Nationalized health care inserted in the Stimulus package

[jreeves]

Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.” Bloomberg.com: Opinion

Wow, that will create jobs dictating to doctors what treatments are appropriate....

 

[Sinatra]

Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.” Bloomberg.com: Opinion

Wow, that will create jobs dictating to doctors what treatments are appropriate....

Good post- this news is just breaking big now.

Should be picking up speed over the next 24 hours.

 

[Diuretic]

Does this mean that private companies won't be dictating to doctors about your health care?

Does it mean that there will be efficiencies? Will it cut back on the amount of unrequired but financially rewarding tests?

Will doctors eventually get rid of their God complex?*

This inquiring mind wishes to know.


*admitted gross generalisation but it happens

 

[del]

Does this mean that private companies won't be dictating to doctors about your health care?

Does it mean that there will be efficiencies? Will it cut back on the amount of unrequired but financially rewarding tests?

Will doctors eventually get rid of their God complex?*

This inquiring mind wishes to know.


*admitted gross generalisation but it happens

in order:

no the govt will be dictating.

it may, but i doubt any savings will be realized. see above.

no, it's a stimulus bill, not a miracle.

 

[jillian]

insurance companies already dictate care.

how do you know the standard isn't higher in this bill?

answer: you don't.

and it governs only medicaid as far as i could tell.

last time i checked i wasn't medicaid eligible.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.” Bloomberg.com: Opinion

Wow, that will create jobs dictating to doctors what treatments are appropriate....

Excellent post, but alas, those who put this bunch in office will shrug it off. I believe that they will also shrug off the economic toll associated with same. Dick Morris refers to the effect on the GDP:
"As he funds every liberal dream - from alternative energy production to infrastructure renovation to more federal revenue sharing - he will force a massive expansion in the size of government for a decade to come. If the proportion of our $14 trillion GDP absorbed by the public sector increases by $1 trillion dollars, it will mean that government’s share will rise from its current 33% to about 40%, bringing us close to the United Kingdom’s ratio. If Obama adds a major expansion of health care to the mix, the proportion could reach into the mid-forties, French and German territory."
http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/01/22/beware-obamas-trojan-horse/

Many on the boards have given examples of the non-stimulative aspects of this bill, and even the CBO has found it to be worse than no bill at all, but too many are uninformed, and too many more are resistant to becoming informed.

But, glad you began this thread.

 

[jreeves]

insurance companies already dictate care.

how do you know the standard isn't higher in this bill?

answer: you don't.

and it governs only medicaid as far as i could tell.

last time i checked i wasn't medicaid eligible.

Do you have any proof?

 

[jreeves]

insurance companies already dictate care.

how do you know the standard isn't higher in this bill?

answer: you don't.

and it governs only medicaid as far as i could tell.

last time i checked i wasn't medicaid eligible.

Do you have any proof?

Have you seen this?
Democratic Stealth Care - WSJ.com
Under "stimulus," Medicaid is now on offer not to just poor Americans, but Americans who have lost their jobs. And not just Americans who have lost their jobs, but their spouses and their children. And not Americans who recently lost their jobs, but those who lost jobs, say, early last year. And not just Americans who already lost their jobs, but those who will lose their jobs up to 2011. The federal government is graciously footing the whole bill. The legislation also forbids states to apply income tests in most cases.House Democrat Henry Waxman was so thrilled by this blowout, it was left to Republicans to remind him that the very banking millionaires he dragged to the Hill last year for a grilling would now qualify for government aid. His response? A GOP proposal to limit subsidies to Americans with incomes under $1 million was accepted during markup, but had disappeared by final passage. In this new health-care nirvana, even the rich are welcome. CBO estimates? An additional 1.2 million on the federal Medicaid dime in 2009.

The "stimulus" also hijacks Cobra, a program that lets the unemployed retain access to their former company health benefits -- usually for about 18 months. The new stimulus permits any former employee over the age of 55 to keep using Cobra right up until they qualify for Medicare at age 65. And here's the kicker: Whereas employees were previously responsible for paying their health premiums while on Cobra, now the feds will pay 65%. CBO estimates? Seven million Americans will have the feds mostly pay their insurance bills in 2009.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Managed care companies have a very strong voice in what your doctor can or cannot do. This is often based on the cost of the procedure involved. Is this the best method of guaranteeing the best care?

