New York Times: $15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business

[NYcarbineer]

Worth to whom? Is the buck or two an hour that some factory worker in China gets a valid determination of what his work is worth?

Does that means every factory worker anywhere else in the world making more is overpaid?

What are you going on about? China? WTF?

If you have an answer you're not comfortable sharing, don't distract--the question is simple and straightforward:
What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

Who determines "worth", and is this just one sided? It's a VALID question that we have been asking you, yet you won't answer it?

my answer to your question is that it will drive wages down farther than they already are, if you think ONLY the business has the right to determine "worth" of a human being or the job they do for the employer....the employer by nature, will always want to pocket more money for himself if he is the only one determining worth....that's not capitalism... Can the future employee examine his possible employer's books to see what he feels he would be worth to that company for the established work that he would be doing and negotiate with such info? Employees are already at a disadvantage in negotiating salaries.

Sure, yeah, blah blah blah, the employee can choose not to work there and go work somewhere else 40 miles from his home if he doesn't like it crapola,

we might as well live in the age of slavery again....when all the power is in the hands of one, the employer or master...and that is simply WRONG, for the country.

Federally mandated minimum wages are unnecessary. It's a state and local issue but even without gov't meddling, the market for labor properly sets the rate. Below is a list of major American employers that have voluntarily raised their pay scale in the past 3 months in response to market conditions:
McDonald's
Aetna
Walmart
T.J. Maxx
Target
Starbucks
Ikea
Gap
Costco
In-N-Out Burger
Ben & Jerry's
Shake Shack
Whole Foods

they've done it because of the screaming and yelling and protests by the movement wanting $15...if the media attention on their rears were not present, would they decide to share in their growth....for YEARS they haven't.

That is your OPINION.
The FACT is as I stated: the employers listed VOLUNTARILY raised their wage scale.

Should we depend on every individual or group of individuals, including businesses, to voluntarily do the right thing?

 

[Londoner]

Where did the NYT say that lifting the minimum wage was undertaken for the purpose of putting fast food out of business?

(Given what we know about the OP, I expect bluster rather than an answer - but I'd like to see the context for this story. The Right has a reputation for distorting the truth to achieve their political goals.)

I'm guessing a story in the NYT predicted that raising the minimum wage would injure fast food - but... once the story passed through the lying Rightwing press, it was altered ever so slightly to make it seem like the NYT was privy to a deeper conspiracy. And of course the people who consume Rightwing media swallowed this garbage hook line & sinker. I'm not saying the Left is incapable of this kind of deception, but I have to consider the source. Also, as a card carrying member of the Left, I hope it isn't true ... Because I like fast food, especially Taco Bell and Subway.

 

[JFK_USA]

So republicans hate the poor get any government assistance. No education credits, no food stamps, nothing.

Then they bitch about poor people making a wage that they could live off of. Do Republicans just want poor people to die?

What is your objection to basing a worker's wages solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

Because it implies the worker and the business are at equal bargaining power when they aren't.

For instance, a company can offer a job at $1/hr and say "Well, that's the worth of the work they put in." So they can hold out for as long as it takes to get a person to accept a job because they have the resources. Then when a person gets desperate enough, they will take it. Then BOOM! That's the market price. So then other businesses follow suit and these workers with their lack of resources will not be able to lobby for a wage increase because they will have no money or time to fight it.

This will send the USA into 3rd world status. So why do you want to send the US into the 3rd world?

 

[LOki]

So republicans hate the poor get any government assistance. No education credits, no food stamps, nothing.

Then they bitch about poor people making a wage that they could live off of. Do Republicans just want poor people to die?

What is your objection to basing a worker's wages solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

Because it implies the worker and the business are at equal bargaining power when they aren't.

Unsubstantiated nonsense.

For instance, a company can offer a job at $1/hr and say "Well, that's the worth of the work they put in." So they can hold out for as long as it takes to get a person to accept a job because they have the resources.

And then the labor goes to where the pay makes sense, and this company eats itself or makes a better offer.

Then when a person gets desperate enough, they will take it.

SO?

Then BOOM! That's the market price.

That's the market price for desperate workers ONLY.

Monopsonies cannot exert coercive power without legislation.

In the real world, there are other kinds of workers, and other kinds of work.

So then other businesses follow suit and these workers with their lack of resources will not be able to lobby for a wage increase because they will have no money or time to fight it.

Or these "other businesses" discover that the market for "desperate workers" has entirely dried up, and they now have to pay rational wages to get workers or lose to the company getting things done.

Then the desperate worker can petition for a raise, and his employer will be obligated to pay rational wages too, or lose workers to competitors.

