Nancy Lanza

[wavingrl]

There is much speculation about the mother of Adam Lanza and those that own guns.

A full spectrum of beliefs is encompassed I am certain.

When I read things like--'she embraced the ideals of New Hampshire', the 'Live Free or Die' state that brings people like Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson to mind. What now might be said about them--I don't know. I have enjoyed some of their writing and agreed with many of the ideas. 'Liberals'--maybe so, maybe so.

http://transcendentalism.tamu.edu/authors/thoreau/

http://transcendentalism.tamu.edu/authors/emerson/

'Yankees'/Americans--Do if for yourself--independent, tough minded and strong willed, personal responsibility, prepared to deal with whatever life brings, etc

or perhaps this is closer to what she believed?

http://www.survivalblog.com/precepts.html

~~

What would I have done in this woman's position? That is what I ask myself.

She knew 'something' was not right with her child, exactly how she coped is not clear. It sounds like a very difficult life for all concerned.

eta:--How would someone like Thoreau be assessed?
Go Here: http://thoreau.eserver.org/emerson1.html


On Antiques Roadshow last night a vase was thought to have been produced by a well-known craftsman in MS in the 20's, 30's--they said he 'had difficulties' --a talented artist and was able to produce many beautiful pieces.

Maybe Nancy Lanza thought something like that was possible for her son?

Discuss.

 

[SayMyName]

I question the reason of a mother who would keep an AR-15 military style rifle in her home when she knew she had a son with serious behavioral issues.

 

[Katzndogz]

Nancy Lanza loved her son. She didn't want to admit that there was something wrong with him. That's why she took him shooting. He was to be treated at all times as the normal boy she saw. Every time a parent takes their disturbed child to school and demands that they be mainstreamed a parent makes the same mistakes as Nancy Lanza. That's why these parents cannot be permitted to make these decisions. They make them emotionally. They think that the presence of a disturbed child in a class of normal children enriches the whole class. Having a child prone to violent outbursts in an ordinary classroom is inclusive. There are acres of books written about how mainstreaming retarded and violent children is a benefit to the normal class. No doubt Nancy Lanza believed them, until it got out of hand. We don't know what she thought, but since she took Adam out of school, she likely blamed the school for not understanding her son enough. They weren't accommodating enough. All she had to do to protect her child was get him away from all these people who didn't understand him.

Nancy Lanza paid the price for loving her son so much. She's dead. It's not enough. Adam Lanza had a father and a brother who both knew how disturbed Lanza was. They refused to have anything to do with him. They should have been able to do more once they recognized how bad off the boy was.

 

[wavingrl]

Nancy Lanza loved her son. She didn't want to admit that there was something wrong with him. That's why she took him shooting. He was to be treated at all times as the normal boy she saw. Every time a parent takes their disturbed child to school and demands that they be mainstreamed a parent makes the same mistakes as Nancy Lanza. That's why these parents cannot be permitted to make these decisions. They make them emotionally. They think that the presence of a disturbed child in a class of normal children enriches the whole class. Having a child prone to violent outbursts in an ordinary classroom is inclusive. There are acres of books written about how mainstreaming retarded and violent children is a benefit to the normal class. No doubt Nancy Lanza believed them, until it got out of hand. We don't know what she thought, but since she took Adam out of school, she likely blamed the school for not understanding her son enough. They weren't accommodating enough. All she had to do to protect her child was get him away from all these people who didn't understand him.

Nancy Lanza paid the price for loving her son so much. She's dead. It's not enough. Adam Lanza had a father and a brother who both knew how disturbed Lanza was. They refused to have anything to do with him. They should have been able to do more once they recognized how bad off the boy was.

possibly and probably, you are correct.

I also wonder if Adam 'couldn't relate' to his father and brother? No choice but to live their lives?

Having taught, I don't care to imagine the complex issues connected to his education.

I understand why church bells were rung 26 times by some churches, 27 by others and I think one church rang the bells 28 times.

