Net Neutrality Revisited

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Oct 6, 2008
124,897
60,268
2,300
Brooklyn, NY
Several months ago there was quite a dispute on the board over the court ruling on net neutrality and the FCC.

My position was that the folks who built the infrastructure, took the risks and the investments, should have every right as to how their property was sold.

Others were incensed that they might have to pay more for their internet service.


It was kind of a "You didn't build that" proxy war....one of those fake 'income inequality' ploys.





To review:

1. The issue is this: there are a handful of servers that basically control the Internet providers like Verizon and Comcast
They've set up a dual-highway system: a super express highway for the largest, wealthiest users, Amazon, Netflix, etc....who can pay more for the service

2. And a local-less accessible highway for the smaller companies.





3. The Net Neutrality law would say that all comers get access to the super highway. ....Internet providers have to treat all traffic sources equally. Net neutrality would be enforced by the Federal Communications Commission, or FCC, the government.

a. One example would be Comcast, which would probably like to promote NBC's content over ABC's to its Internet subscribers. That's because Comcast and NBC are affiliated. But net neutrality prevents Comcast from being able to discriminate, and it must display both NBC's and ABC's content evenly as a result. That means no slower load time for ABC, and definitely no blocking of ABC altogether.
EXPLAINED: 'Net Neutrality' For Dummies, How It Affects You, And Why It Might Cost You More - SFGate





4. The providers say we took the risk and used beaucoup bucks to build this infrastructure...and now you want to come in and tell us how to use it???

a. providers like Verizon don't like the idea of net neutrality. They feel they should be able to pick and choose what people see online and charge content providers accordingly. Imagine if Verizon has tiers of Internet access. The highest paying customers could access everything on the web. The lowest paying customers could access only the information Verizon chooses to promote.
Ibid.

Getting rid of net neutrality means Verizon or Comcast could similarly choose which content to promote based on their own self-interests.




I love this: it is politics at it's most basic!




5. It comes down to an issue of private property....and just as eco-fascists have used government regulations to de facto deprive private land owners the use of their property, once again the collectivist big government folks are out to co-opt what they have no right to.

6. So says a federal judge.
Verizon challenged the Open Internet Rules because they contradicted the FCC's 2002 decision not to regulate Internet service providers. It said, by enforcing Open Internet Rules, the FCC was trying to regulate companies like Verizon.
The court agreed, saying, "even though the Commission has general authority to regulate in this arena, it may not impose requirements that contravene express statutory mandates."
ibid

a. The court, following the Constitution, and the aims of the Founders, says the FCC simply doesn't have the authority to force Internet Service Providers to act like mere dumb pipes, passing data through their tubes with a blind eye and sans preferential treatment.
Appeals court strikes down FCC's net neutrality rules | PCWorld






7.If you like the concept of Net Neutrality, think about it like this:
if a consumer is looking to buy a refrigerator, how about a regulation that all appliance stores have to have the same price for refrigerators? Even better...the same as the lowest price any are charging.

That sound like freedom to you?






Now, this, from today's Drudge:

8. "WASHINGTON — The principle that all Internet content should be treated equally as it flows through cables and pipes to consumers looks all but dead.

The Federal Communications Commission said on Wednesday that it would propose new rules that allow companies like Disney, Google or Netflix to pay Internet service providers like Comcast and Verizon for special, faster lanes to send video and other content to their customers.

The proposed changes would affect what is known as net neutrality — the idea that no providers of legal Internet content should face discrimination in providing offerings to consumers, and that users should have equal access to see any legal content they choose.
The proposal comes three months after a federal appeals court struck down, for the second time, agency rules intended to guarantee a free and open Internet.

Broadband companies have pushed for the right to build special lanes. Verizon said during appeals court arguments that if it could make those kinds of deals, it would.
Under the proposal, broadband providers would have to disclose how they treat all Internet traffic and on what terms they offer more rapid lanes, and would be required to act “in a commercially reasonable manner,” agency officials said. That standard would be fleshed out as the agency seeks public comment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/t...html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=0




Freedom and liberty survives another assault by the collectivists!
 
Last edited:
You'll see what happens when your internet access provider get to decide what you have access too, lass.

USMB?

Probably won't be here.
 
You'll see what happens when your internet access provider get to decide what you have access too, lass.

USMB?

Probably won't be here.




So that I won't assume an emergency intervention is necessary.....

....could you explain how you derived that conclusion from the OP?




