New York Times: $15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business

[HUGGY]

Considering what we know about the left, this theory sounds more plausible than the left's claim that it wants minimum wage workers to earn a "living wage."

New York Times 15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business Red Statements​

As noted by the New York Post , the New York Times has let it slip that the real goal of the $15 dollar an hour wage is to drive cheap fast food restaurants out of business. And as they said:

“The restaurant industry . . . will not go down without a fight.”

But, I thought that all the businesses affected by the minimum wage were just greedy and could easily afford the wages they should have been paying all along? I guess that wasn’t true. That certainly wasn’t the case for Z Pizza in Seattle. Z Pizza employed 11 employees, who were convinced their lives would be better since they would now be making the astronomical sum of $15 an hour. The owner, Ritu Shah Burnham, tried everything. She laid off workers, cut hours and even quit paying herself a salary, but in the end, she was forced to close her doors. You see, while most businesses her size had six years before paying the $15, she had only two because she owns a franchise. She got nailed on Obamacare for the same reason.

Liberals in their infinite wisdom (cough cough) they decided that a small franchisee should be lumped together with all the the franchisees and company owned restaurants. To me, this is further proof that the goal is to destroy them. I mean, what difference is there between a franchise restaurant owner with 11 employees and any other pizza joint with 11 employees? This is Michelle Obama’s lunches for adults. The same liberals who demand the right to choose to kill innocent babies, is unwilling to give you the right to decide what to eat. ​

It's probably a waste of time to answer to one of your miss informed threads but obviously you know little about the operation of a Pizza franchise.

I do. I am in Seattle. There is intense competition here in the Pizza business. Many franchises do quite well even with the $15 per hour wage scale and health care has had little effect also. The biggest problem by far in franchise operation is lack of advertising support and the cost of and ease of access to the franchise ingredients. Also the initial franchise "deal" can be overbearing when there are other pressures and lean times when the public buys fewer discretionary foods. Building leases can be difficult to meet every month as well. I know of several Pizza companies that have gone out of business primarily because of landlord greed.

2 people can run a small Pizza joint at a time with 3-6 drivers depending on the time of day.

Est. 200 pies cost avg $15 is $3000 gross in deliveries between say 5-7 pm You pay $30 to make em, $30 for the person on the phones and max $120 to get em delivered.

That is just a two hour span in the average Pizza business. Clearly the money isn't going into the employee's pockets.

I've been involved in the Seattle Pizza scene for about twenty years. My girlfriend is the manager of a popular Pizza establishment in downtown Seattle.

"Z's" problems that caused it going out of business cannot be blamed on the cost of employees.

 

[francoHFW]

Rationalize it as you like, the real world just demonstrated that your notions about the "real world" are meaningless. Not "ALL other modern countries" have a statutory minimum wage higher than the U.S.

The "modern countries" with no statutory minimum wage seem to be doing OK.

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

Loki, do you truly think you can compare the United States to Denmark, and say, "Hey, they don't have a minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture?

Denmark has the highest tax rates in the world. for every $1000 you earn, you come home with...you net $490 dollar, $510 out of your $1000 goes towards taxes and social / safety net programs.

Do you actually believe we should model ourselves after Denmark or even could model ourselves after Denmark without a second Revolution against taxation?

They have the least amount of purchasing power in all of the E/U.

They're also the happiest country on Earth....I question your stats. Back later.

Yes....they are the happiest people on Earth or one of the happiest groups of people on Earth.

They also pay the highest taxes on Earth and they are FINE WITH IT.....because they have the best pensions, the best educational system for their citizens including college, they have the best health care coverage, the best of any and all social programs for their citizens in the world....

They help their OWN, they are not selfish in any way. It's 100% socialism there....and it works for them.

It's a completely different way of living and thinking that the USA is incapable of being like, we seem to like our doggy dog world and HATE with a passion any kind of taxes going to help other citizens.

what is the India , Pakistan,Mexican, Irish, German, China, Japan , Polish, France, Russian, African, etc.... Population of this utopia ?

1%?

We can't be compared to Denmark when it comes to the fact that their country works without having a minimum wage, which was done in this thread and the other thread going simultaneously.

We don't have a "Fair Market place" when it comes to entry level workers, because illegal immigration is a huge factor in suppressing the work's worth.

Yup, that's the crazy pander to the greedy idoiot rich Reaganist mess we have now. BUT, there's an immigration bill with GOOD ID card for that...give Hillary and the Dems 8 years and we'll be back from the Reaganist disaster...

 

[LOki]

Denmark and other modern countries get a lot more for their tax dollar, free health care, day care, college,great early retirement, -6 week vacations, great infrastructure, no homeless people, very low prison rates- and according to the BBC article here, not much higher tax rates if you include ALL taxes and fees. Same way the nonrich pay taxes as high as the richest in the US if you include ALL taxes and fees.