This will send the USA into 3rd world status. So why do you want to send the US into the 3rd world?

Markets are dynamic, and do not exist in a vacuum as the conclusion from your little vignette requires. Your specially crafted fantasy is only a meaningless appeal to emotion, and is literally no validation for your assertion.

But let me give you this: You are not a pussy. Not like the rest of the Statutory Minimum Wage proponents around here.

You have earned my sincere thanks for making your case in a straightforward manner, rather than attempt disingenuous distractions.

 

[Katzndogz]

Liberals don't like unhealthy fast food. Sure the libtards would like to see them all put out of business. It would limit public choice to arrugula and kale.

 

[bripat9643]

So republicans hate the poor get any government assistance. No education credits, no food stamps, nothing.

Then they bitch about poor people making a wage that they could live off of. Do Republicans just want poor people to die?

The best thing for the poor is a growing economy. All the things you listed harm the economy.

 

[bripat9643]

Unfortunately, those are precisely the kinds of establishments (local proprietorships and the like) that cannot subsidize their workers who are over-paid (by legislative fiat) by under-paying workers whose work is worth more than the statutory minimum wage.

Then they should go out of business.

Fortunately idiots like you don't get to make those decisions.

The People get to set the minimum wage through the legislative process.

So you're saying the idiots like you do get to make those decisions?

 

[bripat9643]

What are you going on about? China? WTF?

If you have an answer you're not comfortable sharing, don't distract--the question is simple and straightforward:
What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

Who determines "worth", and is this just one sided? It's a VALID question that we have been asking you, yet you won't answer it?

my answer to your question is that it will drive wages down farther than they already are, if you think ONLY the business has the right to determine "worth" of a human being or the job they do for the employer....the employer by nature, will always want to pocket more money for himself if he is the only one determining worth....that's not capitalism... Can the future employee examine his possible employer's books to see what he feels he would be worth to that company for the established work that he would be doing and negotiate with such info? Employees are already at a disadvantage in negotiating salaries.

Sure, yeah, blah blah blah, the employee can choose not to work there and go work somewhere else 40 miles from his home if he doesn't like it crapola,

we might as well live in the age of slavery again....when all the power is in the hands of one, the employer or master...and that is simply WRONG, for the country.

Federally mandated minimum wages are unnecessary. It's a state and local issue but even without gov't meddling, the market for labor properly sets the rate. Below is a list of major American employers that have voluntarily raised their pay scale in the past 3 months in response to market conditions:
McDonald's
Aetna
Walmart
T.J. Maxx
Target
Starbucks
Ikea
Gap
Costco
In-N-Out Burger
Ben & Jerry's
Shake Shack
Whole Foods

they've done it because of the screaming and yelling and protests by the movement wanting $15...if the media attention on their rears were not present, would they decide to share in their growth....for YEARS they haven't.

That is your OPINION.
The FACT is as I stated: the employers listed VOLUNTARILY raised their wage scale.

Should we depend on every individual or group of individuals, including businesses, to voluntarily do the right thing?

When not doing "the right thing" means not harming anyone, the answer is yes. Why should anyone be forced to do what you want them to do? Freedom is where I can tell you to go fuck yourself when you ask me to do something I consider to be idiotic or not in my best interests - as if there was a difference between the two.

 

[Ame®icano]

This seems like a good place to ask this question of the statutory minimum wage proponents:

What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

Worth to whom? Is the buck or two an hour that some factory worker in China gets a valid determination of what his work is worth?

Does that means every factory worker anywhere else in the world making more is overpaid?

What are you going on about? China? WTF?

If you have an answer you're not comfortable sharing, don't distract--the question is simple and straightforward:
What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

Who decides what the worker's worth is?

Stop trying to distract from the question being asked. I seriously don't understand why you and every other minimum wage advocate are so reluctant to provide a straightforward answer to my straightforward question.

But I'll answer you. Because I'm not a pussy.

I am not the arbiter of "worth" for anyone but myself, I do not believe that I have the moral authority to make such a determination for others.

For an employment arrangement to be morally valid, the employer and the employee must agree upon what the prospective work is worth.

So now, why don't you just answer my question?

What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

And since you CLEARLY presume someone has the authority to determine worth for everyone, it is valid to ask you these questions: Who do you think should determine worth for everyone else? Upon what moral authority do base your choice?

Imagine how much workers would be worth if lefties were paying them out of their pockets.

 

[Clementine]

Considering what we know about the left, this theory sounds more plausible than the left's claim that it wants minimum wage workers to earn a "living wage."

