National Healthcare Basics

[BuckToothMoron]

DGS49, you left out one major problem with UHC here in the United Ststes... It's illegal and unconstitutional at the Federal level, and likely so in most states.

What law makes UHC illegal any more so then medicare or medicaid?

What part of the Constitution is violated?

Where in the constitution is the federal government giving purview of healthcare? Article 1 section 8 defines the powers of congress. There is nothing in there giving them the power to provide healthcare or health insurance to some individual citizens.

The "General welfare" phrase clearly does not when you consider what the author, James Madison, had to say about it.

If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions.” JM

 

[Freewill]

Link?

You've never heard of insurance?

How is insurance going to solve the large increase in health care costs? It isn't working today why would more be better? Consider that they now have a captive set of customers. customers who if they don't buy the health insurance's product will be penalized, almost no incentive to reduce cost.

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"

What I see is statistics that tell me that Health Insurance takes about 5 percent. While that is significant it isn't the reason for why Health CARE costs so much. It is the providers that are charging 1000 dollar/pill, not the insurance companies.

I will agree though that they all participate in the scam of pricing so it appears that Medicare is getting some sort of discount.

I am not defending Health care insurance companies, I think that healthcare is the greediest of industries after being a lawyer. I am all for expanding Medicare to cover EVERYONE, Congress included. Then private companies can sell advantage plans and gap plans like they do today. That would seem to satisfy both sides.

What we are doing today, and what we were doing isn't tenable. Something needs to change.

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

Do you understand the concept of deep pockets?

Insurance companies collect large sums of money. Medical costs rise to meet those large piles of cash. It is the very reason you don't see large law suits against individuals but against corporations.

 

[Freewill]

DGS49, you left out one major problem with UHC here in the United Ststes... It's illegal and unconstitutional at the Federal level, and likely so in most states.

What law makes UHC illegal any more so then medicare or medicaid?

What part of the Constitution is violated?

Where in the constitution is the federal government giving purview of healthcare? Article 1 section 8 defines the powers of congress. There is nothing in there giving them the power to provide healthcare or health insurance to some individual citizens.

The "General welfare" phrase clearly does not when you consider what the author, James Madison, had to say about it.

If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions.” JM

Explain medicare, medicaid and the host of other medical services provided for by the government. Yes, medical coverage isn't mentioned in the COTUS because there was none in 1776 or much later. Just as the Internet is not mentioned.

 

[Freewill]

You've never heard of insurance?

How is insurance going to solve the large increase in health care costs? It isn't working today why would more be better? Consider that they now have a captive set of customers. customers who if they don't buy the health insurance's product will be penalized, almost no incentive to reduce cost.

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"


I am not defending Health care insurance companies, I think that healthcare is the greediest of industries after being a lawyer. I am all for expanding Medicare to cover EVERYONE, Congress included. Then private companies can sell advantage plans and gap plans like they do today. That would seem to satisfy both sides.

What we are doing today, and what we were doing isn't tenable. Something needs to change.

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

Do you understand the concept of deep pockets?

Insurance companies collect large sums of money. Medical costs rise to meet those large piles of cash. It is the very reason you don't see large law suits against individuals but against corporations.

What I see is statistics that tell me that Health Insurance takes about 5 percent. While that is significant it isn't the reason for why Health CARE costs so much. It is the providers that are charging 1000 dollar/pill, not the insurance companies.

I will agree though that they all participate in the scam of pricing so it appears that Medicare is getting some sort of discount.

 

[Freewill]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

I have a suggestion, but many people, maybe people like you, won't like it. Take responsibility for your own health. That means eat good food, not fast food crap, exercise, and don't smoke or abuse drugs. Many Americans don't want to do those things. People go to the doctor, doctor tells them they have high cholesterol, doctor tells them they can start exercising, stop eating the crap that has caused their cholesterol to rise, a strait eating healthier; or he can give them a prescription for a drug to lower their cholesterol with a bunch of adverse side affects. 9 out of ten take the prescription. They don't want to be responsible for their healthcare. How many posters on this board are taking prescription meds? 90% of those Rx are because of life style choices that you can control.

I do all that stuff, I go to Planet Fitness at least 3 time as week and I don't eat much junk food. Doesn't mean I am not going to hurt myself or get sick, just lower the probabilty.

So what do you think should happen to those who have existing conditions?

Myself, I have never used healthcare more then what I put into it. I would say I have never needed healthcare insurance. So you are talking to someone who has paid for someone else's healthcare for my entire life.

Doesn't mean I don't see problems that need fixed. What the healthcare industry is taking from the economy is the same as highway robbery. Compare the US cost to those of most developed countries, why does the US pay so much more?

Oh, by the way, your mountainous first sentence you can use to give yourself a colonoscopy.

 

[Darkwind]

How is insurance going to solve the large increase in health care costs? It isn't working today why would more be better? Consider that they now have a captive set of customers. customers who if they don't buy the health insurance's product will be penalized, almost no incentive to reduce cost.