Which country has the highest tax rate - BBC News

So what?

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

So EVERYTHING.

Well that was predictably informative.

And I don't want brainwashed a-holes deciding wages as we have today...

Then why are you a proponent for statutory minimum wage?

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it as you like, the real world just demonstrated that your notions about the "real world" are meaningless. Not "ALL other modern countries" have a statutory minimum wage higher than the U.S.

The "modern countries" with no statutory minimum wage seem to be doing OK.

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

Loki, do you truly think you can compare the United States to Denmark, and say, "Hey, they don't have a minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture?

Denmark has the highest tax rates in the world. for every $1000 you earn, you come home with...you net $490 dollar, $510 out of your $1000 goes towards taxes and social / safety net programs.

Do you actually believe we should model ourselves after Denmark or even could model ourselves after Denmark without a second Revolution against taxation?

They have the least amount of purchasing power in all of the E/U.

They're also the happiest country on Earth....I question your stats. Back later.

Yes....they are the happiest people on Earth or one of the happiest groups of people on Earth.

They also pay the highest taxes on Earth and they are FINE WITH IT.....because they have the best pensions, the best educational system for their citizens including college, they have the best health care coverage, the best of any and all social programs for their citizens in the world....

They help their OWN, they are not selfish in any way. It's 100% socialism there....and it works for them.

It's a completely different way of living and thinking that the USA is incapable of being like, we seem to like our doggy dog world and HATE with a passion any kind of taxes going to help other citizens.

what is the India , Pakistan,Mexican, Irish, German, China, Japan , Polish, France, Russian, African, etc.... Population of this utopia ?

1%?

We can't be compared to Denmark when it comes to the fact that their country works without having a minimum wage, which was done in this thread and the other thread going simultaneously.

We don't have a "Fair Market place" when it comes to entry level workers, because illegal immigration is a huge factor in suppressing the work's worth.

Nonsense. Illegal immigration is a huge factor in demonstrating the work's actual worth. Those folks come here to work voluntarily, and they accept those wages willingly.

Why else would there be so many Mexicans and Southeast Asians working under the table in the U.S.? Is it because they are gluttons for punishment and have a masochistic penchant for exploitation? Hell no! They're here because some jobs are really worth less than $7.25/hr, and they're willing to take that wage, and that's more than they'd make in the country where they were actually being exploited.

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

 

[Care4all]

They don't need one, because unions are so strong and the bosses aren't shortsighted, brainwashed, a-hole GOPers most of the time. For example, the effective min wage in Denmark is $20...

Rationalize it as you like, the real world just demonstrated that your notions about the "real world" are meaningless. Not "ALL other modern countries" have a statutory minimum wage higher than the U.S.

The "modern countries" with no statutory minimum wage seem to be doing OK.

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

Loki, do you truly think you can compare the United States to Denmark, and say, "Hey, they don't have a minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture?

If francoHFW can say, "Hey, Australia has a high minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture--without you bitching at him--then , YES I CAN!

Denmark has the highest tax rates in the world. for every $1000 you earn, you come home with...you net $490 dollar, $510 out of your $1000 goes towards taxes and social / safety net programs.

So?

Do you actually believe we should model ourselves after Denmark or even could model ourselves after Denmark without a second Revolution against taxation?

No.

They have the least amount of purchasing power in all of the E/U.

So?

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

So tell me why you gave Denmark as an example of how not having a minimum wage works for them, without looking at the whole picture in Denmark and without considering all the factors involved?

Why don't you read what I was responding to to find out... it's right there.

Fuck that. You're an idiot. I need to lower my expectations.

Here you go:

FrancoHFW said: "So why is our min wage at most 2/3 of ALL other modern countries, and less than half of NZ and Australia, hater dupes." (emphasis added to help the dopes)​

Do you think we could be as successful as Denmark is without having a minimum wage, without all the other social programs as safety nets that they have?

Yes.

Do you think Denmark as a Nation can compare to the USA as a Nation and this is why you gave them as an example of why and how the lack of a minimum wage can work for us?

No.

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

Or tell us why you won't tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

My objection is that you fail to give parameter's on what work is worth....and you fail in considering all other factors involved....such as illegal immigrants, bringing down what work is worth for the American citizen at the entry level. And you don't consider what work is worth based on the purchasing power of that paid work.

Should a man work and entire day for someone else, only to be paid enough to buy one half of a loaf of bread when the labor is done...?

your view on labor, on work and its worth, is one sided...not a partnership between the two parties.

You also seem to think that entry level workers have negotiating skills and power...which is far from the truth.

I have no problem paying employees for the work's worth, I have a problem with you thinking this means an employer can arbitrarily think that your work is only worth $1 an hour as you have said many times.... and there is no job on earth in the USA that is only worth $1 an hour....being paid $8 dollars for a full 8 hour day of work.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Loki, do you truly think you can compare the United States to Denmark, and say, "Hey, they don't have a minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture?

