New Mortgage Bailout Program: Stuck on Stupid.

[Neotrotsky]

stupid is all the left has to offer

 

[JoeB131]

Huh? WTF you talking about, LeRoy?
Newsflash: Not every borrower is you. Plenty of them bought way too much house because they thought overtime would continue forever. And banks thought increasing property values would continue forever.
Some banks got bailed out because they posed "systemic risk." Does your default on your mortgage pose systemic risk? No. Therefore you don't get one.

Well, actually, it does. Foreclosures continue to depress the market, moron.

Going back to my own example, I paid 96K for my condo in 2004. I was offered as much as 120K for it in 2006. Now after the foreclosures, there are comparable units being sold for as little as 57K.

 

[The Rabbi]

Huh? WTF you talking about, LeRoy?
Newsflash: Not every borrower is you. Plenty of them bought way too much house because they thought overtime would continue forever. And banks thought increasing property values would continue forever.
Some banks got bailed out because they posed "systemic risk." Does your default on your mortgage pose systemic risk? No. Therefore you don't get one.

Well, actually, it does. Foreclosures continue to depress the market, moron.

Going back to my own example, I paid 96K for my condo in 2004. I was offered as much as 120K for it in 2006. Now after the foreclosures, there are comparable units being sold for as little as 57K.

Tissue?
These programs are keeping owners in units they cannot afford. That is what is depressing the market. Let the banks foreclose, clear the markets, and housing will recovery, driving the economy.

 

[editec]

MudWhistle opines

This merely lowers your payment but if the economy turns around in the next couple of years people that are underwater will discover that if they had waited they would have equity in their homes and 20 years less in payments if they had just stuck it out. They were already making their payments. Getting out of debt is more important.

Instead the bank will own their home longer making retirement impossible for 30 years.

All Federal insurable loans can be repaid early without adding fines or additional fees.


If people disover that that they can pay off their loans faster, nothing stops them from doing so.

 

[JoeB131]

Huh? WTF you talking about, LeRoy?
Newsflash: Not every borrower is you. Plenty of them bought way too much house because they thought overtime would continue forever. And banks thought increasing property values would continue forever.
Some banks got bailed out because they posed "systemic risk." Does your default on your mortgage pose systemic risk? No. Therefore you don't get one.

Well, actually, it does. Foreclosures continue to depress the market, moron.

Going back to my own example, I paid 96K for my condo in 2004. I was offered as much as 120K for it in 2006. Now after the foreclosures, there are comparable units being sold for as little as 57K.

Tissue?
These programs are keeping owners in units they cannot afford. That is what is depressing the market. Let the banks foreclose, clear the markets, and housing will recovery, driving the economy.

Yeah, fuck working people. Someone needs a new polo pony.

And you wonder why you keep losing elections...

 

[Listening]

Huh? WTF you talking about, LeRoy?
Newsflash: Not every borrower is you. Plenty of them bought way too much house because they thought overtime would continue forever. And banks thought increasing property values would continue forever.
Some banks got bailed out because they posed "systemic risk." Does your default on your mortgage pose systemic risk? No. Therefore you don't get one.

Well, actually, it does. Foreclosures continue to depress the market, moron.

Going back to my own example, I paid 96K for my condo in 2004. I was offered as much as 120K for it in 2006. Now after the foreclosures, there are comparable units being sold for as little as 57K.

Wow.

People are getting a good deal on these condos. Why would I want to pay 96 if I could pay 57K ?

The market is correcting. Foreclosures are part of the correction.

In Mesa, AZ, you can get housing for the same price as it was selling 25 years ago. This after the same property was worth 2.5 times as much 5 years ago.

That's life.

But you want the government to protect your investment all the while making it more expensive for someone else to jump in. My guess is that they would not agree with you.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, actually, it does. Foreclosures continue to depress the market, moron.

