New CNN poll shows overwhelming support for Cut, Cap, and Balance

[Jarhead]

Interesting that you skipped the part about 64% of Americans being in favor of a combination of cuts AND tax increases...

As an unashamed right winger, I would accept tax increases - if they were:

1. increased for everyone, not just by demonizing other Americans, such as the 'rich'.

2. ringfenced to pay off the debt and not to provide more bullshit for special interest pork.

So you were in favor of letting the bush tax cuts expire?

Across the board?
Yes....if it will help.
But I am not convicned it is in the best interest of America to enact legislation that includes "income" as a criteria.

Now...I may be wrong.

That is what debate is about.

But as long as the dems continue to say the GOP only cares about the rich, we will never have an honest debate.

The debate should be...."are we ready to make America a country based on classes and enact legislation based on classes"

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I may not have presented my thought properly.

So let me try it this way...

I agree that it is a no brainer to tax the rich and not touch SS and medicare. Of course it is the best way to fix our debt issue without having any negative affect on those that are struggling the most....It is by far the smartest fix...and lets be real...the rich wont feel a thing.....well...most wont....(there are those that live in the NYC area that are making 200K and have a family of four and barely getting by due to the very high cost of living in the area...but that is another issue).

However...what I am saying is that before we make a move like that, we need to realize it will be changing the face of America...

And as a conservative, I dont always believe doing what appears to be the smart thing now is in the best interest of America in the long run....and sometimes we need to experience more pain to preserve our futures.

ANd please.....dont put words in my mouth...

Sure there are those that have little means due to laziness...just as there are many wealthy that are lazy and inherited what they have.

But I see most people....with or without wealth...as hard working Americans....

Well, that's good that you see that... but many of your conservative brethren don't.

How will it be changing the face of America? If ANYTHING.... the Conservative ideology of trying to practically dismantle government in favor of Big business taking over the country and making everything "for Profit" is truly changing the face of America.

Now... let's just touch on something in your post... the $200k person living in NYC. First off... what's been proposed since Obama ran for President was for people making $250k and up. Second, I would have no problem with going up to $500k or keeping the level in which increases take effect at $250k but gradually increase it up to the 4% at $500k.

Heck... it was even proposed(during the budget deal negotiations) to start the 4% at people making $1M/year. But it was opposed because those people are "job Creators"... who then, after they got what they wanted(no repeal of Bush Tax Cuts)... didn't really create any jobs anyway.

So please explain how it will "change the face of America". If anything... your side's desire to gut government to the bone and leave the Middle Class hanging is doing just that. It's just that you(may or may not) agree with that bit of plastic surgery.

Nobody's proposing ANYTHING you just suggested. Do you do any research or do you just parrot what you heard/read on left-wing outlets last evening?

Furthermore, your statement "I would have no problem with going up to $500k or keeping the level in which increases take effect at $250k but gradually increase it up to the 4% at $500k" suggests a severe level of arrogance that is at the heart of what we on the right have issues with. Frankly, who appointed YOU God insofar as having the right to determine how much money that I earn I get to keep?

Quite the tyrant aren't you? I think you need to tend to your own affairs and quit meddling in other people's pocket-books.

 

[Wry Catcher]

For some reason CNN is glossing this over. I can't imagine why.

The poll is here. (pdf)

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/07/21/rel11b.pdf

CNN covers it here.

CNN Poll: Strong partisan divide on debt ceiling – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

13 paragraphs in we see this tidbit.

Republicans like the "cut, cap, and balance" approach to the debt ceiling, as do Democrats and independents. Most Americans support a balanced budget amendment, and most, but not as many, think an amendment is necessary to get federal spending under control. A balanced budget amendment passed the House earlier this week, but a vote in the Senate is expected to fail.

What exactly does most mean here? 52%?

Not exactly.

63% of Democrats back the CCB bill passed by the House. Even people who say they oppose the Tea Party support it 53%/47%.

That means that Obama went to the people, and they listened, to the other side.

Some people may like the idea on an emotional basis, which is why we have a representative government - a republic - and do not make law and policy by referandum. Budgets, all budgets are a plan, and plans sometimes change. A balanced budget codified ties the hands of policy makers to change course when events require it.

This 'plan' is nothing more than demagouery. It is not a solution, it is a scheme put forward by radicals whose not so well hidden agenda is to privatize as much as possible - and that includes Medicare and Social Security.

 

[Jarhead]

Interesting that you skipped the part about 64% of Americans being in favor of a combination of cuts AND tax increases...

any poll regarding tax increases will always show favor to the idea seeing as 75% of the people are not negatively affected by proposed tax increases.

The US is of a mindset of "good idea but not in my backyard"

Now...if the poll said

"are you in favor of ALL Americans having to pay "x" percentage of your income to the government regardless of your income....I gurantee you those in favor would be less than 25%.