I worked for one for 7 years.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Going in more detail through the article, I have to point out that currently Medicare already has restrictions on what can be done. The article does not point out in detail what more would be affected.

AlsoBetsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed are her own

The Hudson Institute is a conservative think tank for whatever that is worth.

No, they won't kill our grandparents. They are too strong a voting bloc.

 

[Annie]

insurance companies already dictate care.

how do you know the standard isn't higher in this bill?

answer: you don't.

and it governs only medicaid as far as i could tell.

last time i checked i wasn't medicaid eligible.

Do you have any proof?

Have you seen this?
Democratic Stealth Care - WSJ.com
Under "stimulus," Medicaid is now on offer not to just poor Americans, but Americans who have lost their jobs. And not just Americans who have lost their jobs, but their spouses and their children. And not Americans who recently lost their jobs, but those who lost jobs, say, early last year. And not just Americans who already lost their jobs, but those who will lose their jobs up to 2011. The federal government is graciously footing the whole bill. The legislation also forbids states to apply income tests in most cases.House Democrat Henry Waxman was so thrilled by this blowout, it was left to Republicans to remind him that the very banking millionaires he dragged to the Hill last year for a grilling would now qualify for government aid. His response? A GOP proposal to limit subsidies to Americans with incomes under $1 million was accepted during markup, but had disappeared by final passage. In this new health-care nirvana, even the rich are welcome. CBO estimates? An additional 1.2 million on the federal Medicaid dime in 2009.

The "stimulus" also hijacks Cobra, a program that lets the unemployed retain access to their former company health benefits -- usually for about 18 months. The new stimulus permits any former employee over the age of 55 to keep using Cobra right up until they qualify for Medicare at age 65. And here's the kicker: Whereas employees were previously responsible for paying their health premiums while on Cobra, now the feds will pay 65%. CBO estimates? Seven million Americans will have the feds mostly pay their insurance bills in 2009.

Any "means testing"? I know if I could co-op this, over a $800 month COBRA, I would.

 

[jreeves]

Going in more detail through the article, I have to point out that currently Medicare already has restrictions on what can be done. The article does not point out in detail what more would be affected.

AlsoBetsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed are her own

The Hudson Institute is a conservative think tank for whatever that is worth.

No, they won't kill our grandparents. They are too strong a voting bloc.

Absolutely not the article cites the actual bill. Did you bother to read it or are you pulling a liberal trick of trying to discredit the article at all costs?

 

[jreeves]

Going in more detail through the article, I have to point out that currently Medicare already has restrictions on what can be done. The article does not point out in detail what more would be affected.

AlsoBetsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed are her own

The Hudson Institute is a conservative think tank for whatever that is worth.

No, they won't kill our grandparents. They are too strong a voting bloc.

GOP's Chilly Reaction To The Stimulus Bill - Political Hotsheet
Of note, NRSC Chairman John Ensign (R-Nevada) just challenged Democratic leaders to televise the conference meetings in which negotiations between the House and Senate versions of the package will be negotiated.

I wonder if the Congressional Democrats will really make this process "transparent" or will they continue to operate behind closed doors where they will continue to stuff this stimulus bill with their liberal agendas?

 

[Modbert]

GOP's Chilly Reaction To The Stimulus Bill - Political Hotsheet
Of note, NRSC Chairman John Ensign (R-Nevada) just challenged Democratic leaders to televise the conference meetings in which negotiations between the House and Senate versions of the package will be negotiated.

I wonder if the Congressional Democrats will really make this process "transparent" or will they continue to operate behind closed doors where they will continue to stuff this stimulus bill with their liberal agendas?

Are you fucking kidding me?

THIS is why I hate both and all political parties. They're all the same fucking hypocrites just proposing different agendas in which we all decide which one we can "deal with" better. WHERE THE FUCK WAS THIS SORT OF IDEA THE LAST EIGHT YEARS? Maybe I'm going crazy here but this is why to me that Republicans are hypocrites along with the Democrats.

