New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews

[Olde Europe]

Interesting points. The more conservative a religious faction, the less tolerant of The Other, whether Jewish, Christian or Muslim. In regards to the role of women, of religion being part law, and tolerance of The Other they are more alike each other than their more secular or liberal counterparts within their own faith.

What is also interesting is that these attitudes are not related to conflict at least going by the poll questions but have become culturally ingrained in much the same way antisemitic attitudes are endemic among Muslims.

But it seems taboo to discuss attitudes discrimmination by Jews in Israel. They are no different than any other group of people in that regard. But then...look at responses. They run from complete justification and support for Israeli Jewish bias to complete justificstion for antisemitism, anti Jewish conspiracy theory and even Holocaust denial

Part of the problemthough with these bias' is their proponents often seem to have outsized political influence and that leads to real discriminstion in Israeli society.

Food for thought here.

I don't know whether "conservative" is the apt expression here, as conservatives might well be inward-looking, but that's not what we see. I'd use "bigoted". The factions that actually want a society organized along their particular, sectarian religious concepts must regard any Other (religious or secular) as a threat to their aims, as their mere presence would pose an obstacle, much more so active resistance. The more bitter the fight over which sect is to govern, the more vigorous the Othering.

If Israeli racism were a mere consequence of the conflict, it would be rather hard to explain the huge differences in attitude along religious lines, wouldn't it? After all, the conflict afflicts all, regardless of faith, or degree of "conservatism".

Of course, there are trolls who would say the most outrageous things merely to garner attention and derail the thread, and on both ends of the "spectrum". Finally, I agree that the most bigoted, the most vigorous in their advocacy, exert outsize political influence, even more so in case they hold the balance of power in a coalition government.

 

[mudwhistle]

this is new....Jews have issues with Arabs.....huh.....who woulda thought.

haaaa ....too funny

i mean

it is funny ...yes?

of course it it is

like jews will never have issues with Arabs

fun fun fun ....what else can you say

Well...you could actually READ the article and comment intelligently on it? Because based on your response I doubt you read it.

I started reading it and became so overcome with the same feeling I get from watching The View that I had to click away.

 

[rylah]

Arabs never had any reasons to hate Jews until Christianity and Islam reached Arabia, and this has nothing to do with either it's a secular or religious Jew, the disproportionate hatred of a tiny ethnic group (less than 1% of the world's population) can never be equivalent to its' fear of that hating majority.

This is 180 degrees opposite to how the liberal left treats any other marginalized minority in the world, and it's especially clear when compared against their treatment of the 2 billion "minority'...

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Arabs never had any reasons to hate Jews until Christianity and Islam reached Arabia, and this has nothing to do with either it's a secular or religious Jew, the disproportionate hatred of a tiny ethnic group (less than 1% of the world's population) can never be equivalent to its' fear of that hating majority.

This is 180 degrees opposite to how the liberal left treats any other marginalized minority in the world, and it's especially clear when compared against their treatment of the 2 billion "minority'...

Yep.

For those like coyote and oldeurope, however, it it safer to join the large majority as they persecute the small minority than be courageous enough to confront the real hatred

After all, if they hear a thousand voices hating Jews to each voice defending them, the haters must be in the right.

It's the pernicious fallacy of the appeal to popularity that proves irresistible to unthinking individuals with a strongly expressed herd instinct .

 

[Penelope]

Very interesting article, the poll was done to parallel another poll done on anti-semitism in Europe. Interestingly, but not unsurprising (as it is similar in many societies) the more secular, the more tolerant.

New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews

Channel 10 said they commission the poll from the IDI to “examine how racism, which underpins anti-Semitism, is being expressed by the Jewish Israeli public.

Th TV station said it recycled some of the questions asked in the CNN poll to uncover the Jewish attitudes of living with “the other.”

Channel 10 noted that one of the main topics in the CNN survey concerned the Holocaust, saying that it’s generally assumed that studying the genocide of European Jewry makes a person aware of consequences of racism and are less likely to be anti-Semitism. So in its poll, the TV station said it wanted to learn “what do the Jews, who demand world remember the Holocaust, know about the annihilation of other peoples?”

