Name one good thing Islam is doing for the whole of humanity today ...

[JimBowie1958]

I have studied various versions of the Bible for 60 years (starting from the time I was around 12) and find the Book to be confusing. Christians, using the same Book as their guideline, cannot agree on what it says. On the several forums I have visited, the most heated arguments are not between Christians and non-Christians, but between Christians.

To understand the Bible you have to do the following:

1. Try to interpret the text with respect to the literary form it is. Dont interpret a book of poetry the same way you would interpret a book of secular law or a personal letter to friends in a distant church.

2. Try to take existing interpretations as food for thought, but do not restrict yourself to them. You may find something new and also True from your own experience.

3. Recognize that all Christians (pretty much) start with inherited concepts that they read into the Bible and no denomination is innocent of this.

4. Almost all understanding of the Bible that goes beyond fairly direct statements, that any complexity to them beyond 'Dont do that.' is plausibly a misunderstanding, so one should always bear inmind that one might be wrong and so try to remain open minded on the topic if it is not central to Judaism or Chrisitanity as systems of faith.

5. Whatever system of theology you think the Bible best fits to, write it down now, seal it in an envelope and put it away, and in twenty years take it out and read it again. If you are not shocked at your ignorance when you wrote it then you havent been taking the subject seriously enough.

The Bible has so many layers of understanding and communication that people have spent their entire lives doing nothing but reading it and studying it and still find new wisdom and moral truths in it till the day they die.

So I hope you dont expect to find a final meaning in it.

 

[The Professor]

I have studied various versions of the Bible for 60 years (starting from the time I was around 12) and find the Book to be confusing. Christians, using the same Book as their guideline, cannot agree on what it says. On the several forums I have visited, the most heated arguments are not between Christians and non-Christians, but between Christians.

To understand the Bible you have to do the following:

1. Try to interpret the text with respect to the literary form it is. Dont interpret a book of poetry the same way you would interpret a book of secular law or a personal letter to friends in a distant church.

2. Try to take existing interpretations as food for thought, but do not restrict yourself to them. You may find something new and also True from your own experience.

3. Recognize that all Christians (pretty much) start with inherited concepts that they read into the Bible and no denomination is innocent of this.

4. Almost all understanding of the Bible that goes beyond fairly direct statements, that any complexity to them beyond 'Dont do that.' is plausibly a misunderstanding, so one should always bear inmind that one might be wrong and so try to remain open minded on the topic if it is not central to Judaism or Chrisitanity as systems of faith.

5. Whatever system of theology you think the Bible best fits to, write it down now, seal it in an envelope and put it away, and in twenty years take it out and read it again. If you are not shocked at your ignorance when you wrote it then you havent been taking the subject seriously enough.

The Bible has so many layers of understanding and communication that people have spent their entire lives doing nothing but reading it and studying it and still find new wisdom and moral truths in it till the day they die.

So I hope you dont expect to find a final meaning in it.

The fact that I find the Bible to be confusing does not in any way suggest I do not understand it. For example, if I were to ask you how many times Peter denied Christ before the cock crowed for the first time, I might expect you to say three times because that is exactly what Matthew, Luke and John relate. However, the book of Mark makes it clear that the cock crowed for the first time after Peter's first denial and again after the third. I completely understand all four accounts and I find the apparent contradiction to be confusing.

Nonetheless, I thank you for your thoughtful and well-reasoned response. I am not a Bible-believing Christian, but I respect those who believe the Bible and live their lives in accordance with their beliefs, whatever they might be.

Have a great day.

 

[Avatar4321]

Third, you're hatred toward muslims will only continue the conflict with no resolution.

The Bible says to love thy neighbor as thyself and to love the stranger and foreigner

Can you show us where the Quran says to love non-Muslims?

I don't follow the Quran. So what it says or doesn't say is irrelevant.

 

[Lokiate]

Can anyone name one good thing the vile cult of Islam is doing for all of humanity today ???

They gave us astronomy, and the numeral system we use today. Now, they give us fuck-tons of crude oil. When theocracy is allowed over freedom, shit gets stupid.

 

[AmericanFirst]

I have studied various versions of the Bible for 60 years (starting from the time I was around 12) and find the Book to be confusing. Christians, using the same Book as their guideline, cannot agree on what it says. On the several forums I have visited, the most heated arguments are not between Christians and non-Christians, but between Christians.