New York Times 15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business Red Statements​

As noted by the New York Post , the New York Times has let it slip that the real goal of the $15 dollar an hour wage is to drive cheap fast food restaurants out of business. And as they said:

“The restaurant industry . . . will not go down without a fight.”

But, I thought that all the businesses affected by the minimum wage were just greedy and could easily afford the wages they should have been paying all along? I guess that wasn’t true. That certainly wasn’t the case for Z Pizza in Seattle. Z Pizza employed 11 employees, who were convinced their lives would be better since they would now be making the astronomical sum of $15 an hour. The owner, Ritu Shah Burnham, tried everything. She laid off workers, cut hours and even quit paying herself a salary, but in the end, she was forced to close her doors. You see, while most businesses her size had six years before paying the $15, she had only two because she owns a franchise. She got nailed on Obamacare for the same reason.

Liberals in their infinite wisdom (cough cough) they decided that a small franchisee should be lumped together with all the the franchisees and company owned restaurants. To me, this is further proof that the goal is to destroy them. I mean, what difference is there between a franchise restaurant owner with 11 employees and any other pizza joint with 11 employees? This is Michelle Obama’s lunches for adults. The same liberals who demand the right to choose to kill innocent babies, is unwilling to give you the right to decide what to eat. ​

I suspect that fast food places will go to automated machines before they will fold. Raising minimum puts workers out of a job.

Either way, liberals win because they will have more government dependents, which seems to be what they desire. Even a minimum wage at $10 will still keep people below the poverty level and on welfare if they keep their jobs.

 

[auditor0007]

Considering what we know about the left, this theory sounds more plausible than the left's claim that it wants minimum wage workers to earn a "living wage."

New York Times 15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business Red Statements​

As noted by the New York Post , the New York Times has let it slip that the real goal of the $15 dollar an hour wage is to drive cheap fast food restaurants out of business. And as they said:

“The restaurant industry . . . will not go down without a fight.”

But, I thought that all the businesses affected by the minimum wage were just greedy and could easily afford the wages they should have been paying all along? I guess that wasn’t true. That certainly wasn’t the case for Z Pizza in Seattle. Z Pizza employed 11 employees, who were convinced their lives would be better since they would now be making the astronomical sum of $15 an hour. The owner, Ritu Shah Burnham, tried everything. She laid off workers, cut hours and even quit paying herself a salary, but in the end, she was forced to close her doors. You see, while most businesses her size had six years before paying the $15, she had only two because she owns a franchise. She got nailed on Obamacare for the same reason.

Liberals in their infinite wisdom (cough cough) they decided that a small franchisee should be lumped together with all the the franchisees and company owned restaurants. To me, this is further proof that the goal is to destroy them. I mean, what difference is there between a franchise restaurant owner with 11 employees and any other pizza joint with 11 employees? This is Michelle Obama’s lunches for adults. The same liberals who demand the right to choose to kill innocent babies, is unwilling to give you the right to decide what to eat. ​

Using Seattle as a benchmark against raising the minimum wage is a huge mistake. Seattle's economy is booming with the new minimum wage and despite a couple of restaurants closing, many more are opening. The unemployment rate has dropped a full percentage point and is now around 3.3 percent.

Seattle Restaurant Data Demolishes Conservative Argument Against 15 Minimum Wage ThinkProgress

 

[AntiParty]

Considering what we know about the left, this theory sounds more plausible than the left's claim that it wants minimum wage workers to earn a "living wage."

New York Times 15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business Red Statements​

As noted by the New York Post , the New York Times has let it slip that the real goal of the $15 dollar an hour wage is to drive cheap fast food restaurants out of business. And as they said:

“The restaurant industry . . . will not go down without a fight.”

But, I thought that all the businesses affected by the minimum wage were just greedy and could easily afford the wages they should have been paying all along? I guess that wasn’t true. That certainly wasn’t the case for Z Pizza in Seattle. Z Pizza employed 11 employees, who were convinced their lives would be better since they would now be making the astronomical sum of $15 an hour. The owner, Ritu Shah Burnham, tried everything. She laid off workers, cut hours and even quit paying herself a salary, but in the end, she was forced to close her doors. You see, while most businesses her size had six years before paying the $15, she had only two because she owns a franchise. She got nailed on Obamacare for the same reason.

Liberals in their infinite wisdom (cough cough) they decided that a small franchisee should be lumped together with all the the franchisees and company owned restaurants. To me, this is further proof that the goal is to destroy them. I mean, what difference is there between a franchise restaurant owner with 11 employees and any other pizza joint with 11 employees? This is Michelle Obama’s lunches for adults. The same liberals who demand the right to choose to kill innocent babies, is unwilling to give you the right to decide what to eat. ​

Don't listen to the conglomerates.