 

[Zoom-boing]

When my special needs son went to kindergarten (public school) they placed him in the regular kindergarten classroom and this was all documented/set in his IEP. They did this despite us telling them repeatedly that he cannot handle that situation, he cannot handle that many kids around him, he will not last in this classroom, despite us bringing a previous teacher who knew him well with us to the IEP meeting to get them to place him in a different class. 'No, no' they said 'we must place him in the least restrictive setting and if he does ok that is where he stays' Mainstream and all that jazz. The school made the call and ignored us. Within three weeks of school starting they contacted us, another IEP meeting was held, he was pulled from that classroom and placed in a different setting. It was hard to not to say 'I told you so' to them. Don't assume that it's the parent(s) who does the demanding.

The school had an obligation to place Adam in the correct setting. Did they? We don't know if the school evaluated him, placed him in mainstream classes (he was smart) and had social/emotional therapies services for him too. We don't know if his mother treated/saw him as 'normal' and demanding that the school do the likewise. There is too much we don't know to assume anything. She eventually pulled him from school ... did she do this because the school was over restrictive or under restrictive?

I keep thinking 'why in the world would she teach him to shoot'. She was a survivalist, she was his mother ... she knew something was wrong with her son ... did she teach him to shoot so he could protect himself in case something happened to her? That's the only explanation that comes to my mind because you don't teach someone who is mentally unstable -- regardless of whether they are violent or not -- to shoot.

 

[wavingrl]

Every case is different--that's a given.

How the problems developed is also a factor. How things were handled in that school district which seems exceptionally geared toward supporting students--I have no idea.

??In one class at Sandy Hook there were only 14 students--I think that was a kindergarten.

Maybe sometime in the near future more definitive fyi will be released.

I am not interested enough to research the educational policies and philosophies of that school district.

People cannot share 'everything'.

I guess all we can take from this is utilize all resources.

Speaking of esoteric people--Willie Nelson was interviewed on Piers Morgan. He has written a book. He certainly has marched to a different drum. Picked up a guitar--maybe that is a better choice?

 

[Katzndogz]

Jeffrey Dahmer's IQ was in the range of genius. Which, like Adam Lanza didn't mean because he was very intelligent he was also sane. It is very common to assume that because someone is smart they are also sane. Most of the time they are quite insane although the nature of the insanity doesn't mean they are harmful. Albert Einstein was a genius who picked up cigarette butts off the side walk. His doctor told him not to buy tobacco for his pipe. He didn't buy the tobacco but gleaned it from discarded cigarette butts believing because he didn't pay for the tobacco it was safe to smoke.

Every instance of mass murder that we have had share a single characteristic. Someone or more than one person knew that the shooter was insane and for various reasons did nothing about it. Jared Loughner was dismissed as being a harmless pothead. James Holmes doctor knew how dangerous he was but when he withdrew from school had no further obligation and washed her hands of his problems. Seung-Hui Cho the shooter at Virginia Tech was known to have mental problems since junior high school. His behavior and writings while at Virginia Tech were a matter of "concern". No one did anything even as his violence became more pronounced. No one noticed that Kleibold and Harris were dreaming of attacking American "life" by killing their classmates. Really? No one noticed? Sure they did, then promptly forgot about it. Charles Whitman, the Texas Tower shooter knew that he was slipping away but was powerless to stop himself. He wrote: "I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts."

Whitman knew that something was wrong. His note further reads, "After my death I wish that an autopsy would be performed on me to see if there is any visible physical disorder." And indeed there was. Whitman was found to have a glioblastoma, a type of brain tumor, pressing against regions of the brain thought to be responsible for the regulation of strong emotions.

There is no such thing as passing laws that prevent mass murder by the insane. The insane will just ignore those laws. If they cannot shoot, they will hack. They will bomb. They will commit untold acts of carnage. In Connecticut no one had the power to stop Adam Lanza whether he had a gun or an axe or a rusty paring knife. They were all still unarmed.