Denmark has the highest tax rates in the world. for every $1000 you earn, you come home with...you net $490 dollar, $510 out of your $1000 goes towards taxes and social / safety net programs.

Do you actually believe we should model ourselves after Denmark or even could model ourselves after Denmark without a second Revolution against taxation?

They have the least amount of purchasing power in all of the E/U.

They're also the happiest country on Earth....I question your stats. Back later.

Yes....they are the happiest people on Earth or one of the happiest groups of people on Earth.

They also pay the highest taxes on Earth and they are FINE WITH IT.....because they have the best pensions, the best educational system for their citizens including college, they have the best health care coverage, the best of any and all social programs for their citizens in the world....

They help their OWN, they are not selfish in any way. It's 100% socialism there....and it works for them.

It's a completely different way of living and thinking that the USA is incapable of being like, we seem to like our doggy dog world and HATE with a passion any kind of taxes going to help other citizens.

what is the India , Pakistan,Mexican, Irish, German, China, Japan , Polish, France, Russian, African, etc.... Population of this utopia ?

1%?

We can't be compared to Denmark when it comes to the fact that their country works without having a minimum wage, which was done in this thread and the other thread going simultaneously.

We don't have a "Fair Market place" when it comes to entry level workers, because illegal immigration is a huge factor in suppressing the work's worth.

Yup, that's the crazy pander to the greedy idoiot rich Reaganist mess we have now. BUT, there's an immigration bill with GOOD ID card for that...give Hillary and the Dems 8 years and we'll be back from the Reaganist disaster...

Hopeful thinking since Obama owned the president, Senate and House, dupe and didn't do shit except a cluster Fuck obama care.

 

[francoHFW]

Denmark and other modern countries get a lot more for their tax dollar, free health care, day care, college,great early retirement, -6 week vacations, great infrastructure, no homeless people, very low prison rates- and according to the BBC article here, not much higher tax rates if you include ALL taxes and fees. Same way the nonrich pay taxes as high as the richest in the US if you include ALL taxes and fees.

Which country has the highest tax rate - BBC News

So what?

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

So EVERYTHING.

Well that was predictably informative.

And I don't want brainwashed a-holes deciding wages as we have today...

Then why are you a proponent for statutory minimum wage?

A) Certainly was.
B) A DEM min wage because Pubs have wrecked OUR unions, etc.. I'm for NOTHING Republican.

 

[rdean]

We are already subsidizing fast food to the tune of 7 billion a year with giving the workers food stamps and emergency room health care. Why not make the companies pay instead of the tax payer? Keep government out. Pay the workers so they don't need food stamps and other subsidies.

 

[francoHFW]

Loki, do you truly think you can compare the United States to Denmark, and say, "Hey, they don't have a minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture?

Denmark has the highest tax rates in the world. for every $1000 you earn, you come home with...you net $490 dollar, $510 out of your $1000 goes towards taxes and social / safety net programs.

Do you actually believe we should model ourselves after Denmark or even could model ourselves after Denmark without a second Revolution against taxation?

They have the least amount of purchasing power in all of the E/U.

They're also the happiest country on Earth....I question your stats. Back later.

Yes....they are the happiest people on Earth or one of the happiest groups of people on Earth.

They also pay the highest taxes on Earth and they are FINE WITH IT.....because they have the best pensions, the best educational system for their citizens including college, they have the best health care coverage, the best of any and all social programs for their citizens in the world....

They help their OWN, they are not selfish in any way. It's 100% socialism there....and it works for them.

It's a completely different way of living and thinking that the USA is incapable of being like, we seem to like our doggy dog world and HATE with a passion any kind of taxes going to help other citizens.

what is the India , Pakistan,Mexican, Irish, German, China, Japan , Polish, France, Russian, African, etc.... Population of this utopia ?

1%?

We can't be compared to Denmark when it comes to the fact that their country works without having a minimum wage, which was done in this thread and the other thread going simultaneously.

We don't have a "Fair Market place" when it comes to entry level workers, because illegal immigration is a huge factor in suppressing the work's worth.

Nonsense. Illegal immigration is a huge factor in demonstrating the work's actual worth. Those folks come here to work voluntarily, and they accept those wages willingly.

Why else would there be so many Mexicans and Southeast Asians working under the table in the U.S.? Is it because they are gluttons for punishment and have a masochistic penchant for exploitation? Hell no! They're here because some jobs are really worth less than $7.25/hr, and they're willing to take that wage, and that's more than they'd make in the country where they were actually being exploited.

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

Yup, GOPers LOVE cheap, easily bullied labor. Thanks for being an HONEST greedy Pub dupe. LOL

 

[LOki]

Rationalize it as you like, the real world just demonstrated that your notions about the "real world" are meaningless. Not "ALL other modern countries" have a statutory minimum wage higher than the U.S.

