New paper finds Arctic was up to 12.6°C warmer than today

[SSDD]

This paper just published in Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology represents a reconstruction of temperatures in the vicinity of Bylot Island in the Canadian arctic and finds that during the Pleistocene epoch, the average temperature in that part of the world during that time period was about 11.4 decrees C warmer than today's temperatures.

ScienceDirect.com - Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology - Annually resolved temperature reconstructions from a late Pliocene?early Pleistocene polar forest on Bylot Island, Canada

Our record represents the first crossdated record of Pliocene wood. Mean annual temperatures determined in this study average − 3.4 ± 3.8 °C, which is 11.4 ± 4.4 °C warmer than present-day Bylot Island (− 14.8 ± 2.2 °C). June–July temperatures average 13.5 ± 1.1 °C, approximately 12.6 ± 1.6 °C warmer than present-day.

And before you cut and paste wonks start singing your chorus about how different the world was during that time, here is some material for you on the Pleistocene epoch from one of your trusted sources. It is easily understood (lots of pretty pictures) and should put your mind to rest and show you that the world wasn't so much different then than it is today.

BBC Nature - Pliocene epoch videos, news and facts

As you can see, the world then, was much like the world today except it wasn't cold. Contrary to the present claims being made by the chicken littles of the world, a small temperature change will not end life on earth as we know it. Life seems to have been thriving during that period before the ice age came and wrecked the good life for everyone.

It does make one wonder why you warmers are so terrified of getting out of the present ice age and back to a global temperature that is actually good for life on earth and more importantly what would ever give you the idea that we could possibly have anything to do with, or in any way delay the earth going back to its more normal state. For most of earth's history with the exception of a few ice ages, the earth has been a good deal warmer than the present and life has thrived during those warm periods.

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[Dubya]

This paper just published in Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology represents a reconstruction of temperatures in the vicinity of Bylot Island in the Canadian arctic and finds that during the Pleistocene epoch, the average temperature in that part of the world during that time period was about 11.4 decrees C warmer than today's temperatures.

ScienceDirect.com - Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology - Annually resolved temperature reconstructions from a late Pliocene?early Pleistocene polar forest on Bylot Island, Canada

Our record represents the first crossdated record of Pliocene wood. Mean annual temperatures determined in this study average − 3.4 ± 3.8 °C, which is 11.4 ± 4.4 °C warmer than present-day Bylot Island (− 14.8 ± 2.2 °C). June–July temperatures average 13.5 ± 1.1 °C, approximately 12.6 ± 1.6 °C warmer than present-day.

And before you cut and paste wonks start singing your chorus about how different the world was during that time, here is some material for you on the Pleistocene epoch from one of your trusted sources. It is easily understood (lots of pretty pictures) and should put your mind to rest and show you that the world wasn't so much different then than it is today.

BBC Nature - Pliocene epoch videos, news and facts

As you can see, the world then, was much like the world today except it wasn't cold. Contrary to the present claims being made by the chicken littles of the world, a small temperature change will not end life on earth as we know it. Life seems to have been thriving during that period before the ice age came and wrecked the good life for everyone.

It does make one wonder why you warmers are so terrified of getting out of the present ice age and back to a global temperature that is actually good for life on earth and more importantly what would ever give you the idea that we could possibly have anything to do with, or in any way delay the earth going back to its more normal state. For most of earth's history with the exception of a few ice ages, the earth has been a good deal warmer than the present and life has thrived during those warm periods.

I'm not even going to listen to a FOOL.

Here is the best site I know:

Arctic Sea Ice

Good luck about being an idiot!

 

[SSDD]

I'm not even going to listen to a FOOL.

Here is the best site I know:

Arctic Sea Ice

Good luck about being an idiot!

You think the Pleistocene epoch never happened? You think the world has always existed in an ice age of one depth or another?

And again, don't worry about the name calling....it is a well known and understood psychological defense. It represents a magical attack against someone to whom you feel inferior. No offense taken....in fact, folks like you and rocks, and rolling thunder actually flatter us skeptics a bit with the constance and vehemence of your name calling.

 

[Old Rocks]

If the present rapid warming were stretched out over a few thousand years, it would not be a problem. However, rapid warming or cooling in a very short period in a world with 7 billion people in it does represent a problem. A problem, as we are seeing right now, with agriculture, and a problem with infrastructure that is too close to sea level.