I sure hope you aren't becoming another Jakal, simply striving for a relevance that is out of reach.
 
What a great week for America!



1. The eco-fascists return Cliven Bundy's cattle!

2. The Supreme Court decides that judges have no right to throw out the votes of the the public on a state issue.

3. The court slaps down the FCC and allows private business to charge what they wish for their product!
 
I'm glad I finally heard from someone about this. The Internet has exploded over whether Clive Bundy is a racist (imo, an irrelevant side-issue in a meaningless 24-hour-cable-news space-filler and partisan pissing match), and meanwhile Comcast and Verizon are muscling the FCC into dismantling the principle which makes the Internet as we know it today possible.

I really don't understand the average conservative's position on this. The heart of the conservative position concerning economics is individual freedom, and the open and uncontrolled space necessary to actually use it. What does it matter whether the limits being placed on you come from the government or Comcast?

Private property rights are a strong concern when we're talking about the individual, and even the large company. But when we're talking about a service that's ubiquitous nationwide, the question of the public interest arises. The rules and the very ethos at work both change. How could small start-ups thrive if they had to pay extra for quality phone service? The government has stepped in multiple times in the name of the public interest, and American society has been the better for it.

I'm not a lawyer. I don't pretend to understand all the intricacies. But I know that a fairly-accessed network that "has generated hundreds of billions of dollars in economic growth," and which some 70% of American adults use, deserves to be protected.

Sorry for the link-salad.
 
I'm glad I finally heard from someone about this. The Internet has exploded over whether Clive Bundy is a racist (imo, an irrelevant side-issue in a meaningless 24-hour-cable-news space-filler and partisan pissing match), and meanwhile Comcast and Verizon are muscling the FCC into dismantling the principle which makes the Internet as we know it today possible.

I really don't understand the average conservative's position on this. The heart of the conservative position concerning economics is individual freedom, and the open and uncontrolled space necessary to actually use it. What does it matter whether the limits being placed on you come from the government or Comcast?

Private property rights are a strong concern when we're talking about the individual, and even the large company. But when we're talking about a service that's ubiquitous nationwide, the question of the public interest arises. The rules and the very ethos at work both change. How could small start-ups thrive if they had to pay extra for quality phone service? The government has stepped in multiple times in the name of the public interest, and American society has been the better for it.

I'm not a lawyer. I don't pretend to understand all the intricacies. But I know that a fairly-accessed network that "has generated hundreds of billions of dollars in economic growth," and which some 70% of American adults use, deserves to be protected.

Sorry for the link-salad.




Welcome to the board.


"What does it matter whether the limits being placed on you come from the government or Comcast?"

Serious?


What do you do if you don't like the service from a business that you are doing business with?
(sorry to end the sentence with a preposition.)



What do you do if you don't like the regulations, laws, requirements of an agency or the views of a bureaucrat.


Comcast can't put you in prison.


Best rethink your position.
 
The real problem isthat Comcast is turning into the kind of monopoly that AT&T and Microsoft turned into, which means they could specialize in shitty service and robbing the customer because they had no competition.

That's when you want the government to step in, really.
 
The real problem isthat Comcast is turning into the kind of monopoly that AT&T and Microsoft turned into, which means they could specialize in shitty service and robbing the customer because they had no competition.

That's when you want the government to step in, really.




"The real problem...."

Problem?

No problem....the federal judge solved the problem of government overreach.




"That's when you want the government to step in, really."

No, I don't.

Really.
 
The real problem isthat Comcast is turning into the kind of monopoly that AT&T and Microsoft turned into, which means they could specialize in shitty service and robbing the customer because they had no competition.

That's when you want the government to step in, really.

"The real problem...."

Problem?

No problem....the federal judge solved the problem of government overreach.

"That's when you want the government to step in, really."

No, I don't.

Really.

Well, you don't, but you enjoy being bent over by big corporations.

The rest of think it's silly to be required to pay for 400 channels of garbage we never watch.
 
The real problem isthat Comcast is turning into the kind of monopoly that AT&T and Microsoft turned into, which means they could specialize in shitty service and robbing the customer because they had no competition.

That's when you want the government to step in, really.

"The real problem...."

Problem?

No problem....the federal judge solved the problem of government overreach.

"That's when you want the government to step in, really."

No, I don't.

Really.

Well, you don't, but you enjoy being bent over by big corporations.

