National Sales Tax????

[Mr. P]

Nope.

While this does address those low income wage earners at or below the poverty level, the basic premise of regressive taxation and the fact that the rich can easily escape taxation remains unchallenged.

Also the adverse impact of this type of tax on the economy is not satisfactorily addressed.

But the "rich" don't escape...If you buy you pay. I think the effect on the economy is very well addressed. It's all on the site.
http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/index.html

 

[Merlin1047]

But the "rich" don't escape...If you buy you pay. I think the effect on the economy is very well addressed. It's all on the site.
http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/index.html

P, I've been to the site and I've seen nothing there which convinces me that this is anything but a rehash of the same discredited arguments which have been floated many times before.

Here's my basic premise and I have seen nothing on the site to refute this. First, the tax is regressive - that cannot be explained away. It taxes the rich at a lower rate than it taxes the poor and middle class because the focus is on spending not on income.

Second, the tax is EASILY avoided by those with the means to do so simply by shifting their residence and their spending out of the country. Because the sales tax penalizes spending, if I were making ten million a year I could simply move my family to Europe, Australia, Mexico, Canada or South America and evade taxes on 99% of my income.

Third, this rate of taxation will most definitely discourage consumer spending. I don't think I need to detail the obvious effects of that.

 

[Mr. P]

P, I've been to the site and I've seen nothing there which convinces me that this is anything but a rehash of the same discredited arguments which have been floated many times before.

Here's my basic premise and I have seen nothing on the site to refute this. First, the tax is regressive - that cannot be explained away. It taxes the rich at a lower rate than it taxes the poor and middle class because the focus is on spending not on income.

Second, the tax is EASILY avoided by those with the means to do so simply by shifting their residence and their spending out of the country. Because the sales tax penalizes spending, if I were making ten million a year I could simply move my family to Europe, Australia, Mexico, Canada or South America and evade taxes on 99% of my income.

Third, this rate of taxation will most definitely discourage consumer spending. I don't think I need to detail the obvious effects of that.

Well, for the time being we will just disagree.
Here's a positive to all you see negative.
The fair tax will ignite the general populations' desire to make more
money once the penalty (income tax) for doing so is removed. That alone will be a giant boost to the economy.

 

[Fmr jarhead]

There is always going to be a certain segment of society that MUST have NEW products....for warranty purposes, or just to keep up with the Jones'....

What I like about the proposed system, is the fact that an itme can be taxed ONCE, and not multiple times....a car, for instance...

You pay tax on the earnings you make from your employer, then you pay tax on the item you buy...trade it in to buy a used car from the dealer, and pay tax on the same item AGAIN from the dealership.....

 

[Fmr jarhead]

Tthe CATO institute agrees that there needs to be a change in the tax code, and has offered some suggestions: Here is a link to the Executive Summary, and at the bottom of the page is the policy analysis they have done evaluating the NST, Flat Tax, and reform....

All options would have NO effect on Social Security, but I think the daunting task of revising 60,000+ pages of tax code will keep lawmakers on the hill from taking on more than one of these two tasks at a time....

We really need reform, now, in order to get some sanity back in to the American worker's lives....when is tax Freedom Day? Estimated to be 14 April 2005 this year...the day that your income is finally no longer paid to the government: http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday.html

Wwhy do so many people seem to not care about taxation? We need to repeal the 16th amendment!

 

[pegwinn]

Personally I don't care if the tax is pro or re (gressive). I don't care if other poor people are slammed or if the rich are getting over. What I care about is that I am working poor at worst and middle class at best and I will spend about 12-15 hours to prove to the government that I paid my personal fair share. I can't afford a tax attorney or accountant so I get to do it myself. As I said, simplification is the goal here. I'd be so happy if April was just a rainy season......

 

[007]

I still like the idea of a flat tax, with the first $20K being exempt. I'm of the "opinion", that just about ANYTHING would be better than what we got. When you consider the subsidizing of big business in America, I don't think the super rich even PAY any taxes. They do instead GET money from the government. Hire a number wiz and vwallah... show a lose and pay no taxes.

Flat tax. That's why I voted for Frobes...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russia's Flat-Tax Miracle
March 24, 2003 | |

It’s never fun to admit failure. But Russia’s 13 percent flat tax forces me to confess a certain degree of incompetence. For 10 years, I’ve been working in Washington to replace our convoluted tax code with a simple and fair flat tax. But as every taxpayer can attest, my efforts have not borne fruit.

Yet in Russia, President Vladimir Putin -- the former head of the Soviet KGB -- implemented a flat tax in 2001. Not only a flat tax, but a flat tax with a 13 percent rate, four percentage points lower than the supposedly “radical” plan espoused by Steve Forbes and former House Majority Leader Dick Armey. And it’s been a big success.

Imagine how this makes me feel. I’ve tried to help reform the tax system in the United States, a nation the rest of the world considers the home of unfettered capitalism and free-market principles. Yet every year, our tax code gets bigger and more complicated. In Russia, by contrast, the flat tax has been in place for more than two years now. And this reform took place in a nation still trying to overcome the legacy of more than 70 years of communist dictatorship.

Remember the saying: “To the victors go the spoils”? It must not be true. We won the Cold War, but Russia gets a flat tax while America is stuck with a Byzantine tax system based on class-warfare ideology.

But perhaps our luck will change. The Russian flat tax has been so successful that even American politicians might learn the right lessons. Let’s look at the evidence: Russia’s economy has expanded by about 10 percent since it adopted a flat tax. That may not be spectacular, but it’s better than the United States, and it’s very impressive compared to the anemic growth rates we see elsewhere in Europe.