 

[wavingrl]

Charles Whitman, the Texas Tower shooter knew that he was slipping away but was powerless to stop himself. He wrote: "I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts."

Whitman knew that something was wrong. His note further reads, "After my death I wish that an autopsy would be performed on me to see if there is any visible physical disorder." And indeed there was. Whitman was found to have a glioblastoma, a type of brain tumor, pressing against regions of the brain thought to be responsible for the regulation of strong emotions.

There is no such thing as passing laws that prevent mass murder by the insane. The insane will just ignore those laws. If they cannot shoot, they will hack. They will bomb. They will commit untold acts of carnage. In Connecticut no one had the power to stop Adam Lanza whether he had a gun or an axe or a rusty paring knife. They were all still unarmed.

That just about 'sums it up'.

I suppose I am in the minority but if 'the loss of life' is to be grieved then I include Adam and Nancy Lanza.

Why anyone has to suffer from mental or physical illnesses--that is very difficult to accept.

A lot to process for everyone it seems.

 

[syrenn]

There is much speculation about the mother of Adam Lanza and those that own guns.

A full spectrum of beliefs is encompassed I am certain.

When I read things like--'she embraced the ideals of New Hampshire', the 'Live Free or Die' state that brings people like Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson to mind. What now might be said about them--I don't know. I have enjoyed some of their writing and agreed with many of the ideas. 'Liberals'--maybe so, maybe so.

Henry David Thoreau

Ralph Waldo Emerson

'Yankees'/Americans--Do if for yourself--independent, tough minded and strong willed, personal responsibility, prepared to deal with whatever life brings, etc

or perhaps this is closer to what she believed?

Precepts of Rawlesian Survivalist Philosophy

~~

What would I have done in this woman's position? That is what I ask myself.

She knew 'something' was not right with her child, exactly how she coped is not clear. It sounds like a very difficult life for all concerned.

eta:--How would someone like Thoreau be assessed?
Go Here: Emerson's Thoreau


On Antiques Roadshow last night a vase was thought to have been produced by a well-known craftsman in MS in the 20's, 30's--they said he 'had difficulties' --a talented artist and was able to produce many beautiful pieces.

Maybe Nancy Lanza thought something like that was possible for her son?

Discuss.

Every parent wants to believe that their "not right children with difficulties" have some redeeming value.... Not many of them will ever admit to themselves that their "not right children with difficulties" could be dangerous.

 

[Connery]

The kid exhibited a great deal of problems over a long period of time . The mother had a responsibility to her son and all who would have been effected. She failed in her responsibilities.

The reasoning for targeting the school could be that it was purportedly a source for a great deal of angst and grief for the killer and his mother. "Adam's mother, Nancy Lanza, had disputes with the local school district and eventually ended up home schooling Adam." His aunt stated, "I'm not 100 percent certain if it was behavior, learning disabilities, I really don't know. But he was very, very bright. He was smart."

However, the apple did not fall far from the tree, "Nancy Lanza kept guns for own safety, and had something of a survivalist mentality; she was worried about protecting her home if the economy went south." Worry about the economy is one thing, arming one' self in the event of a failed economy is another. The house was a breeding ground for emotional instability and perhaps mental illness.

Investigators probe life of mass-murderer Adam Lanza - CBS News

 

[wavingrl]

Every parent wants to believe that their "not right children with difficulties" have some redeeming value.... Not many of the will ever admit to themselves that their "not right children with difficulties" could be dangerous.

I suppose. My friend certainly admitted that her son had issues. If there are those who haven't been touched by such challenges there is no shortage of heartbreaking stories.

I suppose my POV is skewed. With the sort of problems that have been described I tend to believe she tried everything. I could be wrong.

I certainly do hope research will one day provide some answers.

 

[Connery]

Every parent wants to believe that their "not right children with difficulties" have some redeeming value.... Not many of the will ever admit to themselves that their "not right children with difficulties" could be dangerous.

