New Proposed Laws Threaten Obama's 2012 Re-Election Prospects

[Charles_Main]

The American people will be glad to know that this is what the Republicans and The Tea Party think is the best use of their time.

So you think all Republicans agree with this eh.

 

[GStarz]

The American people will be glad to know that this is what the Republicans and The Tea Party think is the best use of their time.

So you think all Republicans agree with this eh.

Actually, so do some hard-core liberals, like Mother Jones News, Chris Matthews and the Huffington post. and it isn't about race, either, because blacks like Alan Keyes, Starr Parker and Pastor James David manning are all over this, too.

At this point it has nothing to do with party or race. It has to do with common sense and intellectual honesty. Obama himself said a man with nothing to hide hides nothing. Okay, we take him at his word that he meant it. So what is he hiding in his records? People want to know - have a constitutional right to know - and want Obama to cut the shit, release the records and get on with business and lose all the lawyers protecting his seeming secret on the taxpayer dime. It really isn't complicated. Hence the new laws.

And if he isn't squeaky clean, he's fucked.

 

[kaz]

the full faith and credit clause of the constitution requires all states to accept the legal documents of another state as valid
many states issue the short form as proof of citizenship
all these laws will have to accept that or be found unconstitutional

Sorry, you lost me. Any State that passes the law is not saying they won't recognize the documents of another State, they are saying they want the document. If they were to say they would not recognize Hawaiian Birth Certificates as valid then they would be in violation of the The Full Faith and Credit. But they are not saying they don't recognize the documents, they are saying they want the documents.

I'm not in favor of the birther movement, i think he is an American citizen and he followed the rules as they were in 2008. I have no problem with States requiring more documentation though in future elections

right, but they will have to accept what the state issues or be in violation
that is my point
the state of HI issues the short form as proof of birth
they MUST accept that or the law will be found unconstitutional

"Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State."

It doesn't say they have to accept every "document" issued by a State. This doesn't say in any way they can't require for additional or a "long version" of a Document.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Sorry, you lost me. Any State that passes the law is not saying they won't recognize the documents of another State, they are saying they want the document. If they were to say they would not recognize Hawaiian Birth Certificates as valid then they would be in violation of the The Full Faith and Credit. But they are not saying they don't recognize the documents, they are saying they want the documents.

I'm not in favor of the birther movement, i think he is an American citizen and he followed the rules as they were in 2008. I have no problem with States requiring more documentation though in future elections

right, but they will have to accept what the state issues or be in violation
that is my point
the state of HI issues the short form as proof of birth
they MUST accept that or the law will be found unconstitutional

"Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State."

It doesn't say they have to accept every "document" issued by a State. This doesn't say in any way they can't require for additional or a "long version" of a Document.

It says they have to honor the public acts of another States, the State of Hawaii (and many others) do not issue "long form" birth certificates to verify for citizenship purposes, location of birth. Many issues short form documents.

It makes no sense for State A to pass a law requiring what State B issues in terms of documents. It violates the concept of one state honoring the public acts of another state when that state refuses to honor the documents of the other state (unless of course Congress has exercised it's Full Faith and Credit authority to define the "effect thereof" of those public acts like they did with DOMA.)

Any State that tries to mandated the contents of a document issued by another State is going to run into serious challenges in Federal Court. Now if they said they required the birth certificate of the candidate AND the separately issued birth certificate (or citizenship documents) of the parents - that would be a different matter as it is accepting the documents of the originating state and requiring the additional documentation of the parents.



>>>>

 

[The T]

No worries, the left will call you a racist and that will be that. Case closed... Obama runs in '12.

I wonder if the left will call the Right rascist if Herman Cain runs?

Is that Godfather Pizza dude?

*MORE THAN THAT*


HERMANCAIN

[SNIP]

Herman Cain has enjoyed a stellar career in the business world. He became the youngest vice president in the history of The Pillsbury Company in 1977 after just three years with the company. He left this position in 1982 to learn the restaurant business at Pillsbury's Burger King subsidiary. In 1986, his success with Burger King prompted Pillsbury to select Cain to assume the presidency of another of its struggling companies, Godfather's Pizza. Finally, he became the first black president of the National Restaurant Association, the food service industry's leading trade organization.