Going back to my own example, I paid 96K for my condo in 2004. I was offered as much as 120K for it in 2006. Now after the foreclosures, there are comparable units being sold for as little as 57K.

Tissue?
These programs are keeping owners in units they cannot afford. That is what is depressing the market. Let the banks foreclose, clear the markets, and housing will recovery, driving the economy.

Yeah, fuck working people. Someone needs a new polo pony.

And you wonder why you keep losing elections...

Your leftism is showing again.
Working people save money to buy a house. They can do that much easier in a depressed housing market where their dollars go further than an inflated market where rich builders--the kind of people you hate to see do well--make a killing.
The GOP has won the majority of elections since '08.

 

[Zoom-boing]

No, his response was spot on. You don't have the slightest fucking clue what you are talking about. It wont cost anything because all they are doing is lowering the rate? Hello? What planet do you live on, that lowering an interest rate is cost-free?
And if people are current on their mortgages, no late payments, then obviously they can afford the mortgage. What is lowering their payment going to do?

Wait . . . people refinance all the time to get a lower rate. If it ends up costing the bank (?) then why do they do it?

I think this program is directed at people who, while not in foreclosure, are struggling to meet their monthly mortgage payments. If they refinance at a lower rate their monthly payment will be lower. The gov't believes the homeowners will then take that extra savings and spend it, thus helping to spur the economy. Problem is, the folks who are struggling to pay their mortgage are likely cash-strapped due to loss of one spouse's income or a pay cut (which is why they're struggling) and any money saved will likely be spent on basics. It will also help prevent them from going into foreclosure if they are close to the edge. That's my understanding of it anyway.

Banks do it because the borrower can refinance any time, subject to any prepayment agreement in the original mortgage.

Then what did you mean by "What planet do you live on, that lowering an interest rate is cost-free"?

If they are strugglign then they will not go and spend the extra money. They will use it to pay down other bills. This was the experience with the rebate checks sent out.

Completely agree.

Obviously people are not struggling because they have to be current on their mortgage with no delinquencies in 6 months.

Just because they are current on their mortgage payments doesn't mean they aren't struggling to make those payments. I think the idea behind this program is to keep those folks who are 'on the edge' of possibly not being able to meet their mortgage payments from going over the edge into foreclosure, as well as the gov't thinks they will spend that extra money saved.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, his response was spot on. You don't have the slightest fucking clue what you are talking about. It wont cost anything because all they are doing is lowering the rate? Hello? What planet do you live on, that lowering an interest rate is cost-free?
And if people are current on their mortgages, no late payments, then obviously they can afford the mortgage. What is lowering their payment going to do?

Wait . . . people refinance all the time to get a lower rate. If it ends up costing the bank (?) then why do they do it?

I think this program is directed at people who, while not in foreclosure, are struggling to meet their monthly mortgage payments. If they refinance at a lower rate their monthly payment will be lower. The gov't believes the homeowners will then take that extra savings and spend it, thus helping to spur the economy. Problem is, the folks who are struggling to pay their mortgage are likely cash-strapped due to loss of one spouse's income or a pay cut (which is why they're struggling) and any money saved will likely be spent on basics. It will also help prevent them from going into foreclosure if they are close to the edge. That's my understanding of it anyway.

Then what did you mean by "What planet do you live on, that lowering an interest rate is cost-free"?

If they are strugglign then they will not go and spend the extra money. They will use it to pay down other bills. This was the experience with the rebate checks sent out.

Completely agree.

Obviously people are not struggling because they have to be current on their mortgage with no delinquencies in 6 months.

Just because they are current on their mortgage payments doesn't mean they aren't struggling to make those payments. I think the idea behind this program is to keep those folks who are 'on the edge' of possibly not being able to meet their mortgage payments from going over the edge into foreclosure, as well as the gov't thinks they will spend that extra money saved.