 

[jreeves]

Managed care companies have a very strong voice in what your doctor can or cannot do. This is often based on the cost of the procedure involved. Is this the best method of guaranteeing the best care?

I worked for one for 7 years.

Doctors control a great deal in decisions on treatments currently. Although the new NCHIT will control treatments if the Stimulus Bill passes. I think if most people knew this fact there would be an uproar over this secret provision.

 

[Annie]

Color me naive, but when all is said and done, the 'revolt' against doctors will be mooted.

 

[Modbert]

Color me naive, but when all is said and done, the 'revolt' against doctors will be mooted.

Color me naive, but I've come to the realization that Democrats won't budge on their plan for the economy while Republicans won't bunch on the tax cuts. People on this board seem to fall in line with their party ideals on this one, some believe in trickle down economics while others don't.

Except under Clinton, America has been under trickle down economics since Reagan and obviously it has not worked. So why would you continue a policy that doesn't work?

And don't get me wrong, the Democrats plan isn't perfect either. I'm sure there's a couple pieces in this bill that are pork whether Obama knows it or not.

This country is going to be fucked no matter how much Obama does for at least the next two years. We haven't even felt the full effects of the Bush Administration policies that took place over the last eight years folks.

At this point though, Obama could personally cure cancer himself and the Republican Party for a good portion would still say he's the anti-christ. So at this point, I could really care less about who says what about Obama; rather what gets done.

 

[jreeves]

GOP's Chilly Reaction To The Stimulus Bill - Political Hotsheet
Of note, NRSC Chairman John Ensign (R-Nevada) just challenged Democratic leaders to televise the conference meetings in which negotiations between the House and Senate versions of the package will be negotiated.

I wonder if the Congressional Democrats will really make this process "transparent" or will they continue to operate behind closed doors where they will continue to stuff this stimulus bill with their liberal agendas?

Are you fucking kidding me?

THIS is why I hate both and all political parties. They're all the same fucking hypocrites just proposing different agendas in which we all decide which one we can "deal with" better. WHERE THE FUCK WAS THIS SORT OF IDEA THE LAST EIGHT YEARS? Maybe I'm going crazy here but this is why to me that Republicans are hypocrites along with the Democrats.

Bush didn't exactly vow to have unprecedented transparency did he?
Obama promises plan to cut mortgage costs - White House- msnbc.com
The president said he would insist on "unprecedented transparency, rigorous oversight, and clear accountability" for funds that went toward stabilizing the financial system.


On top of that Bush didn't exactly asked the American people to spend well over a trillion dollars in one swoop, now did he? I know you are going to cite TARP, but this is on top of additional spending for TARP. The American people should insist on a proper debate before they are asked to morguage their futures.

 

[jreeves]

Color me naive, but when all is said and done, the 'revolt' against doctors will be mooted.

Color me naive, but I've come to the realization that Democrats won't budge on their plan for the economy while Republicans won't bunch on the tax cuts. People on this board seem to fall in line with their party ideals on this one, some believe in trickle down economics while others don't.

Except under Clinton, America has been under trickle down economics since Reagan and obviously it has not worked. So why would you continue a policy that doesn't work?

And don't get me wrong, the Democrats plan isn't perfect either. I'm sure there's a couple pieces in this bill that are pork whether Obama knows it or not.

This country is going to be fucked no matter how much Obama does for at least the next two years. We haven't even felt the full effects of the Bush Administration policies that took place over the last eight years folks.

At this point though, Obama could personally cure cancer himself and the Republican Party for a good portion would still say he's the anti-christ. So at this point, I could really care less about who says what about Obama; rather what gets done.

Talking of revisionist history, who was in control of Congress when Clinton was President? Do you remember the budget battles when Clinton was President?

 

[Modbert]

Talking of revisionist history, who was in control of Congress when Clinton was President? Do you remember the budget battles when Clinton was President?

Republicans were in control of Congress from Clinton's time in office until almost the end of Bush's. So obviously Jreeves, Republicans have to take the good with the bad. They may of done some good in the 90's purpose but they fucked it up all later on then.