New UK single payer policy: No surgery if you're overweight or smoke

[dblack]

If it is being paid for by tax payers there is a good argument I think.
Why should I pay for someone's health care when they are making conscience decisions to make their health worse without my say in it.

So why don't we deny coverage for people who do risky things like Ski or bungee jump when they get hurt?

We shouldn't. But coverage for health care covering "risky" behaviors should COST more.
Just as Automobile insurance costs more the more claims or accidents you have.

That said, I believe INSURANCE is what fucked up the health care system in the first place and caused the cost of health care to become unaffordable. Insurance schemes allows the cost of a commodity to exceed the free market controlled price of that same commodity....thereby providing a massive pool of funds to be regulated and delegated...among wealthy CEO's and politicians that work with them.

Actual insurance works that way. Insurance adjusters set the premium for a given person based on how much risk there is that they'll need health care. The problem is "group insurance".

Yeah right. Your "Actual Insurance" is exactly WHY health care is unaffordable and bankrupting so many Americans today.

??? Actual insurance works fine. Group insurance is what destroys markets.

Except that you fail to understand or explain the basis for the "PREMIUM". Who determines the Premium, how is it calculated, is it the most efficient vehicle to get the patients available resources towards the necessary treatment and does it have the best interest of the person in need of the service in mind? And how much of the premium is simply padding for deep pockets?

ALL these things are government REGULATED, and government is NEVER the most efficient handler.

It's like justifying taxation by saying "things have to be paid for", with no analysis of the actual costs or why and then expecting there to be no waste of tax payer funds and no abuse of that massive pool of money. Gee, that never happens

I can't say I really understand your argument at all.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The UK isn't single payer.

Except it is. Good night

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I can't say I really understand your argument at all.

I understand.
Many people said that about Albert Einstein as well.

 

[MadChemist]

NHS provokes fury with indefinite surgery ban for smokers and obese

Big nanny government sucks.

East and North Hertfordshire CCG and Herts Valleys said the plans aimed to encourage people “to take more responsibility for their own health and wellbeing, wherever possible, freeing up limited NHS resources for priority treatment”.

Both are in financial difficulty, and between them seeking to save £68m during this financial year.

Ian Eardley, senior vice president of the Royal College of Surgeons, said it was wrong to bar NHS treatment to any group of patients.

“Singling out patients in this way goes against the principles of the NHS,” he said.

"This goes against clinical guidance and leaves patients waiting long periods of time in pain and discomfort. It can even lead to worse outcomes following surgery in some cases,” he said.

"There is simply no justification for these policies, and we urge all clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) to urgently reverse these discriminatory measures."

#####################

And so we see an effort to reduce costs.

While there are some who see this as unfair.

Some things just seem constant across the board.

Why are they in financial difficulty?

The UK spends LESS per capita than the US federal govt. Can you believe that? Not only that but the Tories tell everyone how EXPENSIVE the system is. Read "they don't want to pay for it". Yet they want a system like the US system which costs TWICE AS MUCH. Er... yeah, it costs too much therefore we're going to try for a system which costs double.

Does anyone get that logic?

You'll need to ask them why they are in financial difficulty. That was from the article.

Can I believe what ? That the U.S. spends more per capita than any other country on health care ? I think I have been saying that from the start.

I don't know what the Tories want.

What I do see is that if they don't have the money, they are looking for ways to cut costs.

That seems pretty universal.

 

[frigidweirdo]

NHS provokes fury with indefinite surgery ban for smokers and obese

Big nanny government sucks.

East and North Hertfordshire CCG and Herts Valleys said the plans aimed to encourage people “to take more responsibility for their own health and wellbeing, wherever possible, freeing up limited NHS resources for priority treatment”.

Both are in financial difficulty, and between them seeking to save £68m during this financial year.

Ian Eardley, senior vice president of the Royal College of Surgeons, said it was wrong to bar NHS treatment to any group of patients.

“Singling out patients in this way goes against the principles of the NHS,” he said.

"This goes against clinical guidance and leaves patients waiting long periods of time in pain and discomfort. It can even lead to worse outcomes following surgery in some cases,” he said.

"There is simply no justification for these policies, and we urge all clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) to urgently reverse these discriminatory measures."

#####################

And so we see an effort to reduce costs.

While there are some who see this as unfair.

