Name an aethist Group that did this.

[José]

Originally posted by 82Marine89
What's the 'per capita' of those rates?

100 k.

Originally posted by 82Marine89
Can you provide a link for those numbers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate

 

[José]

Originally posted by GunnyL
Hardly. Pick a nation where all practice the same religion. The US has more religions than Starburst has flavors.

Gunny

Let me first clarify I was refuting the central idea of this thread, not your specific post on the beneficial effects of religious homogeneity in human societies. This is a different topic (though slightly related).

This entire thread is based on the premise that religious people tend to have a higher standard of ethical behaviour than agnostics, atheists or simply secular people (who ignore religion).

And, at first sight, this idea seems to make sense. As Dostoyevsky once said “if there is no God everything is permitted”.

But this highlights the basic difference between science and common sense, intuitions and rumors:

Science requires evidence. It doesn’t matter how powerful your intuitions are — if the evidence doesn’t support the intuitions, you cannot claim them as facts.

If you cannot prove a causal relationship between religiousness and ethical behaviour, your theory is not worth the neurons you spent formulating it and the saliva you wasted exposing it, no matter how much “sense” your theory makes.

Let’s not forget that the flat Earth idea and geocentrism also “made sense” in the past.

The fact that three utterly secularised european societies like Denmark, Norway and Finland with unbelievable rates of religious apathy happen to have the world’s lowest rates of fraud, murder, rape, theft and serious assault should be reason enough for this supposed causal relationship between religion and ethical behaviour to be discarded by any honest individual.

 

[82Marine89]

homicide rate

Mexico: 12.81

US: 5.5

Church attendance

México: 46%

US: 44%

Homicide rate

Denmark: 0.79

Norway: 0.78

Church attendance

Denmark: 5%

Norway: 5%

Seems like those irreligious vikings don’t need any priest or supernatural being telling them that human life is worth more than the price of a bullet...

Case closed...

Russia 19.80

What religion do they practice in Russia?

You might want to reopen that case of yours.

 

[Dr Grump]

Russia 19.80

What religion do they practice in Russia?

You might want to reopen that case of yours.

Russian Orthodox...

 

[José]

Originally posted by 82Marine89
Russia 19.80

What religion do they practice in Russia?

You might want to reopen that case of yours

Jesus Christ!!!

Gunny was dead fucking right when he wrote the following words of wisdom a few days ago:

“We all have gone through the unpleasant experience of being misunderstood and then having to waste countless pages trying to clarify what we said”.

Make an effort to understand my point first before trying to refute it, Marine!!!!

I’m not the one here saying there is any causual relationship between religiousness (OR LACK THEREOF) and ethical behaviour.

I’m not saying Danes and Norwegians commit less crime because of their secularism.

I’m just stating there is no causual connection between religiousness/secularism and ethical behaviour.

So the statistics regarding Russia only reinforce my point.

 

[Gunny]

Gunny

Let me first clarify I was refuting the central idea of this thread, not your specific post on the beneficial effects of religious homogeneity in human societies. This is a different topic (though slightly related).

This entire thread is based on the premise that religious people tend to have a higher standard of ethical behaviour than agnostics, atheists or simply secular people (who ignore religion).

And, at first sight, this idea seems to make sense. As Dostoyevsky once said “if there is no God everything is permitted”.

But this highlights the basic difference between science and common sense, intuitions and rumors:

Science requires evidence. It doesn’t matter how powerful your intuitions are — if the evidence doesn’t support the intuitions, you cannot claim them as facts.

If you cannot prove a causal relationship between religiousness and ethical behaviour, your theory is not worth the neurons you spent formulating it and the saliva you wasted exposing it, no matter how much “sense” your theory makes.

Let’s not forget that the flat Earth idea and geocentrism also “made sense” in the past.

The fact that three utterly secularised european societies like Denmark, Norway and Finland with unbelievable rates of religious apathy happen to have the world’s lowest rates of fraud, murder, rape, theft and serious assault should be reason enough for this supposed causal relationship between religion and ethical behaviour to be discarded by any honest individual.

And the origin of ethical conduct for Western society is ..... ? You can claim that religion is not required, and at this point in Western society, you could be right. We still have the rules; although, they are being eroded daily. The rules have been divorced from their origins by those who do not wish to inconvenience their desires with a higher authority than Man.

 

[Shogun]

And the origin of ethical conduct for Western society is ..... ? You can claim that religion is not required, and at this point in Western society, you could be right. We still have the rules; although, they are being eroded daily. The rules have been divorced from their origins by those who do not wish to inconvenience their desires with a higher authority than Man.

um, Hammurabi?

SNAP!

 

[Gunny]

um, Hammurabi?

SNAP!

The origin of such laws being?