The results showed that an overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews — between 70-80% — said they knew “very little” or “nothing at all” about the Armenian, Cambodian or Rwandan genocides.

You will find most of them don't give a rip about other people. In the poll:

Over half of respondents said they agreed to some extent with the statement: “Most Jews are better than most non-Jews because they were born Jews.” (me-sick)

That is why they made WWII all about the holocaust and made money from the dead jews.

Someone commented about Rome, well according to history and the Bible, the diaspora started in about 500 bc and most never came back from Babylon.

The Palestinians are the left over Judeans of old, the real jews of old, who never left. The others are remanufactured, they had to relearn Hebrew and jewish culture.

Why do you think the Hasidic in NY and Israel wear Russian/German clothing and speak Yiddish.

I strongly disagree with that. If they dont get give a rip about other people why do they spend so much time and resources on providing quality medical care to refugees and people who's main is to kill them. You also ignore the correlation with level of religiosity. The same insular attitudes are found among Christians and Muslims and usually with greater degrees of violence associated with them.

Which refugees, the Syrians who fight for ISIS to do away with Assad, or the rich Russians that can pay. Oh sure they help some Palestinians but to be sure, most of Israel doesn't care about the Palestinians or anyone else really.

 

[Coyote]

Very interesting article, the poll was done to parallel another poll done on anti-semitism in Europe. Interestingly, but not unsurprising (as it is similar in many societies) the more secular, the more tolerant.

New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews

Channel 10 said they commission the poll from the IDI to “examine how racism, which underpins anti-Semitism, is being expressed by the Jewish Israeli public.

Th TV station said it recycled some of the questions asked in the CNN poll to uncover the Jewish attitudes of living with “the other.”

Channel 10 noted that one of the main topics in the CNN survey concerned the Holocaust, saying that it’s generally assumed that studying the genocide of European Jewry makes a person aware of consequences of racism and are less likely to be anti-Semitism. So in its poll, the TV station said it wanted to learn “what do the Jews, who demand world remember the Holocaust, know about the annihilation of other peoples?”

The results showed that an overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews — between 70-80% — said they knew “very little” or “nothing at all” about the Armenian, Cambodian or Rwandan genocides.

You will find most of them don't give a rip about other people. In the poll:

Over half of respondents said they agreed to some extent with the statement: “Most Jews are better than most non-Jews because they were born Jews.” (me-sick)

That is why they made WWII all about the holocaust and made money from the dead jews.

Someone commented about Rome, well according to history and the Bible, the diaspora started in about 500 bc and most never came back from Babylon.

The Palestinians are the left over Judeans of old, the real jews of old, who never left. The others are remanufactured, they had to relearn Hebrew and jewish culture.

Why do you think the Hasidic in NY and Israel wear Russian/German clothing and speak Yiddish.

I strongly disagree with that. If they dont get give a rip about other people why do they spend so much time and resources on providing quality medical care to refugees and people who's main is to kill them. You also ignore the correlation with level of religiosity. The same insular attitudes are found among Christians and Muslims and usually with greater degrees of violence associated with them.

Which refugees, the Syrians who fight for ISIS to do away with Assad, or the rich Russians that can pay. Oh sure they help some Palestinians but to be sure, most of Israel doesn't care about the Palestinians or anyone else really.

Actually they give medical care to quite a few Palestinians even though their leaders would rather pay for terrorist benefits than the medical care of their own people. They have also provided a lot of care for Syrian civilians caught up in the fighting.

 

[Coyote]

This thread has a topic guys, let’s try to stick to it ok?

 

[Coyote]

Arabs never had any reasons to hate Jews until Christianity and Islam reached Arabia, and this has nothing to do with either it's a secular or religious Jew, the disproportionate hatred of a tiny ethnic group (less than 1% of the world's population) can never be equivalent to its' fear of that hating majority.

This is 180 degrees opposite to how the liberal left treats any other marginalized minority in the world, and it's especially clear when compared against their treatment of the 2 billion "minority'...