So to use that "64%" stat is disingenuous and not applicable to the debate at hand.

That tax would be mostly put on people with wealth that it would take a Normal American 100s of lifetimes to acquire.

That..in itself..should be subject to extreme investigation to figure out how that happened. And that should span generations.

Prescott Bush got busted for making deals with Hitler..but somehow managed to keep his wealth.

How?

Line in black bold.....yes...and thius why 64% are all for it. I mean....of course....As long as it doesnt have a negative affect on them...they are all for it. You shouldnt be surprised at that.

Line in red bold...it is a no brainer how it happened. People with money found ways to have their money make money for them. They made smart decisions.

The rest of your post....I am not going to address it....no offense but I find it rediculous.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

any poll regarding tax increases will always show favor to the idea seeing as 75% of the people are not negatively affected by proposed tax increases.

The US is of a mindset of "good idea but not in my backyard"

Now...if the poll said

"are you in favor of ALL Americans having to pay "x" percentage of your income to the government regardless of your income....I gurantee you those in favor would be less than 25%.

So to use that "64%" stat is disingenuous and not applicable to the debate at hand.

That tax would be mostly put on people with wealth that it would take a Normal American 100s of lifetimes to acquire.

That..in itself..should be subject to extreme investigation to figure out how that happened. And that should span generations.

Prescott Bush got busted for making deals with Hitler..but somehow managed to keep his wealth.

How?

Line in black bold.....yes...and thius why 64% are all for it. I mean....of course....As long as it doesnt have a negative affect on them...they are all for it. You shouldnt be surprised at that.

Line in red bold...it is a no brainer how it happened. People with money found ways to have their money make money for them. They made smart decisions.

The rest of your post....I am not going to address it....no offense but I find it rediculous.

These folks exist in a perpetual state of busybodiness... always fixating on what everybody else is doing, what they are earning, etc. No wonder they can't find time to work.

 

[RDD_1210]

As an unashamed right winger, I would accept tax increases - if they were:

1. increased for everyone, not just by demonizing other Americans, such as the 'rich'.

2. ringfenced to pay off the debt and not to provide more bullshit for special interest pork.

So you were in favor of letting the bush tax cuts expire?

Across the board?
Yes....if it will help.
But I am not convicned it is in the best interest of America to enact legislation that includes "income" as a criteria.

Now...I may be wrong.

That is what debate is about.

But as long as the dems continue to say the GOP only cares about the rich, we will never have an honest debate.

The debate should be...."are we ready to make America a country based on classes and enact legislation based on classes"

But look at it from a dem perspective. The only thing that never seems to be on the table is tax increases for the rich and closing corporate tax loopholes. Any talk of raising taxes and conservatives point to the "51%" who don't pay anything and ask to have taxes raises on the poor/middle class as well. This is on top of cons insisting that we cut assistance programs that the middle class/poor really heavily on. Step back and look at that and it's hard to not reach the conclusion that the GOP's top priority is protecting the rich.

And when a hypocrite like Cali-Girl starts suggesting that we should raise taxes on everyone and not just the rich, I think to myself....gee, didn't Obama try and do that by letting the Bush tax cuts expire? Maybe she was in favor of letting them expire at the time, but I have serious doubts.

 

[dilloduck]

any poll regarding tax increases will always show favor to the idea seeing as 75% of the people are not negatively affected by proposed tax increases.

The US is of a mindset of "good idea but not in my backyard"

Now...if the poll said

"are you in favor of ALL Americans having to pay "x" percentage of your income to the government regardless of your income....I gurantee you those in favor would be less than 25%.

So to use that "64%" stat is disingenuous and not applicable to the debate at hand.

That tax would be mostly put on people with wealth that it would take a Normal American 100s of lifetimes to acquire.

That..in itself..should be subject to extreme investigation to figure out how that happened. And that should span generations.

Prescott Bush got busted for making deals with Hitler..but somehow managed to keep his wealth.

How?

Line in black bold.....yes...and thius why 64% are all for it. I mean....of course....As long as it doesnt have a negative affect on them...they are all for it. You shouldnt be surprised at that.

Line in red bold...it is a no brainer how it happened. People with money found ways to have their money make money for them. They made smart decisions.

The rest of your post....I am not going to address it....no offense but I find it rediculous.

The Fed makes money out of thin air and makes it work for them.

 

[RDD_1210]

That tax would be mostly put on people with wealth that it would take a Normal American 100s of lifetimes to acquire.

That..in itself..should be subject to extreme investigation to figure out how that happened. And that should span generations.

Prescott Bush got busted for making deals with Hitler..but somehow managed to keep his wealth.

How?

Line in black bold.....yes...and thius why 64% are all for it. I mean....of course....As long as it doesnt have a negative affect on them...they are all for it. You shouldnt be surprised at that.