Raising minimum wage is good for the top Corporations.

It will cause more Monopolies because only the biggest will thrive.

It's why they targeted the worst possible target at first. McDonalds.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Considering what we know about the left, this theory sounds more plausible than the left's claim that it wants minimum wage workers to earn a "living wage."

New York Times 15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business Red Statements​

As noted by the New York Post , the New York Times has let it slip that the real goal of the $15 dollar an hour wage is to drive cheap fast food restaurants out of business. And as they said:

“The restaurant industry . . . will not go down without a fight.”

But, I thought that all the businesses affected by the minimum wage were just greedy and could easily afford the wages they should have been paying all along? I guess that wasn’t true. That certainly wasn’t the case for Z Pizza in Seattle. Z Pizza employed 11 employees, who were convinced their lives would be better since they would now be making the astronomical sum of $15 an hour. The owner, Ritu Shah Burnham, tried everything. She laid off workers, cut hours and even quit paying herself a salary, but in the end, she was forced to close her doors. You see, while most businesses her size had six years before paying the $15, she had only two because she owns a franchise. She got nailed on Obamacare for the same reason.

Liberals in their infinite wisdom (cough cough) they decided that a small franchisee should be lumped together with all the the franchisees and company owned restaurants. To me, this is further proof that the goal is to destroy them. I mean, what difference is there between a franchise restaurant owner with 11 employees and any other pizza joint with 11 employees? This is Michelle Obama’s lunches for adults. The same liberals who demand the right to choose to kill innocent babies, is unwilling to give you the right to decide what to eat. ​

Using Seattle as a benchmark against raising the minimum wage is a huge mistake. Seattle's economy is booming with the new minimum wage and despite a couple of restaurants closing, many more are opening. The unemployment rate has dropped a full percentage point and is now around 3.3 percent.

Seattle Restaurant Data Demolishes Conservative Argument Against 15 Minimum Wage ThinkProgress

From your link
What we have been saying all along....


So far, at least one local restaurant has decided to handle the increase by raising wages to $15 an hour immediately – years ahead of when the law would require it – and do away with tips while raising menu prices significantly

 

[Muhammed]

Do the math. You will pay the minimum wage hike in the food you purchase. People won't pay that much for fast food and maybe not even restaurant food. It's hard enough to make a go of a restaurant.

Yeah, that Big Mac might cost an extra quarter.

I'll go $4.00 but $4.25 is out of the question! I'd rather starve!

You're deluded about the the cost of labor that goes into selling a Big Mack.

Used Mack Trucks for Sale

 

[Muhammed]

I'm pretty sure that the people who make big Macks earn substantially more than minimum wage.

 

[Care4all]

Hmmmm

Who knew that ALL of our cushy and affordable lives relied on the backs of the working poor and how LOW and how LITTLE we could pay these 4% of workers at minimum wage... all so that we could keep inflation down for the whole Nation's middle class and the rich.....??

OH WAIT, the South did that for decades if not centuries off of the backs of slaves....!

BRAVO, and HIP HIP HOORAY for the working poor's backs!!!!

 

[Care4all]

Considering what we know about the left, this theory sounds more plausible than the left's claim that it wants minimum wage workers to earn a "living wage."

New York Times 15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business Red Statements​

As noted by the New York Post , the New York Times has let it slip that the real goal of the $15 dollar an hour wage is to drive cheap fast food restaurants out of business. And as they said:

“The restaurant industry . . . will not go down without a fight.”

But, I thought that all the businesses affected by the minimum wage were just greedy and could easily afford the wages they should have been paying all along? I guess that wasn’t true. That certainly wasn’t the case for Z Pizza in Seattle. Z Pizza employed 11 employees, who were convinced their lives would be better since they would now be making the astronomical sum of $15 an hour. The owner, Ritu Shah Burnham, tried everything. She laid off workers, cut hours and even quit paying herself a salary, but in the end, she was forced to close her doors. You see, while most businesses her size had six years before paying the $15, she had only two because she owns a franchise. She got nailed on Obamacare for the same reason.

Liberals in their infinite wisdom (cough cough) they decided that a small franchisee should be lumped together with all the the franchisees and company owned restaurants. To me, this is further proof that the goal is to destroy them. I mean, what difference is there between a franchise restaurant owner with 11 employees and any other pizza joint with 11 employees? This is Michelle Obama’s lunches for adults. The same liberals who demand the right to choose to kill innocent babies, is unwilling to give you the right to decide what to eat. ​

Using Seattle as a benchmark against raising the minimum wage is a huge mistake. Seattle's economy is booming with the new minimum wage and despite a couple of restaurants closing, many more are opening. The unemployment rate has dropped a full percentage point and is now around 3.3 percent.