What...are you trying to justify hatred against other minority groups? Seriously? Isn’t it possible to say it is all condemnable? Are you saying Jews are incapable of the same petty or major hates that any other group is? And that don’t or can’t inflict those bias on the lives of others? The poll isn’t about fear but attitudes. The only difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims is that the latter have long held a huge majority with which to conduct their wars, conquests, programs and injustices. They are all human in the end and humans often don’t like their minority cultures very much.

 

[Coyote]

What is also interesting is that these attitudes are not related to conflict at least going by the poll questions but have become culturally ingrained in much the same way antisemitic attitudes are endemic among Muslims.

and that leads to real discriminstion in Israeli society.

Do You even realize how ridiculous this sounds.
This is like claiming that once we take sexual assault from the equation, the hate of the rapist and the fear of the victim are equivalent.

It isn’t ridiculous at all or you would find the views more evenly spread throughout Israeli Jews and they aren’t. Blaming it all on the conflict is just a means of justifying bigotry. Using your logic you would be justifying Palestinian antisemitism as a result of the conflict with Israel then.

 

[fncceo]

Jews almost got wiped off the map, great britian and the USA gave them a home..


.

No one gave me a home. I had to buy my own.

 

[Coyote]

This thread is merely an attempt to minimize anti-semitism and reduce it to the same sort of discrimination and othering that is common everywhere in the world and in all societies. It is not anti-semitism has unique features and a unique ability to pass from culture to culture and exist through millennia.

There is no equivalence in the relationship between Europeans and their Jews, which has been absent any sort of conflict or animosity for centuries and the relationship between Jews and their Arab neighbors which is defined by the conflict. The former is an unreasonable hatred and hostility; the latter is a response to a very real threat.

And of course it has to do with the conflict. Don't be ridiculous. You can't just remove the conflict from the game and pretend it doesn't influence people. Once you've heard comments like, "rip the hearts out of the apes and pigs Jews", you just can't unhear them. Not through the lens of thousands of years of persecution and genocide.

Oh brother. So in other words Jews are incapable of bigotry and stand far above the other groups who relentlessly hate, persecute, discriminate against others? I had no idea they incapable of such attitudes. Clearly the poll got it all wrong and these bigotries are entirely do to conflict and not the cultural attitudes that afflict other human groups. (Sarcasm alert).

Othering is othering. The only difference is that as a minority, the Jewish people have not had any power to act on it like other cultures except in Israel. Now this again is where it seems like we get into the appearance of Israel can do no wrong, the Jewish people can do no wrong, and to say otherwise, such as to talk about anti-Arab discrimination and bigotry in Israel, turns into accusations of anti-semitism for discussing it.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The only difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims is that the latter have long held a huge majority with which to conduct their wars, conquests, programs and injustices. .

So THAT'S why you have a 100% track record of supporting them 100% of the time.

Thanks for explaining.

As for the silly notion that there is no difference between Jews, Christians and Muslims, you have an incredible amount to learn about the world.

 

[Borillar]

In other news, water is found to be wet.

 

[flacaltenn]

Very interesting article, the poll was done to parallel another poll done on anti-semitism in Europe. Interestingly, but not unsurprising (as it is similar in many societies) the more secular, the more tolerant.

New poll shows strong anti-Arab sentiment among Israeli Jews

Channel 10 said they commission the poll from the IDI to “examine how racism, which underpins anti-Semitism, is being expressed by the Jewish Israeli public.

Th TV station said it recycled some of the questions asked in the CNN poll to uncover the Jewish attitudes of living with “the other.”

Channel 10 noted that one of the main topics in the CNN survey concerned the Holocaust, saying that it’s generally assumed that studying the genocide of European Jewry makes a person aware of consequences of racism and are less likely to be anti-Semitism. So in its poll, the TV station said it wanted to learn “what do the Jews, who demand world remember the Holocaust, know about the annihilation of other peoples?”

The results showed that an overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews — between 70-80% — said they knew “very little” or “nothing at all” about the Armenian, Cambodian or Rwandan genocides.

My 1st reaction to this Jerusalem Post poll was "they should know better than to present statistics that don't explain the significance". My 2nd reaction was -- "well their audience is LARGELY Israeli who KNOW the context of those numbers"..