Some things just seem constant across the board.

Why are they in financial difficulty?

The UK spends LESS per capita than the US federal govt. Can you believe that? Not only that but the Tories tell everyone how EXPENSIVE the system is. Read "they don't want to pay for it". Yet they want a system like the US system which costs TWICE AS MUCH. Er... yeah, it costs too much therefore we're going to try for a system which costs double.

Does anyone get that logic?

You'll need to ask them why they are in financial difficulty. That was from the article.

Can I believe what ? That the U.S. spends more per capita than any other country on health care ? I think I have been saying that from the start.

I don't know what the Tories want.

What I do see is that if they don't have the money, they are looking for ways to cut costs.

That seems pretty universal.

I know why the UK NHS is in financial difficultly, the fucking Tories won't give it the money it needs.

The point I made was that the US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, that doesn't include people paying for health insurance here, it's just what the US govt spends, is MORE than the UK govt spends on the whole of the NHS (per capita).

The Tories have the money. Trust me on this, they have the money. They just don't want to spend the money on the NHS, they want to give back to rich people. It's that simple.

One thing is cutting costs, another thing is fucking over a system because you want a system you can leech off.

 

[MadChemist]

NHS provokes fury with indefinite surgery ban for smokers and obese

Big nanny government sucks.

East and North Hertfordshire CCG and Herts Valleys said the plans aimed to encourage people “to take more responsibility for their own health and wellbeing, wherever possible, freeing up limited NHS resources for priority treatment”.

Both are in financial difficulty, and between them seeking to save £68m during this financial year.

Ian Eardley, senior vice president of the Royal College of Surgeons, said it was wrong to bar NHS treatment to any group of patients.

“Singling out patients in this way goes against the principles of the NHS,” he said.

"This goes against clinical guidance and leaves patients waiting long periods of time in pain and discomfort. It can even lead to worse outcomes following surgery in some cases,” he said.

"There is simply no justification for these policies, and we urge all clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) to urgently reverse these discriminatory measures."

#####################

And so we see an effort to reduce costs.

While there are some who see this as unfair.

Some things just seem constant across the board.

Why are they in financial difficulty?

The UK spends LESS per capita than the US federal govt. Can you believe that? Not only that but the Tories tell everyone how EXPENSIVE the system is. Read "they don't want to pay for it". Yet they want a system like the US system which costs TWICE AS MUCH. Er... yeah, it costs too much therefore we're going to try for a system which costs double.

Does anyone get that logic?

You'll need to ask them why they are in financial difficulty. That was from the article.

Can I believe what ? That the U.S. spends more per capita than any other country on health care ? I think I have been saying that from the start.

I don't know what the Tories want.

What I do see is that if they don't have the money, they are looking for ways to cut costs.

That seems pretty universal.

I know why the UK NHS is in financial difficultly, the fucking Tories won't give it the money it needs.

The point I made was that the US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, that doesn't include people paying for health insurance here, it's just what the US govt spends, is MORE than the UK govt spends on the whole of the NHS (per capita).

The Tories have the money. Trust me on this, they have the money. They just don't want to spend the money on the NHS, they want to give back to rich people. It's that simple.

One thing is cutting costs, another thing is fucking over a system because you want a system you can leech off.

Thanks for clearing that up your key premise.

Can you provide the data on what you are referencing regarding what the U.S. Government spends.

I would be grateful.

 

[frigidweirdo]

NHS provokes fury with indefinite surgery ban for smokers and obese

Big nanny government sucks.

East and North Hertfordshire CCG and Herts Valleys said the plans aimed to encourage people “to take more responsibility for their own health and wellbeing, wherever possible, freeing up limited NHS resources for priority treatment”.

Both are in financial difficulty, and between them seeking to save £68m during this financial year.

Ian Eardley, senior vice president of the Royal College of Surgeons, said it was wrong to bar NHS treatment to any group of patients.

“Singling out patients in this way goes against the principles of the NHS,” he said.

"This goes against clinical guidance and leaves patients waiting long periods of time in pain and discomfort. It can even lead to worse outcomes following surgery in some cases,” he said.

"There is simply no justification for these policies, and we urge all clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) to urgently reverse these discriminatory measures."

#####################

And so we see an effort to reduce costs.

While there are some who see this as unfair.

Some things just seem constant across the board.

