is one thing. Calling on government to legislate from the Bible is quite another. You don’t advocate finding every piece of advice in the Bible and then calling on congress me to write it into law? If so, let me get my stones ready. I have a few targets in mind already.

How about instead of just criticizing the commands of God, you bother asking why He is commanding such things? Why is the Lord always commanding people to be chaste and virtuous when it comes to sexual activity?

I don’t have to ask this God about that. It stands to reason that sexual promiscuity is a dangerous behavior.

Tell me, if you think someone wanted to create a religion to control people, would they tell them to refrain from sexual activity or to engage in it? They would tell them to engage in it of course. Because we as humans enjoy sex. You want to get more followers you will tell people whatever you can to get control of them. You would tell them what they wanted to hear so they give you power over them.

You seem to be changing the subject. Anyway, in answer to your question, I would not create a religion to control people. I would allow people, within reason, to do as they please. On the other hand, it seems as though many groups have picked up on the Bible as a tool from which to try to get many oppressive laws enacted. Just review the antics of the “700 Club”. Anyway, before thist pseudo religious/political organization, violence was a pretty good tool in spreading religion. The missions, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were pretty powerful in that respect.