The rest of think it's silly to be required to pay for 400 channels of garbage we never watch.

left-wingers want to be told what to think; and want everybod
 
The real problem isthat Comcast is turning into the kind of monopoly that AT&T and Microsoft turned into, which means they could specialize in shitty service and robbing the customer because they had no competition.

That's when you want the government to step in, really.

"The real problem...."

Problem?

No problem....the federal judge solved the problem of government overreach.

"That's when you want the government to step in, really."

No, I don't.

Really.

Well, you don't, but you enjoy being bent over by big corporations.

The rest of think it's silly to be required to pay for 400 channels of garbage we never watch.





The solution is the free market, not your totalitarian bureaucrats.


....unless you are a lazy, undisciplined, commie simpleton.
 
Net nuetrality means that your internet provider must NOT limit bandwidth devoted to any internet address.

IF we allow them to parce our the net into merchandized chunks, they will make us PAY for internet access much in the same way they now charge us for TELEVISION CABLE PROGRAMMING.

Right now you have full access to anything online that is broadcasting via the net.

Give that up and the net ceases to be the same experience it is now.

Meanwhile your internet providers will NOT be sharing their revenue with the sites that they allow people accesss to.

No they will just pocket the additional incomes they're now charging you.
 
Net nuetrality means that your internet provider must NOT limit bandwidth devoted to any internet address.

IF we allow them to parce our the net into merchandized chunks, they will make us PAY for internet access much in the same way they now charge us for TELEVISION CABLE PROGRAMMING.

Right now you have full access to anything online that is broadcasting via the net.

Give that up and the net ceases to be the same experience it is now.

Meanwhile your internet providers will NOT be sharing their revenue with the sites that they allow people accesss to.

No they will just pocket the additional incomes they're now charging you.





"IF we allow them to parce our the net (sic) into merchandized chunks, they will make us PAY for internet access much in the same way they now charge us for TELEVISION CABLE PROGRAMMING."

Excellent!
I am so pleased that you have succinctly produced the obverse of the OP!
Rep on the way!


This is exactly the question at hand, and the basis for "You didn't build that!"




Is our society to be based on the free market, on capitalism, or on government decisions as to what should be produced, at what cost to the consumer, and allocation of resources?

It isn't as though both courses haven't been tried......



1. "The Trabant is an automobile that was produced by former East German auto maker VEB Sachsenring Automobilwerke Zwickau in Zwickau, Sachsen. It was the most common vehicle in East Germany, and was also exported to countries both inside and outside the communist bloc.....mediocre performance and smoky two-stroke engine, ...regarded with derisive affection as a symbol of the failed former East Germany and of the fall of communism ....

For advocates of capitalism it is often cited as an example of the disadvantages of centralized planning ....
Trabant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


a. ....the man who goes to buy a car in Moscow, pays for it, and is told by the salesman that he can collect it on a particular date in 10 years' time. The buyer thinks for a moment and then asks: 'Morning or afternoon?' The salesman, astonished by the question, asks: 'What difference does it make?' And the buyer answers: 'Well, the plumber is coming in the morning.'






2. In the free market, every man, woman and child is scheming to find a better way to make a product or service that will make a fortune! . It is not perfect; it is simply better than state control. It is the one that has to respond quickly and effectively to dissatisfaction and to demand.
In the free market, if a product or service does not please, it is discontinued. Compare that to government persistence and expansion of programs that proven to have failed decades ago: farm subsidies, aid to Africa, busing, etc.
David Mamet.
 
I'm glad I finally heard from someone about this. The Internet has exploded over whether Clive Bundy is a racist (imo, an irrelevant side-issue in a meaningless 24-hour-cable-news space-filler and partisan pissing match), and meanwhile Comcast and Verizon are muscling the FCC into dismantling the principle which makes the Internet as we know it today possible.

I really don't understand the average conservative's position on this. The heart of the conservative position concerning economics is individual freedom, and the open and uncontrolled space necessary to actually use it. What does it matter whether the limits being placed on you come from the government or Comcast?

Private property rights are a strong concern when we're talking about the individual, and even the large company. But when we're talking about a service that's ubiquitous nationwide, the question of the public interest arises. The rules and the very ethos at work both change. How could small start-ups thrive if they had to pay extra for quality phone service? The government has stepped in multiple times in the name of the public interest, and American society has been the better for it.

I'm not a lawyer. I don't pretend to understand all the intricacies. But I know that a fairly-accessed network that "has generated hundreds of billions of dollars in economic growth," and which some 70% of American adults use, deserves to be protected.