A carving at the top of the stele portrays Hammurabi receiving the laws from the god Shamash, and the preface states that Hammurabi was chosen by the gods of his people to bring the laws to them. Parallels to this divine inspiration for laws can be seen in the laws given to Moses for the ancient Hebrews. Similar codes of law were created in several nearby civilizations, including the earlier neo-Sumerian example of Ur-Nammu's code, and the later Hittite code of laws.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammurabi

 

[Chips Rafferty]

The origin of such laws being?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammurabi

A carving at the top of the stele portrays Hammurabi receiving the laws from the god Shamash, and the preface states that Hammurabi was chosen by the gods of his people to bring the laws to them. Parallels to this divine inspiration for laws can be seen in the laws given to Moses for the ancient Hebrews. Similar codes of law were created in several nearby civilizations, including the earlier neo-Sumerian example of Ur-Nammu's code, and the later Hittite code of laws.[

Gee, I never knew "parallels" was another word for transparent plagiarism!

 

[Gunny]

Gee, I never knew "parallels" was another word for transparent plagiarism!

Well yeah because "parallels" is used when there is no conclusvie proof to support "plagiarism."

 

[Shogun]

um, certainly NOT jebus and the old testament if that's what you were going for...

hehehehe..


hmmmm... Romulus and Remus floated, abandoned, down a stream too.....

 

[AllieBaba]

Oh... I don't know, how much have those famous atheists Bill Gates and Warren Buffet donated to charity?

Atheists don't give en mass. They give individually because there isn't exactly a Church of the Infidel that they go to.

Ah...but Melinda Gates is a Catholic, and Bill's parents are Congregationalists (I'm not sure what that is, but there you have it). And he says she and he make decisions together, and he looks to his parents as his role models....

 

[CharlestonChad]

Just curious if anyone can name an aethist group that raised this kind of money for disaster relief.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071123/ap_on_re_us/church_donation

I donate to Christian organizations that I think help others, yet I'm an atheist...

Think before you post, for the sake of everyone on this forum.

 

[Shogun]

I donate to Christian organizations that I think help others, yet I'm an atheist...

Think before you post, for the sake of everyone on this forum.

that's a good observation. I do too.

I wonder how many christians can say the same thing about donating to organizations that don't advertise their common dogma on their sleeve..

 

[Chips Rafferty]

Well yeah because "parallels" is used when there is no conclusvie proof to support "plagiarism."

Well, seeing there is no conclusive proof of almost anything in The Wholly Babble and it contains astounding parallels to all the older religions of the empires around, you wouldn’t mind it being called The Wholly Parallels?

Or do you think the émigré Iraqi Protestants, who were run out of Ur on a rail for sacrilege, and their Christian descendants, somehow serendipitously stumbled upon the same self-regenerative Vegetation Gods of the civilisation they left?

Obviously, you do. Because you are a self-confessed unquestioning follower of these unqualified losers and Gypsy vagabonds, that patently plagiarised their prehistoric forefather’s gardening Gods to create Jewhoover.

You robotically believe it when Pastor Adder tells you that an uber schmuck named Moses, using God's most advanced navigational aids, still took 40 years to guide his people out of a desert the size of Central Park. That not one of millions of obviously imbecilic exilic Hebrews could find their way to De Promised Lan,’ without their blind guide - who undoubtedly didn’t know his arsehole from his elbow. And that your converted vegetation G-d sustained them by raining down Big Mac(cabee) Mannaburgers for forty years.

Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took away poor Gunman

 

[Gunny]

Well, seeing there is no conclusive proof of almost anything in The Wholly Babble and it contains astounding parallels to all the older religions of the empires around, you wouldn’t mind it being called The Wholly Parallels?

Or do you think the émigré Iraqi Protestants, who were run out of Ur on a rail for sacrilege, and their Christian descendants, somehow serendipitously stumbled upon the same self-regenerative Vegetation Gods of the civilisation they left?

Obviously, you do. Because you are a self-confessed unquestioning follower of these unqualified losers and Gypsy vagabonds, that patently plagiarised their prehistoric forefather’s gardening Gods to create Jewhoover.

You robotically believe it when Pastor Adder tells you that an uber schmuck named Moses, using God's most advanced navigational aids, still took 40 years to guide his people out of a desert the size of Central Park. That not one of millions of obviously imbecilic exilic Hebrews could find their way to De Promised Lan,’ without their blind guide - who undoubtedly didn’t know his arsehole from his elbow. And that your converted vegetation G-d sustained them by raining down Big Mac(cabee) Mannaburgers for forty years.

Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took away poor Gunman

Take more than you to take me anywhere dude. Nice little rant. Only problem is, I did not contend that there is conclusive proof to support Christianity.

However, there is plenty of factual evidence that supports events that take place in the Bible, so on that score, you would be wrong.

And WHAT is it YOU robotically believe? That anything about religion is to be ridiculed.

I'm not trying to sell you my beliefs. I'm not worried about what you think of them. But it seems you are so insecure in yours that you don't miss a bet when it comes to slamming Christians and/or Christianity. It's like you need a daily reminder of the "anti" to make it through.