The "modern countries" with no statutory minimum wage seem to be doing OK.

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

Loki, do you truly think you can compare the United States to Denmark, and say, "Hey, they don't have a minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture?

If francoHFW can say, "Hey, Australia has a high minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture--without you bitching at him--then , YES I CAN!

Denmark has the highest tax rates in the world. for every $1000 you earn, you come home with...you net $490 dollar, $510 out of your $1000 goes towards taxes and social / safety net programs.

So?

Do you actually believe we should model ourselves after Denmark or even could model ourselves after Denmark without a second Revolution against taxation?

No.

They have the least amount of purchasing power in all of the E/U.

So?

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

So tell me why you gave Denmark as an example of how not having a minimum wage works for them, without looking at the whole picture in Denmark and without considering all the factors involved?

Why don't you read what I was responding to to find out... it's right there.

Fuck that. You're an idiot. I need to lower my expectations.

Here you go:

FrancoHFW said: "So why is our min wage at most 2/3 of ALL other modern countries, and less than half of NZ and Australia, hater dupes." (emphasis added to help the dopes)​

Do you think we could be as successful as Denmark is without having a minimum wage, without all the other social programs as safety nets that they have?

Yes.

Do you think Denmark as a Nation can compare to the USA as a Nation and this is why you gave them as an example of why and how the lack of a minimum wage can work for us?

No.

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

Or tell us why you won't tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

My objection is that you fail to give parameter's on what work is worth....and you fail in considering all other factors involved....such as illegal immigrants, bringing down what work is worth for the American citizen at the entry level. And you don't consider what work is worth based on the purchasing power of that paid work.

It told you explicitly... I DO NOT CLAIM TO HAVE ANY AUTHORITY TO DECIDE WHAT WORK IS WORTH FOR OTHER PEOPLE!

Are you clear on that fact, Pumpkin? Will I have to tell you again?

You, on the other hand, claim that authority every single time you say for someone else that they cannot be paid less than the statutory minimum for the work they do.

I'd like to know exactly how you came by that authority. I've asked you before, but you never answer.

Why is that, Cupcake?

Should a man work and entire day for someone else, only to be paid enough to buy one half of a loaf of bread when the labor is done...?

If that's what he thinks his work is worth, I have no business disagreeing with him.

Why do you claim that it is your business? Upon what authority do you decide for that worker what his work is worth?

Share with us all, please.

your view on labor, on work and its worth, is one sided...not a partnership between the two parties.

This is a baseless, and ENTIRELY bullshit presumption. And you know it.

You also seem to think that entry level workers have negotiating skills and power...which is far from the truth.

No. It's not. There is a very good reason that entry level workers don't have the SAME negotiating skills and power as skilled and experienced workers.

If you give it a moment's thought, you should be able to figure it out.

Fuck that. You're an idiot. I need to lower my expectations.

Here you go: Entry level workers, being inexperienced and generally unskilled, most often have less to offer in the way of valuable work to merit a higher pay scale. As their skills improve, they also gain opportunities to negotiate better wages. Through the learning process of trial and error, they gain experience--thus greater power, to negotiate better wages.

That's just how it works, Cupcake. Ponies aren't just given away... most everybody has to earn their pony.

I have no problem paying employees for the work's worth,...

This is an obvious lie.

You're PERFECTLY WILLING to underpay some workers in order to over-pay other workers whose work is worth less than the statutory minimum.

Admit it, Pumpkin. You've been banging that exact drum this whole time.

... I have a problem with you thinking this means an employer can arbitrarily think that your work is only worth $1 an hour as you have said many times...

As far as I'm concerned, an employer can establish the worth of the work offered as low--or as retardedly high--as he wishes. That's none of my business. But you CLEARLY believe that it is yours.

Why do you claim that it is your business? Upon what authority do you decide for that employer what his work is worth?

..and there is no job on earth in the USA that is only worth $1 an hour...being paid $8 dollars for a full 8 hour day of work.

Really? Upon what authority do you decide for EVERYBODY what work is worth?

 

[francoHFW]

Loki, do you truly think you can compare the United States to Denmark, and say, "Hey, they don't have a minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture?

If francoHFW can say, "Hey, Australia has a high minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture--without you bitching at him--then , YES I CAN!

Denmark has the highest tax rates in the world. for every $1000 you earn, you come home with...you net $490 dollar, $510 out of your $1000 goes towards taxes and social / safety net programs.

So?

Do you actually believe we should model ourselves after Denmark or even could model ourselves after Denmark without a second Revolution against taxation?

No.

They have the least amount of purchasing power in all of the E/U.

So?

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

So tell me why you gave Denmark as an example of how not having a minimum wage works for them, without looking at the whole picture in Denmark and without considering all the factors involved?