To understand the Bible you have to do the following:

1. Try to interpret the text with respect to the literary form it is. Dont interpret a book of poetry the same way you would interpret a book of secular law or a personal letter to friends in a distant church.

2. Try to take existing interpretations as food for thought, but do not restrict yourself to them. You may find something new and also True from your own experience.

3. Recognize that all Christians (pretty much) start with inherited concepts that they read into the Bible and no denomination is innocent of this.

4. Almost all understanding of the Bible that goes beyond fairly direct statements, that any complexity to them beyond 'Dont do that.' is plausibly a misunderstanding, so one should always bear inmind that one might be wrong and so try to remain open minded on the topic if it is not central to Judaism or Chrisitanity as systems of faith.

5. Whatever system of theology you think the Bible best fits to, write it down now, seal it in an envelope and put it away, and in twenty years take it out and read it again. If you are not shocked at your ignorance when you wrote it then you havent been taking the subject seriously enough.

The Bible has so many layers of understanding and communication that people have spent their entire lives doing nothing but reading it and studying it and still find new wisdom and moral truths in it till the day they die.

So I hope you dont expect to find a final meaning in it.

The fact that I find the Bible to be confusing does not in any way suggest I do not understand it. For example, if I were to ask you how many times Peter denied Christ before the cock crowed for the first time, I might expect you to say three times because that is exactly what Matthew, Luke and John relate. However, the book of Mark makes it clear that the cock crowed for the first time after Peter's first denial and again after the third. I completely understand all four accounts and I find the apparent contradiction to be confusing.

Nonetheless, I thank you for your thoughtful and well-reasoned response. I am not a Bible-believing Christian, but I respect those who believe the Bible and live their lives in accordance with their beliefs, whatever they might be.

Have a great day.

If you are not a Bible believing CHRISTIAN, YOU ARE NOT A TRUE CHRISTIAN.

 

[High_Gravity]

Shawarmas and hummus?

 

[High_Gravity]

Can anyone name one good thing the vile cult of Islam is doing for all of humanity today ???

More than you bitch.

 

[strollingbones]

united christians in hate.......yea i will go with that

 

[strollingbones]

and i had forgotten how much i liked cat stevens

 

[Mr Natural]

They make the evangelicals look almost sane be comparison.

 

[The Professor]

To understand the Bible you have to do the following:

1. Try to interpret the text with respect to the literary form it is. Dont interpret a book of poetry the same way you would interpret a book of secular law or a personal letter to friends in a distant church.

2. Try to take existing interpretations as food for thought, but do not restrict yourself to them. You may find something new and also True from your own experience.

3. Recognize that all Christians (pretty much) start with inherited concepts that they read into the Bible and no denomination is innocent of this.

4. Almost all understanding of the Bible that goes beyond fairly direct statements, that any complexity to them beyond 'Dont do that.' is plausibly a misunderstanding, so one should always bear inmind that one might be wrong and so try to remain open minded on the topic if it is not central to Judaism or Chrisitanity as systems of faith.

5. Whatever system of theology you think the Bible best fits to, write it down now, seal it in an envelope and put it away, and in twenty years take it out and read it again. If you are not shocked at your ignorance when you wrote it then you havent been taking the subject seriously enough.

The Bible has so many layers of understanding and communication that people have spent their entire lives doing nothing but reading it and studying it and still find new wisdom and moral truths in it till the day they die.

So I hope you dont expect to find a final meaning in it.

The fact that I find the Bible to be confusing does not in any way suggest I do not understand it. For example, if I were to ask you how many times Peter denied Christ before the cock crowed for the first time, I might expect you to say three times because that is exactly what Matthew, Luke and John relate. However, the book of Mark makes it clear that the cock crowed for the first time after Peter's first denial and again after the third. I completely understand all four accounts and I find the apparent contradiction to be confusing.

Nonetheless, I thank you for your thoughtful and well-reasoned response. I am not a Bible-believing Christian, but I respect those who believe the Bible and live their lives in accordance with their beliefs, whatever they might be.

Have a great day.

If you are not a Bible believing CHRISTIAN, YOU ARE NOT A TRUE CHRISTIAN.

In my case you are correct. I do not accept the Bible as the complete, inspired and inerrant word of God and I am not a Christian by definition. However, I know of many Christians who who find the Bible to be less than perfect but they are Christians nonetheless. There are Christians who passionately disagree on what the Bible says, but they all call themselves Christians even though their various interpretations are obviously conflicting and therefore they cannot all be right.

