Neil Armstrong: Obama killing off U.S. space program..

[BDBoop]

These right wingers are so dense. What is it they don't get.

Rocket Technology has only improved "a little" since the 1960's. And those improvements are because of computers and composites. But the technology is basically the same.

Republicans keep saying, "Get government out of the way and let business take over". Only we know that doesn't work. Because business doesn't do much research. Why? Because research is "risky". Get it? Research is "risky". Companies grow by buying up other companies. And then laying off people.

Republicans are conservative. They want things THE SAME. They have no new ideas. No vision. Delusion aren't "vision".

What Obama has done is move away from trying to visit the top of Mt. St. Helen's on a pogo stick.

NASA has turned towards developing new methods of moving a payload into space. Away from "building". That, they are leaving to "private companies".

What has ALWAYS worked best in this country is a partnership between Universities, Business and Government. Fucking dumb ass Republicans have demonized Government and trashed Education. And they have set up business as a "False God". We've got to stop listening to these awful people. They can't think, they are stupid, they don't have facts to back up anything they say, they are delusional. I don't think they are lying on purpose. Their delusions keep them from recognizing their lies.

And by "risky" they mean "What's in it for me? Nothing? Ain't happening, yo."

 

[American Horse]

These right wingers are so dense. What is it they don't get.

Rocket Technology has only improved "a little" since the 1960's. And those improvements are because of computers and composites. But the technology is basically the same.

Republicans keep saying, "Get government out of the way and let business take over". Only we know that doesn't work. Because business doesn't do much research. Why? Because research is "risky". Get it? Research is "risky". Companies grow by buying up other companies. And then laying off people.

Republicans are conservative. They want things THE SAME. They have no new ideas. No vision. Delusion aren't "vision".

What Obama has done is move away from trying to visit the top of Mt. St. Helen's on a pogo stick.

NASA has turned towards developing new methods of moving a payload into space. Away from "building". That, they are leaving to "private companies".

What has ALWAYS worked best in this country is a partnership between Universities, Business and Government. Fucking dumb ass Republicans [CLASSY !] have demonized Government and trashed Education. And they have set up business as a "False God". We've got to stop listening to these awful people. They can't think, they are stupid, they don't have facts to back up anything they say, they are delusional. I don't think they are lying on purpose. Their delusions keep them from recognizing their lies.

And by "risky" they mean "What's in it for me? Nothing? Ain't happening, yo."

You know Dean that it was government policies (I admit passed by both parties with the Rs going along to get along) that removed incentives for these large companies to do research and development and turn their efforts to buying established companies as safer investments for their capital.

If, by driving up the cost of R&D with onerous regulations you make the development of new (or innovative) products and ideas much more risky because of unpredictable outcomes or incalculable costs or high liabilities or much higher administrative/legal costs, YOU can expect CEOs to take their companies capital to less risky ventures. First your party causes (through unanticipated consequences?), and then it damns human nature of CEOs for acting according to the incentives they’ve created.

Sarbanes Oxley is a fine example touted as reform; by driving up the costs of new IPOs, IPOs have left the American marketplace as public companies and are opening overseas with China now leading America with new IPOs. The cost of initiating a new public offering has risen from maybe a hundred grand, well above the projected 280k to 2.8 million.

Republicans don't trash education and education is not paid for by the Federal government. It's paid for at home at the state and township level, and the feds have done nothing but add costs and interfered with outcomes. Republicans complain about that interference to their schools that drives up property taxes (the true funding mechanism of public education), and the shift to the feds of every aspect of their child’s education while removing studies that reflect their local values.

And if you haven't read my post which referred to Zubrin's comments, it’s not about going to Mars instead of the moon, it's about the administration's coming budget cuts which will damage scientific research platforms under NASA. This is not being left to private companies, it is being done away with, leaving payload delivery more to private companies (which I agree with btw).

 

[rightwinger]

These right wingers are so dense. What is it they don't get.

Rocket Technology has only improved "a little" since the 1960's. And those improvements are because of computers and composites. But the technology is basically the same.

Republicans keep saying, "Get government out of the way and let business take over". Only we know that doesn't work. Because business doesn't do much research. Why? Because research is "risky". Get it? Research is "risky". Companies grow by buying up other companies. And then laying off people.