Now if you can get past your brain-freeze the second religion is brought up, my contention is that Western morality is based on religion. Something that as of yet has not been disproven.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

Take more than you to take me anywhere dude. Nice little rant. Only problem is, I did not contend that there is conclusive proof to support Christianity.

However, there is plenty of factual evidence that supports events that take place in the Bible, so on that score, you would be wrong.

And WHAT is it YOU robotically believe? That anything about religion is to be ridiculed.

I'm not trying to sell you my beliefs. I'm not worried about what you think of them. But it seems you are so insecure in yours that you don't miss a bet when it comes to slamming Christians and/or Christianity. It's like you need a daily reminder of the "anti" to make it through.

Now if you can get past your brain-freeze the second religion is brought up, my contention is that Western morality is based on religion. Something that as of yet has not been disproven.

I did not contend that there is conclusive proof to support Christianity.

However, there is plenty of factual evidence that supports events that take place in the Bible, so on that score, you would be wrong.

Care to catalogue some independent ones?

There is also plenty of evidence that supports events that take place in the Bible in Jack Chick comics, porn mags, and in the drooling dialogue of Dimwit W Bush!

And WHAT is it YOU robotically believe? That anything about religion is to be ridiculed.

I thought my (non) beliefs would have been as plain as the nose on your face by now.

I maintain that since the immoral Christapitalist minority - that shapes pliable public opinion in BOTH our countries - calculatingly declared, to their own greedy ends, that Americans are the new Jews, they have used the racially supremacist building blocks of the Bible to instil a sickening sense of national superiority in Americans.

As a result, America has become the real Axis of Evil/Evil Empire and thus deserves to be continuously censured - if only to to keep its gargantuan national narcism under control.

Even the most bone evil regimes require a righteous sounding creed, that will justify the demonisation of their intended victim nations to the credulous cannon fodder that will do the killing.

If not Christinsanity, then what do YOU suggest it is that instigated and sustains America’s Nazi-like sense of “Manifest Destiny?”

What national canon underpins America’s perceived divine right to impose its manifestly ersatz decency on everyone on earth.

Where does the average American get the idea that he alone has permission to play world policeman. To have condescendingly walked rough shod over others and to have raped, ravaged, and ransacked their countries, at will, ever since 1607? (Hint!, hint!)

If Americans don’t get their odious, overbearing, born-to-rule mind-set from demonstrably satanic Christinsanity, then they must be congenitally evil.

Jesus H Christ, Gunny, you should be grateful for me giving y'all an excuse for your nation’s religious bigotry and the habitual belligerence and imperial ambitions it brings about.

 

[Gunny]

Care to catalogue some independent ones?

There is also plenty of evidence that supports events that take place in the Bible in Jack Chick comics, porn mags, and in the drooling dialogue of Dimwit W Bush!



I thought my (non) beliefs would have been as plain as the nose on your face by now.

I maintain that since the immoral Christapitalist minority - that shapes pliable public opinion in BOTH our countries - calculatingly declared, to their own greedy ends, that Americans are the new Jews, they have used the racially supremacist building blocks of the Bible to instil a sickening sense of national superiority in Americans.

As a result, America has become the real Axis of Evil/Evil Empire and thus deserves to be continuously censured - if only to to keep its gargantuan national narcism under control.

Even the most bone evil regimes require a righteous sounding creed, that will justify the demonisation of their intended victim nations to the credulous cannon fodder that will do the killing.

If not Christinsanity, then what do YOU suggest it is that instigated and sustains America’s Nazi-like sense of “Manifest Destiny?”

What national canon underpins America’s perceived divine right to impose its manifestly ersatz decency on everyone on earth.

Where does the average American get the idea that he alone has permission to play world policeman. To have condescendingly walked rough shod over others and to have raped, ravaged, and ransacked their countries, at will, ever since 1607? (Hint!, hint!)

If Americans don’t get their odious, overbearing, born-to-rule mind-set from demonstrably satanic Christinsanity, then they must be congenitally evil.

Jesus H Christ, Gunny, you should be grateful for me giving y'all an excuse for your nation’s religious bigotry and the habitual belligerence and imperial ambitions it brings about.

Just because YOU are lost in the sauce, don't expect everyone else to follow you down the drain.

Your religious bigotry is every bit the equal of Osama bin Laden's, so who are YOU pointing fingers at? You really need to get that clock on your shoulders repaired. It's missing a beat.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

Just because YOU are lost in the sauce, don't expect everyone else to follow you down the drain.

Your religious bigotry is every bit the equal of Osama bin Laden's, so who are YOU pointing fingers at? You really need to get that clock on your shoulders repaired. It's missing a beat.

Your religious bigotry is every bit the equal of Osama bin Laden's

For every reactionary, there is an equal and opposite reactionary.

 

[Gunny]

For every reactionary, there is an equal and opposite reactionary.

Yeah, but you're obsessed.