As for warmer periods in the past, none of this existed, and when the warming and cooling occurred slowly, no problem, when it occurred rapidly, there were extinction periods.

 

[ScienceRocks]

A few things to consider
1# The earths axisial tilt was more towards the poles
2# the equator was mostly cooler then today(James Hansen)

 

[Old Rocks]

And at that time, the isthmus of Panama had not completely closed. So there was a differant ocean circulation pattern.

 

[SSDD]

If the present rapid warming were stretched out over a few thousand years, it would not be a problem.

There is no present rapid warming. Your death grip on that bit of misinformation is sad to watch.

 

[SSDD]

And at that time, the isthmus of Panama had not completely closed. So there was a differant ocean circulation pattern.

Check again. From the link I provided:

The Pliocene world looked very similar to Earth today as North and South America had been drifting ever closer and the gap between them was sealed in this epoch.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If the present rapid warming were stretched out over a few thousand years, it would not be a problem. However, rapid warming or cooling in a very short period in a world with 7 billion people in it does represent a problem. A problem, as we are seeing right now, with agriculture, and a problem with infrastructure that is too close to sea level.

As for warmer periods in the past, none of this existed, and when the warming and cooling occurred slowly, no problem, when it occurred rapidly, there were extinction periods.

8 degree warming in a few thousand years

 

[SSDD]

8 degree warming in a few thousand years

He seems to have a skewed idea of what the word "rapid" means.

 

[uscitizen]

But the world is only 5,000 years old!

 

[Foxfyre]

We have not had the capability to study warming and cooling in the arctic for a long enough time to KNOW whether rapid warming or cooling has or has not occurred in the past, multiple times or once.

We have had capability to measure ice coverage at either pole or anywhere else on Earth for fewer than 40 years. That is insufficient time to draw any conclusions for periods longer than that fewer than 40 years.

Based on logs of merchant ships and fishing trawlers spanning much longer periods, we know there has been extensive ice melt in the arctic long before fossil fuels could have caused any problems. The hard core AGW folks don't want to even look at, much less consider that as valid.

And all competent scientists agree that there have been periods in the climatology record when the Earth was significantly warmer than it is now.

It is something we should continue to study. But we know far too little about it at this time to conclude that anthropological global warming is a serious enough problem so that we all should lose many of our choices, options, opportunities, and other freedoms to combat what is likely to be a normal climate cycle.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We have not had the capability to study warming and cooling in the arctic for a long enough time to KNOW whether rapid warming or cooling has or has not occurred in the past, multiple times or once.

We have had capability to measure ice coverage at either pole or anywhere else on Earth for fewer than 40 years. That is insufficient time to draw any conclusions for periods longer than that fewer than 40 years.

Based on logs of merchant ships and fishing trawlers spanning much longer periods, we know there has been extensive ice melt in the arctic long before fossil fuels could have caused any problems. The hard core AGW folks don't want to even look at, much less consider that as valid.

And all competent scientists agree that there have been periods in the climatology record when the Earth was significantly warmer than it is now.

It is something we should continue to study. But we know far too little about it at this time to conclude that anthropological global warming is a serious enough problem so that we all should lose many of our choices, options, opportunities, and other freedoms to combat what is likely to be a normal climate cycle.

...all we know for certain is that our computer models tell us that an additional wisp of CO2 is causing the ice caps to melt and China to freeze

 

[Foxfyre]

We have not had the capability to study warming and cooling in the arctic for a long enough time to KNOW whether rapid warming or cooling has or has not occurred in the past, multiple times or once.

We have had capability to measure ice coverage at either pole or anywhere else on Earth for fewer than 40 years. That is insufficient time to draw any conclusions for periods longer than that fewer than 40 years.

Based on logs of merchant ships and fishing trawlers spanning much longer periods, we know there has been extensive ice melt in the arctic long before fossil fuels could have caused any problems. The hard core AGW folks don't want to even look at, much less consider that as valid.

And all competent scientists agree that there have been periods in the climatology record when the Earth was significantly warmer than it is now.

It is something we should continue to study. But we know far too little about it at this time to conclude that anthropological global warming is a serious enough problem so that we all should lose many of our choices, options, opportunities, and other freedoms to combat what is likely to be a normal climate cycle.