Seattle Restaurant Data Demolishes Conservative Argument Against 15 Minimum Wage ThinkProgress

From your link
What we have been saying all along....


So far, at least one local restaurant has decided to handle the increase by raising wages to $15 an hour immediately – years ahead of when the law would require it – and do away with tips while raising menu prices significantly

no more money out of the consumer's pocket.... they were already paying 15% to 25% more than the menu's list price by paying tips to pay the restaurant employees....

It's worth a TRY for this restaurant...to see how it comes out....

 

[Care4all]

You're deluded about the the cost of labor that goes into selling a Big Mack.

OK, smart guy, what's a Big Mac going to cost after these greedy, overpaid, low life workers get their way?

So you admit you just pulled that number out of your ass.

Minimum wage in California is $9 and hour - Quarter pounder with cheese is $4.85 there

Minimum hourly wage in Australia is $16.87 an hour- Quarter pounder with cheese is $4.95 there.

McDonald s Menu price list 2014 Victoria Australia Flickr - Photo Sharing
McDonalds Prices - Fast Food Menu Prices
california min wage - Google Search
australia minimum wage 2015 - Google Search

Australia has one minimum wage for adults and another for younger workers

For junior employees, the minimum rates are:
Under 16 years of age $5.87
At 16 years of age $7.55
At 17 years of age $9.22
At 18 years of age $10.90
At 19 years of age $13.17
At 20 years of age $15.59.

That is the wage that is required ONLY for first time workers who have never held a job before, once they have gone through training on the job they are given "awards" which makes their mandatory pay significantly HIGHER than what you have listed.

 

[LOki]

Hmmmm

Who knew that ALL of our cushy and affordable lives relied on the backs of the working poor and how LOW and how LITTLE we could pay these 4% of workers at minimum wage... all so that we could keep inflation down for the whole Nation's middle class and the rich.....??

OH WAIT, the South did that for decades if not centuries off of the backs of slaves....!

BRAVO, and HIP HIP HOORAY for the working poor's backs!!!!

This appeal to emotion is retarded.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Considering what we know about the left, this theory sounds more plausible than the left's claim that it wants minimum wage workers to earn a "living wage."

New York Times 15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business Red Statements​

As noted by the New York Post , the New York Times has let it slip that the real goal of the $15 dollar an hour wage is to drive cheap fast food restaurants out of business. And as they said:

“The restaurant industry . . . will not go down without a fight.”

But, I thought that all the businesses affected by the minimum wage were just greedy and could easily afford the wages they should have been paying all along? I guess that wasn’t true. That certainly wasn’t the case for Z Pizza in Seattle. Z Pizza employed 11 employees, who were convinced their lives would be better since they would now be making the astronomical sum of $15 an hour. The owner, Ritu Shah Burnham, tried everything. She laid off workers, cut hours and even quit paying herself a salary, but in the end, she was forced to close her doors. You see, while most businesses her size had six years before paying the $15, she had only two because she owns a franchise. She got nailed on Obamacare for the same reason.

Liberals in their infinite wisdom (cough cough) they decided that a small franchisee should be lumped together with all the the franchisees and company owned restaurants. To me, this is further proof that the goal is to destroy them. I mean, what difference is there between a franchise restaurant owner with 11 employees and any other pizza joint with 11 employees? This is Michelle Obama’s lunches for adults. The same liberals who demand the right to choose to kill innocent babies, is unwilling to give you the right to decide what to eat. ​

Using Seattle as a benchmark against raising the minimum wage is a huge mistake. Seattle's economy is booming with the new minimum wage and despite a couple of restaurants closing, many more are opening. The unemployment rate has dropped a full percentage point and is now around 3.3 percent.

Seattle Restaurant Data Demolishes Conservative Argument Against 15 Minimum Wage ThinkProgress

From your link
What we have been saying all along....


So far, at least one local restaurant has decided to handle the increase by raising wages to $15 an hour immediately – years ahead of when the law would require it – and do away with tips while raising menu prices significantly

no more money out of the consumer's pocket.... they were already paying 15% to 25% more than the menu's list price by paying tips to pay the restaurant employees....

It's worth a TRY for this restaurant...to see how it comes out....

Considering that place was an up scale joint in Seattle, those waitteress got screwed over, they were probably making $200 ~$400 plus a day in tips, working three or 4 days a week a thousand bucks. Now working three days after taxes what $300 bucks?

Also note since my 1st wife was a waitress most all under report their tips to the IRS. Now they Will get it taken by the employeer, but I am sure the old regulars Will still tip them and ones from out of town.