Need to bring back the draft

[ginscpy]

will probably be watered -down.

But big-shots like Ali and Elvis had to contend with military conscription.

Fucking have hated the vol military since day 1.

I was born in 1953.

 

[Revere]

Actually, Elvis served, Ali dodged.

 

[ginscpy]

As long as they are held accountable - don't care.

Ali was not a coward.

 

[Revere]

It's not a draft if you get to dodge, then walk away like nothing happened.

 

[Father Time]

Nothing says American freedom like forced labor.

 

[Toome]

Volunteer militaries are highly motivated, highly skilled and very lethal.

I'd rather have the soldier next to me be someone who volunteered to be there rather than someone who was compelled to be there by law.

Vietnam was a sneak peek of what 21st century warfare would be like. It was viewed as an anomaly, unconventional and atypical of modern warfare. All the generals, admirals and other so-called experts thought the war of the future would be fought at the Fulda Gap between two superpowers with multi-dimensional forces from the air, land and sea. That war never happened.

The pattern has been consistent with Vietnam: Grenada, Haiti, Somalia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan and a dozen combat actions that the public isn't even aware ever took place. you can't fight this type of warfare with draftees. You need motivated warriors who are mission-oriented and willing to think outside the box to achieve results.

The bigger issue isn't the nature of warfighting forces. The issue is when and why an administration sends troops into harm's way and the overall political objectives it wants the military to achieve.

Special operations IS the future of warfare. John F. Kennedy knew that, Ronald Reagan understood it, and George W. Bush knew it as well. The problem is within the walls of the Pentagon. But with people like Pete Schoomacker, Henry Shelton and Dick Cody being posted to senior positions, there's hope that the Pentagon will eventually pull its collective head out of its ass and get on board. It's a classic struggle between straight-leg infantry types and snake eaters.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Volunteer militaries are highly motivated, highly skilled and very lethal.

That would be the real and only reason why those who call for a draft to be re-instated, want a draft reinstated.

Regardless of what they say the reason is.

 

[Mr Natural]

Isn't it ironic that the only war in modern history that needed to be fought was fought and won by a largely drafted Army.

 

[pinqy]

I've been in the army, active and reserves, for 22 years. I've also worked with Uzbek and Russian soldiers...conscript armies. We don't need that at all. Working with the Uzbeks, they had 2 officers for a platoon, while the US has one. Their NCOs are not experienced soldiers, but only top of their class in basic and have no intitiative or leadership abilities. Unless there was an officer directly present, the NCOs would not direct their soldiers to do anything. That would never happen in the US volunteer army.

And soldiering has gotten more complicated since the days of shove a musket in the guy's hands and put him in line. We need more independence and confidence and you can't reliabley get that from a conscript...most just want to do their time and get out. We have had remarkble and skilled soldiers from drafts, but volunteers are far more reliable and far more likely to be professionals.

 

[SFC Ollie]

You may draft all you want for some civilian service. While I believe that military service would help many people learn a trade and instill a sense of pride in themselves, and I believe that a draft would reduce criminal activity.

I really wouldn't want those draftees to be serving in the active military. Our military is doing just fine without it. Don't need it and the country really doesn't want it.

 

[Toome]

You may draft all you want for some civilian service. While I believe that military service would help many people learn a trade and instill a sense of pride in themselves, and I believe that a draft would reduce criminal activity.

I really wouldn't want those draftees to be serving in the active military. Our military is doing just fine without it. Don't need it and the country really doesn't want it.

I agree that there's a lot of good that comes from serving in the military. Very few civilian companies trust 21-24 year olds to not only supervise 11 individuals, but to also ensure they are clothed, fed, equipped, cared for medically and paid, but that's what the Army does with a buck sergeant squad leader. Civilian organizations do not have a career development plan designed to take a young individual from basically the equivalent of team leader or foreman all the way to staff management and executive management level.

A soldier is entrusted with millions of dollars in equipment and is held accountable every step of the way from the moment that piece of equipment is signed out until it is returned. The responsibility increases proportionally as the soldier increases in rank.

And I know of no organization that instills a sense of purpose, encourages innovation and builds a true sense of teamwork and comraderie as the military.

I only speak of the Army because that's my background, but the same applies to all the services. The military builds character. Period.

I don't want the military to be an experiment for people whose parents failed to teach them the basics. In this day and age, we need troops who are motivated and not young people who are forced to be there because the law says they go to jail if they refuse.

Different times, my friend.

One of the best NCOs I ever served with was a CSM who killed someone out of self defense when he was a kid and was told by a judge to either join the military or go to jail. He joined the Army, volunteered for Airborne and Special Forces, served a couple tours in Vietnam and eventually made a career in the Dark Side of the Force. He was a soldier's soldier when he was the Brigade CSM; never forgot his roots; always handled Sergeant's Business although some officers had difficulties with his Old School ways. They sure don't make 'em like that anymore.

 

[uscitizen]

will probably be watered -down.

But big-shots like Ali and Elvis had to contend with military conscription.

Fucking have hated the vol military since day 1.

I was born in 1953.

Yep since you are not draft age now.

I was drafted and still hate the military since day 1.

Not the troops, but the military.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Volunteer militaries are highly motivated, highly skilled and very lethal.

<snip: not interested in the rest, because it rests on the above>

So were the American conscript armies of WWI and WWII and Korea and Vietnam.

And, no, I was not drafted. I was a highly sought after volunteer, according to the recruiters , and became a highly skilled merchant of death from above. My grandfather was a draftee and was awarded two Silver Stars, my dad was a draftee and was awarded a DSC, Silver Star, and a Bronze Star.

Will we have a conscript army in the near future? No, simply because the executive does not want to answer to the families of dead conscripts. Ask the survivors of the Democratic political camps of 1952 and 1968.

 

[SFC Ollie]

"Sergeants Business"

Been a long time since I've heard that phrase.......


But it was Sergeants who knew how to get things done.

 

[topspin]

Plenty of dumb rednecks dying to kill someone, no need for the draft.

 

[uscitizen]

Plenty of dumb rednecks dying to kill someone, no need for the draft.

True we now have the Tea Party for them to join.

 

[Toome]

So were the American conscript armies of WWI and WWII and Korea and Vietnam.

A drafted military simply will not work today. The nature of warfare has changed since 1944.

This is 2010.

 

[editec]

When the people can avoid the outcomes of their wars, they are more like to support unnecessary wars.

That's the best argument for (AND against!) a universal draft, as far as I can see.

The arguments against having one that some of you have advanced in this thread are quite good, too.

In the first place we don't need a huge military, right now.

In the second, I agree that mercenary armies are more professional They probably give us more bang for the buck.

But the difference between what leadship does with a mercenary army (like we have now) and what leaders can do with an army of draftees is obvious, too.

In a time of real national crises, an army of draftees can do amazing things. They will give their last best measure for something they believe in. Look at the sacrifices Americans made during WWII.

But when it comes to draftees supporting wars of empire?

Well, we saw how well that worked out for us with the citizen in endentured servitude soldiers in Viet Nam, didn't we?

 

[code1211]

Isn't it ironic that the only war in modern history that needed to be fought was fought and won by a largely drafted Army.

Which war might that be?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Excellent posts. Nothing in the nature of warfare, essentially, has changed other than the concentration of Mass becomes vulnerable to atomic and chemical weapons. The advantage of conscript armies are obvious, as are the disadvantage, from leadership's point of view, that the leaders of a conscript force are held more quickly accountable in a democracy than are those who command volunteer groups.