...all we know for certain is that our computer models tell us that an additional wisp of CO2 is causing the ice caps to melt and China to freeze

Yes. Those same computer models that cannot input KNOWN conditions over the centuries and produce an accurate prediction for the climate we now have. And we have all those inconvenient leaks telling us that at least some of the data that would tend to discredit or call AGW into question was omitted and/or altered in what was released to the media and organizations in charge of the investigation.

The true believers may be absolutely sincere and convinced of the accuracy of their findings. But the healthy skeptic also realizes that at least some believers have very strong political or economic motives for generating a certain point of view. And we also need to acknowledge how easily some want to buy into the assigned script and strongly resist any challenge, however legitimate, to that script.

Also the true skeptics may be absolutely sincere and convinced of the reasonableness for their skepticism. And it would be foolish to not allow for the possibility that some of their motivations are also political and/or guided by economics.

The only way to arrive at truth whether it be practical truth or scientific truth or historical truth is to approach any subject with an open mind and a willingness to be informed of the truth rather than simply have a preferred point of view validated.

And I for one want to be convinced far more than I currently am that AGW is a serious problem before giving up my personal freedoms, choices, options, and opportunities that some AGW proponents expect us to sacrifice on the altar of the AGW gods.

 

[Dubya]

This paper just published in Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology represents a reconstruction of temperatures in the vicinity of Bylot Island in the Canadian arctic and finds that during the Pleistocene epoch, the average temperature in that part of the world during that time period was about 11.4 decrees C warmer than today's temperatures.

ScienceDirect.com - Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology - Annually resolved temperature reconstructions from a late Pliocene?early Pleistocene polar forest on Bylot Island, Canada

Our record represents the first crossdated record of Pliocene wood. Mean annual temperatures determined in this study average − 3.4 ± 3.8 °C, which is 11.4 ± 4.4 °C warmer than present-day Bylot Island (− 14.8 ± 2.2 °C). June–July temperatures average 13.5 ± 1.1 °C, approximately 12.6 ± 1.6 °C warmer than present-day.

And before you cut and paste wonks start singing your chorus about how different the world was during that time, here is some material for you on the Pleistocene epoch from one of your trusted sources. It is easily understood (lots of pretty pictures) and should put your mind to rest and show you that the world wasn't so much different then than it is today.

BBC Nature - Pliocene epoch videos, news and facts

As you can see, the world then, was much like the world today except it wasn't cold. Contrary to the present claims being made by the chicken littles of the world, a small temperature change will not end life on earth as we know it. Life seems to have been thriving during that period before the ice age came and wrecked the good life for everyone.

It does make one wonder why you warmers are so terrified of getting out of the present ice age and back to a global temperature that is actually good for life on earth and more importantly what would ever give you the idea that we could possibly have anything to do with, or in any way delay the earth going back to its more normal state. For most of earth's history with the exception of a few ice ages, the earth has been a good deal warmer than the present and life has thrived during those warm periods.

Are there enough brains in your head to figure out we can determine if sea ice existed in the past?

How do we do that?

 

[westwall]

This paper just published in Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology represents a reconstruction of temperatures in the vicinity of Bylot Island in the Canadian arctic and finds that during the Pleistocene epoch, the average temperature in that part of the world during that time period was about 11.4 decrees C warmer than today's temperatures.

ScienceDirect.com - Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology - Annually resolved temperature reconstructions from a late Pliocene?early Pleistocene polar forest on Bylot Island, Canada

Our record represents the first crossdated record of Pliocene wood. Mean annual temperatures determined in this study average − 3.4 ± 3.8 °C, which is 11.4 ± 4.4 °C warmer than present-day Bylot Island (− 14.8 ± 2.2 °C). June–July temperatures average 13.5 ± 1.1 °C, approximately 12.6 ± 1.6 °C warmer than present-day.

And before you cut and paste wonks start singing your chorus about how different the world was during that time, here is some material for you on the Pleistocene epoch from one of your trusted sources. It is easily understood (lots of pretty pictures) and should put your mind to rest and show you that the world wasn't so much different then than it is today.