On my "favorites" book shelf behind me is small paperback that was assigned to me in a Statistics class. It's called "How to LIE with Statistics". Only book I've ever read cover to cover three times. Because it outlines how you can paint a rembrandt or a warhol from the same painting pallet of raw numbers.

Here's the problem...

See the 2 darkest slices of Jews in Israel by "orthodoxy"?? That 22% is your "ultra orthodox". The 78% is the REST of Israeli Jewish population. Keep in mind that 13% of the CITIZENS of Israel are Muslim. And about 8% (IIRC) are various Christian denominations. So those 2 NON-JEWISH factions are ALMOST as large as the "ultra-orthodox" Jewish faction. Furthermore, 33% of ALL the ultra orthodox live in Jerusalem, where the Post is based.

So grouping the results in this poll by orthodoxy are NOT percentage of Israelis who harbor ANY bias towards Arabs. To get to THAT conclusion, you'd have to "normalize" the results as given to the SIZE of those religious denominations in Israel..

For instance, from your article --

“Most Jews are better than most non-Jews because they were born Jews.”

Among the 52% who said the statement was “totally true” or “pretty true,” 66% identified as ultra-Orthodox, 45% identified as religious Zionists and 13% as identified as traditionally observant. In stark contrast, only 7.1% of Israelis who identified as secular said they supported the statement.

This is a very confusing and scientifically sloppy statement. Because the percentages given add to 131%. So there's something "not kosher" with that statement. Largely it's because it's not a strict classification by RELIGIOUS affiliation. They mixed religious affiliation with "Zionist zeal". And there are plenty of "near secular Jews" with Zionist tendencies.

But even after tossing out the class that doesn't match the others (Zionism) -- That 66% of ultra orthodox being only 20% (or so) of the Israeli population represents only 13% of all Israeli Jews. That's a different story entirely -- aint it?

That's not even about Arab bias actually. It's just a statement about the cultural comparisons of the better life that exists in a relatively free and tolerant Israel -- versus the general Arab state of affairs in the Mid East. Israel is a place where you can have a Gay parade and not be mowed down in the streets. Or HAVE "the other" represented in your Congress.


Then there's a bunch of "weak" statements that appear to be racist indictments.

Seventy-four percent of respondents said they get at least a little disturbed by hearing conversation in Arabic in public.

Another 88% of respondents said they would be disturbed to some degree if their son were to befriend an Arab girl. The number climbed to 90% when respondents were asked about their daughter befriending an Arab boy.

"a little disturbed"??? "disturbed to some degree"?? These are not foaming at the mouth hatred of any one. And you would get HIGHER numbers in Paris from Parisians who hear folks not speaking French. And they would be GREATLY disturbed. Or in America those numbers about "befriending an Arab" would probably be similar --- wouldn't they?

That's because polls are only as good as the questions they ask. And the RESULTS are generally culled to "write a predefined story"... For instance -- that question about your kid "befriending an Arab" COULD HAVE BEEN asked by asking ---

If you're son was to befriend an Arab girl -- would you be ____ ???

1) Not disturbed at all
2) A little disturbed
3) Moderately disturbed
4) Greatly disturbed.

Right from the book on "how to lie with statistics" -- this is an example of only presenting a highly biased "cut-off" point for the analysis. By just excluding the folks on the measurement scale who are "not disturbed at all", you've biased the analysis. It doesn't really measure much at all. Does it? It bundles everyone with even a TWINGE of bias with folks who have serious Arab bias issues.

Using those 4 answer choices I gave, and making the cut-off point at "Moderately Disturbed or greater" -- would have represented a MUCH BETTER and mathematically sound measure of Israeli bias against Arabs. MAYBE they polled BOTH ways. And when they did not get the story they wanted. They backed off to asking ONLY if they would be " a little disturbed" or MORE. I'm a little disturbed when my daughter dates a raging snowflake. No Actually -- I'm "greatly disturbed"..

Sorry for the lecture. But the public is preyed on constantly with statistics and polls. And it angers me when the analysis they WRITE is not true to the data or maliciously manipulated. THINK when they toss the basket of numbers at you. Just don't resort to conclusions without at least asking some questions of how the "results" are presented.