When Cain started working at a Minneapolis Burger King in 1982, he cleaned toilets and flipped hamburgers. After completing the management training program in only nine months, Cain was named vice president and general manager for the Philadelphia region of the Burger King Corporation. Attaining this position was particularly special for Cain, considering that he and several friends were refused service in a restaurant in 1952 when they attempted to buy a hamburger.


-----------------------------------------------------

Clear?

 

[kaz]

It says they have to honor the public acts of another States, the State of Hawaii (and many others) do not issue "long form" birth certificates to verify for citizenship purposes, location of birth. Many issues short form documents.

The "Act" is the certification of Obama being born in Hawaii. Issuing the document is not the "act." The Full Faith and Credit doesn't say the States can only request documentation the issuing State feels like providing. If you think about it, I bet you could think of a lot of things States would very likely want more documentation of before accepting. Have you moved between States? They don't just accept a drivers license as documentation. It's actually silly, you're just invested in this issue.

When I moved to North Carolina, I had to prove I wasn't someone who had a bad driving record and who's name was similar to mine even though the name on my drivers license wasn't the same as his.

 

[Toro]

OK, but Hawaii does have a long version. If a candidate from NE or MO were denied, they could reasonably argue it's unconstitutional. The Full Faith and Credit doesn't say though that Arizona or other States have to accept Hawaii's procedures for issuing docs, it says they must recognize the docs. The short version is an abbreviation of the full document, it's not the full document. To argue they have to accept the short version when the short version is short for a long version isn't there.

The states don't dictate which documents are valid in other states. There is nothing that differentiates which documents are valid and which are not. What matters is what the individual states decide is official to their own documentation. In the state of Hawaii, the short-form document is an official document.

Other bills are saying that both parents have to be natural born citizens, which is obviously making up constitutional law.

I doubt that, but if they are then it's flagrantly unconstitutional and any lawyer would know that and the legislatures are made up of lawyers, which is why I doubt that.

It's pretty stupid, eh? But that's the level of thinking.

Here is the exact bill from Nebraska.

25 (C) Requirement number two: One of the following in
1 subdivision (i) or (ii) or (iii) or (iv) or (v) of this subdivision:
2 (i) A certified copy of my birth mother's long-form birth
3 certificate indicating her United States citizenship;
4 (ii) Only if the document described in subdivision (i) of
5 this subdivision is not obtainable under the laws of the state that
6 issued my mother's birth certificate, then both documents described
7 in subdivisions (A) and (B) of this subdivision:
8 (A) A certified copy of my mother's certification of live
9 birth indicating her United States citizenship; and
10 (B) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating my
11 mother's place of birth as denoted on her long-form birth certificate
12 and stating that her parents names contained on her certification of
13 live birth are the same parent names as contained on her long-form
14 birth certificate;
15 (iii) My birth mother's Certificate of United States
16 Naturalization showing she obtained United States citizenship prior
17 to my date of birth;
18 (iv) My birth mother's Certificate of United States
19 Citizenship showing she obtained United States citizenship prior to
20 my date of birth; or
21 (v) Certified copies of documents that indicate my mother
22 was a United States citizen prior to my birth, being the same
23 documents as those required to obtain a Certificate of United States
24 Citizenship; and