BBC Nature - Pliocene epoch videos, news and facts

As you can see, the world then, was much like the world today except it wasn't cold. Contrary to the present claims being made by the chicken littles of the world, a small temperature change will not end life on earth as we know it. Life seems to have been thriving during that period before the ice age came and wrecked the good life for everyone.

It does make one wonder why you warmers are so terrified of getting out of the present ice age and back to a global temperature that is actually good for life on earth and more importantly what would ever give you the idea that we could possibly have anything to do with, or in any way delay the earth going back to its more normal state. For most of earth's history with the exception of a few ice ages, the earth has been a good deal warmer than the present and life has thrived during those warm periods.

They're not terrified of it getting warmer they are terrified that their gravy train will turn off when the public figures out that a one degree rise would actually be good for the planet. Hell a three degree rise would be outstanding!

 

[Dubya]

This paper just published in Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology represents a reconstruction of temperatures in the vicinity of Bylot Island in the Canadian arctic and finds that during the Pleistocene epoch, the average temperature in that part of the world during that time period was about 11.4 decrees C warmer than today's temperatures.

ScienceDirect.com - Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology - Annually resolved temperature reconstructions from a late Pliocene?early Pleistocene polar forest on Bylot Island, Canada

Our record represents the first crossdated record of Pliocene wood. Mean annual temperatures determined in this study average − 3.4 ± 3.8 °C, which is 11.4 ± 4.4 °C warmer than present-day Bylot Island (− 14.8 ± 2.2 °C). June–July temperatures average 13.5 ± 1.1 °C, approximately 12.6 ± 1.6 °C warmer than present-day.

And before you cut and paste wonks start singing your chorus about how different the world was during that time, here is some material for you on the Pleistocene epoch from one of your trusted sources. It is easily understood (lots of pretty pictures) and should put your mind to rest and show you that the world wasn't so much different then than it is today.

BBC Nature - Pliocene epoch videos, news and facts

As you can see, the world then, was much like the world today except it wasn't cold. Contrary to the present claims being made by the chicken littles of the world, a small temperature change will not end life on earth as we know it. Life seems to have been thriving during that period before the ice age came and wrecked the good life for everyone.

It does make one wonder why you warmers are so terrified of getting out of the present ice age and back to a global temperature that is actually good for life on earth and more importantly what would ever give you the idea that we could possibly have anything to do with, or in any way delay the earth going back to its more normal state. For most of earth's history with the exception of a few ice ages, the earth has been a good deal warmer than the present and life has thrived during those warm periods.

They're not terrified of it getting warmer they are terrified that their gravy train will turn off when the public figures out that a one degree rise would actually be good for the planet. Hell a three degree rise would be outstanding!

Take a look at the past! I'll be dead and gone before this shit happens, unless it's a miracle. It doesn't bother me if people think what will happen is beyond their lifetime. I don't think it is.

Remember that responsibity lesson conservatives like to preach! I am a responsible person and I don't hurt the innocent people or animals of Earth. I'm a kind person.

 

[SSDD]

Are there enough brains in your head to figure out we can determine if sea ice existed in the past?

Of course we know whether sea ice existed in the past and we know that for the bulk of earth's history, there has been none at one, or both of the poles. Historically speaking, water, in its solid form is an anomoly on earth.

 

[SSDD]

Take a look at the past! I'll be dead and gone before this shit happens, unless it's a miracle. It doesn't bother me if people think what will happen is beyond their lifetime. I don't think it is.

I have taken a good long hard look at the past and that is exactly why I find warmists to be absolutely rediculous. You carry on as if a few degrees of temperature increase is going to destroy life on earth when for most of earth's history, it has been considerably more than a few degrees warmer than the present.

Take a look at this very simple temperature history of the earth and then tell me exactly why you fear warming that warming is going to destroy life on earth and more importantly in the grand cycle of things, how in the hell you believe we can, in any way, interfere with the cycles of the earth?

Remember that responsibity lesson conservatives like to preach! I am a responsible person and I don't hurt the innocent people or animals of Earth. I'm a kind person.

But you do hurt the innocent people of the earth. More bodies can heaped up at the alter of liberal and enviornmentalist thinking than from all the wars humanity has ever experienced.

You and yours leave a wake of carnage behind you and somehow remain completely oblivious to it...or perhaps you just don't care and view the wake of death behind you as simply collataral damage, unimportant ...simply a means to an end.