New Witness...TRAYVON was beating Zimmerman up!

Zimmerman is older and stronger and had a weight advantage and a gun...
At some point if he was really getting the crap beat out of him just showing the gun
would have stopped the kid...

I still don't see the reason why he had to shoot the kid...

Mr Zimmerman was older and heavier. That doesn't mean he was stronger.
I've been in fights with people older and heavier than me when I was a young man and won the fight.
Your speculation and opinionated conclusion is exactly that, speculation and opinion.

The bottom line is if Zimmerman hadn't ignored orders NOT to follow the kid,non of this would have happened,Zimmerman caused all of this. He is saying he feared for his life and he was the one with the gun?? The kid should have killed him,he was more than likely fearing for himself way more than Zimmerman.

This is a good example of authoritarian assholes with a gun,local cops included.

Your point has absolutely nothing to do with my accurate rebuttal of the wild speculation/opinion Rozman made.
 
The video clip was from the very next day.

It is (yes, of course) possible that the witness, John, was making shit up even as early as the next day. But is that a realistic scenario?

An eyewitness who himself CALLED 9-1-1 saw the shooter on the ground crying for help; and later, after coming down, he discovered the OTHER guy was no the one now laying -- apparently already dead -- on the ground. UNLESS that witness was lying, what he saw and evidently told the responding cops sure explains why the shooter wasn't arrested.

And even if the witness was lying, how the fuck would the cops who WEREN'T there at the time of the shooting know (immediately) that the witness was (supposedly) not telling the truth?

Given what they DID know, I am curious how they could have justified making an arrest.

I don't believe he was lying. I believe Zimmerman picked a fight with the wrong kid and the kid probably beat the crap out of him.
 
If Zimmerman was attacked, it does change the dynamics a bit. It wouldn't exonerate him completely, but it would help to better understand what happened. His apparent 'Fucking Coons' racial slur will be a big problem for him in court. The Jury will not treat him kindly. Without the apparent racial slur, he would have likely gotten off on Self-Defense. So he'll probably still do some time.
 
The video clip was from the very next day.

It is (yes, of course) possible that the witness, John, was making shit up even as early as the next day. But is that a realistic scenario?

An eyewitness who himself CALLED 9-1-1 saw the shooter on the ground crying for help; and later, after coming down, he discovered the OTHER guy was no the one now laying -- apparently already dead -- on the ground. UNLESS that witness was lying, what he saw and evidently told the responding cops sure explains why the shooter wasn't arrested.

And even if the witness was lying, how the fuck would the cops who WEREN'T there at the time of the shooting know (immediately) that the witness was (supposedly) not telling the truth?

Given what they DID know, I am curious how they could have justified making an arrest.

I don't believe he was lying. I believe Zimmerman picked a fight with the wrong kid and the kid probably beat the crap out of him.

I have no basis to say that the witness, "John," was lying. And if he was just fairly and more or less accurately reporting what he personally observed, I can certainly understand why there was no arrest.
 
The video clip was from the very next day.

It is (yes, of course) possible that the witness, John, was making shit up even as early as the next day. But is that a realistic scenario?

An eyewitness who himself CALLED 9-1-1 saw the shooter on the ground crying for help; and later, after coming down, he discovered the OTHER guy was no the one now laying -- apparently already dead -- on the ground. UNLESS that witness was lying, what he saw and evidently told the responding cops sure explains why the shooter wasn't arrested.

And even if the witness was lying, how the fuck would the cops who WEREN'T there at the time of the shooting know (immediately) that the witness was (supposedly) not telling the truth?

Given what they DID know, I am curious how they could have justified making an arrest.

There was a dead kid on the ground. Given the 911 calls in which Zimmerman pursued Martin after he was told not to, at the very least, he aggravated the situation such that he was attacked. And thats if you believe Zimmerman's story.

Believe or not..Murphy have the very same right to defend himself from a hulking pursuer who was not law enforcement and very likely to do him harm.
 
