Naked Facts from the Bible

[Joz]

...... I was just asking you to tell us how you know they were not married or that they did not speak some kind of vows before God.

I'm not sure it's entirely important. We go through all the hoo-haa of a wedding for our own benefit.
A couple that comes humbly before God and repeats their vows in a private manner, is just as married as the couple who spend $200,000 to get married.

We repeat vows because WE NEED to HEAR them; it lends sacredness and validity of our actions to our finite minds.

In the Garden God was instructing Adam on how everything was to go; then gave him full run. The Bible says that when God presented Eve to Adam, He explained what their roles were & blessed them. That is no more than what is done by any officiant, today.

 

[dmp]

Wasn't that 'before' the 'apple'? Before sin, thus before those kind of rules? Not that they're bad, but I mean we are talking about before sickness, death, and all that.

Before they sinned? Yeah - they were together before they sinned. Of course I can't PROVE they had sex before that point, but I'm very sure they did. Who wouldn't? In that setting?

Where did I say that they did? I was just asking you to tell us how you know they were not married or that they did not speak some kind of vows before God.

Nobody 'knows' - id est, nobody was THERE, nor was that activity mentioned in the bible. I know from fairly-sound reason people have to LEARN languages. Languages are created. Sure - God may have created them with the ability to speak 'a' language, we know they had reason, AND Eve communicated with the snake.

But think about this for a minute - WHY would they stand and recite vows? Making vows in that way has very little to do with marriage. People could just as easily 'marry' while laying in a hammock. One turns to the other and says 'I want you to be with me until death. Just you and me. Makin' babies.'
The other says 'Okay.'

That's it. That's their committment and the start of their bond of marriage, assuming they live up to their word. The notion that Adam and Eve would stand in front of the animals and plants and utter Vows in a formal decree seems far-fetched. Try to put yourself in their...uh..shoes? figuratively.

 

[dmp]

I'm not sure it's entirely important. We go through all the hoo-haa of a wedding for our own benefit.
A couple that comes humbly before God and repeats their vows in a private manner, is just as married as the couple who spend $200,000 to get married.

We repeat vows because WE NEED to HEAR them; it lends sacredness and validity of our actions to our finite minds.

In the Garden God was instructing Adam on how everything was to go; then gave him full run. The Bible says that when God presented Eve to Adam, He explained what their roles were & blessed them. That is no more than what is done by any officiant, today.

You're right on target, Joz - as per my last reply.

 

[Nienna]

Nobody 'knows' - id est, nobody was THERE, nor was that activity mentioned in the bible. I know from fairly-sound reason people have to LEARN languages. Languages are created. Sure - God may have created them with the ability to speak 'a' language, we know they had reason, AND Eve communicated with the snake.

But think about this for a minute - WHY would they stand and recite vows? Making vows in that way has very little to do with marriage. People could just as easily 'marry' while laying in a hammock. One turns to the other and says 'I want you to be with me until death. Just you and me. Makin' babies.'
The other says 'Okay.'

That's it. That's their committment and the start of their bond of marriage, assuming they live up to their word. The notion that Adam and Eve would stand in front of the animals and plants and utter Vows in a formal decree seems far-fetched. Try to put yourself in their...uh..shoes? figuratively.

Eve didn't have much to say, but Adam cried out his acceptance of the gift/committment... "This is now bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh." He said it to God, not to plants & animals. This was the beginning of their marriage, the point at which they "were married." Darling.

 

[dmp]

Eve didn't have much to say, but Adam cried out his acceptance of the gift/committment... "This is now bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh." He said it to God, not to plants & animals. This was the beginning of their marriage, the point at which they "were married." Darling.

Yeah. He said pretty much this:

"whoa...cool! God MADE this??? for ME??? Awesome!!! I can't wait to teach her to shave her legs and armpits!"

My love, Adam acknowledging God's gift is not the same as "They recited Vows".

They saw eachother...and GOT...IT....ON!!!

 

[Nienna]

Yeah. He said pretty much this:

"whoa...cool! God MADE this??? for ME??? Awesome!!! I can't wait to teach her to shave her legs and armpits!"

My love, Adam acknowledging God's gift is not the same as "They recited Vows".

They saw eachother...and GOT...IT....ON!!!

My Dearest One... I agree that they did not recite vows or have a ceremony. But there was a point of acceptance and acknowledgement of the relationship. At that point, they were married. Beloved.

 

[dmp]

My Dearest One... I agree that they did not recite vows or have a ceremony. But there was a point of acceptance and acknowledgement of the relationship. At that point, they were married. Beloved.

You are like a lily among thorns - but you are arguing my point. Marriage happens - marriage is - a simple and deep commitment. Regardless - or absent - of ceremony, recitals and such.

 

[Joz]

...They saw eachother...and GOT...IT....ON!!!

You think God explained the 'facts of life' to them or do you think they just knew? They were perfect beings with perfect thoughts, perfect actions. The perfect union.

No,"gee, I wonder what he's thinking?" No, "I wonder if he's going to call?" No, "I wished she'd shut up so I can concentrate."