If the mortgage holder is receiving payments, he is getting a return on his investment. If you reduce his payments, then he is getting less return. IOW, it costs him money to reduce the rate on his loan. On what planet is that not the case, other than Planet Left?

Early refinancing costs banks (and it's lav davka banks. Any mortgage holder) money. They do it because the borrower is entitled to do it and they are bound by contract to allow it.
If people are consistently making their mortgage then how do you distinguish people "on the edge" from people comfortably making it? And wouldn't we rather help people really struggling than people making it, assuming we wanted to do that at all?

 

[GHook93]

You are wrong on this. My company held a conference on this plan this mourning. What they are seeking to do is allow high credit score individuals, with income to cover their debts, assets in the bank and not late on their mortgage, but are underwater in their home to take advantage of the historically low rates.

Sometimes Obama gets it right, like the cash for clunkers program (it created a rebound in an auto industry on life support, to which the auto industry has looked back on). This is one of them. He needed to address credit worthy borrowers who are underwater and allow them to get the 3.5% rates!

You might not like all he does, but give credit where it's due.

 

[The Rabbi]

You are wrong on this. My company held a conference on this plan this mourning. What they are seeking to do is allow high credit score individuals, with income to cover their debts, assets in the bank and not late on their mortgage, but are underwater in their home to take advantage of the historically low rates.

Sometimes Obama gets it right, like the cash for clunkers program (it created a rebound in an auto industry on life support, to which the auto industry has looked back on). This is one of them. He needed to address credit worthy borrowers who are underwater and allow them to get the 3.5% rates!

You might not like all he does, but give credit where it's due.

You're fucking kidding, right?
Why in the hell should we taxpayers subsidize people who are in good financial shape, can afford to pay their mortgage, but happen to be underwater on their homes? That is even stupider than what I thought he was doing. Every person who buys a house under FhA starts off underwater on his home because the downpayment is so minimal. So what? You stay in it long enough you pay down the mortgage and/or the value goes up and eventually you come out OK.
That is just outrageous.

As for cash for clunkers, it is another stupid idiotic program that did nothing but cause trouble. It did not revitalize the car market. The opposite. It robbed demand from the future (people were going to buy a car anyway) and destroyed a bunch of very serviceable used cars that would have been the bread and butter of used car dealers. Sales of new cars are up because there aren't many used ones on the market so the price of a used one isn't that different from a new one. Dealers got jacked for months before they got paid on the program. It didn't do anything it was advertised as doing, which is typical for every stupid fucking piece of shit program that dumbass has pushed on us.

 

[Care4all]

those refinancing PAID for the bank bail outs with their tax monies, this WAS SUPPOSE to loosen up credit for them.....but it DID NOT...... our fed has also kept interest rates from the fed below normal for the banks as well....tons of cheap money out there due to our gvt......and our taxes, or our future inflation....

i have no sympathy towards the banks, who did put these people in their bind of paying for homes that are now under water.....due to the bank's poor business practices during the housing boom.

lowering their rate puts more money in to the hands of the consumer, the economy would pick up.

and since these people that were hurt by this crisis, had nothing to do with it, the banks should refi them without the gvt pushing them to, but apparently the banks aren't loaning it to these qualified borrowers on their own? why is that...?

 

[The Rabbi]

those refinancing PAID for the bank bail outs with their tax monies, this WAS SUPPOSE to loosen up credit for them.....but it DID NOT...... our fed has also kept interest rates from the fed below normal for the banks as well....tons of cheap money out there due to our gvt......and our taxes, or our future inflation....

i have no sympathy towards the banks, who did put these people in their bind of paying for homes that are now under water.....due to the bank's poor business practices during the housing boom.

lowering their rate puts more money in to the hands of the consumer, the economy would pick up.

and since these people that were hurt by this crisis, had nothing to do with it, the banks should refi them without the gvt pushing them to, but apparently the banks aren't loaning it to these qualified borrowers on their own? why is that...?