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"


I am not defending Health care insurance companies, I think that healthcare is the greediest of industries after being a lawyer. I am all for expanding Medicare to cover EVERYONE, Congress included. Then private companies can sell advantage plans and gap plans like they do today. That would seem to satisfy both sides.

What we are doing today, and what we were doing isn't tenable. Something needs to change.

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

Do you understand the concept of deep pockets?

Insurance companies collect large sums of money. Medical costs rise to meet those large piles of cash. It is the very reason you don't see large law suits against individuals but against corporations.

What I see is statistics that tell me that Health Insurance takes about 5 percent. While that is significant it isn't the reason for why Health CARE costs so much. It is the providers that are charging 1000 dollar/pill, not the insurance companies.

I will agree though that they all participate in the scam of pricing so it appears that Medicare is getting some sort of discount.

If you are trying to make sense of this through statistics (aka Lies), then you'll never grasp the problem.

 

[Freewill]

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"


I am not defending Health care insurance companies, I think that healthcare is the greediest of industries after being a lawyer. I am all for expanding Medicare to cover EVERYONE, Congress included. Then private companies can sell advantage plans and gap plans like they do today. That would seem to satisfy both sides.

What we are doing today, and what we were doing isn't tenable. Something needs to change.

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

Do you understand the concept of deep pockets?

Insurance companies collect large sums of money. Medical costs rise to meet those large piles of cash. It is the very reason you don't see large law suits against individuals but against corporations.

What I see is statistics that tell me that Health Insurance takes about 5 percent. While that is significant it isn't the reason for why Health CARE costs so much. It is the providers that are charging 1000 dollar/pill, not the insurance companies.

I will agree though that they all participate in the scam of pricing so it appears that Medicare is getting some sort of discount.

If you are trying to make sense of this through statistics (aka Lies), then you'll never grasp the problem.

OK, one line it, what is the problem.

 

[Darkwind]

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

Do you understand the concept of deep pockets?

Insurance companies collect large sums of money. Medical costs rise to meet those large piles of cash. It is the very reason you don't see large law suits against individuals but against corporations.

What I see is statistics that tell me that Health Insurance takes about 5 percent. While that is significant it isn't the reason for why Health CARE costs so much. It is the providers that are charging 1000 dollar/pill, not the insurance companies.

I will agree though that they all participate in the scam of pricing so it appears that Medicare is getting some sort of discount.

If you are trying to make sense of this through statistics (aka Lies), then you'll never grasp the problem.

OK, one line it, what is the problem.

Insurance.

If there were no deep pockets, and people could only afford to pay a set price on services, then those services will come down to meet that level, or the service will go out of business for lack of customers.

 

[dblack]

Insurance.

Link?

You've never heard of insurance?

How is insurance going to solve the large increase in health care costs? It isn't working today why would more be better? Consider that they now have a captive set of customers. customers who if they don't buy the health insurance's product will be penalized, almost no incentive to reduce cost.

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

Where did I suggest that? You asked why medical care costs are skyrocketing. I'm saying it's because of the way we use health insurance. Insurance inverts consumer incentives and drives price inflation when it is overused. In most markets, it's a self-correcting problem. People who get too much insurance are just wasting their money and, eventually, figure it out. But the health care market is so distorted by bad public policy that most people haven't, although they're starting to. Young people, especially those who have avoided becoming "employees", stopped wasting their money on insurance a while, which is why the industry has been hell bent on forcing them to buy in.

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

The answer is to quit propping up a fantasy. Insurance isn't a social safety net.

 

[danielpalos]

National healthcare systems thrive for three things: Universality (everyone covered, more or less equally), quality, and low cost.

You can only achieve two, never three.

If you achieve universality and low cost, quality suffers (Cuba).

If you achieve high quality and universality (more or less), cost is breathtakingly high (U.S.).

If you achieve low cost and high quality, only a limited number of people have access.

Leftists in the U.S. demand universality and high quality (which we have, due to market-driven innovation), but think it can be financed with Other Peoples' Money.

Ain't happening. Everyone who even has a job will have to pay a shitload...which is O'Care.

End the drug war to pay for it, right wingers.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

DGS49, you left out one major problem with UHC here in the United Ststes... It's illegal and unconstitutional at the Federal level, and likely so in most states.

What law makes UHC illegal any more so then medicare or medicaid?

What part of the Constitution is violated?

Where in the constitution is the federal government giving purview of healthcare? Article 1 section 8 defines the powers of congress. There is nothing in there giving them the power to provide healthcare or health insurance to some individual citizens.

The "General welfare" phrase clearly does not when you consider what the author, James Madison, had to say about it.

If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions.” JM

Explain medicare, medicaid and the host of other medical services provided for by the government. Yes, medical coverage isn't mentioned in the COTUS because there was none in 1776 or much later. Just as the Internet is not mentioned.

Explain Medicare, Medicaid,and I'll toss in social security as well as abortion. None of these are things within the purview of the federal government according to the constitution. The internet is technology, not sure how you make (illogical) comparison. But it seems about right for you to try.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

What is your proposal to healthcare cost escalating to where people can not afford the premiums. For a lot of folks that is already the reality.

No matter who provides health care insurance the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?