Why don't you read what I was responding to to find out... it's right there.

Fuck that. You're an idiot. I need to lower my expectations.

Here you go:

FrancoHFW said: "So why is our min wage at most 2/3 of ALL other modern countries, and less than half of NZ and Australia, hater dupes." (emphasis added to help the dopes)​

Do you think we could be as successful as Denmark is without having a minimum wage, without all the other social programs as safety nets that they have?

Yes.

Do you think Denmark as a Nation can compare to the USA as a Nation and this is why you gave them as an example of why and how the lack of a minimum wage can work for us?

No.

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

Or tell us why you won't tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

My objection is that you fail to give parameter's on what work is worth....and you fail in considering all other factors involved....such as illegal immigrants, bringing down what work is worth for the American citizen at the entry level. And you don't consider what work is worth based on the purchasing power of that paid work.

It told you explicitly... I DO NOT CLAIM TO HAVE ANY AUTHORITY TO DECIDE WHAT WORK IS WORTH FOR OTHER PEOPLE!

Are you clear on that fact, Pumpkin? Will I have to tell you again?

You, on the other hand, claim that authority every single time you say for someone else that they cannot be paid less than the statutory minimum for the work they do.

I'd like to know exactly how you came by that authority. I've asked you before, but you never answer.

Why is that, Cupcake?

Should a man work and entire day for someone else, only to be paid enough to buy one half of a loaf of bread when the labor is done...?

If that's what he thinks his work is worth, I have no business disagreeing with him.

Why do you claim that it is your business? Upon what authority do you decide for that worker what his work is worth?

Share with us all, please.

your view on labor, on work and its worth, is one sided...not a partnership between the two parties.

This is a baseless, and ENTIRELY bullshit presumption. And you know it.

You also seem to think that entry level workers have negotiating skills and power...which is far from the truth.

No. It's not. There is a very good reason that entry level workers don't have the SAME negotiating skills and power as skilled and experienced workers.

If you give it a moment's thought, you should be able to figure it out.

Fuck that. You're an idiot. I need to lower my expectations.

Here you go: Entry level workers, being inexperienced and generally unskilled, most often have less to offer in the way of valuable work to merit a higher pay scale. As their skills improve, they also gain opportunities to negotiate better wages. Through the learning process of trial and error, they gain experience--thus greater power, to negotiate better wages.

That's just how it works, Cupcake. Ponies aren't just given away... most everybody has to earn their pony.

I have no problem paying employees for the work's worth,...

This is an obvious lie.

You're PERFECTLY WILLING to underpay some workers in order to over-pay other workers whose work is worth less than the statutory minimum.

Admit it, Pumpkin. You've been banging that exact drum this whole time.

... I have a problem with you thinking this means an employer can arbitrarily think that your work is only worth $1 an hour as you have said many times...

As far as I'm concerned, an employer can establish the worth of the work offered as low--or a retardedly high--as he wishes. That's none of my business. But you CLEARLY believe that it is yours.

Why do you claim that it is your business? Upon what authority do yoiu decide for that employer what his work is worth?

..and there is no job on earth in the USA that is only worth $1 an hour...being paid $8 dollars for a full 8 hour day of work.

Really? Upon what authority do you decide for EVERYBODY what work is worth?

US constitution. Thank god for that.

 

[LOki]

Denmark and other modern countries get a lot more for their tax dollar, free health care, day care, college,great early retirement, -6 week vacations, great infrastructure, no homeless people, very low prison rates- and according to the BBC article here, not much higher tax rates if you include ALL taxes and fees. Same way the nonrich pay taxes as high as the richest in the US if you include ALL taxes and fees.

Which country has the highest tax rate - BBC News

So what?

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

So EVERYTHING.

Well that was predictably informative.

And I don't want brainwashed a-holes deciding wages as we have today...

Then why are you a proponent for statutory minimum wage?

A) Certainly was.
B) A DEM min wage because Pubs have wrecked OUR unions, etc.. I'm for NOTHING Republican.

Ah. A groupie. A fanatic. A demagogue. Cut from authoritarian statist cloth.

Well then Pumpkin, let's see if you've the courage to answer this: Upon what authority do you decide for EVERYBODY what work is worth?

 

[LOki]

They're also the happiest country on Earth....I question your stats. Back later.

Yes....they are the happiest people on Earth or one of the happiest groups of people on Earth.

They also pay the highest taxes on Earth and they are FINE WITH IT.....because they have the best pensions, the best educational system for their citizens including college, they have the best health care coverage, the best of any and all social programs for their citizens in the world....

They help their OWN, they are not selfish in any way. It's 100% socialism there....and it works for them.

It's a completely different way of living and thinking that the USA is incapable of being like, we seem to like our doggy dog world and HATE with a passion any kind of taxes going to help other citizens.

what is the India , Pakistan,Mexican, Irish, German, China, Japan , Polish, France, Russian, African, etc.... Population of this utopia ?