As for me, I cannot accept that belief in a Book could ever be a requisite for salvation since belief is something that is beyond our control. Belief is not volitional; that is, we cannot will ourselves to believe one way or another. The idea that one can believe upon command is illogical and contrary to human nature. Rather, belief is an involuntary act; belief is our perspective created by our total life's experiences filtered through the prism of our individual preferences and prejudices. We are not so much masters of our beliefs as we are its slaves. Poet Shelly said it best:

"This is the pivot upon which all religions turn; they all assume that it is in our power to believe or not to believe, whereas the mind can only believe that which it thinks true. A human being can only be supposed accountable for those actions which are influenced by his will. But belief is utterly distinct from and unconnected with volition; it is the apprehension of the agreement or disagreement of the ideas that compose any proposition. Belief is a passion or involuntary operation of the mind, and, like other passions, its intensity is precisely proportionate to the degree of excitement. Volition is essential to merit or demerit. But the Christian religion attaches the highest possible degree of merit and demerit to that which is worthy of neither, and which is totally unconnected with the peculiar faculty of the mind whose presence is essential to their being" (Notes to Queen Mab).

I have a simple proposal for those who think they can will themselves to believe a certain way. Suppose that I offered you $10 million dollars if you could just believe that George Bush was the most brilliant and honest President in all of history. You merely had to pass a lie detector test to claim the prize. Could you do it? It is obvious that while some people might be able to claim the prize, most people would not. Most people could not believe, not even for $10 million dollars. I'm sure they would all believe if they could, but they cannot.

Therefore, if there is a judging God, we will not judged by what we believe but rather how we live our lives in accordance with that belief. I am convinced that is what a fair and just God would do. Whether there is a judging God bestowing rewards and inflicting punishments is an issue which is beyond the scope of the present response and which I will deal with in a subsequent thread..

I will give you the last word. This thread has been fun, but it's time for this old man to move on.

Have a good night.

 

[Avatar4321]

united christians in hate.......yea i will go with that

If you think that, then you aren't paying attention.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Showing the world the hypocrisy of Christianity?

 

[Avatar4321]

Showing the world the hypocrisy of Christianity?

Because we don't want to behead people?

 

[High_Gravity]

Showing the world the hypocrisy of Christianity?

How so?

 

[Gadawg73]

The Atlanta local Muslim community had a clothing drive and handed out clothes last week to anyone that needed it.

 

[Lokiate]

Showing the world the hypocrisy of Christianity?

Because we don't want to behead people?

You guys should have finished off Saladin. Richard I went soft.

 

[signelect]

Islam is the main problem with the world today.

Even if that were true, which it's not, any attempt to eradicate Islam would quickly supplant it and become the main problem with the world today. Language like that is an implicit advocacy of genocide.

What do you call what they want to do to us? Looks like one in the same to me.

 

[JStone]

Third, you're hatred toward muslims will only continue the conflict with no resolution.

The Bible says to love thy neighbor as thyself and to love the stranger and foreigner

Can you show us where the Quran says to love non-Muslims?

Unfortunately, there are verses in the Qur'an which call for the killing of non-Muslims; however, most Muslims ignore these particular verses and concentrate instead on these verses which encourage charity and forgiveness.

Ignoring the Quran constitutes apostasy. Why does the sharia, the Constitution of Islam, decree the forced conversion to Islam or submission to Islamic rule or mass murder of the kuffar, based on the Quran?

The Torah and Christian Bible say to love thy neighbor and to love the foreigner and the stranger. Can you cite where in the Quran it says to love non-Muslims?

 

[High_Gravity]

The Bible says to love thy neighbor as thyself and to love the stranger and foreigner

Can you show us where the Quran says to love non-Muslims?

Unfortunately, there are verses in the Qur'an which call for the killing of non-Muslims; however, most Muslims ignore these particular verses and concentrate instead on these verses which encourage charity and forgiveness.

Ignoring the Quran constitutes apostasy. Why does the sharia, the Constitution of Islam, decree the forced conversion to Islam or submission to Islamic rule or mass murder of the kuffar, based on the Quran?

The Torah and Christian Bible say to love thy neighbor and to love the foreigner and the stranger. Can you cite where in the Quran it says to love non-Muslims?

It does not say to love Non Muslims in the Quran.