Natural gas to kill electric car!!!

[skookerasbil]

Not that this would be earth shatterring news mind you...............


“Only about 17,000 out of 12.8 million [vehicles] sold in 2011 were Leafs and Volts,” Duoba told TPM, also noting that: “At least for some time, compared to plug-in vehicle batteries, CNG storage offers lower weight, higher energy storage and lower costs - as well as faster refueling/recharging.”


Argonne National Laboratory Expands Research Into Natural Gas Vehicles | TPM Idea Lab



The k00ks will be heartbroken...........perhaps they will one day get it..........its all about the market. In the end, all the fantasy stuff gets shitcanned.

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[Mad Scientist]

I love Hybrid technology. Boosting a gasoline engine with an electric motor is pure genius. I look forward to the day when I can put a hybrid crate motor into my 2004 Dodge Ram.

But all electric cars just aren't good enough. And until a Quantum Leap in electric generation and storage occurs, they won't be practical any time soon.

We do have plenty of Natural Gas though don't we?

 

[Ariux]

Hybrids are good for city cars.

All-Electric is stupid.

Gas vs. natural gas isn't a big deal.

 

[skookerasbil]

You notice..........threads like this dont get much traction. Too much.................

Gotta be tough on these people..........imagine........its like a little kid finding out Santa is a ruse. Tough to swallow.

 

[Hardcandy]

You notice..........threads like this dont get much traction. Too much.................

Gotta be tough on these people..........imagine........its like a little kid finding out Santa is a ruse. Tough to swallow.

The left will without exception reject any energy solution rooted in fossil fuels, which they have been brainwashed to demonize, reject and ignore regardless of it's effectiveness.

All that is necessary to make a lie believable is for the teller to control the flow of information...Thankfully, convincing the human race that it's responsible for Global Warming is simply to big a lie to sustain to fruition.

But that doesn't distract from the fact that the lie has and continues to be a major burden on the economies of the industrialized nations, especially their working classes...With the exception of Red China of course.

The gullible liberal pawns are at war with reality and common sense, spurred on by a Progressive/Marxist ideology which controls much of the American media and journalism as well as its loyal wealthy allies in Tinseltown.

The purveyors of Marxism, under the banner of Progressivism, have also infiltrated our universities where they have been and continue to indoctrinate the youth of America since the early 20th century, which came to light in the 1960's revolution.

These radical, left-wing, anti-capitalist, America haters have also taken control of public as well as private sector unions by buying their support with taxpayer dollars and government favoritism in the form of special policies.

They also buy the votes of minorities with government benefits and socialist programs and then tell them a racist American capitalist system is responsible for their problems and the Democrat Party is the solution.

The left lives by the lie which makes the truth its worst enemy!

 

[ItsjustmeIthink]

Not that this would be earth shatterring news mind you...............


“Only about 17,000 out of 12.8 million [vehicles] sold in 2011 were Leafs and Volts,” Duoba told TPM, also noting that: “At least for some time, compared to plug-in vehicle batteries, CNG storage offers lower weight, higher energy storage and lower costs - as well as faster refueling/recharging.”


Argonne National Laboratory Expands Research Into Natural Gas Vehicles | TPM Idea Lab



The k00ks will be heartbroken...........perhaps they will one day get it..........its all about the market. In the end, all the fantasy stuff gets shitcanned.

I agree natural gas is a good idea, if safely used. I'm still interested in what they'll do with hydrogen (pretty dangerous atm, sadly)

But regarding the future of electric cars:
I think you're basing too much of that off the Volt/leafs, while it is a shitty car, its just one brand. All-electric cars are something new, combustion engines were something new once too. Its going to take years and a lot of tweaking for electric cars to be perfected. The combustion engine went through the same phase, and just look how popular it is now.

The Volt's terribad. FFS, it goes 35 miles on a single charge. My car goes the same distance off a quarter of my gas tank. Plus i've never seen a recharge "pump" ever around where I live, and its a city of 150,000 people (not huge, but you'd think there would be at least one) What I'm saying here is that electric cars practicality is further hindered by Americas present infrastructure. Again, gas powered cars went through the same phase, i.e. relatively few gas stations when the automobile was first unveiled in early America.

I agree with Mad Scientist about electric cars need a boost in their tech, though I wager if they became increasing profitable you'd be surprised how fast their technology is improved.

 

[westwall]

Not that this would be earth shatterring news mind you...............


“Only about 17,000 out of 12.8 million [vehicles] sold in 2011 were Leafs and Volts,” Duoba told TPM, also noting that: “At least for some time, compared to plug-in vehicle batteries, CNG storage offers lower weight, higher energy storage and lower costs - as well as faster refueling/recharging.”