Republicans are conservative. They want things THE SAME. They have no new ideas. No vision. Delusion aren't "vision".

What Obama has done is move away from trying to visit the top of Mt. St. Helen's on a pogo stick.

NASA has turned towards developing new methods of moving a payload into space. Away from "building". That, they are leaving to "private companies".

What has ALWAYS worked best in this country is a partnership between Universities, Business and Government. Fucking dumb ass Republicans [CLASSY !] have demonized Government and trashed Education. And they have set up business as a "False God". We've got to stop listening to these awful people. They can't think, they are stupid, they don't have facts to back up anything they say, they are delusional. I don't think they are lying on purpose. Their delusions keep them from recognizing their lies.

And by "risky" they mean "What's in it for me? Nothing? Ain't happening, yo."

You know Dean that it was government policies (I admit passed by both parties with the Rs going along to get along) that removed incentives for these large companies to do research and development and turn their efforts to buying established companies as safer investments for their capital.

If, by driving up the cost of R&D with onerous regulations you make the development of new (or innovative) products and ideas much more risky because of unpredictable outcomes or incalculable costs or high liabilities or much higher administrative/legal costs, YOU can expect CEOs to take their companies capital to less risky ventures. First your party causes (through unanticipated consequences?), and then it damns human nature of CEOs for acting according to the incentives they’ve created.

Sarbanes Oxley is a fine example touted as reform; by driving up the costs of new IPOs, IPOs have left the American marketplace as public companies and are opening overseas with China now leading America with new IPOs. The cost of initiating a new public offering has risen from maybe a hundred grand, well above the projected 280k to 2.8 million.

Republicans don't trash education and education is not paid for by the Federal government. It's paid for at home at the state and township level, and the feds have done nothing but add costs and interfered with outcomes. Republicans complain about that interference to their schools that drives up property taxes (the true funding mechanism of public education), and the shift to the feds of every aspect of their child’s education while removing studies that reflect their local values.

And if you haven't read my post which referred to Zubrin's comments, it’s not about going to Mars instead of the moon, it's about the administration's coming budget cuts which will damage scientific research platforms under NASA. This is not being left to private companies, it is being done away with, leaving payload delivery more to private companies (which I agree with btw).

"incentives" for large companies?

Isn't that welfare for mega corporations that get to keep the patents that taxpayers paid for?

Corporations want all the benefits of R&D without assuming any of the risk. The reason they don't invest in R&D is it involves long term benefits while they are looking for quick profits

 

[Si modo]

I'm a huge fan of the space program...always have been, but its my understanding that two unpaid for wars, unpaid for tax cuts and an unpaid for Medicare Part D program topped with Wall Street Greed and malfeasance has left this country in a bit of a pickle financially.

I mean, we're supposed to be on a budget right? Justify spending on NASA when the GnOP wants to cut Social Security and give coupons for old folks to purchase Medicare.

Come on Private Industry...time for you to take over without all that government welfare. Where is my commercial space flight?

So, instead of being prudent with the budget, Obama ADDS more debt?

And, cuts the space program.

Added more debt to save the economy...just ask economists who almost universally agree about what the Stimulus did for us.

The President, I'm certain, did not want to HAVE TO bail the country out with a stimulus, but Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and Bush II left little choice. If he had a choice, I'm sure he would much rather be spending money on toys like rockets to the moon than saving us from a Depression.

Sorry, but if I have to choose between space exploration and grandma not eating cat food, I'll take Grandma not eating catfood.

Yeah, save companies that should fail because they suck at what they do at the cost of NASA.

Right, like I said. Democrats and Obama hate science.

 

[BDBoop]

And by "risky" they mean "What's in it for me? Nothing? Ain't happening, yo."

You know Dean that it was government policies (I admit passed by both parties with the Rs going along to get along) that removed incentives for these large companies to do research and development and turn their efforts to buying established companies as safer investments for their capital.

If, by driving up the cost of R&D with onerous regulations you make the development of new (or innovative) products and ideas much more risky because of unpredictable outcomes or incalculable costs or high liabilities or much higher administrative/legal costs, YOU can expect CEOs to take their companies capital to less risky ventures. First your party causes (through unanticipated consequences?), and then it damns human nature of CEOs for acting according to the incentives they’ve created.

