New and Improved Abortion Poll

[manifold]

The surgical procedure is just a tool. I'm talking about the decision to give birth or not give birth.

You mean like the decision to piss or not to piss???

 

[Ravi]

You mean like the decision to piss or not to piss???

You can decide to a certain extent when or where you are going to piss, so in that way perhaps they are similar. And pissing is neither moral or immoral, you nimrod.

 

[manifold]

You can decide to a certain extent when or where you are going to piss, so in that way perhaps they are similar. And pissing is neither moral or immoral, you nimrod.

Be mad all you want. The point is that an abortion is a surgical procedure, it's not a biological function. If there is any reasonable or logical merit to whatever angle you're working, it completely escapes me.

 

[Paulie]

What about, let us not assign morals to a biological function.

Mani, explain how a biological function can be moral or immoral, por favor.

What do you mean abortion is a "biological function"?

Or do you mean conception and pregnancy?

 

[Ravi]

Be mad all you want. The point is that an abortion is a surgical procedure, it's not a biological function. If there is any reasonable or logical merit to whatever angle you're working, it completely escapes me.

Reproduction is a biological process. Just like digestion is...it's no more moral or immoral to regulate reproduction than it is digestion.

So you are saying that the surgical procedure itself is immoral? Does that mean other types of abortion are moral? Or are you saying pregnancy termination itself is immoral? If so, why is it, exactly? Because a church tells us it is...or for some other reason?

 

[Ravi]

What do you mean abortion is a "biological function"?

Or do you mean conception and pregnancy?

All of them, basically. It's all part of reproduction, no?

 

[Ravi]

I've thought about it for a bit and this is what I've come up with.

I've got lots of fruit trees in my yard...key limes, lemons, oranges, mangoes, sapotes, avacodos...and all these trees need nurturing to bear fruit. If conditions aren't right, the trees drop their fruit and save themselves for the next season...to make sure they produce viable fruit. Some of my trees are still not recovered from hurricane Wilma that struck three years ago. Dropping their fruit is a defense mechanism to assure future crops are viable. I can no more make a moral judgment against a tree for doing what is best for her and the future of her offspring than I can make against a woman and the future of her offspring. And anyone else that does so, IMHO, is nothing more than a control freak that has no clue about biology.

 

[Shattered]

I've thought about it for a bit and this is what I've come up with.

I've got lots of fruit trees in my yard...key limes, lemons, oranges, mangoes, sapotes, avacodos...and all these trees need nurturing to bear fruit. If conditions aren't right, the trees drop their fruit and save themselves for the next season...to make sure they produce viable fruit. Some of my trees are still not recovered from hurricane Wilma that struck three years ago. Dropping their fruit is a defense mechanism to assure future crops are viable. I can no more make a moral judgment against a tree for doing what is best for her and the future of her offspring than I can make against a woman and the future of her offspring. And anyone else that does so, IMHO, is nothing more than a control freak that has no clue about biology.

Trees dropping their fruit is a natural function. A miscarriage is a natural function, and natures way of dropping a bad "fruit". An abortion is not the same thing, and really doesn't compare, unless it's for specific reasons that endanger the health of the mother and/or child.

 

[Luissa]

Trees dropping their fruit is a natural function. A miscarriage is a natural function, and natures way of dropping a bad "fruit". An abortion is not the same thing, and really doesn't compare, unless it's for specific reasons that endanger the health of the mother and/or child.

So what if a women has to keep her child because one tells her she can't have an abortion and she always sees that child as a bad fruit!

 

[Shattered]

So what if a women has to keep her child because one tells her she can't have an abortion and she always sees that child as a bad fruit!

Crass as it may sound, unless she was raped (in which case, I'm for the morning after pill), she shoulda kept her legs closed.

 

[Shattered]

Quite simply: Why should we get to CHOOSE which of our actions we will take responsibility for?

Can anyone answer that?

 

[Luissa]

Crass as it may sound, unless she was raped (in which case, I'm for the morning after pill), she shoulda kept her legs closed.

If I would have kept my legs closed I wouldn't have had my son! BUt that is not my point, women are not going to start keeping their legs closed and when they are made to have that child they are going to take it out on that child. Or could be like the neighbor girl I had when I was little who killed herself when she found out she was pregnant!

sidenote:
Right now I am thinking about adoption, my son woke up early from his nap and is being a little monster! jk

 

[Shattered]

If I would have kept my legs closed I wouldn't have had my son! BUt that is not my point, women are not going to start keeping their legs closed and when they are made to have that child they are going to take it out on that child. Or could be like the neighbor girl I had when I was little who killed herself when she found out she was pregnant!

sidenote:
Right now I am thinking about adoption, my son woke up early from his nap and is being a little monster! jk

As I said.. why should we get to CHOOSE which of our actions we will take responsibility for? If I run you down with my car, shouild I be able to get out of the consequences of that action simply by saying "I don't want to face them"?

 

[Luissa]

As I said.. why should we get to CHOOSE which of our actions we will take responsibility for? If I run you down with my car, shouild I be able to get out of the consequences of that action simply by saying "I don't want to face them"?

I agree with what you are saying but some of those people who have to deal with their responsibilities, might deal with them but not very well. Should a child have to enter a world where they are not going to be loved and maybe abused?
And some people are never going to grow up even if they have to have a baby!

 

[Shattered]

I agree with what you are saying but some of those people who have to deal with their responsibilities, might deal with them but not very well. Should a child have to enter a world where they are not going to be loved and maybe abused?
And some people are never going to grow up even if they have to have a baby!

Wrong answer. Too immature? Shouldn't be having sex. Not ready to have a child? Not ready to have sex. Care to try again; this time with something legitimate?

The question was "Why should we get to choose which of our actions we take responsibility for?"

 

[Luissa]

Wrong answer. Too immature? Shouldn't be having sex. Not ready to have a child? Not ready to have sex. Care to try again; this time with something legitimate?

The question was "Why should we get to choose which of our actions we take responsibility for?"

Even if one is to young to have sex they still are going to have sex, people who are not ready to have a child are still going to be having sex. No we shouldn't be able to choose but some people need to be able to for the sake of their future and the welfare of the child they might have.

 

[Shattered]

Even if one is to young to have sex they still are going to have sex, people who are not ready to have a child are still going to be having sex. No we shouldn't be able to choose but some people need to be able to for the sake of their future and the welfare of the child they might have.

You do realize that your attitude is a major part of what's wrong with this world today, right? No sense of right and wrong, lack of ethics, too quick to pass the buck..Let someone else bail people out?

You're part of the problem - not part of the solution.

 

[Luissa]

You do realize that your attitude is a major part of what's wrong with this world today, right? No sense of right and wrong, lack of ethics, too quick to pass the buck..Let someone else bail people out?

You're part of the problem - not part of the solution.

I just know you are not going to stop people who shouldn't have children from having sex.


and I know I just set myself up with that one.

 

[Ravi]

Quite simply: Why should we get to CHOOSE which of our actions we will take responsibility for?

Can anyone answer that?

It's the same thing to me, Shat (referencing your first comment).

And either choice is a choice of taking responsibility even though the outcomes are different.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I just know you are not going to stop people who shouldn't have children from having sex.


and I know I just set myself up with that one.

Your not going to stop people from murdering, from robbing, from drunk driving, the list is endless. Lets just do away with all laws and live in anarchy.