Argonne National Laboratory Expands Research Into Natural Gas Vehicles | TPM Idea Lab



The k00ks will be heartbroken...........perhaps they will one day get it..........its all about the market. In the end, all the fantasy stuff gets shitcanned.

I agree natural gas is a good idea, if safely used. I'm still interested in what they'll do with hydrogen (pretty dangerous atm, sadly)

But regarding the future of electric cars:
I think you're basing too much of that off the Volt/leafs, while it is a shitty car, its just one brand. All-electric cars are something new, combustion engines were something new once too. Its going to take years and a lot of tweaking for electric cars to be perfected. The combustion engine went through the same phase, and just look how popular it is now.

The Volt's terribad. FFS, it goes 35 miles on a single charge. My car goes the same distance off a quarter of my gas tank. Plus i've never seen a recharge "pump" ever around where I live, and its a city of 150,000 people (not huge, but you'd think there would be at least one) What I'm saying here is that electric cars practicality is further hindered by Americas present infrastructure. Again, gas powered cars went through the same phase, i.e. relatively few gas stations when the automobile was first unveiled in early America.

I agree with Mad Scientist about electric cars need a boost in their tech, though I wager if they became increasing profitable you'd be surprised how fast their technology is improved.

For EV's to be competitive they have to be as efficient as a ICE vehicle. They don't neccessarily need to be the same cost as a regular vehicle but they MUST be at least equal in efficiency.

They are a long way off from there.

 

[Old Rocks]

Not that this would be earth shatterring news mind you...............


“Only about 17,000 out of 12.8 million [vehicles] sold in 2011 were Leafs and Volts,” Duoba told TPM, also noting that: “At least for some time, compared to plug-in vehicle batteries, CNG storage offers lower weight, higher energy storage and lower costs - as well as faster refueling/recharging.”


Argonne National Laboratory Expands Research Into Natural Gas Vehicles | TPM Idea Lab



The k00ks will be heartbroken...........perhaps they will one day get it..........its all about the market. In the end, all the fantasy stuff gets shitcanned.

I agree natural gas is a good idea, if safely used. I'm still interested in what they'll do with hydrogen (pretty dangerous atm, sadly)

But regarding the future of electric cars:
I think you're basing too much of that off the Volt/leafs, while it is a shitty car, its just one brand. All-electric cars are something new, combustion engines were something new once too. Its going to take years and a lot of tweaking for electric cars to be perfected. The combustion engine went through the same phase, and just look how popular it is now.

The Volt's terribad. FFS, it goes 35 miles on a single charge. My car goes the same distance off a quarter of my gas tank. Plus i've never seen a recharge "pump" ever around where I live, and its a city of 150,000 people (not huge, but you'd think there would be at least one) What I'm saying here is that electric cars practicality is further hindered by Americas present infrastructure. Again, gas powered cars went through the same phase, i.e. relatively few gas stations when the automobile was first unveiled in early America.

I agree with Mad Scientist about electric cars need a boost in their tech, though I wager if they became increasing profitable you'd be surprised how fast their technology is improved.

For EV's to be competitive they have to be as efficient as a ICE vehicle. They don't neccessarily need to be the same cost as a regular vehicle but they MUST be at least equal in efficiency.

They are a long way off from there.

Electric Cars versus the ICE


But I decided to double-check the efficiency numbers, and came across the following link:

Debunking the Myth of EVs and Smokestacks

Now you know a love a good debunking, so I had a read. It’s a bit dated, but the information was still worthwhile. I ran across Table 4, shown below, which I thought was quite interesting:




EVs & Power Plants ICE & Fuel Refining


Processing 39% (Electricity Generation) 92% (Refining)

Transmission Lines 95% -

Charging 88% -

Vehicle Efficiency 88% 15%



Overall Efficiency 28 14%



Table 4. Operating Efficiency Comparison Between EVs and ICE Vehicles


The bottom line is more or less what I expected, but the vehicle efficiency at 88% is higher than I would have guessed. Anyone with experience in that area? If the efficiency is correct (also note Tables 3 and 5), that provides a compelling argument for electric transport. Now we just need to get those darn batteries sorted. (The plug-in Prius is only going to be able to go 7 miles on battery power).

Well, as usual, ol' Walleyes has it precisely backwards. The ICE is, at best, 14% efficient, the EV, even using the existing grid, 28%. Of course, if one has a grid parrallel solar installation, then the efficiency of the EV is over 70%.

