National standards in K-12 education

[chanel]

The Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers is a group of states committed to building a next-generation assessment system.

PARCC states collectively educate about 25 million public K-12 students in the United States.

What brought all of these states together is a shared commitment to develop an assessment system aligned to the Common Core State Standards that is anchored in college and career readiness; provides comparability across states; has the ability to assess and measure higher-order skills such as critical thinking, communications, and problem solving; and provides truly useful information for educators, parents, and students alike.

PARCC States | PARCC

Today I attended a workshop on the common core curriculum standards which were adopted by NJ last year (unbeknownst to the teachers) and will be implemented next Sept. The NJ state assessment "High School Proficiency Test" will be replaced by the "PARCC".

No one could answer my question about HOW MUCH THIS WILL COST THE TAXPAYERS OF NJ. No one could explain why the taxpapers of NJ were now being ask to PAY FOR A NATIONAL TEST. No one wanted to discuss whether or not we are now moving toward a FEDERAL EDUCATION system, as opposed to a state one.

I realize these are big questions, with big implications for the future, and a big price tag. No one likes to answer big questions, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm called into the principal's office because I had the AUDACITY to ask. So I will ask the smart people here on USMB what you think.

Are we heading toward a nationalized educational system, and if so, is that reasonable and/or doable?

Disgusted right now.

 

[Jackson]

Being in education for 32 years, I say "YES!" to a National Standardized test. I am familiar with some states and the tests they use to determine proficiency in all core areas. The state's tests often offer watered down versions of a National Standardized Test to show better results.

The standards, I feel, shouild be the same in all school systems and in all states. Only then could you properly evaluate the students progress, but the proficiency of the school system.

I don't think the federal government should be involved in any other area except National Testing.

I also feel that classroom teachers should not be proctoring the classes while taking the tests. Tests should not be seen by the teacher before the testing and all materials should be taken with the Testing Practioners.

Expensive? Yes. But properly evaluating students and schools are our only hope of uniform guidelines. Then, get the unions out of education, do not pass students without mastering core subject matter in each grade, and take ineffective teachers out of the systems. There are too many good teachers waiting to fill the voids.

Just my opinion.

 

[editec]

I believe that national achievement testing would be very beneficial.

However making outcomes from that part of some funding scheme is a very bad idea.

 

[chanel]

I agree with both of you that a national test would be beneficial for a number of reasons. Under NCLB, the feds were comparing apples to oranges. I always said I'd like to see how Alabama or Mississippi kids would do on the NJ test. But only half the states have signed on, which will skew the statistics again.

This is my issue. We are in a recession. People are losing their jobs, homes, etc. School budgets are being slashed and programs are being cut. Is this the right time?

I just want to know what the price tag is. We have a lot of backlash about the cost of public education in this country, and I think it's only fair that the public be informed of how much these new changes will cost. It may mean new textbooks, new testing materials, new curriculum, new training, etc. And shouldn't the parents be given a "heads up" on what the new test will entail?

I also think we are headed toward a federal educational system as opposed to a state one. I can see that issue being highly political and ugly.

BTW- A little "fun fact" that I picked up on. In all the standards for every grade level and subject they used the term ENGLISH literacy. That should save a few bucks I guess.

 

[Trajan]

The Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers is a group of states committed to building a next-generation assessment system.

PARCC states collectively educate about 25 million public K-12 students in the United States.

What brought all of these states together is a shared commitment to develop an assessment system aligned to the Common Core State Standards that is anchored in college and career readiness; provides comparability across states; has the ability to assess and measure higher-order skills such as critical thinking, communications, and problem solving; and provides truly useful information for educators, parents, and students alike.

PARCC States | PARCC

Today I attended a workshop on the common core curriculum standards which were adopted by NJ last year (unbeknownst to the teachers) and will be implemented next Sept. The NJ state assessment "High School Proficiency Test" will be replaced by the "PARCC".

No one could answer my question about HOW MUCH THIS WILL COST THE TAXPAYERS OF NJ. No one could explain why the taxpapers of NJ were now being ask to PAY FOR A NATIONAL TEST. No one wanted to discuss whether or not we are now moving toward a FEDERAL EDUCATION system, as opposed to a state one.

I realize these are big questions, with big implications for the future, and a big price tag. No one likes to answer big questions, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm called into the principal's office because I had the AUDACITY to ask. So I will ask the smart people here on USMB what you think.

Are we heading toward a nationalized educational system, and if so, is that reasonable and/or doable?