Line in red bold...it is a no brainer how it happened. People with money found ways to have their money make money for them. They made smart decisions.

The rest of your post....I am not going to address it....no offense but I find it rediculous.

These folks exist in a perpetual state of busybodiness... always fixating on what everybody else is doing, what they are earning, etc. No wonder they can't find time to work.

So dems don't work? Do you ever post anything constructive or useful?

 

[Jarhead]

So you were in favor of letting the bush tax cuts expire?

Across the board?
Yes....if it will help.
But I am not convicned it is in the best interest of America to enact legislation that includes "income" as a criteria.

Now...I may be wrong.

That is what debate is about.

But as long as the dems continue to say the GOP only cares about the rich, we will never have an honest debate.

The debate should be...."are we ready to make America a country based on classes and enact legislation based on classes"

But look at it from a dem perspective. The only thing that never seems to be on the table is tax increases for the rich and closing corporate tax loopholes. Any talk of raising taxes and conservatives point to the "51%" who don't pay anything and ask to have taxes raises on the poor/middle class as well. This is on top of cons insisting that we cut assistance programs that the middle class/poor really heavily on. Step back and look at that and it's hard to not reach the conclusion that the GOP's top priority is protecting the rich.

And when a hypocrite like Cali-Girl starts suggesting that we should raise taxes on everyone and not just the rich, I think to myself....gee, didn't Obama try and do that by letting the Bush tax cuts expire? Maybe she was in favor of letting them expire at the time, but I have serious doubts.

Conservatives spin as much as liberals spin...and our politicians on both sides spoin all the time.

But the bottom line is this....the GOP are not looking to protect the rich...albeit the rich are being protected.....but the truth is, they are looking to protect the integrity of "equality" as it pertains to tax legislation.....and yes, such protects the rich...but that is not what the GOP is looking at...but it is spun that way.

And Cali Girl is by no means a hypocrite. She is one of the few that isnt on here. She is passionate about what she believes in. Truith is, she AND I were both against only onbe things....the Obama proposal to contiunue the Bush cuts for the bottom 95% and discontiue them for the top 5%.

We do not agree with any type of legislation that is based on income.

That is the way conservatives believe....agree or not...it has nothing to do with rich and poor.

If there were legislation proposed to tax those UNDER 250K but not those above 250K, conservatives would be against it.....I know...such legislation would be absurd...but conservatives would be 100% against it.

 

[RDD_1210]

Across the board?
Yes....if it will help.
But I am not convicned it is in the best interest of America to enact legislation that includes "income" as a criteria.

Now...I may be wrong.

That is what debate is about.

But as long as the dems continue to say the GOP only cares about the rich, we will never have an honest debate.

The debate should be...."are we ready to make America a country based on classes and enact legislation based on classes"

But look at it from a dem perspective. The only thing that never seems to be on the table is tax increases for the rich and closing corporate tax loopholes. Any talk of raising taxes and conservatives point to the "51%" who don't pay anything and ask to have taxes raises on the poor/middle class as well. This is on top of cons insisting that we cut assistance programs that the middle class/poor really heavily on. Step back and look at that and it's hard to not reach the conclusion that the GOP's top priority is protecting the rich.

And when a hypocrite like Cali-Girl starts suggesting that we should raise taxes on everyone and not just the rich, I think to myself....gee, didn't Obama try and do that by letting the Bush tax cuts expire? Maybe she was in favor of letting them expire at the time, but I have serious doubts.

Conservatives spin as much as liberals spin...and our politicians on both sides spoin all the time.

But the bottom line is this....the GOP are not looking to protect the rich...albeit the rich are being protected.....but the truth is, they are looking to protect the integrity of "equality" as it pertains to tax legislation.....and yes, such protects the rich...but that is not what the GOP is looking at...but it is spun that way.

And Cali Girl is by no means a hypocrite. She is one of the few that isnt on here. She is passionate about what she believes in. Truith is, she AND I were both against only onbe things....the Obama proposal to contiunue the Bush cuts for the bottom 95% and discontiue them for the top 5%.

We do not agree with any type of legislation that is based on income.

That is the way conservatives believe....agree or not...it has nothing to do with rich and poor.

If there were legislation proposed to tax those UNDER 250K but not those above 250K, conservatives would be against it.....I know...such legislation would be absurd...but conservatives would be 100% against it.

You raise some good points but we'll have to disagree about Cali_Girl. She's a hypocrite to the core. She doesn't respond many times when shes called out on her hypocrisy.

Let's put it this way. If she was in favor or letting the bush tax cuts expire for everyone, all she has to do is post a link to her comments and I'll apologize. But if I were a betting man, I know where I'd be placing my money on this one.