While the Prius Plug in only gets 7 miles on EV mode, the C-Max Energi, a small Ford SUV, gets 20, and 47/47. That would put it well over the 2025 mandate of 54.5 mpg overall.

 

[westwall]

I agree natural gas is a good idea, if safely used. I'm still interested in what they'll do with hydrogen (pretty dangerous atm, sadly)

But regarding the future of electric cars:
I think you're basing too much of that off the Volt/leafs, while it is a shitty car, its just one brand. All-electric cars are something new, combustion engines were something new once too. Its going to take years and a lot of tweaking for electric cars to be perfected. The combustion engine went through the same phase, and just look how popular it is now.

The Volt's terribad. FFS, it goes 35 miles on a single charge. My car goes the same distance off a quarter of my gas tank. Plus i've never seen a recharge "pump" ever around where I live, and its a city of 150,000 people (not huge, but you'd think there would be at least one) What I'm saying here is that electric cars practicality is further hindered by Americas present infrastructure. Again, gas powered cars went through the same phase, i.e. relatively few gas stations when the automobile was first unveiled in early America.

I agree with Mad Scientist about electric cars need a boost in their tech, though I wager if they became increasing profitable you'd be surprised how fast their technology is improved.

For EV's to be competitive they have to be as efficient as a ICE vehicle. They don't neccessarily need to be the same cost as a regular vehicle but they MUST be at least equal in efficiency.

They are a long way off from there.

Electric Cars versus the ICE


But I decided to double-check the efficiency numbers, and came across the following link:

Debunking the Myth of EVs and Smokestacks

Now you know a love a good debunking, so I had a read. It’s a bit dated, but the information was still worthwhile. I ran across Table 4, shown below, which I thought was quite interesting:




EVs & Power Plants ICE & Fuel Refining


Processing 39% (Electricity Generation) 92% (Refining)

Transmission Lines 95% -

Charging 88% -

Vehicle Efficiency 88% 15%



Overall Efficiency 28 14%



Table 4. Operating Efficiency Comparison Between EVs and ICE Vehicles


The bottom line is more or less what I expected, but the vehicle efficiency at 88% is higher than I would have guessed. Anyone with experience in that area? If the efficiency is correct (also note Tables 3 and 5), that provides a compelling argument for electric transport. Now we just need to get those darn batteries sorted. (The plug-in Prius is only going to be able to go 7 miles on battery power).

Well, as usual, ol' Walleyes has it precisely backwards. The ICE is, at best, 14% efficient, the EV, even using the existing grid, 28%. Of course, if one has a grid parrallel solar installation, then the efficiency of the EV is over 70%.

While the Prius Plug in only gets 7 miles on EV mode, the C-Max Energi, a small Ford SUV, gets 20, and 47/47. That would put it well over the 2025 mandate of 54.5 mpg overall.

If they were as efficient as the claims made they would be everywhere. The myth is not debunked. It's a simple fact of life that people want efficient transport. EV's aren't there yet. They may get there, and I hope they do. But they're not there yet.

 

[uscitizen]

Not that this would be earth shatterring news mind you...............


“Only about 17,000 out of 12.8 million [vehicles] sold in 2011 were Leafs and Volts,” Duoba told TPM, also noting that: “At least for some time, compared to plug-in vehicle batteries, CNG storage offers lower weight, higher energy storage and lower costs - as well as faster refueling/recharging.”


Argonne National Laboratory Expands Research Into Natural Gas Vehicles | TPM Idea Lab



The k00ks will be heartbroken...........perhaps they will one day get it..........its all about the market. In the end, all the fantasy stuff gets shitcanned.

Just wait till some of that LNG leaks in your garage.

 

[uscitizen]

Hybrids are there on efficiency. 60MPG.

 

[Hardcandy]

Hybrids are there on efficiency. 60MPG.

True efficiency is measured by affordability, something hybrids are currently not.

 

[westwall]

Hybrids are there on efficiency. 60MPG.

Ever hear me denigrate a hybrid? Nope. I like them. I don't liek the fact that they do more environmental damage than a standard vehicle but with time that will change.

 

[skookerasbil]

You notice..........threads like this dont get much traction. Too much.................

Gotta be tough on these people..........imagine........its like a little kid finding out Santa is a ruse. Tough to swallow.

The left will without exception reject any energy solution rooted in fossil fuels, which they have been brainwashed to demonize, reject and ignore regardless of it's effectiveness.

All that is necessary to make a lie believable is for the teller to control the flow of information...Thankfully, convincing the human race that it's responsible for Global Warming is simply to big a lie to sustain to fruition.

But that doesn't distract from the fact that the lie has and continues to be a major burden on the economies of the industrialized nations, especially their working classes...With the exception of Red China of course.