I have a suggestion, but many people, maybe people like you, won't like it. Take responsibility for your own health. That means eat good food, not fast food crap, exercise, and don't smoke or abuse drugs. Many Americans don't want to do those things. People go to the doctor, doctor tells them they have high cholesterol, doctor tells them they can start exercising, stop eating the crap that has caused their cholesterol to rise, a strait eating healthier; or he can give them a prescription for a drug to lower their cholesterol with a bunch of adverse side affects. 9 out of ten take the prescription. They don't want to be responsible for their healthcare. How many posters on this board are taking prescription meds? 90% of those Rx are because of life style choices that you can control.

I do all that stuff, I go to Planet Fitness at least 3 time as week and I don't eat much junk food. Doesn't mean I am not going to hurt myself or get sick, just lower the probabilty.

So what do you think should happen to those who have existing conditions?

Myself, I have never used healthcare more then what I put into it. I would say I have never needed healthcare insurance. So you are talking to someone who has paid for someone else's healthcare for my entire life.

Doesn't mean I don't see problems that need fixed. What the healthcare industry is taking from the economy is the same as highway robbery. Compare the US cost to those of most developed countries, why does the US pay so much more?

Oh, by the way, your mountainous first sentence you can use to give yourself a colonoscopy.

First, stop with the silly comparisons of our healthcare system to other countries. There is no other country like ours, so trying to make comparisons is asinine, you Libs always try it tho.

We can agree there are problems, and frankly it is a big complicated system, so a single point solution likely doesn't exist. I feel much of the issues are with the amount of pharmaceutical drugs Americans take. We are 5% of the world population yet consume 80% of prescription opioids (painkillers). Watch TV for a day and count how many drugs are advertised for all sorts of ailments, and each one contains numerous disclosures for adverse side effects. Eastern medicine is much more holistic, and those populations eat a better more balance diet, lifestyle is key.

 

[debbiedowner]

How is insurance going to solve the large increase in health care costs? It isn't working today why would more be better? Consider that they now have a captive set of customers. customers who if they don't buy the health insurance's product will be penalized, almost no incentive to reduce cost.

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"


I am not defending Health care insurance companies, I think that healthcare is the greediest of industries after being a lawyer. I am all for expanding Medicare to cover EVERYONE, Congress included. Then private companies can sell advantage plans and gap plans like they do today. That would seem to satisfy both sides.

What we are doing today, and what we were doing isn't tenable. Something needs to change.

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

Do you understand the concept of deep pockets?

Insurance companies collect large sums of money. Medical costs rise to meet those large piles of cash. It is the very reason you don't see large law suits against individuals but against corporations.

What I see is statistics that tell me that Health Insurance takes about 5 percent. While that is significant it isn't the reason for why Health CARE costs so much. It is the providers that are charging 1000 dollar/pill, not the insurance companies.

I will agree though that they all participate in the scam of pricing so it appears that Medicare is getting some sort of discount.

The cost of health care including drugs and over use drives your premiums. One of the driving forces in premium increases are drug and doctor copays that the American public has been demanding for years. To add to this obamacare and the 10 essential beneifts shot it through the roof. Just ask people to give the co pays and essential benefits up, ain't going to happen.

Oh and Medicare does a fee schedule and it's not a whole hell of a lot.

 

[dblack]

Sorry. Guess I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was answering the second question, "...the cost of medical care is skyrocketing, why is that?"


I am not defending Health care insurance companies, I think that healthcare is the greediest of industries after being a lawyer. I am all for expanding Medicare to cover EVERYONE, Congress included. Then private companies can sell advantage plans and gap plans like they do today. That would seem to satisfy both sides.

What we are doing today, and what we were doing isn't tenable. Something needs to change.

The answer is: Insurance. Or, to be more precise, our abuse of insurance; abuse promoted by ill-conceived state policy.

So, the price of insurance is driven by the price of insurance?

So what is the answer? Cut everyone from insurance which would mean outlawing insurance all together? My wife's doctored demanded a check before he would operate. 2000 dollars and the operation took no more then 3 hours, if that. He did three operations that I know of before 1 pm. How do you think insurance effected that price?

Do you understand the concept of deep pockets?

Insurance companies collect large sums of money. Medical costs rise to meet those large piles of cash. It is the very reason you don't see large law suits against individuals but against corporations.

What I see is statistics that tell me that Health Insurance takes about 5 percent. While that is significant it isn't the reason for why Health CARE costs so much. It is the providers that are charging 1000 dollar/pill, not the insurance companies.

I will agree though that they all participate in the scam of pricing so it appears that Medicare is getting some sort of discount.

The cost of health care including drugs and over use drives your premiums. One of the driving forces in premium increases are drug and doctor copays that the American public has been demanding for years. To add to this obamacare and the 10 essential beneifts shot it through the roof. Just ask people to give the co pays and essential benefits up, ain't going to happen.

Oh and Medicare does a fee schedule and it's not a whole hell of a lot.

What the fuck is 'over use' supposed to mean? I've heard this before. Is this an allusion to the inverted demand created by insurance?