And ESPECIALLY -- question the questions. Because the way they are phrased are OFTEN USED to ACHIEVE some preconceived notion for a story line.

 

[Shusha]

This thread is merely an attempt to minimize anti-semitism and reduce it to the same sort of discrimination and othering that is common everywhere in the world and in all societies. It is not anti-semitism has unique features and a unique ability to pass from culture to culture and exist through millennia.

There is no equivalence in the relationship between Europeans and their Jews, which has been absent any sort of conflict or animosity for centuries and the relationship between Jews and their Arab neighbors which is defined by the conflict. The former is an unreasonable hatred and hostility; the latter is a response to a very real threat.

And of course it has to do with the conflict. Don't be ridiculous. You can't just remove the conflict from the game and pretend it doesn't influence people. Once you've heard comments like, "rip the hearts out of the apes and pigs Jews", you just can't unhear them. Not through the lens of thousands of years of persecution and genocide.

Oh brother. So in other words Jews are incapable of bigotry and stand far above the other groups who relentlessly hate, persecute, discriminate against others? I had no idea they incapable of such attitudes. Clearly the poll got it all wrong and these bigotries are entirely do to conflict and not the cultural attitudes that afflict other human groups. (Sarcasm alert).

Othering is othering. The only difference is that as a minority, the Jewish people have not had any power to act on it like other cultures except in Israel. Now this again is where it seems like we get into the appearance of Israel can do no wrong, the Jewish people can do no wrong, and to say otherwise, such as to talk about anti-Arab discrimination and bigotry in Israel, turns into accusations of anti-semitism for discussing it.

Could you be any more disingenuous?

Step 1. You try to make equivalent anti-semitism with ALL "othering", as though the Jewish experience in the world is normal to all cultures.

Step 2. I reply that anti-semtism is unique. That it is millennia old. That is transfers from culture to culture and over time. That the Jewish people can not help but view the world through the lens of thousands of years of persecution, pogroms, oppression and both cultural and literal genocide. And through the lens of the complex on-going conflict.

Step 3. You claim I am saying that the Jews can do no wrong.


That is not at ALL what I said. And if you can't see the difference between what I actually said, and "Jews can do no wrong" you are no better than Penny, no matter how sophisticated your arguments appear.

 

[Olde Europe]

For instance, from your article --

“Most Jews are better than most non-Jews because they were born Jews.”

Among the 52% who said the statement was “totally true” or “pretty true,” 66% identified as ultra-Orthodox, 45% identified as religious Zionists and 13% as identified as traditionally observant. In stark contrast, only 7.1% of Israelis who identified as secular said they supported the statement.

This is a very confusing and scientifically sloppy statement. Because the percentages given add to 131%. So there's something "not kosher" with that statement. Largely it's because it's not a strict classification by RELIGIOUS affiliation. They mixed religious affiliation with "Zionist zeal". And there are plenty of "near secular Jews" with Zionist tendencies.

That's neither confusing nor scientifically sloppy. It just says that both religious bigotry and zionist zeal go along well with racism. As these two groups overlap - folks can be religious zealots and Zionists at the same time, you know? - you can add up the figures if you so wish. Folks with some, any background in statistics would much rather not.

 

[Mindful]

Guess what:

Zionism ended on May 14, 1948.

Why keep pushing this buzz word for Jews?

Anti Semitic dishonesty.

 

[Mindful]

The only difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims is that the latter have long held a huge majority with which to conduct their wars, conquests, programs and injustices. .

So THAT'S why you have a 100% track record of supporting them 100% of the time.

Thanks for explaining.

As for the silly notion that there is no difference between Jews, Christians and Muslims, you have an incredible amount to learn about the world.

Hitler defined the difference between Jew and Gentile, in a country where Jews were the most assimilated. They even celebrated Christmas, some of them. And even that didn't save them.

A visit to the Frankfurt Jewish Museum, to read the Nurenberg Laws is a salutary lesson.

 

[Mindful]

Remember this?

It turned Herzl himself into a Zionist.

 

[Mindful]

Anti Semitic caricature of Dreyfus.

A precursor of Zionism.