Sarbanes Oxley is a fine example touted as reform; by driving up the costs of new IPOs, IPOs have left the American marketplace as public companies and are opening overseas with China now leading America with new IPOs. The cost of initiating a new public offering has risen from maybe a hundred grand, well above the projected 280k to 2.8 million.

Republicans don't trash education and education is not paid for by the Federal government. It's paid for at home at the state and township level, and the feds have done nothing but add costs and interfered with outcomes. Republicans complain about that interference to their schools that drives up property taxes (the true funding mechanism of public education), and the shift to the feds of every aspect of their child’s education while removing studies that reflect their local values.

And if you haven't read my post which referred to Zubrin's comments, it’s not about going to Mars instead of the moon, it's about the administration's coming budget cuts which will damage scientific research platforms under NASA. This is not being left to private companies, it is being done away with, leaving payload delivery more to private companies (which I agree with btw).

"incentives" for large companies?

Isn't that welfare for mega corporations that get to keep the patents that taxpayers paid for?

Corporations want all the benefits of R&D without assuming any of the risk. The reason they don't invest in R&D is it involves long term benefits while they are looking for quick profits

Exactly, hallelujah and amen.

 

[rdean]

I'm a huge fan of the space program...always have been, but its my understanding that two unpaid for wars, unpaid for tax cuts and an unpaid for Medicare Part D program topped with Wall Street Greed and malfeasance has left this country in a bit of a pickle financially.

I mean, we're supposed to be on a budget right? Justify spending on NASA when the GnOP wants to cut Social Security and give coupons for old folks to purchase Medicare.

Come on Private Industry...time for you to take over without all that government welfare. Where is my commercial space flight?

So, instead of being prudent with the budget, Obama ADDS more debt?

And, cuts the space program.

Added more debt to save the economy...just ask economists who almost universally agree about what the Stimulus did for us.

The President, I'm certain, did not want to HAVE TO bail the country out with a stimulus, but Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and Bush II left little choice. If he had a choice, I'm sure he would much rather be spending money on toys like rockets to the moon than saving us from a Depression.

Sorry, but if I have to choose between space exploration and grandma not eating cat food, I'll take Grandma not eating catfood.

The truth is we benefited enormously from our space program. Every aspect of life in the USA has been touched by what was learned from NASA. From health, to agriculture, to technology. NASA has thousands of patents they license and sell and while they do bring in revenue, that's negligible to what they bring in through their support of business and education.

The Space Review: Putting NASA’s budget in perspective

The 2007 budget allocates roughly $609 billion to defense, not including the budget for the Department of Homeland Security. This is nearly 38 times the amount of money spent on NASA. If you include funding for the Department of Homeland Security, defense spending adds up to $652.5 billion, which is more than 40 times NASA’s budget. While few question the need to maintain a strong military in an uncertain age, some might consider it excessive for the United States to spend more on its military than the next fifteen biggest defense spenders put together, especially as most of them are American allies. Furthermore, there certainly are a great number of military programs of questionable value, as well as many sound military programs whose price tags nevertheless raise eyebrows.

As one anecdotal example, consider that each B-2 stealth bomber cost the US taxpayer roughly $2.2 billion. Then consider that the New Horizons robotic mission to Pluto, which will answer fundamental questions about the solar system, was nearly canceled for lack of funds. The total cost of the New Horizons mission, including the launch vehicle, added up to $650 million. In other words, the New Horizons mission to Pluto cost less than a third the cost of a single B-2 bomber.

 

[rdean]

Obama and Democrats hate science.

Republicans make up their own science

Yes the continued comments from the left like


Maybe, could be, possibly and might be are powerful arguments you guys have..

Magical Creation PROVES Republicans make up their own science. Nothing wins a debate like "truth".

 

[rdean]

These right wingers are so dense. What is it they don't get.

Rocket Technology has only improved "a little" since the 1960's. And those improvements are because of computers and composites. But the technology is basically the same.

Republicans keep saying, "Get government out of the way and let business take over". Only we know that doesn't work. Because business doesn't do much research. Why? Because research is "risky". Get it? Research is "risky". Companies grow by buying up other companies. And then laying off people.