 

[Jarhead]

But look at it from a dem perspective. The only thing that never seems to be on the table is tax increases for the rich and closing corporate tax loopholes. Any talk of raising taxes and conservatives point to the "51%" who don't pay anything and ask to have taxes raises on the poor/middle class as well. This is on top of cons insisting that we cut assistance programs that the middle class/poor really heavily on. Step back and look at that and it's hard to not reach the conclusion that the GOP's top priority is protecting the rich.

And when a hypocrite like Cali-Girl starts suggesting that we should raise taxes on everyone and not just the rich, I think to myself....gee, didn't Obama try and do that by letting the Bush tax cuts expire? Maybe she was in favor of letting them expire at the time, but I have serious doubts.

Conservatives spin as much as liberals spin...and our politicians on both sides spoin all the time.

But the bottom line is this....the GOP are not looking to protect the rich...albeit the rich are being protected.....but the truth is, they are looking to protect the integrity of "equality" as it pertains to tax legislation.....and yes, such protects the rich...but that is not what the GOP is looking at...but it is spun that way.

And Cali Girl is by no means a hypocrite. She is one of the few that isnt on here. She is passionate about what she believes in. Truith is, she AND I were both against only onbe things....the Obama proposal to contiunue the Bush cuts for the bottom 95% and discontiue them for the top 5%.

We do not agree with any type of legislation that is based on income.

That is the way conservatives believe....agree or not...it has nothing to do with rich and poor.

If there were legislation proposed to tax those UNDER 250K but not those above 250K, conservatives would be against it.....I know...such legislation would be absurd...but conservatives would be 100% against it.

You raise some good points but we'll have to disagree about Cali_Girl. She's a hypocrite to the core. She doesn't respond many times when shes called out on her hypocrisy.

Let's put it this way. If she was in favor or letting the bush tax cuts expire for everyone, all she has to do is post a link to her comments and I'll apologize. But if I were a betting man, I know where I'd be placing my money on this one.

Let me clarify...

I was against letting them expire....when that was the discussion...as I believed business owners needed them as did all Americans.

But when the discussion went to letting them expire for just one class of people...I was dead set against such a proposal...

And that was when I was out there saying "let them expoire for all or for none....but do not turn us into a caste system"..

And yes...I use the term caste system for sensationalism...

 

[Steelplate]

I may not have presented my thought properly.

So let me try it this way...

I agree that it is a no brainer to tax the rich and not touch SS and medicare. Of course it is the best way to fix our debt issue without having any negative affect on those that are struggling the most....It is by far the smartest fix...and lets be real...the rich wont feel a thing.....well...most wont....(there are those that live in the NYC area that are making 200K and have a family of four and barely getting by due to the very high cost of living in the area...but that is another issue).

However...what I am saying is that before we make a move like that, we need to realize it will be changing the face of America...

And as a conservative, I dont always believe doing what appears to be the smart thing now is in the best interest of America in the long run....and sometimes we need to experience more pain to preserve our futures.

ANd please.....dont put words in my mouth...

Sure there are those that have little means due to laziness...just as there are many wealthy that are lazy and inherited what they have.

But I see most people....with or without wealth...as hard working Americans....

Well, that's good that you see that... but many of your conservative brethren don't.

How will it be changing the face of America? If ANYTHING.... the Conservative ideology of trying to practically dismantle government in favor of Big business taking over the country and making everything "for Profit" is truly changing the face of America.

Now... let's just touch on something in your post... the $200k person living in NYC. First off... what's been proposed since Obama ran for President was for people making $250k and up. Second, I would have no problem with going up to $500k or keeping the level in which increases take effect at $250k but gradually increase it up to the 4% at $500k.

Heck... it was even proposed(during the budget deal negotiations) to start the 4% at people making $1M/year. But it was opposed because those people are "job Creators"... who then, after they got what they wanted(no repeal of Bush Tax Cuts)... didn't really create any jobs anyway.

So please explain how it will "change the face of America". If anything... your side's desire to gut government to the bone and leave the Middle Class hanging is doing just that. It's just that you(may or may not) agree with that bit of plastic surgery.

Once you enact legislation that is geared to one "class" of people, you are changing America to a "class" based democracy.

As complicated as the tax code is, it is classless...(lol...love the irony...classless is a good word for the tax code)...all have the same rights and access to the same dedcutions. Some pass on them (interest on a mortgage), some cant take advantage of then yet...but they are there for them when and if they want them and can use them.

But once you toss in "income" to define a group in a law....you are walking a very thin line....and before we do it we need to truly examine the long term negative ramificatiuons of doing so...and when you and our dem politicians spin it as "the GOP only care about the rich" we are unable to have an honest debate about it. Again...I am not saying not to do it....what I am saying is we really need to have an honest debate about it...and our politicians wont allow us to.