Disgusted right now.

well, we both know that the dept. of education has a huge amount of leverage etc etc....


and no, states rights ala education usually trump the dept of ed. BUT then, as I said above, they have money leverage, you play along, more fed dollars will finds its way to the state system. This has gone on since the 60's after Brown really got going and when it was made a cabinet level position in 1980.

Its not all nefarious either, the reactions of some admins that demand a ( and in some cases poorly constructed) national standard are I think to some extent, thats SOME extent knee jerk answers to the fact that many districts are failing their students and they feel the need to correct that. when in fact the answer is right before their eyes. Vouchers and Charters.

here I will give a shout out to Obama, not that he has done a great deal for charters/voucher prgms., ( and in DC stood aside while their vouchers were defunded) who btw just celebrated a milestone, they have gone over the 2 Million student mark, but has played a crafty game, paying homage to the NEA etc. and yet not getting fowled up in and adding any drags on the voucher charter prgm's. Thats saying a lot for a Democrat, he apparently has threaded the needle. Either way, kudos.

 

[chanel]

Interesting that you say that Trajan. 10 of the 12 "PARCC governing states" (those that came up with the standards), were "Race to the Top" recipients. Yet, when I asked if the feds were paying for it, the presenter said "No".

I do agree that "some districts are failing their students" but there is probably no better example than NJ where we have some of the best schools in the country and some of the worst. All with the same curriculum; same teacher qualifications; and money out the wazoo. I fail to see that "changing the standards" will improve those schools. We all know what the problems are, and they are not "lack of standards".

I suspect Texas will never sign on. And in five years, when the data shows that nothing has changed, something new will come down the pike. And they wonder why teachers are so cynical.

 

[random3434]

Interesting that you say that Trajan. 10 of the 12 "PARCC governing states" (those that came up with the standards), were "Race to the Top" recipients. Yet, when I asked if the feds were paying for it, the presenter said "No".

I do agree that "some districts are failing their students" but there is probably no better example than NJ where we have some of the best schools in the country and some of the worst. All with the same curriculum; same teacher qualifications; and money out the wazoo. I fail to see that "changing the standards" will improve those schools. We all know what the problems are, and they are not "lack of standards".

I suspect Texas will never sign on. And in five years, when the data shows that nothing has changed, something new will come down the pike. And they wonder why teachers are so cynical.

Yep...teachers can't perform miracles when the PARENTS don't give a $hit about their child's education, or put all the blame on the teachers for their child's behaviors and academic laziness.

So the state, now the feds, keep trying to change things up with new "Testing" strategies, when what they really need to be doing is teaching/helping parents be more involved in their child's education.

 

[Trajan]

Interesting that you say that Trajan. 10 of the 12 "PARCC governing states" (those that came up with the standards), were "Race to the Top" recipients. Yet, when I asked if the feds were paying for it, the presenter said "No".

I do agree that "some districts are failing their students" but there is probably no better example than NJ where we have some of the best schools in the country and some of the worst. All with the same curriculum; same teacher qualifications; and money out the wazoo. I fail to see that "changing the standards" will improve those schools. We all know what the problems are, and they are not "lack of standards".

I suspect Texas will never sign on. And in five years, when the data shows that nothing has changed, something new will come down the pike. And they wonder why teachers are so cynical.

yup and thats why I would really prefer and was on board and lauded Obamas race to the top, then, the NEA went to work on him and they started flattening out their prerogatives on who gets money or not. Now its half baked, it should be called race half way to the top.

I usually am not in favor of top down solutions. the states should be block granted and, be FREE to administer it of ANY pressure etc. BUT thats not the way it works sadly.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Everything the Fed does is over budget and under performed.

so if this is leading to something run by the Fed, our kids are screwed.

under the DOE or international rankings went from top Five to Eighteen last year.

Let states compete, let counties in those states compete and let school districts compete for top honors.

And end mandatory attendance after age 14. The students that care will have a better chance to suceede.

 

[Jackson]

Interesting that you say that Trajan. 10 of the 12 "PARCC governing states" (those that came up with the standards), were "Race to the Top" recipients. Yet, when I asked if the feds were paying for it, the presenter said "No".

I do agree that "some districts are failing their students" but there is probably no better example than NJ where we have some of the best schools in the country and some of the worst. All with the same curriculum; same teacher qualifications; and money out the wazoo. I fail to see that "changing the standards" will improve those schools. We all know what the problems are, and they are not "lack of standards".

I suspect Texas will never sign on. And in five years, when the data shows that nothing has changed, something new will come down the pike. And they wonder why teachers are so cynical.

