National Debt not that Bad

[Skeptik]

So do you have $400,000 to pay off your share of the debt? most people don't

No need. Just learn Mandarin, so you can talk to our new owners. Surely, there will be a need for that in the new world order.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

It's just a little lung cancer...it's not that bad. Thanks Doc! I feel better now.

You talk about national debt as if the world would be better off if it were at $0. This is not the case. Without Treasuries, the Federal Reserve would have to buy other, less stable assets, which would make the dollar less stable.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Where does entitlement money wind up? Not in the economy somehow? Does it just vaporize?

Not all spending is of equal value to the economy. Private invement in a business creates more jobs than the government handing out welfare checks.

You're still acting as if those entitlement checks just sit at the recipient's house gathering dust instead of being injected directly into the economy (before the ink is dry in many cases).

 

[SpidermanTuba]

So do you have $400,000 to pay off your share of the debt? most people don't

You're off by a digit

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Your graph is NOT UP TO DATE. Extend Obama's line up to 94% for 2010 and then look at it again.

Ok. Still higher under truman.

(1) you are not understanding the difference between borrowing to produce productive machinery to win WWII or defeat the USSR and spending in on entitlements and non-productive transfers.

Where does entitlement money wind up? Not in the economy somehow? Does it just vaporize?

I can see you are unfamiliar with certain economic concepts. Instead of lecturing you, I will ask you a famous thought-provoking question from Freshman economics class:

"To solve unemployment, why doesn't the government just pay people to dig ditches, and then pay some other people to fill the wholes back up again. Unemployment problem solved!!" Discuss

Poor people don't spend their money paying people to dig ditches and fill them back up ya' friggin' smarty pants moron, so I fail to see how your silly freshman level question that is supposed to sound deep but is really a 3rd grade level question applies. Poor people typically spend the bulk of their income on food, clothing, housing, transportation - so they'd be paying people to actually produce something if given a little extra money.

If you can't see how your silly question doesn't apply maybe you should jump off your high horse and go back to freshman economics.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Ok. Still higher under truman.





Where does entitlement money wind up? Not in the economy somehow? Does it just vaporize?

I can see you are unfamiliar with certain economic concepts. Instead of lecturing you, I will ask you a famous thought-provoking question from Freshman economics class:

"To solve unemployment, why doesn't the government just pay people to dig ditches, and then pay some other people to fill the wholes back up again. Unemployment problem solved!!" Discuss

Poor people don't spend their money paying people to dig ditches and fill them back up ya' friggin' smarty pants moron, so I fail to see how your silly freshman level question that is supposed to sound deep but is really a 3rd grade level question applies. Poor people typically spend the bulk of their income on food, clothing, housing, transportation - so they'd be paying people to actually produce something if given a little extra money.

If you can't see how your silly question doesn't apply maybe you should jump off your high horse and go back to freshman economics.

Well...let'start with third grade reading comprehension for starters...you said "poor people" are paying people to dig ditches and fill them in and the question was "government" paying people to dig ditches and fill them in.
and you claim to be a nuclear expert? Where did you work? 3 Mile Island? Chernobyl?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I can see you are unfamiliar with certain economic concepts. Instead of lecturing you, I will ask you a famous thought-provoking question from Freshman economics class:

"To solve unemployment, why doesn't the government just pay people to dig ditches, and then pay some other people to fill the wholes back up again. Unemployment problem solved!!" Discuss

Poor people don't spend their money paying people to dig ditches and fill them back up ya' friggin' smarty pants moron, so I fail to see how your silly freshman level question that is supposed to sound deep but is really a 3rd grade level question applies. Poor people typically spend the bulk of their income on food, clothing, housing, transportation - so they'd be paying people to actually produce something if given a little extra money.

If you can't see how your silly question doesn't apply maybe you should jump off your high horse and go back to freshman economics.

Well...let'start with third grade reading comprehension for starters...you said "poor people" are paying people to dig ditches and fill them in and the question was "government" paying people to dig ditches and fill them in.
and you claim to be a nuclear expert? Where did you work? 3 Mile Island? Chernobyl?

I never claimed to be a nuclear expert you tool, I'm a theoretical astrophysicist/cab driver in training.

 

[Xenophon]

In 1945 the world's economies were in ruins, save for the USA which was the major producer.

Comparing that to today is the act of the extremly stupid.

 

[California Girl]

In 1945 the world's economies were in ruins, save for the USA which was the major producer.

Comparing that to today is the act of the extremly stupid.

Sometimes these threads are almost painful to read.

 

[The Rabbi]

Where does entitlement money wind up? Not in the economy somehow? Does it just vaporize?

Not all spending is of equal value to the economy. Private invement in a business creates more jobs than the government handing out welfare checks.

You're still acting as if those entitlement checks just sit at the recipient's house gathering dust instead of being injected directly into the economy (before the ink is dry in many cases).