The 250/200 issue is up in the air....Obama has been known to toss out the 250 number, the 200 number and even the 150 number.

Reality is...when you are talking south of 300K, you MUST take into consideration geographic location.

As for the bush cuts....and it didnt work issue.....I disagree....we wont know if it will or wont work until OTHER issues are dropped or addressed such as cap and trade and helathcare. Those two issues have businesses unsure of WHAT their operating costs are going to be...I know this as fact as I am a business planner in NYC.....ALL of my clients are following the advice of "wait and see". It is irresponsible to push for growth without any knowledge of what your operating costs are going to be next year.

We are not looking to keep the midddle class hanging....but I will admit we are seeking a way to fix our debt issue with as little pain as possible...but without changing the face of America.

Please....look at the crux of the debate...not the outside spin.....the GOP are not idiots....they know the "easy and painless" fix.....but they are not convinced it will be in the bnest interest of America in the long run....as it pertains to the ideology of a conservative.

So...what you are saying is that keeping Social Security and Medicare intact(meaning no change) and letting the Bush Tax cuts expire to the wealthiest of our society is changing the face of America?

Hey.. I am all for cuts in general... I still don't know why we need to spend almost $1 Trillion dollars/year on defense(other than to keep the people that equip the military flush with money). Our nearest Competitor(china) spends a little over $100B/year on defense. Perhaps we need to stop playing world police so much. I know there are problems that we will need to get involved with from time to time.... but I think we do too much around the globe in general and significant cuts can be made in Defense.

I am all for streamlining programs... even Social Security and Medicare... but that streamlining should be done at the Administrative level and should never affect people's benefits that they have paid into their whole lives. I am for eliminating redundancy and waste in government... which happens all too often under ALL Administrations. Perhaps we need to set aside a part of our tax dollars to demand a hiring of an independent watchdog group who's only job is to find the waste... like the $500 hammers and $5000 toilets we hear about. They would have full access to our record books(except for Top Secret National Security issues) and weed out the bullshit.

Personally... As far as Health Care.. i am very much in favor of a single payer system. Our health care should not be subject to profiteering and greed. It is a basic human necessity and I think it's time we realize that. I think that there are certain aspects of our society that should never be "for profit". Health Care, the Prison System, the Military in particular.

But those things are besides the point. I think you are not looking at this situation in the right light. It seems to me that what Conservatives want is to REALLY change the face of America, wrapped in the ideology that you favor... which seems to be privatization of our government and further handing more and more over to our wealthy elite... who have very much in the recent past, have become increasingly anti-American. I don't think that philosophy is right for our country.

 

[RDD_1210]

Conservatives spin as much as liberals spin...and our politicians on both sides spoin all the time.

But the bottom line is this....the GOP are not looking to protect the rich...albeit the rich are being protected.....but the truth is, they are looking to protect the integrity of "equality" as it pertains to tax legislation.....and yes, such protects the rich...but that is not what the GOP is looking at...but it is spun that way.

And Cali Girl is by no means a hypocrite. She is one of the few that isnt on here. She is passionate about what she believes in. Truith is, she AND I were both against only onbe things....the Obama proposal to contiunue the Bush cuts for the bottom 95% and discontiue them for the top 5%.

We do not agree with any type of legislation that is based on income.

That is the way conservatives believe....agree or not...it has nothing to do with rich and poor.

If there were legislation proposed to tax those UNDER 250K but not those above 250K, conservatives would be against it.....I know...such legislation would be absurd...but conservatives would be 100% against it.

You raise some good points but we'll have to disagree about Cali_Girl. She's a hypocrite to the core. She doesn't respond many times when shes called out on her hypocrisy.

Let's put it this way. If she was in favor or letting the bush tax cuts expire for everyone, all she has to do is post a link to her comments and I'll apologize. But if I were a betting man, I know where I'd be placing my money on this one.

Let me clarify...

I was against letting them expire....when that was the discussion...as I believed business owners needed them as did all Americans.

But when the discussion went to letting them expire for just one class of people...I was dead set against such a proposal...

And that was when I was out there saying "let them expoire for all or for none....but do not turn us into a caste system"..

And yes...I use the term caste system for sensationalism...

Sure, I take you for your word. But you're not a hypocrite like some of your fellow Repubs.

 

[Liability]

we must oppose more spending as it goest to destroying islam

LOL!

If that were true (it isn't ... but IF it were), many of us could get behind going more deeply into debt -- to spend a whole lot more.

 

[Steelplate]

I may not have presented my thought properly.

So let me try it this way...

I agree that it is a no brainer to tax the rich and not touch SS and medicare. Of course it is the best way to fix our debt issue without having any negative affect on those that are struggling the most....It is by far the smartest fix...and lets be real...the rich wont feel a thing.....well...most wont....(there are those that live in the NYC area that are making 200K and have a family of four and barely getting by due to the very high cost of living in the area...but that is another issue).