Yep...teachers can't perform miracles when the PARENTS don't give a $hit about their child's education, or put all the blame on the teachers for their child's behaviors and academic laziness.

So the state, now the feds, keep trying to change things up with new "Testing" strategies, when what they really need to be doing is teaching/helping parents be more involved in their child's education.

When parents and teahers work together, they can do great work in helping the children follow the right path. It's the encouragement and pride instilled that works the miracles!

YOu know, the startegies of new testing isn't the problems. We could use the standardized test of years ago and be better off. The continued lowering of standards that are the problem. If educators would keep the standards of performance higher for promotion to the next grade, we wouldn't see that 8th graders cannot read above the fourth grade.

In no schools should the parents have any right in determining the whether their child is promoted. This is where unbiased grading on the proper scales must be performed by the teacher and verified by the standardized tests.

The early grades , K-3 should be focusing on reading, writing and math skills only. Once students have the stable proficient background subjects can we expect them to understand the content areas of social studies, science, foreign languages, and other critical subjects.

Teachers and parents expectations of high performance are the answer.

 

[chanel]

Social promotion is a biggie Jackson.

I teach special education. My students are way below grade level, yet they are expected to follow the same curriculum and achieve the same standards as their peers. This defies logic, but is never addressed.

One thing that struck me about the whole presentation was the focus on "literacy" in every subject area. Employers and colleges have complained that high school graduates cannot write well. I agree. So they want every class to include "extended periods" of writing in class. I asked "how much time?" and was given no answer. We have been encouraged to "change up activities" every 10-15 minutes to keep students interested and engaged. Kids today need "stimulation" because their attention spans are shot. Are we now to make them write papers in every class? (Because we know they won't do it at home)

I am a good employee. If my principal wants me to stand on my head to teach, I will find a way to do it. But damn - can't I at least ask "How will this help my kids?"

 

[Jackson]

Social promotion is a biggie Jackson.

I teach special education. My students are way below grade level, yet they are expected to follow the same curriculum and achieve the same standards as their peers. This defies logic, but is never addressed.

One thing that struck me about the whole presentation was the focus on "literacy" in every subject area. Employers and colleges have complained that high school graduates cannot write well. I agree. So they want every class to include "extended periods" of writing in class. I asked "how much time?" and was given no answer. We have been encouraged to "change up activities" every 10-15 minutes to keep students interested and engaged. Kids today need "stimulation" because their attention spans are shot. Are we now to make them write papers in every class? (Because we know they won't do it at home)

I am a good employee. If my principal wants me to stand on my head to teach, I will find a way to do it. But damn - can't I at least ask "How will this help my kids?"

You are a warrior teaching in special ed! That has the largest turn over in employment of education. Each student should have an IEP and the instruction individualized. Some students should be able to worker longer on tasks than others, so allow them to do so.

It is a good idea to incorporate 'writing skills' with other subjects. Even with handwriting lessons, the children were told to copy a sentence pr two from the board (I taught high risk 1st for ten years) and then a question was asked about that content and they were told to answer the questions on their own with the talents they had. The only grade for handwriting was the sentence or two they copied from the board and not on the creative part.

Short attention spans are interesting. On a mundane task, ity seems to be very short, but when they go to the video games, their attention spans lengthen.

I used to write my own reading and writing curricula. Since I did that, I could write stories with the students as characters and have them perform on comprehension tasks. With students like yours, the need amazing motivation and stimulus. I would engage the students with who in the class was in our story and always be amused with the solutions the
the came up within the stories.

One thing that is wrong with special ed, you need an aide to help with the indiviualized attention.

As the first grade teacher, I received the students who would ordinarily repeat K, but instead come to my first grade class. One half of they day they worked on language arts with me and then with a regular classroom teacher for the rest of the day.

Even though these students were high risk, one third would raise to the level of third grade reading by the end of the first grade in reading and decoding skills. One third would be on grade level and one third would remain in first grade the following year with a regular classroom teacher. It seemed to work out that way each year.

By the end of the second grade, those who were not selected for special ed were all above grade level. It's a matter of adjusting the curriculum and development stages of each child. But you know that very well. Some of my students who were tested came out "overachiever slow learners!" How silly. They were not slow learners,just needed the repititions, enthusiasm and encouragement..

 

[chanel]

We need more primary school teachers like you! I teach 12th grade. "Catching up" is far less important than "getting them out". Lol

 

[alan1]

The Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers is a group of states committed to building a next-generation assessment system.

PARCC states collectively educate about 25 million public K-12 students in the United States.