If Zimmerman was attacked, it does change the dynamics a bit. It wouldn't exonerate him completely, but it would help to better understand what happened. His apparent 'Fucking Coons' racial slur will be a big problem for him in court. The Jury will not treat him kindly. Without the apparent racial slur, he would have likely gotten off on Self-Defense. So he'll probably still do some time.

Not it won't. If the "coon" comment actually happened it only proves Zimmerman doesn't like black people not that he killed the kid.

You can't go to jail for being a racist idiot. For good reason, we live in a free country.


...on another note how stupid do you have to be to saying something like "f***ing coon" on the phone with a 9-11 dispatcher?
 
And it has been racially commented on by our President for political purposes before it has its due reflection in the American process.

Obama wants to earn ****** cred. It's the juice of his success in a country were being white is a political liability.
 
The video clip was from the very next day.

It is (yes, of course) possible that the witness, John, was making shit up even as early as the next day. But is that a realistic scenario?

An eyewitness who himself CALLED 9-1-1 saw the shooter on the ground crying for help; and later, after coming down, he discovered the OTHER guy was no the one now laying -- apparently already dead -- on the ground. UNLESS that witness was lying, what he saw and evidently told the responding cops sure explains why the shooter wasn't arrested.

And even if the witness was lying, how the fuck would the cops who WEREN'T there at the time of the shooting know (immediately) that the witness was (supposedly) not telling the truth?

Given what they DID know, I am curious how they could have justified making an arrest.

I don't believe he was lying. I believe Zimmerman picked a fight with the wrong kid and the kid probably beat the crap out of him.

I have no basis to say that the witness, "John," was lying. And if he was just fairly and more or less accurately reporting what he personally observed, I can certainly understand why there was no arrest.

I still cannot. Dead unarmed 17-year-old screams "take him in" too me. When in doubt...
 
"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John. John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot. "And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation
 
The video clip was from the very next day.

It is (yes, of course) possible that the witness, John, was making shit up even as early as the next day. But is that a realistic scenario?

An eyewitness who himself CALLED 9-1-1 saw the shooter on the ground crying for help; and later, after coming down, he discovered the OTHER guy was no the one now laying -- apparently already dead -- on the ground. UNLESS that witness was lying, what he saw and evidently told the responding cops sure explains why the shooter wasn't arrested.

And even if the witness was lying, how the fuck would the cops who WEREN'T there at the time of the shooting know (immediately) that the witness was (supposedly) not telling the truth?

Given what they DID know, I am curious how they could have justified making an arrest.

I don't believe he was lying. I believe Zimmerman picked a fight with the wrong kid and the kid probably beat the crap out of him.

Accoring to Zimmerman, he had lost track of Martin and was walking back to his car when Martin attacked him from behind. That would explain the bloody contusion to the back of Zimmerman's head. Still self-defense. Just as you cannot shoot someone in the back, you cannot claim self-defense if you hit someone on the back of the head.
 
And it has been racially commented on by our President for political purposes before it has its due reflection in the American process.

Obama wants to earn ****** cred. It's the juice of his success in a country were being white is a political liability.

Nigga cred stupid... nigga cred.

You earn "******" cred when you sleep with massa and have a caramel colored baby.:lol:
 
If Zimmerman was attacked, it does change the dynamics a bit. It wouldn't exonerate him completely, but it would help to better understand what happened. His apparent 'Fucking Coons' racial slur will be a big problem for him in court. The Jury will not treat him kindly. Without the apparent racial slur, he would have likely gotten off on Self-Defense. So he'll probably still do some time.

I'm betting it won't get to a jury.
 
If Zimmerman was attacked, it does change the dynamics a bit. It wouldn't exonerate him completely, but it would help to better understand what happened. His apparent 'Fucking Coons' racial slur will be a big problem for him in court. The Jury will not treat him kindly. Without the apparent racial slur, he would have likely gotten off on Self-Defense. So he'll probably still do some time.

Not it won't. If the "coon" comment actually happened it only proves Zimmerman doesn't like black people not that he killed the kid.

You can't go to jail for being a racist idiot. For good reason, we live in a free country.


...on another note how stupid do you have to be to saying something like "f***ing coon" on the phone with a 9-11 dispatcher?