However...what I am saying is that before we make a move like that, we need to realize it will be changing the face of America...

And as a conservative, I dont always believe doing what appears to be the smart thing now is in the best interest of America in the long run....and sometimes we need to experience more pain to preserve our futures.

ANd please.....dont put words in my mouth...

Sure there are those that have little means due to laziness...just as there are many wealthy that are lazy and inherited what they have.

But I see most people....with or without wealth...as hard working Americans....

Well, that's good that you see that... but many of your conservative brethren don't.

How will it be changing the face of America? If ANYTHING.... the Conservative ideology of trying to practically dismantle government in favor of Big business taking over the country and making everything "for Profit" is truly changing the face of America.

Now... let's just touch on something in your post... the $200k person living in NYC. First off... what's been proposed since Obama ran for President was for people making $250k and up. Second, I would have no problem with going up to $500k or keeping the level in which increases take effect at $250k but gradually increase it up to the 4% at $500k.

Heck... it was even proposed(during the budget deal negotiations) to start the 4% at people making $1M/year. But it was opposed because those people are "job Creators"... who then, after they got what they wanted(no repeal of Bush Tax Cuts)... didn't really create any jobs anyway.

So please explain how it will "change the face of America". If anything... your side's desire to gut government to the bone and leave the Middle Class hanging is doing just that. It's just that you(may or may not) agree with that bit of plastic surgery.

Nobody's proposing ANYTHING you just suggested. Do you do any research or do you just parrot what you heard/read on left-wing outlets last evening?

Furthermore, your statement "I would have no problem with going up to $500k or keeping the level in which increases take effect at $250k but gradually increase it up to the 4% at $500k" suggests a severe level of arrogance that is at the heart of what we on the right have issues with. Frankly, who appointed YOU God insofar as having the right to determine how much money that I earn I get to keep?

Quite the tyrant aren't you? I think you need to tend to your own affairs and quit meddling in other people's pocket-books.

Really? no one is proposing it? hell I hear it right here on this message board at least daily(and that's a conservative estimate). As far as tyranny goes... Let's see, who wants to cut Medicare and Social Security to the Bone? What about the money we earned that we put into Social Security and Medicare? Oh yeah.. fuck us. Who appointed you God insofar as FORCING us to work till we're 70(or at least making it virtually impossible not to)?

I love how when it's the vast majority of people with the least power and the least political representation.. it's OK to walk all over them. But when it's the very few who have most of the money and power...it's Tyranny.

Talk about fucked up priorities.

 

[Jarhead]

Well, that's good that you see that... but many of your conservative brethren don't.

How will it be changing the face of America? If ANYTHING.... the Conservative ideology of trying to practically dismantle government in favor of Big business taking over the country and making everything "for Profit" is truly changing the face of America.

Now... let's just touch on something in your post... the $200k person living in NYC. First off... what's been proposed since Obama ran for President was for people making $250k and up. Second, I would have no problem with going up to $500k or keeping the level in which increases take effect at $250k but gradually increase it up to the 4% at $500k.

Heck... it was even proposed(during the budget deal negotiations) to start the 4% at people making $1M/year. But it was opposed because those people are "job Creators"... who then, after they got what they wanted(no repeal of Bush Tax Cuts)... didn't really create any jobs anyway.

So please explain how it will "change the face of America". If anything... your side's desire to gut government to the bone and leave the Middle Class hanging is doing just that. It's just that you(may or may not) agree with that bit of plastic surgery.

Once you enact legislation that is geared to one "class" of people, you are changing America to a "class" based democracy.

As complicated as the tax code is, it is classless...(lol...love the irony...classless is a good word for the tax code)...all have the same rights and access to the same dedcutions. Some pass on them (interest on a mortgage), some cant take advantage of then yet...but they are there for them when and if they want them and can use them.

But once you toss in "income" to define a group in a law....you are walking a very thin line....and before we do it we need to truly examine the long term negative ramificatiuons of doing so...and when you and our dem politicians spin it as "the GOP only care about the rich" we are unable to have an honest debate about it. Again...I am not saying not to do it....what I am saying is we really need to have an honest debate about it...and our politicians wont allow us to.

The 250/200 issue is up in the air....Obama has been known to toss out the 250 number, the 200 number and even the 150 number.

Reality is...when you are talking south of 300K, you MUST take into consideration geographic location.

As for the bush cuts....and it didnt work issue.....I disagree....we wont know if it will or wont work until OTHER issues are dropped or addressed such as cap and trade and helathcare. Those two issues have businesses unsure of WHAT their operating costs are going to be...I know this as fact as I am a business planner in NYC.....ALL of my clients are following the advice of "wait and see". It is irresponsible to push for growth without any knowledge of what your operating costs are going to be next year.