Zero interest rates. payroll tax cuts. Cash for Clunkers. Shovel ready jobs.
All of these were supposed to "put money in the hands of the consumers" and lift the economy. The verdict is that entire approach is a gross failure.
Why should we continue with the same failed programs?

 

[The Rabbi]

Here we go again. Why is Obama rolling out yet another soon-to-fail program to protect people from their own stupidity? I know the answer: the election is next year. But seriously. Will this guy ever get around to governing, like for real?
Obama to Announce New Program to Help Struggling Homeowners | ABC News - Yahoo! News
Note the requirements:

While administration officials say it will help thousands of homeowners, the program has its caveats. Only those homeowners whose mortgages are backed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will be eligible for refinancing. They must have good credit and must have kept up with their mortgage payments, with no late payment in the past six months and no more than one late payment in the past 12 months. Additionally, the mortgage must have been sold to the agencies before May 31, 2009, and not been refinanced previously under the Home Affordable Refinance Program. The loan-to-value ratio has to be greater than 80 percent.

Now, if their mortgages are current with one late payment in the last 12 months, why in the hell do they need help to begin with? And since 80% of people enrolled in these programs end up foreclosed on anyway, why are we continuing to pour money into this?

its voluntary for banks to do it.

You believe the gov't when it says it's voluntary? You're a bigger fool than I thought.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Here we go again. Why is Obama rolling out yet another soon-to-fail program to protect people from their own stupidity? I know the answer: the election is next year. But seriously. Will this guy ever get around to governing, like for real?
Obama to Announce New Program to Help Struggling Homeowners | ABC News - Yahoo! News
Note the requirements:

While administration officials say it will help thousands of homeowners, the program has its caveats. Only those homeowners whose mortgages are backed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will be eligible for refinancing. They must have good credit and must have kept up with their mortgage payments, with no late payment in the past six months and no more than one late payment in the past 12 months. Additionally, the mortgage must have been sold to the agencies before May 31, 2009, and not been refinanced previously under the Home Affordable Refinance Program. The loan-to-value ratio has to be greater than 80 percent.

Now, if their mortgages are current with one late payment in the last 12 months, why in the hell do they need help to begin with? And since 80% of people enrolled in these programs end up foreclosed on anyway, why are we continuing to pour money into this?

its voluntary for banks to do it.

That's the same argument made about the banks under CRA... they (banks) didn't have to do it. This was patently dishonest as banks would have hell to pay if ANY allegation of not having a balanced mortgage portfolio was made. Don't think for second they wouldn't do this again to the banks.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Wait . . . people refinance all the time to get a lower rate. If it ends up costing the bank (?) then why do they do it?

I think this program is directed at people who, while not in foreclosure, are struggling to meet their monthly mortgage payments. If they refinance at a lower rate their monthly payment will be lower. The gov't believes the homeowners will then take that extra savings and spend it, thus helping to spur the economy. Problem is, the folks who are struggling to pay their mortgage are likely cash-strapped due to loss of one spouse's income or a pay cut (which is why they're struggling) and any money saved will likely be spent on basics. It will also help prevent them from going into foreclosure if they are close to the edge. That's my understanding of it anyway.

Then what did you mean by "What planet do you live on, that lowering an interest rate is cost-free"?

Completely agree.

Obviously people are not struggling because they have to be current on their mortgage with no delinquencies in 6 months.

Just because they are current on their mortgage payments doesn't mean they aren't struggling to make those payments. I think the idea behind this program is to keep those folks who are 'on the edge' of possibly not being able to meet their mortgage payments from going over the edge into foreclosure, as well as the gov't thinks they will spend that extra money saved.

If the mortgage holder is receiving payments, he is getting a return on his investment. If you reduce his payments, then he is getting less return. IOW, it costs him money to reduce the rate on his loan. On what planet is that not the case, other than Planet Left?