What brought all of these states together is a shared commitment to develop an assessment system aligned to the Common Core State Standards that is anchored in college and career readiness; provides comparability across states; has the ability to assess and measure higher-order skills such as critical thinking, communications, and problem solving; and provides truly useful information for educators, parents, and students alike.

PARCC States | PARCC

Today I attended a workshop on the common core curriculum standards which were adopted by NJ last year (unbeknownst to the teachers) and will be implemented next Sept. The NJ state assessment "High School Proficiency Test" will be replaced by the "PARCC".

No one could answer my question about HOW MUCH THIS WILL COST THE TAXPAYERS OF NJ. No one could explain why the taxpapers of NJ were now being ask to PAY FOR A NATIONAL TEST. No one wanted to discuss whether or not we are now moving toward a FEDERAL EDUCATION system, as opposed to a state one.

I realize these are big questions, with big implications for the future, and a big price tag. No one likes to answer big questions, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm called into the principal's office because I had the AUDACITY to ask. So I will ask the smart people here on USMB what you think.

Are we heading toward a nationalized educational system, and if so, is that reasonable and/or doable?

Disgusted right now.

I have no expertise in education whatsoever, just my observations from life.

I'm opposed to a federal education and testing system. My personal opinion is that the more local education is, the better it can be. Let teachers focus on the needs of the kids in their area. And those needs vary significantly.
The education needs of an inner city kid from New York City are entirely different than the needs of a farm kid from Bakersfield CA. No national standard can define the two equitably.

 

[alan1]

Interesting that you say that Trajan. 10 of the 12 "PARCC governing states" (those that came up with the standards), were "Race to the Top" recipients. Yet, when I asked if the feds were paying for it, the presenter said "No".

I do agree that "some districts are failing their students" but there is probably no better example than NJ where we have some of the best schools in the country and some of the worst. All with the same curriculum; same teacher qualifications; and money out the wazoo. I fail to see that "changing the standards" will improve those schools. We all know what the problems are, and they are not "lack of standards".

I suspect Texas will never sign on. And in five years, when the data shows that nothing has changed, something new will come down the pike. And they wonder why teachers are so cynical.

Yep...teachers can't perform miracles when the PARENTS don't give a $hit about their child's education, or put all the blame on the teachers for their child's behaviors and academic laziness.

So the state, now the feds, keep trying to change things up with new "Testing" strategies, when what they really need to be doing is teaching/helping parents be more involved in their child's education.

Exactly.
I think too many school systems (not the teachers themselves) expect the same results regardless of parental involvement and then they expect the teachers to just go ahead and pass kids that have mastered enough to move on to the next grade. I'm sorry, but if the kid hasn't learned enough, you fail him. And when the parents snivel about it you tell the parents to get their own butts engaged or little Johnny will spend 3 years in 4th grade.

 

[Jackson]

Interesting that you say that Trajan. 10 of the 12 "PARCC governing states" (those that came up with the standards), were "Race to the Top" recipients. Yet, when I asked if the feds were paying for it, the presenter said "No".

I do agree that "some districts are failing their students" but there is probably no better example than NJ where we have some of the best schools in the country and some of the worst. All with the same curriculum; same teacher qualifications; and money out the wazoo. I fail to see that "changing the standards" will improve those schools. We all know what the problems are, and they are not "lack of standards".

I suspect Texas will never sign on. And in five years, when the data shows that nothing has changed, something new will come down the pike. And they wonder why teachers are so cynical.

Yep...teachers can't perform miracles when the PARENTS don't give a $hit about their child's education, or put all the blame on the teachers for their child's behaviors and academic laziness.

So the state, now the feds, keep trying to change things up with new "Testing" strategies, when what they really need to be doing is teaching/helping parents be more involved in their child's education.

Exactly.
I think too many school systems (not the teachers themselves) expect the same results regardless of parental involvement and then they expect the teachers to just go ahead and pass kids that have mastered enough to move on to the next grade. I'm sorry, but if the kid hasn't learned enough, you fail him. And when the parents snivel about it you tell the parents to get their own butts engaged or little Johnny will spend 3 years in 4th grade.

I think we are saying basically the same thing. No parent can tell the school to pass a student when they haven't mastered the foundations of the core subjects in the grade level. Teachers don't have the time to back up instruction if the class is working on multiplications and Johnny has mastered addition or subtraction yet.

But, there is a heirarchy of skills that have to be taught and the schools, regardless where they are located work with the same curricula.

We can't give a child a pass on one grade when he hasn't mastered the content whether he is from the inner city or suburban schools. We are doing any favors for the child, but setting him up for failure in the next grade.