Another one who believes consumer spending results in a better economy. This idea was debunked in 1945.
If what you said were true then gov't should just send people a $10k check every 6 months or so.
In fact the money has to come from somewhere. So while you see welfare recipients spending their money on Black N Milds and 40oz's you don't see the tax money being taken from businessmen who then cannot invest in new employees or new equipment, which are the drivers of job growth and expansion.

 

[txlonghorn]

It's just a little lung cancer...it's not that bad. Thanks Doc! I feel better now.

You talk about national debt as if the world would be better off if it were at $0. This is not the case. Without Treasuries, the Federal Reserve would have to buy other, less stable assets, which would make the dollar less stable.

As opposed to just printing more money and borrowing against the paper?

You talk about the debt as though it doesn't matter how high it goes.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

. So while you see welfare recipients spending their money on Black N Milds and 40oz's

You can't buy booze black n milds with food stamps.

you don't see the tax money being taken from businessmen who then cannot invest in new employees or new equipment, which are the drivers of job growth and expansion.

Right, its only the businessmen driving the economy, they don't actually need anyone to buy their goods or services, or any employees - its all them, 100%.



I will tell you this. If a businessman doesn't want to provide his low wage workers health insurance - which no one could blame him for considering the cost - and that low wage worker has kids and gets a serious illness - someone is going to pay.

 

[boedicca]

The principles of financial responsibility that apply to an individual (i.e., living within one's means) don't become invalid just because 300 million people are aggregated by a government system.

Just sayin'.

 

[The Rabbi]

. So while you see welfare recipients spending their money on Black N Milds and 40oz's

You can't buy booze black n milds with food stamps.

you don't see the tax money being taken from businessmen who then cannot invest in new employees or new equipment, which are the drivers of job growth and expansion.

Right, its only the businessmen driving the economy, they don't actually need anyone to buy their goods or services, or any employees - its all them, 100%

Your arguments are all failing.
Money is fungible. Look up the word.
Growth is generated by business investment, not consumer spending. Investment precedes spending, not the other way around. Businesses anticipate consumer demand so come first.
If we could become rich by transfer payments Greece would be an economic powerhouse.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

It's just a little lung cancer...it's not that bad. Thanks Doc! I feel better now.

You talk about national debt as if the world would be better off if it were at $0. This is not the case. Without Treasuries, the Federal Reserve would have to buy other, less stable assets, which would make the dollar less stable.

As opposed to just printing more money and borrowing against the paper?

You talk about the debt as though it doesn't matter how high it goes.

If you seriously think Treasuries are not the safest U.S. dollar valued asset around - I would recommend getting all of your investments out of U.S. dollar valued assets.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

The principles of financial responsibility that apply to an individual (i.e., living within one's means) don't become invalid just because 300 million people are aggregated by a government system.

Just sayin'.

The presence of an expensive serious disease in a person does not automatically translate into them being able to work harder and make more money. Usually its the opposite in fact.

 

[The Rabbi]

You talk about national debt as if the world would be better off if it were at $0. This is not the case. Without Treasuries, the Federal Reserve would have to buy other, less stable assets, which would make the dollar less stable.

As opposed to just printing more money and borrowing against the paper?

You talk about the debt as though it doesn't matter how high it goes.

If you seriously think Treasuries are not the safest U.S. dollar valued asset around - I would recommend getting all of your investments out of U.S. dollar valued assets.

I dont see where he said anything like that.
And your statements are non-sequiturs.

 

[boedicca]

The principles of financial responsibility that apply to an individual (i.e., living within one's means) don't become invalid just because 300 million people are aggregated by a government system.

Just sayin'.

The presence of an expensive serious disease in a person does not automatically translate into them being able to work harder and make more money. Usually its the opposite in fact.

I was replying to TX regarding debt. Should have quoted him - sorry for the confusion.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Money is fungible. Look up the word.

Yeah I know what the word means, thanks. You must surely think you're the smartest person in the world.

Growth is generated by business investment, not consumer spending.

Right, like I said, we don't need consumer spending for growth. We just need people to open up businesses. No consumers required. I think we tried that same philosophy with houses a few years ago, did it work out?

 

[boedicca]

Money is fungible. Look up the word.

Yeah I know what the word means, thanks. You must surely think you're the smartest person in the world.

Growth is generated by business investment, not consumer spending.

Right, like I said, we don't need consumer spending for growth. We just need people to open up businesses. No consumers required. I think we tried that same philosophy with houses a few years ago, did it work out?

Uh...what happens to those business when nobody buys anything from them?

Nearly 3/4 of our economy is driven by consumer spending. Businesses are not going to start, expand, or hire until the outlook for consumer spending improves. Faced with the Obama Tax Hikes, many consumers are going to be cutting or holding spending flat.

Business investment is necessary for growth, but without consumers, there is not a good rationale for much of it.