We are not looking to keep the midddle class hanging....but I will admit we are seeking a way to fix our debt issue with as little pain as possible...but without changing the face of America.

Please....look at the crux of the debate...not the outside spin.....the GOP are not idiots....they know the "easy and painless" fix.....but they are not convinced it will be in the bnest interest of America in the long run....as it pertains to the ideology of a conservative.

So...what you are saying is that keeping Social Security and Medicare intact(meaning no change) and letting the Bush Tax cuts expire to the wealthiest of our society is changing the face of America?

Hey.. I am all for cuts in general... I still don't know why we need to spend almost $1 Trillion dollars/year on defense(other than to keep the people that equip the military flush with money). Our nearest Competitor(china) spends a little over $100B/year on defense. Perhaps we need to stop playing world police so much. I know there are problems that we will need to get involved with from time to time.... but I think we do too much around the globe in general and significant cuts can be made in Defense.

I am all for streamlining programs... even Social Security and Medicare... but that streamlining should be done at the Administrative level and should never affect people's benefits that they have paid into their whole lives. I am for eliminating redundancy and waste in government... which happens all too often under ALL Administrations. Perhaps we need to set aside a part of our tax dollars to demand a hiring of an independent watchdog group who's only job is to find the waste... like the $500 hammers and $5000 toilets we hear about. They would have full access to our record books(except for Top Secret National Security issues) and weed out the bullshit.

Personally... As far as Health Care.. i am very much in favor of a single payer system. Our health care should not be subject to profiteering and greed. It is a basic human necessity and I think it's time we realize that. I think that there are certain aspects of our society that should never be "for profit". Health Care, the Prison System, the Military in particular.

But those things are besides the point. I think you are not looking at this situation in the right light. It seems to me that what Conservatives want is to REALLY change the face of America, wrapped in the ideology that you favor... which seems to be privatization of our government and further handing more and more over to our wealthy elite... who have very much in the recent past, have become increasingly anti-American. I don't think that philosophy is right for our country.

I tired to explain it to you the best I could. I apologize if I am unable to articulate my point properly....but your first line makes it clear you dont understand what I am saying.

I agree with the excess spending on the military. There is way too much waste there...and I blame the Pentagon for poor administrative management and alkl administrations over the past several decades for allowing it to continue.

You are entitled to your opinion...but my ideology is by no means Anti-American and I take offense to you saying otherwise.....say you disagree, but do not refer to me as anti-American.

I tried to offer you a sound and civil debate...but I sense you are getting frustrated with me and not open to my thinking...so I deem it best we end it now.

 

[Jarhead]

You raise some good points but we'll have to disagree about Cali_Girl. She's a hypocrite to the core. She doesn't respond many times when shes called out on her hypocrisy.

Let's put it this way. If she was in favor or letting the bush tax cuts expire for everyone, all she has to do is post a link to her comments and I'll apologize. But if I were a betting man, I know where I'd be placing my money on this one.

Let me clarify...

I was against letting them expire....when that was the discussion...as I believed business owners needed them as did all Americans.

But when the discussion went to letting them expire for just one class of people...I was dead set against such a proposal...

And that was when I was out there saying "let them expoire for all or for none....but do not turn us into a caste system"..

And yes...I use the term caste system for sensationalism...

Sure, I take you for your word. But you're not a hypocrite like some of your fellow Repubs.

and you are not as some of your fellow liberals.
I am not a republican...I am a conservative who likely will vote republican....but the GOP does not get a dime from me.

 

[Steelplate]

Once you enact legislation that is geared to one "class" of people, you are changing America to a "class" based democracy.

As complicated as the tax code is, it is classless...(lol...love the irony...classless is a good word for the tax code)...all have the same rights and access to the same dedcutions. Some pass on them (interest on a mortgage), some cant take advantage of then yet...but they are there for them when and if they want them and can use them.

But once you toss in "income" to define a group in a law....you are walking a very thin line....and before we do it we need to truly examine the long term negative ramificatiuons of doing so...and when you and our dem politicians spin it as "the GOP only care about the rich" we are unable to have an honest debate about it. Again...I am not saying not to do it....what I am saying is we really need to have an honest debate about it...and our politicians wont allow us to.

The 250/200 issue is up in the air....Obama has been known to toss out the 250 number, the 200 number and even the 150 number.

Reality is...when you are talking south of 300K, you MUST take into consideration geographic location.

As for the bush cuts....and it didnt work issue.....I disagree....we wont know if it will or wont work until OTHER issues are dropped or addressed such as cap and trade and helathcare. Those two issues have businesses unsure of WHAT their operating costs are going to be...I know this as fact as I am a business planner in NYC.....ALL of my clients are following the advice of "wait and see". It is irresponsible to push for growth without any knowledge of what your operating costs are going to be next year.