1%?

We can't be compared to Denmark when it comes to the fact that their country works without having a minimum wage, which was done in this thread and the other thread going simultaneously.

We don't have a "Fair Market place" when it comes to entry level workers, because illegal immigration is a huge factor in suppressing the work's worth.

Nonsense. Illegal immigration is a huge factor in demonstrating the work's actual worth. Those folks come here to work voluntarily, and they accept those wages willingly.

Why else would there be so many Mexicans and Southeast Asians working under the table in the U.S.? Is it because they are gluttons for punishment and have a masochistic penchant for exploitation? Hell no! They're here because some jobs are really worth less than $7.25/hr, and they're willing to take that wage, and that's more than they'd make in the country where they were actually being exploited.

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

Yup, GOPers LOVE cheap, easily bullied labor.

So do DEMs. You're all slave-master hopefuls.

Thanks for being an HONEST greedy Pub dupe. LOL

I'm certain I can't take credit for whatever a "Pub dupe" is, but I'll accept your thanks for being honest. You're welcome.

 

[LOki]

If francoHFW can say, "Hey, Australia has a high minimum wage and it works for them'', without looking at the whole picture--without you bitching at him--then , YES I CAN!

So?

No.

So?

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

So tell me why you gave Denmark as an example of how not having a minimum wage works for them, without looking at the whole picture in Denmark and without considering all the factors involved?

Why don't you read what I was responding to to find out... it's right there.

Fuck that. You're an idiot. I need to lower my expectations.

Here you go:

FrancoHFW said: "So why is our min wage at most 2/3 of ALL other modern countries, and less than half of NZ and Australia, hater dupes." (emphasis added to help the dopes)​

Do you think we could be as successful as Denmark is without having a minimum wage, without all the other social programs as safety nets that they have?

Yes.

Do you think Denmark as a Nation can compare to the USA as a Nation and this is why you gave them as an example of why and how the lack of a minimum wage can work for us?

No.

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

Or tell us why you won't tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

My objection is that you fail to give parameter's on what work is worth....and you fail in considering all other factors involved....such as illegal immigrants, bringing down what work is worth for the American citizen at the entry level. And you don't consider what work is worth based on the purchasing power of that paid work.

It told you explicitly... I DO NOT CLAIM TO HAVE ANY AUTHORITY TO DECIDE WHAT WORK IS WORTH FOR OTHER PEOPLE!

Are you clear on that fact, Pumpkin? Will I have to tell you again?

You, on the other hand, claim that authority every single time you say for someone else that they cannot be paid less than the statutory minimum for the work they do.

I'd like to know exactly how you came by that authority. I've asked you before, but you never answer.

Why is that, Cupcake?

Should a man work and entire day for someone else, only to be paid enough to buy one half of a loaf of bread when the labor is done...?

If that's what he thinks his work is worth, I have no business disagreeing with him.

Why do you claim that it is your business? Upon what authority do you decide for that worker what his work is worth?

Share with us all, please.

your view on labor, on work and its worth, is one sided...not a partnership between the two parties.

This is a baseless, and ENTIRELY bullshit presumption. And you know it.

You also seem to think that entry level workers have negotiating skills and power...which is far from the truth.

No. It's not. There is a very good reason that entry level workers don't have the SAME negotiating skills and power as skilled and experienced workers.

If you give it a moment's thought, you should be able to figure it out.

Fuck that. You're an idiot. I need to lower my expectations.

Here you go: Entry level workers, being inexperienced and generally unskilled, most often have less to offer in the way of valuable work to merit a higher pay scale. As their skills improve, they also gain opportunities to negotiate better wages. Through the learning process of trial and error, they gain experience--thus greater power, to negotiate better wages.

That's just how it works, Cupcake. Ponies aren't just given away... most everybody has to earn their pony.

I have no problem paying employees for the work's worth,...

This is an obvious lie.

You're PERFECTLY WILLING to underpay some workers in order to over-pay other workers whose work is worth less than the statutory minimum.

Admit it, Pumpkin. You've been banging that exact drum this whole time.

... I have a problem with you thinking this means an employer can arbitrarily think that your work is only worth $1 an hour as you have said many times...

As far as I'm concerned, an employer can establish the worth of the work offered as low--or a retardedly high--as he wishes. That's none of my business. But you CLEARLY believe that it is yours.

Why do you claim that it is your business? Upon what authority do yoiu decide for that employer what his work is worth?

..and there is no job on earth in the USA that is only worth $1 an hour...being paid $8 dollars for a full 8 hour day of work.

Really? Upon what authority do you decide for EVERYBODY what work is worth?

US constitution. Thank god for that.

Nonsense. And nonsense to your superstition too.

 

[hangover]

New York Times: $15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business

Won't happen, too many morons will pay $15.00 for a Big Mac.