I suppose. My friend certainly admitted that her son had issues. If there are those who haven't been touched by such challenges there is no shortage of heartbreaking stories.

I suppose my POV is skewed. With the sort of problems that have been described I tend to believe she tried everything. I could be wrong.

I certainly do hope research will one day provide some answers.

Ms. Lanza gave her son access to firearms. She did not do all she could or should have done.

 

[freedombecki]

When my special needs son went to kindergarten (public school) they placed him in the regular kindergarten classroom and this was all documented/set in his IEP. They did this despite us telling them repeatedly that he cannot handle that situation, he cannot handle that many kids around him, he will not last in this classroom, despite us bringing a previous teacher who knew him well with us to the IEP meeting to get them to place him in a different class. 'No, no' they said 'we must place him in the least restrictive setting and if he does ok that is where he stays' Mainstream and all that jazz. The school made the call and ignored us. Within three weeks of school starting they contacted us, another IEP meeting was held, he was pulled from that classroom and placed in a different setting. It was hard to not to say 'I told you so' to them. Don't assume that it's the parent(s) who does the demanding.

The school had an obligation to place Adam in the correct setting. Did they? We don't know if the school evaluated him, placed him in mainstream classes (he was smart) and had social/emotional therapies services for him too. We don't know if his mother treated/saw him as 'normal' and demanding that the school do the likewise. There is too much we don't know to assume anything. She eventually pulled him from school ... did she do this because the school was over restrictive or under restrictive?

I keep thinking 'why in the world would she teach him to shoot'. She was a survivalist, she was his mother ... she knew something was wrong with her son ... did she teach him to shoot so he could protect himself in case something happened to her? That's the only explanation that comes to my mind because you don't teach someone who is mentally unstable -- regardless of whether they are violent or not -- to shoot.

Some anomalies in a child are passed directly from a parent with the same one. She may have been as ill as him, but simply never got treatment for her issues, as she may have been able to disguise it mostly from the outside world, but probably not from her family. This is not known but it makes one wonder if she had something wrong, too, that never got fixed medically or psychologically. From the sounds of her behaviors, I'm guessing something was out of kilter in her, but somehow she was still able to at least partially function in the outside world. She made poor choices. She and the community paid the price. It's so sad.

 

[Katzndogz]

Nancy Lanza did all she could do as a loving and blinded mother. That's why someone else should have stepped in. A judge could order an abortion in defiance of parental wishes but not stop mass murder? That's a failure to correctly prioritize.

Up until the point Adam Lanza pulled the trigger he was a law abiding citized who never committed a crime. He was entitled to the full protections of all that we offer. Except he shouldn't have been.

 

[wavingrl]

Every parent wants to believe that their "not right children with difficulties" have some redeeming value.... Not many of the will ever admit to themselves that their "not right children with difficulties" could be dangerous.

I suppose. My friend certainly admitted that her son had issues. If there are those who haven't been touched by such challenges there is no shortage of heartbreaking stories.

I suppose my POV is skewed. With the sort of problems that have been described I tend to believe she tried everything. I could be wrong.

I certainly do hope research will one day provide some answers.

Ms. Lanza gave her son access to firearms. She did not do all she could or should have done.

that's true.

Maybe somewhere someone has removed firearms from their home.

What else can be said? My parents were perhaps overly cautious about guns--I can't get into gun control. Most owners are responsible--beyond that I don't have an opinion. Guns seem to be expensive and require extensive training. Not something I am likely to pursue. fwiw.

 

[Connery]

I suppose. My friend certainly admitted that her son had issues. If there are those who haven't been touched by such challenges there is no shortage of heartbreaking stories.

I suppose my POV is skewed. With the sort of problems that have been described I tend to believe she tried everything. I could be wrong.

I certainly do hope research will one day provide some answers.

Ms. Lanza gave her son access to firearms. She did not do all she could or should have done.

that's true.