Republicans are conservative. They want things THE SAME. They have no new ideas. No vision. Delusion aren't "vision".

What Obama has done is move away from trying to visit the top of Mt. St. Helen's on a pogo stick.

NASA has turned towards developing new methods of moving a payload into space. Away from "building". That, they are leaving to "private companies".

What has ALWAYS worked best in this country is a partnership between Universities, Business and Government. Fucking dumb ass Republicans [CLASSY !] have demonized Government and trashed Education. And they have set up business as a "False God". We've got to stop listening to these awful people. They can't think, they are stupid, they don't have facts to back up anything they say, they are delusional. I don't think they are lying on purpose. Their delusions keep them from recognizing their lies.

And by "risky" they mean "What's in it for me? Nothing? Ain't happening, yo."

You know Dean that it was government policies (I admit passed by both parties with the Rs going along to get along) that removed incentives for these large companies to do research and development and turn their efforts to buying established companies as safer investments for their capital.

If, by driving up the cost of R&D with onerous regulations you make the development of new (or innovative) products and ideas much more risky because of unpredictable outcomes or incalculable costs or high liabilities or much higher administrative/legal costs, YOU can expect CEOs to take their companies capital to less risky ventures. First your party causes (through unanticipated consequences?), and then it damns human nature of CEOs for acting according to the incentives they’ve created.

Sarbanes Oxley is a fine example touted as reform; by driving up the costs of new IPOs, IPOs have left the American marketplace as public companies and are opening overseas with China now leading America with new IPOs. The cost of initiating a new public offering has risen from maybe a hundred grand, well above the projected 280k to 2.8 million.

Republicans don't trash education and education is not paid for by the Federal government. It's paid for at home at the state and township level, and the feds have done nothing but add costs and interfered with outcomes. Republicans complain about that interference to their schools that drives up property taxes (the true funding mechanism of public education), and the shift to the feds of every aspect of their child’s education while removing studies that reflect their local values.

And if you haven't read my post which referred to Zubrin's comments, it’s not about going to Mars instead of the moon, it's about the administration's coming budget cuts which will damage scientific research platforms under NASA. This is not being left to private companies, it is being done away with, leaving payload delivery more to private companies (which I agree with btw).

I wish Republicans would "man up" and quit saying "both parties". When Bush went into Iraq, the support that came from Democrats was because of such propaganda as "You are with us or with the terrorists". Who knew the President would create and lie America into a fake war?

It was less than a year ago Republicans held millions of Americans hostage.

Senate Republicans pledge not to take up any issues, including extending unemployment benefits, until the Bush tax cuts

Unemployment benefits: not until Bush tax cuts pass, Senate GOP says - CSMonitor.com

Christian Science Monitor. Oh those Christians, so liberal. Yea, sure.

Republicans say Obama was weak because he couldn't let millions of American suffer. But what is that saying about the party of "Let him die" and who applauds executions?

Many times Democrats vote with Republicans is because they are trying to keep the "damage" down. Republicans are like Midas, only everything they touch turns to shit.

 

[American Horse]

And by "risky" they mean "What's in it for me? Nothing? Ain't happening, yo."

You know Dean that it was government policies (I admit passed by both parties with the Rs going along to get along) that removed incentives for these large companies to do research and development and turn their efforts to buying established companies as safer investments for their capital.

If, by driving up the cost of R&D with onerous regulations you make the development of new (or innovative) products and ideas much more risky because of unpredictable outcomes or incalculable costs or high liabilities or much higher administrative/legal costs, YOU can expect CEOs to take their companies capital to less risky ventures. First your party causes (through unanticipated consequences?), and then it damns human nature of CEOs for acting according to the incentives they’ve created.

Sarbanes Oxley is a fine example touted as reform; by driving up the costs of new IPOs, IPOs have left the American marketplace as public companies and are opening overseas with China now leading America with new IPOs. The cost of initiating a new public offering has risen from maybe a hundred grand, well above the projected 280k to 2.8 million.

Republicans don't trash education and education is not paid for by the Federal government. It's paid for at home at the state and township level, and the feds have done nothing but add costs and interfered with outcomes. Republicans complain about that interference to their schools that drives up property taxes (the true funding mechanism of public education), and the shift to the feds of every aspect of their child’s education while removing studies that reflect their local values.