 

[francoHFW]

Yes....they are the happiest people on Earth or one of the happiest groups of people on Earth.

They also pay the highest taxes on Earth and they are FINE WITH IT.....because they have the best pensions, the best educational system for their citizens including college, they have the best health care coverage, the best of any and all social programs for their citizens in the world....

They help their OWN, they are not selfish in any way. It's 100% socialism there....and it works for them.

It's a completely different way of living and thinking that the USA is incapable of being like, we seem to like our doggy dog world and HATE with a passion any kind of taxes going to help other citizens.

what is the India , Pakistan,Mexican, Irish, German, China, Japan , Polish, France, Russian, African, etc.... Population of this utopia ?

1%?

We can't be compared to Denmark when it comes to the fact that their country works without having a minimum wage, which was done in this thread and the other thread going simultaneously.

We don't have a "Fair Market place" when it comes to entry level workers, because illegal immigration is a huge factor in suppressing the work's worth.

Nonsense. Illegal immigration is a huge factor in demonstrating the work's actual worth. Those folks come here to work voluntarily, and they accept those wages willingly.

Why else would there be so many Mexicans and Southeast Asians working under the table in the U.S.? Is it because they are gluttons for punishment and have a masochistic penchant for exploitation? Hell no! They're here because some jobs are really worth less than $7.25/hr, and they're willing to take that wage, and that's more than they'd make in the country where they were actually being exploited.

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

Yup, GOPers LOVE cheap, easily bullied labor.

So do DEMs. You're all slave-master hopefuls.

Thanks for being an HONEST greedy Pub dupe. LOL

I'm certain I can't take credit for whatever a "Pub dupe" is, but I'll accept your thanks for being honest. You're welcome.

It's a person who believes bs Pub propaganda/hate like you.

 

[francoHFW]

So tell me why you gave Denmark as an example of how not having a minimum wage works for them, without looking at the whole picture in Denmark and without considering all the factors involved?

Why don't you read what I was responding to to find out... it's right there.

Fuck that. You're an idiot. I need to lower my expectations.

Here you go:

FrancoHFW said: "So why is our min wage at most 2/3 of ALL other modern countries, and less than half of NZ and Australia, hater dupes." (emphasis added to help the dopes)​

Do you think we could be as successful as Denmark is without having a minimum wage, without all the other social programs as safety nets that they have?

Yes.

Do you think Denmark as a Nation can compare to the USA as a Nation and this is why you gave them as an example of why and how the lack of a minimum wage can work for us?

No.

Tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

Or tell us why you won't tell us your objection to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

My objection is that you fail to give parameter's on what work is worth....and you fail in considering all other factors involved....such as illegal immigrants, bringing down what work is worth for the American citizen at the entry level. And you don't consider what work is worth based on the purchasing power of that paid work.

It told you explicitly... I DO NOT CLAIM TO HAVE ANY AUTHORITY TO DECIDE WHAT WORK IS WORTH FOR OTHER PEOPLE!

Are you clear on that fact, Pumpkin? Will I have to tell you again?

You, on the other hand, claim that authority every single time you say for someone else that they cannot be paid less than the statutory minimum for the work they do.

I'd like to know exactly how you came by that authority. I've asked you before, but you never answer.

Why is that, Cupcake?

Should a man work and entire day for someone else, only to be paid enough to buy one half of a loaf of bread when the labor is done...?

If that's what he thinks his work is worth, I have no business disagreeing with him.

Why do you claim that it is your business? Upon what authority do you decide for that worker what his work is worth?

Share with us all, please.

your view on labor, on work and its worth, is one sided...not a partnership between the two parties.

This is a baseless, and ENTIRELY bullshit presumption. And you know it.

You also seem to think that entry level workers have negotiating skills and power...which is far from the truth.

No. It's not. There is a very good reason that entry level workers don't have the SAME negotiating skills and power as skilled and experienced workers.

If you give it a moment's thought, you should be able to figure it out.

Fuck that. You're an idiot. I need to lower my expectations.

Here you go: Entry level workers, being inexperienced and generally unskilled, most often have less to offer in the way of valuable work to merit a higher pay scale. As their skills improve, they also gain opportunities to negotiate better wages. Through the learning process of trial and error, they gain experience--thus greater power, to negotiate better wages.

That's just how it works, Cupcake. Ponies aren't just given away... most everybody has to earn their pony.

I have no problem paying employees for the work's worth,...

This is an obvious lie.

You're PERFECTLY WILLING to underpay some workers in order to over-pay other workers whose work is worth less than the statutory minimum.

Admit it, Pumpkin. You've been banging that exact drum this whole time.

... I have a problem with you thinking this means an employer can arbitrarily think that your work is only worth $1 an hour as you have said many times...

As far as I'm concerned, an employer can establish the worth of the work offered as low--or a retardedly high--as he wishes. That's none of my business. But you CLEARLY believe that it is yours.