Sorry for the link-salad.




Welcome to the board.


"What does it matter whether the limits being placed on you come from the government or Comcast?"

Serious?


What do you do if you don't like the service from a business that you are doing business with?
(sorry to end the sentence with a preposition.)



What do you do if you don't like the regulations, laws, requirements of an agency or the views of a bureaucrat.


Comcast can't put you in prison.


Best rethink your position.

Thanks for the welcome.

If I don't like the service from an internet service provider, I most likely have to suck it up. We're not talking about a shoe store or a restaurant, where the free hand of the market can essentially be relied on to do its thing. Most Americans have two, maybe three choices really. The free-market competition that you suggest justifies this recent FCC story doesn't exist. Much like the other ubiquitous services which require infrastructure and have high barriers for entry, a certain level of government cooperation is necessary to preserve the public interest.

"...In countries like the U.K., regulators forced incumbent cable and telephone operators to lease their networks to competitors at cost, which enabled new providers to enter the market and brought down prices dramatically. The incumbents—the local versions of Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Verizon, and AT&T—didn’t like this policy at all, but the regulators held firm and forced them to accept genuine competition. “The prices were too high,” one of the regulators explained to the media writer Rick Karr. “There were huge barriers to entry.”

That quote accurately describes the situation in the United States today, where vigorous competition is almost non-existent. In some big cities, broadband consumers have a choice between a cable operator, such as Comcast, and a telephone provider, such as Verizon. But that’s practically no choice at all.
"

Still, I'm actually not nearly so concerned with the cost of Internet as I am with who controls my Internet experience. Right now the Internet is incredibly fertile ground for innovation. As ISPs get to exert more control over who gets the best bandwidth, however, web traffic will increasingly be diverted to already-established businesses. The equal playing field we enjoy today will be warped, and the barrier for entry for Internet start-ups will increase as entrepreneurs will have to pay more to attract traffic. This will choke off innovation, and much like the Internet service provider market, consumers will have fewer fresh options and will increasingly surrender to larger businesses' terms.
 
Last edited:
I'm glad I finally heard from someone about this. The Internet has exploded over whether Clive Bundy is a racist (imo, an irrelevant side-issue in a meaningless 24-hour-cable-news space-filler and partisan pissing match), and meanwhile Comcast and Verizon are muscling the FCC into dismantling the principle which makes the Internet as we know it today possible.

I really don't understand the average conservative's position on this. The heart of the conservative position concerning economics is individual freedom, and the open and uncontrolled space necessary to actually use it. What does it matter whether the limits being placed on you come from the government or Comcast?

Private property rights are a strong concern when we're talking about the individual, and even the large company. But when we're talking about a service that's ubiquitous nationwide, the question of the public interest arises. The rules and the very ethos at work both change. How could small start-ups thrive if they had to pay extra for quality phone service? The government has stepped in multiple times in the name of the public interest, and American society has been the better for it.

I'm not a lawyer. I don't pretend to understand all the intricacies. But I know that a fairly-accessed network that "has generated hundreds of billions of dollars in economic growth," and which some 70% of American adults use, deserves to be protected.

Sorry for the link-salad.




Welcome to the board.


"What does it matter whether the limits being placed on you come from the government or Comcast?"

Serious?


What do you do if you don't like the service from a business that you are doing business with?
(sorry to end the sentence with a preposition.)



What do you do if you don't like the regulations, laws, requirements of an agency or the views of a bureaucrat.


Comcast can't put you in prison.


Best rethink your position.

Thanks for the welcome.

If I don't like the service from an internet service provider, I most likely have to suck it up. We're not talking about a shoe store or a restaurant, where the free hand of the market can essentially be relied on to do its thing. Most Americans have two, maybe three choices really. The free-market competition that you suggest justifies this recent FCC story doesn't exist. Much like the other ubiquitous services which require infrastructure and have high barriers for entry, a certain level of government cooperation is necessary to preserve the public interest.

"...In countries like the U.K., regulators forced incumbent cable and telephone operators to lease their networks to competitors at cost, which enabled new providers to enter the market and brought down prices dramatically. The incumbents—the local versions of Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Verizon, and AT&T—didn’t like this policy at all, but the regulators held firm and forced them to accept genuine competition. “The prices were too high,” one of the regulators explained to the media writer Rick Karr. “There were huge barriers to entry.”