Why are they in financial difficulty?

The UK spends LESS per capita than the US federal govt. Can you believe that? Not only that but the Tories tell everyone how EXPENSIVE the system is. Read "they don't want to pay for it". Yet they want a system like the US system which costs TWICE AS MUCH. Er... yeah, it costs too much therefore we're going to try for a system which costs double.

Does anyone get that logic?

You'll need to ask them why they are in financial difficulty. That was from the article.

Can I believe what ? That the U.S. spends more per capita than any other country on health care ? I think I have been saying that from the start.

I don't know what the Tories want.

What I do see is that if they don't have the money, they are looking for ways to cut costs.

That seems pretty universal.

I know why the UK NHS is in financial difficultly, the fucking Tories won't give it the money it needs.

The point I made was that the US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, that doesn't include people paying for health insurance here, it's just what the US govt spends, is MORE than the UK govt spends on the whole of the NHS (per capita).

The Tories have the money. Trust me on this, they have the money. They just don't want to spend the money on the NHS, they want to give back to rich people. It's that simple.

One thing is cutting costs, another thing is fucking over a system because you want a system you can leech off.

Thanks for clearing that up your key premise.

Can you provide the data on what you are referencing regarding what the U.S. Government spends.

I would be grateful.

Yes, I can

Spending on the NHS in England

Total health spending in England is nearly £124 billion in 2017/18

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...aphic_2016.png/675px-CBO_Infographic_2016.png

$588 billion on Medicare, $368 billion on Medicaid which is $956 billion.

£124 billion is $161 billion US.

UK population is 65 million. This means $2476 is spent per person in the UK
US population is 325 million. This means $2941 is spent per person in the US, just by the US Federal government on Medicare and Medicaid.

 

[MadChemist]

East and North Hertfordshire CCG and Herts Valleys said the plans aimed to encourage people “to take more responsibility for their own health and wellbeing, wherever possible, freeing up limited NHS resources for priority treatment”.

Both are in financial difficulty, and between them seeking to save £68m during this financial year.

Ian Eardley, senior vice president of the Royal College of Surgeons, said it was wrong to bar NHS treatment to any group of patients.

“Singling out patients in this way goes against the principles of the NHS,” he said.

"This goes against clinical guidance and leaves patients waiting long periods of time in pain and discomfort. It can even lead to worse outcomes following surgery in some cases,” he said.

"There is simply no justification for these policies, and we urge all clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) to urgently reverse these discriminatory measures."

#####################

And so we see an effort to reduce costs.

While there are some who see this as unfair.

Some things just seem constant across the board.

Why are they in financial difficulty?

The UK spends LESS per capita than the US federal govt. Can you believe that? Not only that but the Tories tell everyone how EXPENSIVE the system is. Read "they don't want to pay for it". Yet they want a system like the US system which costs TWICE AS MUCH. Er... yeah, it costs too much therefore we're going to try for a system which costs double.

Does anyone get that logic?

You'll need to ask them why they are in financial difficulty. That was from the article.

Can I believe what ? That the U.S. spends more per capita than any other country on health care ? I think I have been saying that from the start.

I don't know what the Tories want.

What I do see is that if they don't have the money, they are looking for ways to cut costs.

That seems pretty universal.

I know why the UK NHS is in financial difficultly, the fucking Tories won't give it the money it needs.

The point I made was that the US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, that doesn't include people paying for health insurance here, it's just what the US govt spends, is MORE than the UK govt spends on the whole of the NHS (per capita).

The Tories have the money. Trust me on this, they have the money. They just don't want to spend the money on the NHS, they want to give back to rich people. It's that simple.

One thing is cutting costs, another thing is fucking over a system because you want a system you can leech off.

Thanks for clearing that up your key premise.

Can you provide the data on what you are referencing regarding what the U.S. Government spends.

I would be grateful.

Yes, I can

Spending on the NHS in England

Total health spending in England is nearly £124 billion in 2017/18

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...aphic_2016.png/675px-CBO_Infographic_2016.png

$588 billion on Medicare, $368 billion on Medicaid which is $956 billion.

£124 billion is $161 billion US.

UK population is 65 million. This means $2476 is spent per person in the UK
US population is 325 million. This means $2941 is spent per person in the US, just by the US Federal government on Medicare and Medicaid.

Great data.

Thanks.