I've heard the tape, it really isn't clear that that is what he said.
 
The video clip was from the very next day.

It is (yes, of course) possible that the witness, John, was making shit up even as early as the next day. But is that a realistic scenario?

An eyewitness who himself CALLED 9-1-1 saw the shooter on the ground crying for help; and later, after coming down, he discovered the OTHER guy was no the one now laying -- apparently already dead -- on the ground. UNLESS that witness was lying, what he saw and evidently told the responding cops sure explains why the shooter wasn't arrested.

And even if the witness was lying, how the fuck would the cops who WEREN'T there at the time of the shooting know (immediately) that the witness was (supposedly) not telling the truth?

Given what they DID know, I am curious how they could have justified making an arrest.

There was a dead kid on the ground. Given the 911 calls in which Zimmerman pursued Martin after he was told not to, at the very least, he aggravated the situation such that he was attacked. And thats if you believe Zimmerman's story.

Believe or not..Murphy have the very same right to defend himself from a hulking pursuer who was not law enforcement and very likely to do him harm.

A dead kid on the ground is evidence of a killing, not a murder. And the suspect was NOT (ever) TOLD not to pursue. He was told tat he was not needed to do that. If he was attacked at all (like the witness seems to suggest) there is no particular justification for it much less "aggravation."

Murphy?

If you mean young Mr. Martin had the same right to defend himself, you're right. Everyone has that right under the proper circumstances. But that's not the question. He's dead. He's not contemplating any need to offer a defense of justification.
 
The video clip was from the very next day.

It is (yes, of course) possible that the witness, John, was making shit up even as early as the next day. But is that a realistic scenario?

An eyewitness who himself CALLED 9-1-1 saw the shooter on the ground crying for help; and later, after coming down, he discovered the OTHER guy was no the one now laying -- apparently already dead -- on the ground. UNLESS that witness was lying, what he saw and evidently told the responding cops sure explains why the shooter wasn't arrested.

And even if the witness was lying, how the fuck would the cops who WEREN'T there at the time of the shooting know (immediately) that the witness was (supposedly) not telling the truth?

Given what they DID know, I am curious how they could have justified making an arrest.

I don't believe he was lying. I believe Zimmerman picked a fight with the wrong kid and the kid probably beat the crap out of him.

Accoring to Zimmerman, he had lost track of Martin and was walking back to his car when Martin attacked him from behind. That would explain the bloody contusion to the back of Zimmerman's head. Still self-defense. Just as you cannot shoot someone in the back, you cannot claim self-defense if you hit someone on the back of the head.

Or Zimmerman confronted the kid and in Zimmerman's fatter weaker state, as attested to by several posters here, the kid pushed Zimmerman off and Zimmerman fell backwards and hit his head on the ground.
 
If Zimmerman was attacked, it does change the dynamics a bit. It wouldn't exonerate him completely, but it would help to better understand what happened. His apparent 'Fucking Coons' racial slur will be a big problem for him in court. The Jury will not treat him kindly. Without the apparent racial slur, he would have likely gotten off on Self-Defense. So he'll probably still do some time.

Not it won't. If the "coon" comment actually happened it only proves Zimmerman doesn't like black people not that he killed the kid.

You can't go to jail for being a racist idiot. For good reason, we live in a free country.


...on another note how stupid do you have to be to saying something like "f***ing coon" on the phone with a 9-11 dispatcher?

I've heard the tape, it really isn't clear that that is what he said.

I've heard it too. I have absolutely no clue where he is actually said to have said that.
 
I don't believe he was lying. I believe Zimmerman picked a fight with the wrong kid and the kid probably beat the crap out of him.

I have no basis to say that the witness, "John," was lying. And if he was just fairly and more or less accurately reporting what he personally observed, I can certainly understand why there was no arrest.

I still cannot. Dead unarmed 17-year-old screams "take him in" too me. When in doubt...

Thye took him down for questioning, they confiscated the gun, and after investigation and witness accounts, they released him. I'm glad I livein a country where peo[ple aren't arrested first, and then stay in jail until proven innocent.
 

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