That quote accurately describes the situation in the United States today, where vigorous competition is almost non-existent. In some big cities, broadband consumers have a choice between a cable operator, such as Comcast, and a telephone provider, such as Verizon. But that’s practically no choice at all.
"

Still, I'm actually not nearly so concerned with the cost of Internet as I am with who controls my Internet experience. Right now the Internet is incredibly fertile ground for innovation. As ISPs get to exert more control over who gets the best bandwidth, however, web traffic will increasingly be diverted to already-established businesses. The equal playing field we enjoy today will be warped, and the barrier for entry for Internet start-ups will increase as entrepreneurs will have to pay more to attract traffic. This will choke off innovation, and much like the Internet service provider market, consumers will have fewer fresh options and will increasingly surrender to larger businesses' terms.




1. "If I don't like the service from an internet service provider, I most likely have to suck it up."

That's the penalty for being a lazy, cowardly dunce.




2."Most Americans have two, maybe three choices."

Does that include canceling the service?




3. "Much like the other ubiquitous services which require infrastructure and have high barriers for entry, a certain level of government cooperation is necessary to preserve the public interest."

Were not speaking of milk for the baby.....

....learn to read a book.....library cards are free.

Grow up.




4. "....not nearly so concerned with the cost of Internet as I am with who controls my Internet experience."

Did I just suggest that you grow up?
Seems to be too late.
 
[

The solution is the free market, not your totalitarian bureaucrats.


....unless you are a lazy, undisciplined, commie simpleton.

That's the point, though. The "Free Market" decided that it was more lucrative to create de facto monopolies and control prices and services and soak the consumer for far more than what the service is worth.

And if someone tries to beat the system like this guy with his new antenna system, they sue to keep him from doing it.
 
Welcome to the board.


"What does it matter whether the limits being placed on you come from the government or Comcast?"

Serious?


What do you do if you don't like the service from a business that you are doing business with?
(sorry to end the sentence with a preposition.)



What do you do if you don't like the regulations, laws, requirements of an agency or the views of a bureaucrat.


Comcast can't put you in prison.


Best rethink your position.

Thanks for the welcome.

If I don't like the service from an internet service provider, I most likely have to suck it up. We're not talking about a shoe store or a restaurant, where the free hand of the market can essentially be relied on to do its thing. Most Americans have two, maybe three choices really. The free-market competition that you suggest justifies this recent FCC story doesn't exist. Much like the other ubiquitous services which require infrastructure and have high barriers for entry, a certain level of government cooperation is necessary to preserve the public interest.

"...In countries like the U.K., regulators forced incumbent cable and telephone operators to lease their networks to competitors at cost, which enabled new providers to enter the market and brought down prices dramatically. The incumbents—the local versions of Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Verizon, and AT&T—didn’t like this policy at all, but the regulators held firm and forced them to accept genuine competition. “The prices were too high,” one of the regulators explained to the media writer Rick Karr. “There were huge barriers to entry.”

That quote accurately describes the situation in the United States today, where vigorous competition is almost non-existent. In some big cities, broadband consumers have a choice between a cable operator, such as Comcast, and a telephone provider, such as Verizon. But that’s practically no choice at all.
"

Still, I'm actually not nearly so concerned with the cost of Internet as I am with who controls my Internet experience. Right now the Internet is incredibly fertile ground for innovation. As ISPs get to exert more control over who gets the best bandwidth, however, web traffic will increasingly be diverted to already-established businesses. The equal playing field we enjoy today will be warped, and the barrier for entry for Internet start-ups will increase as entrepreneurs will have to pay more to attract traffic. This will choke off innovation, and much like the Internet service provider market, consumers will have fewer fresh options and will increasingly surrender to larger businesses' terms.




1. "If I don't like the service from an internet service provider, I most likely have to suck it up."

That's the penalty for being a lazy, cowardly dunce.




2."Most Americans have two, maybe three choices."

Does that include canceling the service?




3. "Much like the other ubiquitous services which require infrastructure and have high barriers for entry, a certain level of government cooperation is necessary to preserve the public interest."

Were not speaking of milk for the baby.....

....learn to read a book.....library cards are free.

Grow up.




4. "....not nearly so concerned with the cost of Internet as I am with who controls my Internet experience."

Did I just suggest that you grow up?
Seems to be too late.

Cute. I liked your earlier posts better. Sourced, organized, convincing...

You need to read my quote you put at #3 again, because it's about start-up Internet service providers, not consumers. You seem fixated on arguing about these events on the consumer's end, but there's a bigger picture to consider. So Internet costs more than it has to - that's too bad.