Maybe somewhere someone has removed firearms from their home.

What else can be said? My parents were perhaps overly cautious about guns--I can't get into gun control. Most owners are responsible--beyond that I don't have an opinion. Guns seem to be expensive and require extensive training. Not something I am likely to pursue. fwiw.

This is not a statement about guns, rather, about parental responsibility. The mother was negligent and should taken more care with the killer child. There were clear indications that he was not a boon, but, a bane to society.

 

[syrenn]

Every parent wants to believe that their "not right children with difficulties" have some redeeming value.... Not many of the will ever admit to themselves that their "not right children with difficulties" could be dangerous.

I suppose. My friend certainly admitted that her son had issues. If there are those who haven't been touched by such challenges there is no shortage of heartbreaking stories.

I suppose my POV is skewed. With the sort of problems that have been described I tend to believe she tried everything. I could be wrong.

I certainly do hope research will one day provide some answers.

Ms. Lanza gave her son access to firearms. She did not do all she could or should have done.

She did not exactly "give" him firearms. She introduced him and showed him how to use guns. In this, in my opinion she was very wrong.... i believe she knew her son was mentally impaired.

and for all of that.... she is still not responsible for her sons actions.

 

[Zoom]

There is much speculation about the mother of Adam Lanza and those that own guns.

A full spectrum of beliefs is encompassed I am certain.

When I read things like--'she embraced the ideals of New Hampshire', the 'Live Free or Die' state that brings people like Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson to mind. What now might be said about them--I don't know. I have enjoyed some of their writing and agreed with many of the ideas. 'Liberals'--maybe so, maybe so.

Henry David Thoreau

Ralph Waldo Emerson

'Yankees'/Americans--Do if for yourself--independent, tough minded and strong willed, personal responsibility, prepared to deal with whatever life brings, etc

or perhaps this is closer to what she believed?

Precepts of Rawlesian Survivalist Philosophy

~~

What would I have done in this woman's position? That is what I ask myself.

She knew 'something' was not right with her child, exactly how she coped is not clear. It sounds like a very difficult life for all concerned.

eta:--How would someone like Thoreau be assessed?
Go Here: Emerson's Thoreau


On Antiques Roadshow last night a vase was thought to have been produced by a well-known craftsman in MS in the 20's, 30's--they said he 'had difficulties' --a talented artist and was able to produce many beautiful pieces.

Maybe Nancy Lanza thought something like that was possible for her son?

Discuss.

She was a gun nut, a survivalist and probably a fox lover (as opposed to a MSNBC fan). All of this kind of falls in place sadly.

 

[Connery]

I suppose. My friend certainly admitted that her son had issues. If there are those who haven't been touched by such challenges there is no shortage of heartbreaking stories.

I suppose my POV is skewed. With the sort of problems that have been described I tend to believe she tried everything. I could be wrong.

I certainly do hope research will one day provide some answers.

Ms. Lanza gave her son access to firearms. She did not do all she could or should have done.

She did not exactly "give" him firearms. She introduced him and showed him how to use guns. In this, in my opinion she was very wrong.... i believe she knew her son was mentally impaired.

and for all of that.... she is still not responsible for her sons actions.

I said "gave her son access" you provided a perfect example when you stated, "introduced him and showed him how to use guns". Ms. Lanza was responsible for her own reckless and poor judgment.

 

[wavingrl]

Discuss.

She was a gun nut, a survivalist and probably a fox lover (as opposed to a MSNBC fan). All of this kind of falls in place sadly.

Probably so. I wouldn't know much about her lifestyle.

Without financial resources--possibly he would have been incarcerated or dead.

That was something I didn't enjoy about teaching. It always seemed there must be something that could be done and sometimes there wasn't. It is possible there were many conferences--'The school has X, Y and Z resources' none quite right for this student--so homeschooling. I would think that school district is comparable to some of the best private schools--so we don't need to consider the shortcomings of public education, which is a relief.