And if you haven't read my post which referred to Zubrin's comments, it’s not about going to Mars instead of the moon, it's about the administration's coming budget cuts which will damage scientific research platforms under NASA. This is not being left to private companies, it is being done away with, leaving payload delivery more to private companies (which I agree with btw).

I wish Republicans would "man up" and quit saying "both parties". When Bush went into Iraq, the support that came from Democrats was because of such propaganda as "You are with us or with the terrorists". Who knew the President would create and lie America into a fake war?

It was less than a year ago Republicans held millions of Americans hostage.

Senate Republicans pledge not to take up any issues, including extending unemployment benefits, until the Bush tax cuts

Unemployment benefits: not until Bush tax cuts pass, Senate GOP says - CSMonitor.com

Christian Science Monitor. Oh those Christians, so liberal. Yea, sure.

Republicans say Obama was weak because he couldn't let millions of American suffer. But what is that saying about the party of "Let him die" and who applauds executions?

Many times Democrats vote with Republicans is because they are trying to keep the "damage" down. Republicans are like Midas, only everything they touch turns to shit.

There you go again, obfuscating rather than answering the premise of the post; We are not talking about Iraq..... Try to stay on the topic. And what I was doing was giving at least some responsibility for the problems we have with job kiilling regulations to both sides, including my own for the wakness they show. The truth of the matter is that Ds do shit like I described for the most venal of reasons, without regards to the damage, and Rs do it because they hope to get something in return at a later date from the Ds. and that too is venal.

The reason the Ds so willingly do damage is because they know that they will always speak with the only voice that reaches the public through their lap-dog media, and laer the blame will go entirely to the Rs who have no real voice. Then they can do more of the same, while claiming to working to fix the damage they have done.

It is venal for Dodd and Frank to write a 2200 page Dodd-Frank financial overhaul. The very same people who were directly involved in the disaster, and it was nothing but a Cover-your-Ass operation; clear because not a single line in it applied to the GSE's Fannie and Freddie and the moral hazard their policies imply, and while claiming to prevent future "too big to fail" scenarios, the law all but guarantees it in the future. And when it does happen again in spite of this failed law, (which it will) it will be because the private sector entities it was "suposed" to deal with are even larger than they were before due largely to actions by the Administration/Treasury.

 

[paulitician]

Future Space travel and exploration will be done by the private sector for the most part. Our Government is broke and NASA will be hit very hard. That's already happening with this current President. How ironic it is that the Socialists/Progressives will now destroy NASA and allow the private sector to take control. Destroying a big Government-run agency to help the "Evil Capitalists?" Very un-Socialist/Progressive-like. But i don't think they're doing it intentionally. It's more about awful mis-management and waste. Looks like NASA will be a causualty in these terrible economic times for our nation.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Obama has NOT cut NASA's budget.

In fact, it's higher than it ever was before.

 

[paulitician]

Bye Bye NASA. It was nice knowin ya.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

NASA enlists scientists from a multitude of specialties within the fields of astronomy, biology, chemistry, geology, materials science and physics. As NASA has extended its presence on the final frontier, they have defined new fields and expanded knowledge and technology on almost every front.

The only "expanded knowledge" that many of these listed scientists face, is found in handling the other end of a pink slip.

NASA is expected to begin issuing layoff notices to about 3,200 contractors, agency officials have said.
Shuttle Workers Face Big Layoffs as NASA Fleet Retires | NASA's Space Shuttle Program | Atlantis' STS-135 Mission | Space.com

Great! It's bad enough Obama wants to push more dependency on countries like the Mid East for our oil, and China for our "bail-out" loans. Now he wants the United States to stick out it's thumb to Russia in hopes for a ride? I thought the left was against sending American jobs overseas?

 

[Unkotare]

Republicans make up their own science

Yes the continued comments from the left like


Maybe, could be, possibly and might be are powerful arguments you guys have..

Magical Creation PROVES Republicans make up their own science. Nothing wins a debate like "truth".

Nobody is impressed that you are an insecure little atheist, dog.