Why do you claim that it is your business? Upon what authority do yoiu decide for that employer what his work is worth?

..and there is no job on earth in the USA that is only worth $1 an hour...being paid $8 dollars for a full 8 hour day of work.

Really? Upon what authority do you decide for EVERYBODY what work is worth?

US constitution. Thank god for that.

Nonsense. And nonsense to your superstition too.

The SC is with me. I'll go with God, thanks. see Pascal, "The Bet". You appear to be treasonous as well as a dupe, AND faithless. Bad ideas.

 

[francoHFW]

New York Times: $15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business

Won't happen, too many morons will pay $15.00 for a Big Mac.

The $15 is the WAGE. The price will go up about 10%. Fact. Ay caramba, Pub dupes...

 

[LOki]

Considering what we know about the left, this theory sounds more plausible than the left's claim that it wants minimum wage workers to earn a "living wage."

New York Times 15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business Red Statements​

As noted by the New York Post , the New York Times has let it slip that the real goal of the $15 dollar an hour wage is to drive cheap fast food restaurants out of business. And as they said:

“The restaurant industry . . . will not go down without a fight.”

But, I thought that all the businesses affected by the minimum wage were just greedy and could easily afford the wages they should have been paying all along? I guess that wasn’t true. That certainly wasn’t the case for Z Pizza in Seattle. Z Pizza employed 11 employees, who were convinced their lives would be better since they would now be making the astronomical sum of $15 an hour. The owner, Ritu Shah Burnham, tried everything. She laid off workers, cut hours and even quit paying herself a salary, but in the end, she was forced to close her doors. You see, while most businesses her size had six years before paying the $15, she had only two because she owns a franchise. She got nailed on Obamacare for the same reason.

Liberals in their infinite wisdom (cough cough) they decided that a small franchisee should be lumped together with all the the franchisees and company owned restaurants. To me, this is further proof that the goal is to destroy them. I mean, what difference is there between a franchise restaurant owner with 11 employees and any other pizza joint with 11 employees? This is Michelle Obama’s lunches for adults. The same liberals who demand the right to choose to kill innocent babies, is unwilling to give you the right to decide what to eat. ​

It's probably a waste of time to answer to one of your miss informed threads but obviously you know little about the operation of a Pizza franchise.

I do. I am in Seattle. There is intense competition here in the Pizza business. Many franchises do quite well even with the $15 per hour wage scale and health care has had little effect also. The biggest problem by far in franchise operation is lack of advertising support and the cost of and ease of access to the franchise ingredients. Also the initial franchise "deal" can be overbearing when there are other pressures and lean times when the public buys fewer discretionary foods. Building leases can be difficult to meet every month as well. I know of several Pizza companies that have gone out of business primarily because of landlord greed.

2 people can run a small Pizza joint at a time with 3-6 drivers depending on the time of day.

Est. 200 pies cost avg $15 is $3000 gross in deliveries between say 5-7 pm You pay $30 to make em, $30 for the person on the phones and max $120 to get em delivered.

That is just a two hour span in the average Pizza business. Clearly the money isn't going into the employee's pockets.

I've been involved in the Seattle Pizza scene for about twenty years. My girlfriend is the manager of a popular Pizza establishment in downtown Seattle.

"Z's" problems that caused it going out of business cannot be blamed on the cost of employees.

I doubt the cost of a $15 pizza is only $0.90. You don't own a pizza joint, right?

 

[LOki]

what is the India , Pakistan,Mexican, Irish, German, China, Japan , Polish, France, Russian, African, etc.... Population of this utopia ?

1%?

We can't be compared to Denmark when it comes to the fact that their country works without having a minimum wage, which was done in this thread and the other thread going simultaneously.

We don't have a "Fair Market place" when it comes to entry level workers, because illegal immigration is a huge factor in suppressing the work's worth.

Nonsense. Illegal immigration is a huge factor in demonstrating the work's actual worth. Those folks come here to work voluntarily, and they accept those wages willingly.

Why else would there be so many Mexicans and Southeast Asians working under the table in the U.S.? Is it because they are gluttons for punishment and have a masochistic penchant for exploitation? Hell no! They're here because some jobs are really worth less than $7.25/hr, and they're willing to take that wage, and that's more than they'd make in the country where they were actually being exploited.

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

Yup, GOPers LOVE cheap, easily bullied labor.

So do DEMs. You're all slave-master hopefuls.

Thanks for being an HONEST greedy Pub dupe. LOL

I'm certain I can't take credit for whatever a "Pub dupe" is, but I'll accept your thanks for being honest. You're welcome.

It's a person who believes bs Pub propaganda/hate like you.

Whatever are you talking about? Demonstrate with valid logic applied to verifiable facts of reality. I don't go in for anyone's superstition, Cupcake.