It also appears, conventional wisdom aside, that a low tax rate doesn’t mean less money for government. Over the last two years, inflation-adjusted income tax revenue in Russia has grown 50 percent. Why? Because people are willing to produce more and pay their taxes when the system if fair and tax rates are low -- exactly what Ronald Reagan predicted when he triggered America’s economic boom with lower tax rates 20 years ago. Ironically, the former communists in Moscow now understand supply-side economics, yet liberals in Congress are still relying on the politics of hate-and-envy.

Interestingly, the flat tax is just one of several positive reforms enacted by President Putin. Russia also has reduced the corporate rate of tax from 35 percent to 24 percent. (U.S.-based companies still pay 35 percent, the second-highest corporate tax among industrialized nations). Small businesses also get better treatment. The old system with high tax rates has been replaced by a new system where companies can choose either a 6 percent tax on gross revenue or a 15 percent tax on profits.

Of course, President Putin can do more. Russia still needs to privatize inefficient state-run industries. It also would be nice if he supported President Bush in the Middle East; after all, Bush has supported Putin’s flat tax. During a state visit in 2001, President Bush said, “I am impressed by the fact that [Putin] has instituted tax reform -- a flat tax. And as he pointed out to me, it is one of the lowest tax rates in Europe. He and I share something in common: We both proudly stand here as tax reformers.”

The success of Russia’s flat tax shouldn’t surprise anyone. Hong Kong has had a flat tax for a long time, and it’s been the world’s fastest-growing economy over some 50 years. Indeed, there are growing signs that China may implement a flat tax in the near future. Talk about a man-bites-dog story! One of the few remaining communist nations may get a flat tax before America. At this rate, the United States may wind up in the same category as France, Cuba and North Korea.

To be fair, President Bush is moving America in the right direction. He already has pushed one tax cut through Congress (though most of it has yet to take effect). Now he is urging lawmakers to end the double taxation of dividends and expand IRAs. All of these policies shift us -- slowly but surely -- in the direction of a flat tax.

It would be nice, however, if we got to a flat tax during my lifetime. And even if we implemented the flat tax because we didn’t want to fall behind the rest of the world, at least I’ll be able to tell myself that my efforts weren’t wasted.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed032403.cfm

 

[007]

A national sales tax
George Will


more
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/georgewill/printgw20050331.shtml

I really don't like this idea. It's starts out high, and has all the ear marks of something that could get out of control fast.

 

[cptpwichita]

1.You already pay a 22% tax on most things you buy,these are imbedded taxes that are passed from companies to consumers.With the fair tax the imbedded taxes of approx. 22% are removed and a 23% sales tax is added.Most items will cost no more with the tax than they do now!The free market and competition will keep prices low.

2.you keep 100% of your paycheck

3.you get a rebate check every month (my family of 5 would get about 560.00)

4.april 15 is just another day!

5.used items are not taxed

6.exports are not taxed (the u.s. can finally compete in the world market).imagine exports sell at 22% less overseas than they do today!remember imbedded taxes no longer exist.

7.the u.s. becomes the worlds greatest tax haven.the u.s. will be where people from across the world invest their money.no longer will people hide their money in off-shore accounts but will invest it here at home which will drive down interest rates.

8.the irs will be gone and a new agency only 1/10 the size will be needed for compliance.

9.everyone pays including illegals,tourists,and people who avoid filing tax returns like organized crime figures.

10.people will easily be able to see exactly how much the government spends (wastes) and will demand a lower and lower tax rate.23% is needed now but people might just demand government lower that amount by being fiscally responsible.

So tell me how getting all of ones pay-check and a monthly rebate check with prices not much higher for new goods and services than they are today coupled with the fact that the economy will boom and new jobs will be created by the vast influx of new capital in a tax haven paradise can be a bad thing?

 

[Mr. P]

1.You already pay a 22% tax on most things you buy,these are imbedded taxes that are passed from companies to consumers.With the fair tax the imbedded taxes of approx. 22% are removed and a 23% sales tax is added.Most items will cost no more with the tax than they do now!The free market and competition will keep prices low.

2.you keep 100% of your paycheck

3.you get a rebate check every month (my family of 5 would get about 560.00)

4.april 15 is just another day!

5.used items are not taxed

6.exports are not taxed (the u.s. can finally compete in the world market).imagine exports sell at 22% less overseas than they do today!remember imbedded taxes no longer exist.

7.the u.s. becomes the worlds greatest tax haven.the u.s. will be where people from across the world invest their money.no longer will people hide their money in off-shore accounts but will invest it here at home which will drive down interest rates.

8.the irs will be gone and a new agency only 1/10 the size will be needed for compliance.

9.everyone pays including illegals,tourists,and people who avoid filing tax returns like organized crime figures.

10.people will easily be able to see exactly how much the government spends (wastes) and will demand a lower and lower tax rate.23% is needed now but people might just demand government lower that amount by being fiscally responsible.

So tell me how getting all of ones pay-check and a monthly rebate check with prices not much higher for new goods and services than they are today coupled with the fact that the economy will boom and new jobs will be created by the vast influx of new capital in a tax haven paradise can be a bad thing?

I posted http://fairtax.org/ four or more times here....only a few have any interest...It's a shame..

 

[cptpwichita]

Anybody who doesn't want the fair tax is either corrupt or an idiot.