 

[dmp]

You think God explained the 'facts of life' to them or do you think they just knew? They were perfect beings with perfect thoughts, perfect actions. The perfect union.

I doubt it'd take much essplaynin'. I mean, Adam had been around awhile - he'd seen the animals doin' it, I'd guess. Twood be pretty easy to figure out what goes where, no?

I bet Eve was HOT.

 

[Avatar4321]

I COULD.... but I won't.

Didnt think you would. but hey it was worth a try wasnt it?

 

[Avatar4321]

Before they sinned? Yeah - they were together before they sinned. Of course I can't PROVE they had sex before that point, but I'm very sure they did. Who wouldn't? In that setting?



Nobody 'knows' - id est, nobody was THERE, nor was that activity mentioned in the bible. I know from fairly-sound reason people have to LEARN languages. Languages are created. Sure - God may have created them with the ability to speak 'a' language, we know they had reason, AND Eve communicated with the snake.

But think about this for a minute - WHY would they stand and recite vows? Making vows in that way has very little to do with marriage. People could just as easily 'marry' while laying in a hammock. One turns to the other and says 'I want you to be with me until death. Just you and me. Makin' babies.'
The other says 'Okay.'

That's it. That's their committment and the start of their bond of marriage, assuming they live up to their word. The notion that Adam and Eve would stand in front of the animals and plants and utter Vows in a formal decree seems far-fetched. Try to put yourself in their...uh..shoes? figuratively.

Well if you have no clue what sex is you probably wouldnt have sex even in that setting. But if they did I dont think id have a problem with that. And I doubt im going to ask my first parents when they started having sex when i meet them:

However, I have no doubt that the statements Adam made when Eve was presented to Him were vows. My only question is why anyone would expect them to make vows till death prior to death entering the world.

 

[dmp]

Well if you have no clue what sex is you probably wouldnt have sex even in that setting. But if they did I dont think id have a problem with that. And I doubt im going to ask my first parents when they started having sex when i meet them:

Did I suggest they didn't know what sex was? I bet Adam saw her, proclaimed her 'good', and started having sex with her.

 

[5stringJeff]

How do you know they did? It's warm and fuzzy and uncomplicated to think of Adam and Eve as having gotten married. How pissed off would SOME people be to think they just 'lived in sin' (common-law, etc) for their whole lives?

The point that matters is this: Eve was created for Adam and they chose their life together. Yeah, they probably didn't have much options for alternatives, but they chose one-another and that was that. There was no courting. There was no engagement period. In fact, as far as vows go, I bet they had very little language skills to create and recite said vows.

Did God create in them basic sentence structure? Moral Code?

Who knows? I bet Jeff has an idea, though.

Well, God obviously ordained their marriage in some fashion. Obviously, there was pre-marital counseling, no church, no ornate vows about forsaking all others, no honeymoon in Vegas, but there was something done or said in order for God to bless their union. Remember, God doesn't approve of sex outside of marriage; therefore, God would not have commanded them to procreate if He hadn't have put them into a marriage together.

As to the language that Adam and Eve knew, who knows? God obviously created them with enough language to communicate with Him.

 

[Nienna]

You are like a lily among thorns - but you are arguing my point. Marriage happens - marriage is - a simple and deep commitment. Regardless - or absent - of ceremony, recitals and such.

You stand strong and tall above other men... I'm proud to be able to agree with you.

 

[Nienna]

Didnt think you would. but hey it was worth a try wasnt it?

Can't blame a guy for trying.

 

[Nienna]

Did I suggest they didn't know what sex was? I bet Adam saw her, proclaimed her 'good', and started having sex with her.

I bet they did it pretty quickly afterward, too.

 

[dmp]

Remember, God doesn't approve of sex outside of marriage; therefore, God would not have commanded them to procreate if He hadn't have put them into a marriage together.

Like Adam when he saw his bride - you Nailed it. they didn't 'get married'...they joined together by their actions and feelings and decisions. They didn't have a license, or a minister - God said to adam "Check this out!". Adam said to God "Awesome...can I keep her?" God said "Surely - she's made of you; as your helpmate and junk." Adam replied "Cool..."

We don't know if they spoke vows - it honestly wouldn't make SENSE for them to exchange vows. Vows are given only because people fail. If nobody every failed (there was no precident for them), Vows would become uneccessary. We assume Eve liked Adam, or submitted to Adam. We don't know if they loved eachother in a sense we'd recognize. We don't know if they physically spoke words and language - or what those may have been. We don't know if Adam had sex with anyone else for the rest of his life. Same goes for Eve. We assume that's the case - but not too much later guys were taking multiple wives.

Lots of unknowns - things we think we know tend to be assumptions passed down in the church.

 

[dmp]

I bet they did it pretty quickly afterward, too.

And liked it.

$10 says afterwards, she made a sandwich for him.

 

[Nienna]

And liked it.

$10 says afterwards, she made a sandwich for him.

Sandwiches are pretty important to you, aren't they?

 

[Avatar4321]

Can't blame a guy for trying.

Even us good guys like what we see