When you refinance (I know nothing about refinancing) . . . isn't the time for the loan also extended so the bank may be getting less money per month because the homeowner's mortgage rate is reduced but the bank is getting the reduced amount over a longer period of time so in the end the bank isn't really losing anything?

Early refinancing costs banks (and it's lav davka banks. Any mortgage holder) money. They do it because the borrower is entitled to do it and they are bound by contract to allow it.


If people are consistently making their mortgage then how do you distinguish people "on the edge" from people comfortably making it? And wouldn't we rather help people really struggling than people making it, assuming we wanted to do that at all?

Don't know . . . . case by case? I do know that there a lots of folks who did it all by the books and are in a balancing act trying to pay the mortgage and provide the basics. They may be struggling less than others but if they were given help to prevent them from going into foreclosure, wouldn't that be a good thing?

.

 

[The Rabbi]

When you refinance (I know nothing about refinancing) . . . isn't the time for the loan also extended so the bank may be getting less money per month because the homeowner's mortgage rate is reduced but the bank is getting the reduced amount over a longer period of time so in the end the bank isn't really losing anything?

Not really.
The old mortgage is paid off with money from the new mortgage. The new mortgage holder may or may not be the same one as the old mortgage holder.
The mortgage has a value based on credit quality, payment history, yield, and competing yields. If the mortgage is yielding less, then it is worth less. That is a lower-value asset than the old mortgage. A mortgage yielding 10% is worth more than one yielding 5%, other things being equal.
Most mortgages are paid off within about 7 years. When rates are dropping that figure goes to like 3-5 years.

 

[JoeB131]

Huh? WTF you talking about, LeRoy?
Newsflash: Not every borrower is you. Plenty of them bought way too much house because they thought overtime would continue forever. And banks thought increasing property values would continue forever.
Some banks got bailed out because they posed "systemic risk." Does your default on your mortgage pose systemic risk? No. Therefore you don't get one.

Well, actually, it does. Foreclosures continue to depress the market, moron.

Going back to my own example, I paid 96K for my condo in 2004. I was offered as much as 120K for it in 2006. Now after the foreclosures, there are comparable units being sold for as little as 57K.

Wow.

People are getting a good deal on these condos. Why would I want to pay 96 if I could pay 57K ?

The market is correcting. Foreclosures are part of the correction.

In Mesa, AZ, you can get housing for the same price as it was selling 25 years ago. This after the same property was worth 2.5 times as much 5 years ago.

That's life.

But you want the government to protect your investment all the while making it more expensive for someone else to jump in. My guess is that they would not agree with you.

Actually, I want the government to do that, thank you. Since the market collapse, we've had all sorts of lowlifes move into what used to be a pretty classy complex. What you call "the market adjusting" I call a few rich scumwads screwing the rest of us.

Time for an angry mob.

 

[Listening]

Actually, I want the government to do that, thank you. Since the market collapse, we've had all sorts of lowlifes move into what used to be a pretty classy complex. What you call "the market adjusting" I call a few rich scumwads screwing the rest of us.

Time for an angry mob.

Have a good time with the mob.

In Mesa, AZ, older neighborhoods are now seeing young families come out of apartments to buy houses. I suspect they don't see it the same way.

 

[RodISHI]

Huh? WTF you talking about, LeRoy?
Newsflash: Not every borrower is you. Plenty of them bought way too much house because they thought overtime would continue forever. And banks thought increasing property values would continue forever.
Some banks got bailed out because they posed "systemic risk." Does your default on your mortgage pose systemic risk? No. Therefore you don't get one.

Well, actually, it does. Foreclosures continue to depress the market, moron.

Going back to my own example, I paid 96K for my condo in 2004. I was offered as much as 120K for it in 2006. Now after the foreclosures, there are comparable units being sold for as little as 57K.

Condos have always been a losing proposition. It is liking owning an apartment. You bought into a good advertising scheme but it is still an apartment. Live and learn.