Meanwhile, these quasi-monopolies are real, and the threat they pose to the free market is also real. If you believe private companies cannot or will not threaten commerce or hurt economic growth, you are sadly mistaken.

It's time to leave your false dichotomies about pure capitalism vs pure socialism back in high school where they belong. The real world is a touch more complicated.
 
Net nuetrality means that your internet provider must NOT limit bandwidth devoted to any internet address.

IF we allow them to parce our the net into merchandized chunks, they will make us PAY for internet access much in the same way they now charge us for TELEVISION CABLE PROGRAMMING.

Right now you have full access to anything online that is broadcasting via the net.

Give that up and the net ceases to be the same experience it is now.

Meanwhile your internet providers will NOT be sharing their revenue with the sites that they allow people accesss to.

No they will just pocket the additional incomes they're now charging you.





"IF we allow them to parce our the net (sic) into merchandized chunks, they will make us PAY for internet access much in the same way they now charge us for TELEVISION CABLE PROGRAMMING."

Excellent!
I am so pleased that you have succinctly produced the obverse of the OP!
Rep on the way!



This is exactly the question at hand, and the basis for "You didn't build that!"




Is our society to be based on the free market, on capitalism, or on government decisions as to what should be produced, at what cost to the consumer, and allocation of resources?

It isn't as though both courses haven't been tried......



1. "The Trabant is an automobile that was produced by former East German auto maker VEB Sachsenring Automobilwerke Zwickau in Zwickau, Sachsen. It was the most common vehicle in East Germany, and was also exported to countries both inside and outside the communist bloc.....mediocre performance and smoky two-stroke engine, ...regarded with derisive affection as a symbol of the failed former East Germany and of the fall of communism ....

For advocates of capitalism it is often cited as an example of the disadvantages of centralized planning ....
Trabant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


a. ....the man who goes to buy a car in Moscow, pays for it, and is told by the salesman that he can collect it on a particular date in 10 years' time. The buyer thinks for a moment and then asks: 'Morning or afternoon?' The salesman, astonished by the question, asks: 'What difference does it make?' And the buyer answers: 'Well, the plumber is coming in the morning.'






2. In the free market, every man, woman and child is scheming to find a better way to make a product or service that will make a fortune! . It is not perfect; it is simply better than state control. It is the one that has to respond quickly and effectively to dissatisfaction and to demand.
In the free market, if a product or service does not please, it is discontinued. Compare that to government persistence and expansion of programs that proven to have failed decades ago: farm subsidies, aid to Africa, busing, etc.
David Mamet.

Brilliant!
 
We must give our entire economy, all our jobs, all our intellectual property to China, Bill Clinton gave China the Technology to launch missiles and rockets into space, so who cares if we control any technology.

China should control the future.
 
We must give our entire economy, all our jobs, all our intellectual property to China, Bill Clinton gave China the Technology to launch missiles and rockets into space, so who cares if we control any technology.

China should control the future.





Now why did you have to start me off on Bill 'the rapist' Clinton, the pride and joy of our Liberal/Progressive/Democrat pals????

Aside from being a rapist,and a convicted criminal, this 'icon' did everything he could to grab money...


1. "Flashback: Clinton, Bernie Schwartz, Loral Space and the ChiComs
...the State Department had purview over American companies that were experts in this field. They transferred the supervision of these companies from State to Commerce, which was run by Ron Brown. We're talking about Loral Space and Bernie Schwartz and Bernie Schwartz was a big Clinton donor."
Flashback: Clinton, Bernie Schwartz, Loral Space and the ChiComs - The Rush Limbaugh Show



2. "It was the 1996 Khobar Towers terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia, where 19 U.S. servicemen died and more than 370 were wounded....The FBI wanted access to the suspects the Saudis had arrested but then-Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar said the only way to get access to prisoners would be if the president personally asked the crown prince for access.

Freeh says Clinton did not help him. He writes in his book:

"Bill Clinton raised the subject only to tell the crown prince that he understood the Saudi's reluctance to cooperate, and then he hit Abdullah up for a contribution to the Clinton Presidential Library."

"That's a fact that I'm reporting," says Freeh."
Ex-FBI Chief On Clinton's Scandals - CBS News



And this is the most popular Democrat official.....

Imagaine. This is what America has become.



 
Last edited by a moderator:

Forum List

Back
Top