25 (c) Requirement number three: One of the following in
1 subdivision (i) or (ii) or (iii) or (iv) or (v) or (vi) of this
2 subdivision:
3 (i) A certified copy of my birth father's long-form birth
4 certificate indicating his United States citizenship;
5 (ii) Only if the document described in subdivision (i) of
6 this subdivision is not obtainable under the laws of the state that
7 issued my father's birth certificate, then both documents described
8 in subdivisions (A) and (B) of this subdivision:
9 (A) A certified copy of my father's certification of live
10 birth indicating his United States citizenship; and
11 (B) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating my
12 father's place of birth as denoted on his long-form birth certificate
13 and stating that his parents names contained on his certification of
14 live birth are the same parent names as contained on his long-form
15 birth certificate;
16 (iii) My birth father's Certificate of United States
17 Naturalization showing he obtained United States citizenship prior to
18 my date of birth;
19 (iv) My birth father's Certificate of United States
20 Citizenship showing he obtained United States citizenship prior to my
21 date of birth;
22 (v) Certified copies of documents that indicate my father
23 was a United States citizen prior to my birth, being the same
24 documents as those required to obtain a Certificate of United States
25 Citizenship; or
1 (vi) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating
2 that (A) no father is listed on my first original long-form birth
3 certificate, (B) I do not know who my birth father is and (C) I have
4 no reason to believe my birth father was not a United States citizen
5 at the time of my birth.

http://nebraskalegislature.gov/FloorDocs/Current/PDF/Intro/LB654.pdf

Some, but not all, of the other birfer laws ask for the same thing.

 

[DiveCon]

OK, but Hawaii does have a long version. If a candidate from NE or MO were denied, they could reasonably argue it's unconstitutional. The Full Faith and Credit doesn't say though that Arizona or other States have to accept Hawaii's procedures for issuing docs, it says they must recognize the docs. The short version is an abbreviation of the full document, it's not the full document. To argue they have to accept the short version when the short version is short for a long version isn't there.

The states don't dictate which documents are valid in other states. There is nothing that differentiates which documents are valid and which are not. What matters is what the individual states decide is official to their own documentation. In the state of Hawaii, the short-form document is an official document.

I doubt that, but if they are then it's flagrantly unconstitutional and any lawyer would know that and the legislatures are made up of lawyers, which is why I doubt that.

It's pretty stupid, eh? But that's the level of thinking.

Here is the exact bill from Nebraska.

25 (C) Requirement number two: One of the following in
1 subdivision (i) or (ii) or (iii) or (iv) or (v) of this subdivision:
2 (i) A certified copy of my birth mother's long-form birth
3 certificate indicating her United States citizenship;
4 (ii) Only if the document described in subdivision (i) of
5 this subdivision is not obtainable under the laws of the state that
6 issued my mother's birth certificate, then both documents described
7 in subdivisions (A) and (B) of this subdivision:
8 (A) A certified copy of my mother's certification of live
9 birth indicating her United States citizenship; and
10 (B) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating my
11 mother's place of birth as denoted on her long-form birth certificate
12 and stating that her parents names contained on her certification of
13 live birth are the same parent names as contained on her long-form
14 birth certificate;
15 (iii) My birth mother's Certificate of United States
16 Naturalization showing she obtained United States citizenship prior
17 to my date of birth;
18 (iv) My birth mother's Certificate of United States
19 Citizenship showing she obtained United States citizenship prior to
20 my date of birth; or
21 (v) Certified copies of documents that indicate my mother
22 was a United States citizen prior to my birth, being the same
23 documents as those required to obtain a Certificate of United States
24 Citizenship; and

25 (c) Requirement number three: One of the following in
1 subdivision (i) or (ii) or (iii) or (iv) or (v) or (vi) of this
2 subdivision:
3 (i) A certified copy of my birth father's long-form birth
4 certificate indicating his United States citizenship;
5 (ii) Only if the document described in subdivision (i) of
6 this subdivision is not obtainable under the laws of the state that
7 issued my father's birth certificate, then both documents described
8 in subdivisions (A) and (B) of this subdivision:
9 (A) A certified copy of my father's certification of live
10 birth indicating his United States citizenship; and
11 (B) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating my
12 father's place of birth as denoted on his long-form birth certificate
13 and stating that his parents names contained on his certification of
14 live birth are the same parent names as contained on his long-form
15 birth certificate;
16 (iii) My birth father's Certificate of United States
17 Naturalization showing he obtained United States citizenship prior to
18 my date of birth;
19 (iv) My birth father's Certificate of United States
20 Citizenship showing he obtained United States citizenship prior to my
21 date of birth;
22 (v) Certified copies of documents that indicate my father
23 was a United States citizen prior to my birth, being the same
24 documents as those required to obtain a Certificate of United States
25 Citizenship; or
1 (vi) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating
2 that (A) no father is listed on my first original long-form birth
3 certificate, (B) I do not know who my birth father is and (C) I have
4 no reason to believe my birth father was not a United States citizen
5 at the time of my birth.