Chanel is working with a problem that is unique and I am unfamiliar with Grade 12 special ed. except with certain types of disabilities and strategies to cope with those disabilities.

By the same token we cannot give children "passes" because the parents don't care. Like you said, the parents have to get used to stepping up to the plate when the children are in jeopardy of failing. We give them several notices during the year.

 

[alan1]

Yep...teachers can't perform miracles when the PARENTS don't give a $hit about their child's education, or put all the blame on the teachers for their child's behaviors and academic laziness.

So the state, now the feds, keep trying to change things up with new "Testing" strategies, when what they really need to be doing is teaching/helping parents be more involved in their child's education.

Exactly.
I think too many school systems (not the teachers themselves) expect the same results regardless of parental involvement and then they expect the teachers to just go ahead and pass kids that have mastered enough to move on to the next grade. I'm sorry, but if the kid hasn't learned enough, you fail him. And when the parents snivel about it you tell the parents to get their own butts engaged or little Johnny will spend 3 years in 4th grade.

I think we are saying basically the same thing. No parent can tell the school to pass a student when they haven't mastered the foundations of the core subjects in the grade level. Teachers don't have the time to back up instruction if the class is working on multiplications and Johnny has mastered addition or subtraction yet.

But, there is a heirarchy of skills that have to be taught and the schools, regardless where they are located work with the same curricula.

We can't give a child a pass on one grade when he hasn't mastered the content whether he is from the inner city or suburban schools. We are doing any favors for the child, but setting him up for failure in the next grade.

Chanel is working with a problem that is unique and I am unfamiliar with Grade 12 special ed. except with certain types of disabilities and strategies to cope with those disabilities.

By the same token we cannot give children "passes" because the parents don't care. Like you said, the parents have to get used to stepping up to the plate when the children are in jeopardy of failing. We give them several notices during the year.

You, Chanel and EZ (as educators) have a point of view that is from the inside, whilst mine is from the outside looking in.
Obviously, I cannot know all the obstacles and hurdles you have in front of you.
Just my point of view, but it seems to me that the more the federal government gets involved in education, the worse the end result (educated children) seems to be.

 

[Jackson]

Exactly.
I think too many school systems (not the teachers themselves) expect the same results regardless of parental involvement and then they expect the teachers to just go ahead and pass kids that have mastered enough to move on to the next grade. I'm sorry, but if the kid hasn't learned enough, you fail him. And when the parents snivel about it you tell the parents to get their own butts engaged or little Johnny will spend 3 years in 4th grade.

I think we are saying basically the same thing. No parent can tell the school to pass a student when they haven't mastered the foundations of the core subjects in the grade level. Teachers don't have the time to back up instruction if the class is working on multiplications and Johnny has mastered addition or subtraction yet.

But, there is a heirarchy of skills that have to be taught and the schools, regardless where they are located work with the same curricula.

We can't give a child a pass on one grade when he hasn't mastered the content whether he is from the inner city or suburban schools. We are doing any favors for the child, but setting him up for failure in the next grade.

Chanel is working with a problem that is unique and I am unfamiliar with Grade 12 special ed. except with certain types of disabilities and strategies to cope with those disabilities.

By the same token we cannot give children "passes" because the parents don't care. Like you said, the parents have to get used to stepping up to the plate when the children are in jeopardy of failing. We give them several notices during the year.

You, Chanel and EZ (as educators) have a point of view that is from the inside, whilst mine is from the outside looking in.
Obviously, I cannot know all the obstacles and hurdles you have in front of you.
Just my point of view, but it seems to me that the more the federal government gets involved in education, the worse the end result (educated children) seems to be.

That's why I say the only job of the Education dept is to hand out block money to states and test the kids, analyze and publish test results. Then we can properly evaluate the job we are doing and verify students' progress. The federal government shouldn't be involved in any other matter. They are generally incompetent at anything else..

 

[alan1]

That's why I say the only job of the Education dept is to hand out block money to states and test the kids, analyze and publish test results. Then we can properly evaluate the job we are doing and verify students' progress. The federal government shouldn't be involved in any other matter. They are generally incompetent at anything else..

I would take it a step further and not give the Dept of Education any money to hand out. Eliminate that portion of the federal budget and let the states decide how to fund education. One less bureaucrat in the way of the monies.

 

[chanel]

You are not alone in that position Mountain Man, and that's why I brought up the topic. This is where we are headed, and only us "insiders" are being told. I think it's a HUGE issue that will be ignored until it's too late. Google "PARCC" and you will see there is very little information.