The gullible liberal pawns are at war with reality and common sense, spurred on by a Progressive/Marxist ideology which controls much of the American media and journalism as well as its loyal wealthy allies in Tinseltown.

The purveyors of Marxism, under the banner of Progressivism, have also infiltrated our universities where they have been and continue to indoctrinate the youth of America since the early 20th century, which came to light in the 1960's revolution.

These radical, left-wing, anti-capitalist, America haters have also taken control of public as well as private sector unions by buying their support with taxpayer dollars and government favoritism in the form of special policies.

They also buy the votes of minorities with government benefits and socialist programs and then tell them a racist American capitalist system is responsible for their problems and the Democrat Party is the solution.

The left lives by the lie which makes the truth its worst enemy!

OK...........Im loving this gal in here!!!

Hey HARDCANDY..........and did you hear today that another 200 million is heading to another of these BS solar companies? Yup........ahhhhhhhh ( draws long toke on ciggy in classic Denis Leary fashion). The government in the business of more risk capital with the taxpayers money. This one has another fancy but phoney name.........SOLOPOWER.


Solar startup SoloPower aims to do what Solyndra couldn’t — Cleantech News and Analysis


Only the hopelessly duped think there is going to be any outcome other than that of Solyndra.


This kind of nuttiness is just fine with the k00ks..........meanwhile, my organization here in New York that runs group homes for developmentally disabled adults has to absorb a cut of about 3 million in revenue in 2013.

 

[mamooth]

How does cheaper electricity generation from natural gas doom electric cars? Logic is clearly not the strong point of some posters here. The political brainwashing they've undergone seems to have destroyed their reasoning ability completely, leaving them capable only of spouting idiot mantras at anything they perceive somehow as "liberal".

Plugging in is easier than playing with lng, which is restricted to fleet vehicles because it's hard to handle. They are two separate vehicle usage classes, and one tech really does not affect the other.

And assuming that battery tech won't advance while lng tech will advance is just dumb. 2012 Leaf, 70 mile realistic range. 2013 Leaf, 90 mile realistic range. Battery tech steadily marches on.

 

[westwall]

How does cheaper electricity generation from natural gas doom electric cars? Logic is clearly not the strong point of some posters here. The political brainwashing they've undergone seems to have destroyed their reasoning ability completely, leaving them capable only of spouting idiot mantras at anything they perceive somehow as "liberal".

Plugging in is easier than playing with lng, which is restricted to fleet vehicles because it's hard to handle. They are two separate vehicle usage classes, and one tech really does not affect the other.

And assuming that battery tech won't advance while lng tech will advance is just dumb. 2012 Leaf, 70 mile realistic range. 2013 Leaf, 90 mile realistic range. Battery tech steadily marches on.

Reading comprehension clearly isn't yours. The OP reffered to natural gas powered vehicles. Next time, before you make a fool of yourself, you might actually READ the post before flapping your gums.

 

[mamooth]

Could you please address the topic instead of reflexively doing the ragey-stalker thing at me? Thank you.

The topic is the silliness of declaring lng cars will eliminate electric cars.

It's silly for the near future, because the two types of vehicles occupy different niches.

And it's silly for the far future, because it assumes lng tech will advance, but battery tech won't advance.

 

[skookerasbil]

How does cheaper electricity generation from natural gas doom electric cars? Logic is clearly not the strong point of some posters here. The political brainwashing they've undergone seems to have destroyed their reasoning ability completely, leaving them capable only of spouting idiot mantras at anything they perceive somehow as "liberal".

Plugging in is easier than playing with lng, which is restricted to fleet vehicles because it's hard to handle. They are two separate vehicle usage classes, and one tech really does not affect the other.

And assuming that battery tech won't advance while lng tech will advance is just dumb. 2012 Leaf, 70 mile realistic range. 2013 Leaf, 90 mile realistic range. Battery tech steadily marches on.

The sentiments of a PC drone.

Actually, it is a few of us in here who have not submitted to the brainwashing of the PC establishment zombies, which causes mental meltdowns amongst those on the far left.

What the haters dont seem to realize is that in the Northeast, plugging in is ANYTHING but it is hardly green. Far from it...........people in the whole northeast espousing the wonder of electric cars might as well be standing on a street corner with their thumb up their ass while holding a sign that says, "Kick me..........Im an idiot!!".

But it is what it is...................

The bottom line is..........electric cars and hybrid cars are gay and nobody wants them. Pardon me if that blows the shit out of the whole Disney Green World Utopia magic.

 

[uscitizen]

A group of gorollias is called...

Wait for it...

A congress