http://nebraskalegislature.gov/FloorDocs/Current/PDF/Intro/LB654.pdf

Some, but not all, of the other birfer laws ask for the same thing.

if that passes, it wont stand SCOTUS review

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Intellectually dishonest liberal activists have been dismissing people who want to know what Obama is hiding in his past with such pithy classifications as "Birthers", "Birfers", Wingnuts and lots of other unsubstantial, childish, school-ground name-calling instead of legitimate debate, and to some extent it has worked to silence many critics.

I am not an intellectually dishonest liberal activist and I think you people are bat shit crazy nut ball fuck wads because, well, that's obvious.

Furthermore, all of these states that are putting their stupidity on display are mainly states that Obama would be unlikely to win in the first place, so what do they think they are achieving?

 

[Toro]

It says they have to honor the public acts of another States, the State of Hawaii (and many others) do not issue "long form" birth certificates to verify for citizenship purposes, location of birth. Many issues short form documents.

The "Act" is the certification of Obama being born in Hawaii. Issuing the document is not the "act." The Full Faith and Credit doesn't say the States can only request documentation the issuing State feels like providing. If you think about it, I bet you could think of a lot of things States would very likely want more documentation of before accepting. Have you moved between States? They don't just accept a drivers license as documentation. It's actually silly, you're just invested in this issue.

When I moved to North Carolina, I had to prove I wasn't someone who had a bad driving record and who's name was similar to mine even though the name on my drivers license wasn't the same as his.

I moved from Ontario to Florida. I was issued a Florida's drivers license on the spot in exchange for my Ontario license. I didn't have to show any other documentation.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

It says they have to honor the public acts of another States, the State of Hawaii (and many others) do not issue "long form" birth certificates to verify for citizenship purposes, location of birth. Many issues short form documents.

The "Act" is the certification of Obama being born in Hawaii. Issuing the document is not the "act." The Full Faith and Credit doesn't say the States can only request documentation the issuing State feels like providing. If you think about it, I bet you could think of a lot of things States would very likely want more documentation of before accepting. Have you moved between States? They don't just accept a drivers license as documentation. It's actually silly, you're just invested in this issue.

When I moved to North Carolina, I had to prove I wasn't someone who had a bad driving record and who's name was similar to mine even though the name on my drivers license wasn't the same as his.

I moved from Ontario to Florida. I was issued a Florida's drivers license on the spot in exchange for my Ontario license. I didn't have to show any other documentation.

I did the same thing when I moved to South Carolina. I handed them my Massachusetts license and they gave me a South Carolina one right then and there. Didn't have to take any test or anything.

Your experience actually surprised me, though, with you being from a foreign country.

 

[The T]

It says they have to honor the public acts of another States, the State of Hawaii (and many others) do not issue "long form" birth certificates to verify for citizenship purposes, location of birth. Many issues short form documents.

The "Act" is the certification of Obama being born in Hawaii. Issuing the document is not the "act." The Full Faith and Credit doesn't say the States can only request documentation the issuing State feels like providing. If you think about it, I bet you could think of a lot of things States would very likely want more documentation of before accepting. Have you moved between States? They don't just accept a drivers license as documentation. It's actually silly, you're just invested in this issue.

When I moved to North Carolina, I had to prove I wasn't someone who had a bad driving record and who's name was similar to mine even though the name on my drivers license wasn't the same as his.

I moved from Ontario to Florida. I was issued a Florida's drivers license on the spot in exchange for my Ontario license. I didn't have to show any other documentation.

And it varies between the States as to what the criterium is. Has anyone wondered how you are allowed to drive from one State into another and your liscense to be valid?

It's a thing called reciprosity...

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I wonder if the left will call the Right rascist if Herman Cain runs?

Is that Godfather Pizza dude?