 

[Unkotare]

[

When Bush went into Iraq, the support that came from Democrats was because of such propaganda as "You are with us or with the terrorists". Who knew the President would create and lie America into a fake war?
.

If any of that were true that would be an interesting point. As it is, you are just another brainless, partisan fucking idiot.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

I'm a huge fan of the space program...always have been, but its my understanding that two unpaid for wars, unpaid for tax cuts and an unpaid for Medicare Part D program topped with Wall Street Greed and malfeasance has left this country in a bit of a pickle financially.

I mean, we're supposed to be on a budget right? Justify spending on NASA when the GnOP wants to cut Social Security and give coupons for old folks to purchase Medicare.

Come on Private Industry...time for you to take over without all that government welfare. Where is my commercial space flight?

Then why does this administration go on to add a big expense like Obamacare, if we are REALLY supposed to be going off of a budget?

Health care law won't rein in costs, study says - Washington Times
Medicare Actuary: Obamacare Will Triple the Growth Rate of Net Insurance Costs - Forbes
Obama concedes health care law won't control costs | Philip Klein | Columnists | Washington Examiner
Obamacare | The Weekly Standard

 

[USArmyRetired]

What America needs to be doing with NASA is militarizing space with weapons with offensive strike capabilities for our protection.

 

[Unkotare]

Only if we can practice on YOU, douchebag.

 

[American Horse]

And by "risky" they mean "What's in it for me? Nothing? Ain't happening, yo."

You know Dean that it was government policies (I admit passed by both parties with the Rs going along to get along) that removed incentives for these large companies to do research and development and turn their efforts to buying established companies as safer investments for their capital.

If, by driving up the cost of R&D with onerous regulations you make the development of new (or innovative) products and ideas much more risky because of unpredictable outcomes or incalculable costs or high liabilities or much higher administrative/legal costs, YOU can expect CEOs to take their companies capital to less risky ventures. First your party causes (through unanticipated consequences?), and then it damns human nature of CEOs for acting according to the incentives they’ve created.

Sarbanes Oxley is a fine example touted as reform; by driving up the costs of new IPOs, IPOs have left the American marketplace as public companies and are opening overseas with China now leading America with new IPOs. The cost of initiating a new public offering has risen from maybe a hundred grand, well above the projected 280k to 2.8 million.

Republicans don't trash education and education is not paid for by the Federal government. It's paid for at home at the state and township level, and the feds have done nothing but add costs and interfered with outcomes. Republicans do complain about that interference to their schools that drives up property taxes (the true funding mechanism of public education), and the shift to the feds of every aspect of their child’s education while removing studies that reflect their local values.

And if you haven't read my post which referred to Zubrin's comments, it’s not about going to Mars instead of the moon, it's about the administration's coming budget cuts which will damage scientific research platforms under NASA. This is not being left to private companies, it is being done away with, leaving payload delivery more to private companies (which I agree with btw).

"incentives" for large companies?

Isn't that welfare for mega corporations that get to keep the patents that taxpayers paid for?

Corporations want all the benefits of R&D without assuming any of the risk. The reason they don't invest in R&D is it involves long term benefits while they are looking for quick profits

Sorry RW (for you) but the D party creates more disencentives than productive incentives, and as loyal party members they can count on their minions to support any legislation they pass and overlook all the consequences, regardless the social/economic costs.

 

[007]

We've been to space... now what?

So I'll ask again... we've been to space, now what? What's the point of further maned space flight beyond earth? There is nothing we could possibly inhabit as earth that's within millions of light years away, so what is the point of space exploration. We'd have to fold space or find out how to time travel to even get to another planet, and that kind of knowledge could be a thousand years off, if ever. We're pretty much relegated to poking around in our own little space around this planet, and we've already accomplished that. So why blow billions and billions of dollars on shit that isn't even possible when we have such massive debt problems?

I knew no one would be able to answer my question. So, I'll answer myself... unless we come up with GOD LIKE intelligence and engineering that will enable us to travel billions and billions of light years away in a matter of seconds or minutes, we may as well be just shooting a pay load of hard, cold cash straight out into space bound for no where, and not doing anyone any good. It's a worthless endeavor. Inhabit Mars you say? How? Who's going to PAY for that?