We are not looking to keep the midddle class hanging....but I will admit we are seeking a way to fix our debt issue with as little pain as possible...but without changing the face of America.

Please....look at the crux of the debate...not the outside spin.....the GOP are not idiots....they know the "easy and painless" fix.....but they are not convinced it will be in the bnest interest of America in the long run....as it pertains to the ideology of a conservative.

So...what you are saying is that keeping Social Security and Medicare intact(meaning no change) and letting the Bush Tax cuts expire to the wealthiest of our society is changing the face of America?

Hey.. I am all for cuts in general... I still don't know why we need to spend almost $1 Trillion dollars/year on defense(other than to keep the people that equip the military flush with money). Our nearest Competitor(china) spends a little over $100B/year on defense. Perhaps we need to stop playing world police so much. I know there are problems that we will need to get involved with from time to time.... but I think we do too much around the globe in general and significant cuts can be made in Defense.

I am all for streamlining programs... even Social Security and Medicare... but that streamlining should be done at the Administrative level and should never affect people's benefits that they have paid into their whole lives. I am for eliminating redundancy and waste in government... which happens all too often under ALL Administrations. Perhaps we need to set aside a part of our tax dollars to demand a hiring of an independent watchdog group who's only job is to find the waste... like the $500 hammers and $5000 toilets we hear about. They would have full access to our record books(except for Top Secret National Security issues) and weed out the bullshit.

Personally... As far as Health Care.. i am very much in favor of a single payer system. Our health care should not be subject to profiteering and greed. It is a basic human necessity and I think it's time we realize that. I think that there are certain aspects of our society that should never be "for profit". Health Care, the Prison System, the Military in particular.

But those things are besides the point. I think you are not looking at this situation in the right light. It seems to me that what Conservatives want is to REALLY change the face of America, wrapped in the ideology that you favor... which seems to be privatization of our government and further handing more and more over to our wealthy elite... who have very much in the recent past, have become increasingly anti-American. I don't think that philosophy is right for our country.

I tired to explain it to you the best I could. I apologize if I am unable to articulate my point properly....but your first line makes it clear you dont understand what I am saying.

I agree with the excess spending on the military. There is way too much waste there...and I blame the Pentagon for poor administrative management and alkl administrations over the past several decades for allowing it to continue.

You are entitled to your opinion...but my ideology is by no means Anti-American and I take offense to you saying otherwise.....say you disagree, but do not refer to me as anti-American.

I tried to offer you a sound and civil debate...but I sense you are getting frustrated with me and not open to my thinking...so I deem it best we end it now.

Well... I apologize if I offended.... but if your ideology is blowing up the government and handing it over to Wall Street and Big Business, who sends more and more of our(meaning US Dollars) money to other countries and invests it there instead of here, who lobby continually for special legislation that only benefits them, that don't seem to care about our unemployment problem, that want even more power and money and influence ad nauseum? then sorry dude... that's an un-American ideology.

here's a scenario... let's suppose... just for a second... that your side gets everything it wants. Then private Industry just goes ahead and keeps hiring $1/hour workers from China and still does not invest in this Country? Because... that's what I see happening. China is INVESTING in their own Country... we are not. That means China is where the money is. China's people will work for a wage we cannot afford to even Begin to compete with.

I don't think it matters all that much what we do with taxes. So.... the way I see it... If these companies want to be considered "American Companies" then they need to be patriots too, not just the people they have left behind while they chased foreign gold.

 

[RDD_1210]

Let me clarify...

I was against letting them expire....when that was the discussion...as I believed business owners needed them as did all Americans.

But when the discussion went to letting them expire for just one class of people...I was dead set against such a proposal...

And that was when I was out there saying "let them expoire for all or for none....but do not turn us into a caste system"..

And yes...I use the term caste system for sensationalism...

Sure, I take you for your word. But you're not a hypocrite like some of your fellow Repubs.

and you are not as some of your fellow liberals.
I am not a republican...I am a conservative who likely will vote republican....but the GOP does not get a dime from me.

So there is hope for you yet.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Let me clarify...

I was against letting them expire....when that was the discussion...as I believed business owners needed them as did all Americans.

But when the discussion went to letting them expire for just one class of people...I was dead set against such a proposal...

And that was when I was out there saying "let them expoire for all or for none....but do not turn us into a caste system"..

And yes...I use the term caste system for sensationalism...

Sure, I take you for your word. But you're not a hypocrite like some of your fellow Repubs.

and you are not as some of your fellow liberals.
I am not a republican...I am a conservative who likely will vote republican....but the GOP does not get a dime from me.

What beliefs do you hold which make you say you are a "conservative"? I'm curious because many different opinions are posted by others who make that claim.