*MORE THAN THAT*


HERMANCAIN

[SNIP]

Herman Cain has enjoyed a stellar career in the business world. He became the youngest vice president in the history of The Pillsbury Company in 1977 after just three years with the company. He left this position in 1982 to learn the restaurant business at Pillsbury's Burger King subsidiary. In 1986, his success with Burger King prompted Pillsbury to select Cain to assume the presidency of another of its struggling companies, Godfather's Pizza. Finally, he became the first black president of the National Restaurant Association, the food service industry's leading trade organization.

When Cain started working at a Minneapolis Burger King in 1982, he cleaned toilets and flipped hamburgers. After completing the management training program in only nine months, Cain was named vice president and general manager for the Philadelphia region of the Burger King Corporation. Attaining this position was particularly special for Cain, considering that he and several friends were refused service in a restaurant in 1952 when they attempted to buy a hamburger.


-----------------------------------------------------

Clear?

Sure... he's actually accomplished something. For this, the left will summarily dismiss him as not smart enough. It oughtta be good... I can hear it now... Uncle Tom, Oreo....

 

[The T]

Is that Godfather Pizza dude?

*MORE THAN THAT*


HERMANCAIN

[SNIP]

Herman Cain has enjoyed a stellar career in the business world. He became the youngest vice president in the history of The Pillsbury Company in 1977 after just three years with the company. He left this position in 1982 to learn the restaurant business at Pillsbury's Burger King subsidiary. In 1986, his success with Burger King prompted Pillsbury to select Cain to assume the presidency of another of its struggling companies, Godfather's Pizza. Finally, he became the first black president of the National Restaurant Association, the food service industry's leading trade organization.

When Cain started working at a Minneapolis Burger King in 1982, he cleaned toilets and flipped hamburgers. After completing the management training program in only nine months, Cain was named vice president and general manager for the Philadelphia region of the Burger King Corporation. Attaining this position was particularly special for Cain, considering that he and several friends were refused service in a restaurant in 1952 when they attempted to buy a hamburger.


-----------------------------------------------------

Clear?

Sure... he's actually accomplished something. For this, the left will summarily dismiss him as not smart enough. It oughtta be good... I can hear it now... Uncle Tom, Oreo....

By the usual suspects. Denegrate someone that actually WORKED in the private sector very hard...wheras Obama Never Has...and was a paid professional Shit Disturbing Goon.

 

[BluesMistress]

Seems that eligibility has been in question for a while.
some OLD NEWS ~~~
This is an excellent article explaining the process as to how Obama got on the ballot.

BORN IN THE USA?

Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up?
Online images for certification of nomination raise questions

Read more: Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up? Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up?

 

[DiveCon]

Seems that eligibility has been in question for a while.
some OLD NEWS ~~~
This is an excellent article explaining the process as to how Obama got on the ballot.

BORN IN THE USA?

Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up?
Online images for certification of nomination raise questions

Read more: Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up? Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up?

WND, dismissed

they will post anything there

 

[Polk]

Seems that eligibility has been in question for a while.
some OLD NEWS ~~~
This is an excellent article explaining the process as to how Obama got on the ballot.

BORN IN THE USA?

Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up?
Online images for certification of nomination raise questions

Read more: Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up? Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up?

WND, dismissed

they will post anything there

Will soy make me gay?

 

[The T]

Seems that eligibility has been in question for a while.
some OLD NEWS ~~~
This is an excellent article explaining the process as to how Obama got on the ballot.

BORN IN THE USA?

Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up?
Online images for certification of nomination raise questions

Read more: Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up? Eye-popper: Is Nancy Pelosi in on eligibility cover-up?

WND, dismissed

they will post anything there

Will soy make me gay?

You are an idiot.

 

[Polk]

WND, dismissed

they will post anything there

Will soy make me gay?

You are an idiot.

It's a reference to the article that I consider one of WorldNutDaily's most absurd.

Soy is making kids 'gay'

 

[The T]

Will soy make me gay?

You are an idiot.

It's a reference to the article that I consider one of WorldNutDaily's most absurd.

Soy is making kids 'gay'

Then WHY on EARTH didn't *YOU* post that to start with, Klop?